Thursday February 16, 2012

Obama savors victory as Congress approves stimulus

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  • 0

    adaydream

    I wish we didn't have to do this stimulus plan, but since we do I'm glad that Obama/democrats are in office.

    Couldn't take any more republican tax break plans. This one will affect me. < :-)

  • 0

    zurcronium

    For the first time in over eight years a government program that helps people other than those that make $1 million a year or higher or who have bankrupted their companies.

  • 0

    some14some

    Just the begining of peace and prosperity under Obama admn.

  • 0

    hereandthere

    What victory? None of the senators even knows what's in the "stimulus" bill...

    well at least now they can claim they voted for the bill before they read it...

  • 0

    Sarge

    "This one will affect me"

    I'm gonna get a freebie!

    zurcronium at 7:54 AM - Sure, just make up stuff and post it! Sheesh!

    What a boondoogle. The Democrats and three Republicans own it.

  • 0

    VOR

    yeah a victory for special interest groups, lobbyist, cronies and family members of democratic congressmen.

    The losers, the American taxpayer and future generations of Americans.

    As the details come out and the effects are known, this will go down as the biggest larceny in the history of mankind.

    The fleecing of America continues.

  • 0

    WhiteHawk

    I wonder if Obama will equally savor the accountability if/when (when) this massive spending exercise fails to stimulate the private sector economy, or if he'll do like FDR, who waited for historians to rewrite the history of the New Deal.

  • 0

    zurcronium

    If Republicans could feel shame there would have been a series of contrite public apologies by now for the fiasco of non-governing that typified the Bush administration. My pension, other people's pensions, our homes, jobs and economy are in chaos because of Republicans. Young Americans are dying in Iraq because of Republicans. The world is a more dangerous place because of Republicans. Until President Obama was sworn in America was hated because of Republicans.

    Moderator: The URL for the article will suffice, thanks.

  • 0

    Molenir

    Now these backward people are denying that the mess we're in is their fault.

    Zirc, from today onwards, Obama owns this recession. His stimulus, or should I say "porkulus" bill is going to have the effect of prolonging the recession. And with the additional costs coming next year, just as a recovery should be happening, well all I can say is, don't expect a recovery any time soon. Obama's own people admit it would be better to have done nothing then to pass this egg. The Obama depression starts today!

  • 0

    VOR

    zurc, i bet that felt good to get off your chest, as emotionally confused as it came across. The truth in the matter is the Democrats are no better or probably worse then the Republicans could ever be. At least when Bush was the head of state there was at least some sucess reaching across the aisle.

    Obama and the democrats have just pulled off the biggest heist in American history. If you don't know yet, the democrats now own the economy. Soon enough they will be sticking their grubby paws deep into every Americans pocket to pay for all this social spending. Can't wait to see what these birdbrains do with national health care, social security and medicare if they ever get around to it. It may behoove them to keep putting it off while you and other fools give them a blank check to spend money on whatever they want in the name of stimulus.

    The fleecing of America continues...but at an accelerated pace.

  • 0

    wuzzademcrat

    "Sunlight is the greatest disinfectent... No more secrecy... And, when there's a bill that ends up on my desk as president, you the public will have 5 days to look online and find out what's in it before I sign it."

    Barack Obama

    Hope and Change Tour, June 22, 2007

  • 0

    GJDailleult

    If it wasn't for the fact that I live in a country that has foolishly built its entire economy around exporting stuff to the USA, I would be able to get a lot more enjoyment from watching this train wreck. All that this stimulus "debate" has shown is that the Republicans are interested only in playing pin the blame on the donkey, seem completely clueless about what is actually going on, and are generally useless. Obama and the Democrats should just drop all the touchy-feely bipartisan crap, and sink or swim on their own.

  • 0

    SushiSake3

    Heh, the Republicans put forward their own "stimulus bill," but after coming fresh off 8 years of wrecking the U.S. economy, thankfully no one listened.

  • 0

    SushiSake3

    Zurconium - "My pension, other people's pensions, our homes, jobs and economy are in chaos because of Republicans. Young Americans are dying in Iraq because of Republicans. The world is a more dangerous place because of Republicans. Until President Obama was sworn in America was hated because of Republicans."

    Too true.

    And yet, heh, the Republicans STILL think they deserve a voice in Congress.

    How do you spell 'F-A-T C-H-A-N-C-E'?

  • 0

    VOR

    Obama and the Democrats should just drop all the touchy-feely bipartisan crap, and sink or swim on their own.

    Earth to DJ, thats exactly what the Democrats have done and when the economy really tanks, they own it lock, stock and barrel.

    If Pelosi and Reid followed Obama's lead, perhaps there would have been some compromise and a better outcome.

  • 0

    SushiSake3

    It seems like the Republicans are STILL against greening their economy. A heavy hangover from the Bush years of constant denial about climate change, no doubt.

    This bill allocated billions to retrobuild govt. buildings to reduce running costs and CO2 emissions.

    Not to mention extra billions to actually - get a load of this Republican people - fund more construction in the USA, not Iraq.

    But the Republicans are against even this provision.

    After 8 years of putting the wrecking ball through their own economy and siphoning off taxpayers' money to build stuff in Iraq, you've got to wonder - who do the Republicans actually support??

    Because it sure as heck isn't America or Americans.

  • 0

    SushiSake3

    I'm looking forward to reading some breathless rebuttals of my above post from Republicans whose support trashed their country and sparked a global recession.

  • 0

    VOR

    hey sushi, tell me how many jobs spending 30 million on a mouse is going to create. this is supposed to be a stimulus bill.

  • 0

    FreeEnergy

    There could be no better investment in America than to invest in America becoming energy independent! We need to utilize everything in out power to reduce our dependence on foreign oil including using our own natural resources. Create cheap clean energy, new badly needed green jobs, and reduce our dependence on foreign oil. The high cost of fuel this past year seriously damaged our economy and society. The cost of fuel effects every facet of consumer goods from production to shipping costs. After a brief reprieve gas is inching back up. OPEC will continue to cut production until they achieve their desired 80-100. per barrel. If all gasoline cars, trucks, and SUV's instead had plug-in electric drive trains, the amount of electricity needed to replace gasoline is about equal to the estimated wind energy potential of the state of North Dakota.

  • 0

    SushiSake3

    VOR - "Earth to DJ, thats exactly what the Democrats have done and when the economy really tanks, they own it lock, stock and barrel."

    LOL!! The Dems INHERITED a recession from the previous Republican administration.

    That was a nice try to deflect blame from where it is due, but it didn't work. :-)

  • 0

    SushiSake3

    VOR - "hey sushi, tell me how many jobs spending 30 million on a mouse is going to create. this is supposed to be a stimulus bill."

    Another deflection? And so soon after your last one??

    Wow, you're really on a roll today. :-)

  • 0

    VOR

    sushi, whats your point, Bush inherited a recession from Clinton and you didn't see him or any Republican making excuses. Man up for a change.

  • 0

    SushiSake3

    FrreEnergy, good and interesting post. Obama has known this all along.

    Pity about the Republicans...they still seem quite happy to continue living in the past. :-)

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    It's funny to watch the few remaining bush-lovers on here desperately try to say that any problems in the future are the fault of Obama, despite knowing FULL WELL that all of this was bush's creation. Excuse me, boys and girls, but there would be ZERO need for this stimulus package if not for bush destroying the economy and putting your country in debt for at least the next decade. That is on his, and your, shoulders. Obama is trying to fix things.

    I can understand, though, how you DESPERATELY want to get rid of the burden of shouldering all the blame of bush's failed terms and quickly throw it on Obama so that you can try to regroup from the absolute SLAUGHTER of your party in November.

    What's going to be even funnier to watch is you guys scramble to be unhappy when the stimulus starts paying off, and watch you once again try to somehow blame all of your fears on Obama while pretending his successes are somehow failures.

    Keep on making me laugh, kiddies; you're at the very least good for entertainment (I realize you don't intend it, but there you go!).

    "Not to mention extra billions to actually - get a load of this Republican people - fund more construction in the USA, not Iraq."

    Shhhh! Sushi, they don't want to be proven wrong directly!

  • 0

    SushiSake3

    VOR - "sushi, whats your point, Bush inherited a recession from Clinton."

    ROFL! So, now you're calling a Clinton's $236 billion surplus a 'recession'???

    Wow, to people like you, Up really is the new Down, Black is the new White, etc.

    Thanks for the belly laugh.....need to wipe my eyes.. :-)

  • 0

    SushiSake3

    SmithinJapan - "Excuse me, boys and girls, but there would be ZERO need for this stimulus package if not for bush destroying the economy and putting your country in debt for at least the next decade. That is on his, and your, shoulders. Obama is trying to fix things."

    Hammer. Nail. Direct hit.

    VOR, you would boost your credibility by taking smith's words to heart.

  • 0

    VOR

    Another deflection? And so soon after your last one??

    sushi, are you in denial again? this $30m mouse thing is in the stimulus package. these are the things Republicans are finding objectionable. There are some good things in the package like making government buildings more energy efficient. I can see the short and long term benefits spending money on that type of focused intiative. But back to the mouse thing, how many jobs is that going to create?

  • 0

    SushiSake3

    I can't defend the mouse thing.

    What I do find objectionable, on the other hand, is almost a full house of Republicans voting against this bill that DOES contain many job-creating initiatives, especially after America was given a Republican-crafted - now - global recession.

  • 0

    SushiSake3

    After wrecking the U.S. economy, it now seems the best the Republicans can do is - get this - BLOCK any serious attempts to address the massive problems they themselves caused.

    I will ask this again - just whose side are the Republicans on??

  • 0

    VOR

    sushi: you can't even acknowledge that Bush inherited a recession from Clinton.

    Bush did add 4 trillion of debt and thats the primary reason why the Republicans lost the white house. That 4 trillion is part of the 10 trillion of the acknowledged debt the country had accrued up until Obama taking office. Obama just added another trillion but that will likely go up to three trillion financing the banking institutions. This doesn't even take into account the billions or trillions to implement national health care, fix social security and medicare, so when Obama and his cast of tax cheats get done with the first term, he is projected to increase the national debt by at least 5, maybe 6. Got a problem with that?

  • 0

    VOR

    After wrecking the U.S. economy, it now seems the best the Republicans can do is - get this - BLOCK any serious attempts to address the massive problems they themselves caused.

    False. The Democrats had a chance to introduce legislation to right the economy during the bush years and in particulary as the majority in both the house and the senate the last two year but submitted nothing. In fact democrats submitted legislation that added to the out of control spending so blaming this entire mess on one party and George Bush is childish.

    Republicans are not blocking anything. The Democrats have the numbers to do whatever they like. The best the Republicans can do is submit alternative legislation and hope the Democrats give it fair consideration. If the Democrats choose to ignore or shut out the minority, the Republicans have no choice but to oppose bad legislation.

    Let me give you a little civics lesson. Up until the Democrats took over of the executive and legislative branches the nation functioned as a Republic. In a Republic the majority does not brow beat the minority. Obama failed in my opinion in providing the leadership as the head of the Democratic party to get Reid and Pelosi to work with Republican leadership on crafting this bill. If they had, we'd still be a Republic and we would have been able to move forward united. Pelosi and Reid have poisoned the political landscape for the forseeable future all under the eyes of the new president.

    How this gets fixed really depends on Obama's leadership not only as the head of the majority but as the President of all Americans. If the majority chooses to brow beat the minority over the next two years things will only get worse. If they chose to play fair, theres a chance the national divide can begin to heal.

  • 0

    VOR

    VOR, you would boost your credibility by taking smith's words to heart.

    what makes you think i care about boosting my credibility with people that are not credible?

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    VOR: "what makes you think i care about boosting my credibility with people that are not credible?"

    This from a guy that demands Obama do the same for him! hahaha... nice hypocrisy. Fortunately, it's you who are not credible and Obama who is, and since he's got all the power, that's all that matters.

  • 0

    SuperLib

    smithinjapan: despite knowing FULL WELL that all of this was bush's creation.

    Is that a statement that you're going to stick to or is that one of the emotionally charged statements that you'll have to back away from at some point in the future?

    Apart from you, daydream, zurc, Sushi, and yabits, I don't really see too many people saying this is entirely the fault of Bush. You guys are a very small minority despite Sushi's repetitive posts to increase the overall count. Come off of the fringe and mingle with the moderates for a while. I think you'll be better off in the end.

  • 0

    wuzzademcrat

    Obama - trade war with Canada?

    Bring it on!

    from the theChronicleHerald.ca

    Sat. Feb 14 - 5:50 AM "WASHINGTON (AP) — The US$787-billion stimulus bill approved by the U.S. House of Representatives contains protectionist measures that Canada and other U.S. trading partners have warned could spark a trade war."

  • 0

    Molenir

    After wrecking the U.S. economy, it now seems the best the Republicans can do is - get this - BLOCK any serious attempts to address the massive problems they themselves caused.

    Nope, Republicans made a serious attempt to address the problems. They offered a myriad of alternatives, ones that would have worked. Instead the Democrats chose to pass something that will hurt the economy rather then help it. Something that will end up costing jobs in the long term rather then creating them. Ah but as you say, at least they're protecting Pelosi's pet mouse!

    I'll say it again, Dems had a chance to pass a real stimulus. They chose not to. Instead they chose to pass a pork filled spending bill that does very little to stimulate the economy, and more to pad the accounts of Dems favorite programs.

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    VOR: "smith; you are from canada. i don't really care what your opinion is when it comes to topics about your benevolent neighbor."

    So get off this Japan site then, if you only care about statements on the US when they are what you want to hear. I mean, seriously... I guy coming onto a Japanese news site and saying, "I don't care what non-Americans have to say" is foolish to say the least. What's more, every single time from here on in that you post on any topic not immediately related to the US I'm going to post your above comment, as you have heretofore forfeited -- at least if you stick by what you say in said comment -- your right to have an opinion on other matters.

    Of course, I don't expect you to follow that, and of course in truth we all know you are entitled to your opinion on any matters whatsoever, as we all are. Saying only Americans can post or have a logical and worthwhile opinion on American issues (again, on a Japanese news site) is just ludicrous, and proves that you simply cannot accept opinions outside of your own, nor provide any rational comebacks for points you cannot prove.

    But hey, for a guy who thinks that bush inherited a deficit from Clinton, that's not surprising.

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    This is about the stimulus package, and as Sushi and a number of others have pointed out, first and foremost Zurconium, you guys cannot accept that Obama has passed this and scored a major victory for you and your country. Instead, you guys are trying to quickly pass the buck off from all the past 8 years failures onto Obama as though bush did nothing but good for the economy while Obama is the devil and has plunged you into recession.

    Once again, since I need remind you, the economy tanked as it is on bush's watch, and even in bush's waning days he gave BILLIONS to banks who cannot account for their monies. This stimulus package would NOT AT ALL be necessary if not for bush and the 8 years of failure he put you all through. You guys cannot even address that fact for shame.

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    Molenir: "Nope, Republicans made a serious attempt to address the problems. They offered a myriad of alternatives, ones that would have worked."

    You mean like with bush giving BILLIONS to banks that tried to hire foreign employees, and otherwise couldn't account for where the money went? At least Obama's stimulus plan, necessary because of bush's failures, spells out where the money is going.

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    wuzzademcrat: "The US$787-billion stimulus bill approved by the U.S. House of Representatives contains protectionist measures that Canada and other U.S. trading partners have warned could spark a trade war."

    Aside from being angry that Canadians no more and have better opinions of your country than you do, I find it interesting that you actually laugh about the destruction of your nature in some petty attempt to lash out at superior debaters. This is going to affect Japan very badly -- the nation in where you reside (or if not, you at least come to a Japan site a lot to post a bunch of malarky) -- and it's going to hurt your nation save for the few companies who make major profits at your expense.

  • 0

    wuzzademcrat

    Rasmussen reported last week, before the Dems allowed Obama to renege on campaign promises made to has willfully naive base and ram through the largest collection of bribes, pork and paybacks in US history, that 62 percent of Americans want the stimulus to have more tax cuts.

    Even CBS admitted their polls reveal the same numbers.

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publiccontent/politics/obamaadministration/february2009/62wantstimulusplantohavemoretaxcutsless_spending

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    I think the headline just automatically makes the heads of the Republicans explode. They simply don't want to see 'Obama' and 'success' in the same title of years of 'bush' and 'failure'. The contrast between the presidents is just too much for them to bear.

    Good job, Obama. You've proven that the GOP is nothing but a defunct lot of losers. If they could have prevented the bill from passing it might have helped solidify them and make the recent attempt by Gregg to flare things up seem justified, but as with the elections they can do naught but fail. What a useless group of fools... it's great that the Dems control the White House and both houses, and I'm looking forward to seeing them reverse and combat even more of bush's major mistakes.

  • 0

    adaydream

    This will always be george bush's recession.

    It's Barack Obama's Stimulus Plan. < :-)

  • 0

    VOR

    Yeah, must be pretty tiring for you to make all this crap up (Clinton recession, etc.).

    smith, see what i mean about your lack of credibility regarding matters of the United States. You are so blinded by your own bias you can't even bring yourself to go back and confirm Bush inherited a recession when he took over in 2001. I think you also leave out the impact 911 had on the US economically. Disagree with the war, but it isn't Bushes war, it was voted on by congress and won unanimous support by Republican and Democrats alike. The multitude of natural disasters also contributed to government borrowing as well as numerous social programs sponsered by the democrats that bush went along with. The bank bailout was done at the insistency of the Democrats. So your blaming bush and the republicans without taking many variables into consideration is a very immature point of view. Anything interesting ever happen in Canada?

  • 0

    zurcronium

    if I wanted to listen to rush limbaugh, I would tune in. the wingers on this post just repeat his storyline. And he has stated clearly he wants Obama to fail, so that the USA can have another depression.

    Its must more of the same. The republican were failures in power and they are the same, or worse, out of power. Americans are sick of republicans, sick of failure.

    Not so long ago bush, mccain and that idiot from texas gramm who would be sec. of the treasury right now if mccain had won, all claimed that the economy was just fine. Delusional they all are. Called americans whiners for losing their jobs.

  • 0

    telecasterplayer

    The guy's getting more done in his first month than some presidents have done in a year. That's true whether you agree or disagree with his agenda.

  • 0

    VOR

    Here's Obama's words; "I expect to be judged by the results".

    The Democrats own the government. The Democrats own the so called stimulus bill. The Democrats own the results. If this really is a solid piece of legislation, the Democrats have nothing to worry about. If its not a focused stimulus plan, the Democrats will pay for it during the mid term elections less than two years from now.

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    VOR: "I think you also leave out the impact 911 had on the US economically. Disagree with the war, but it isn't Bushes war, it was voted on by congress and won unanimous support by Republican and Democrats alike."

    WHAT?! So now you guys are saying 'bush freed Iraq', but 'It's not his war'? Wow... I suppose now you guys are all going to start blaming Obama for the Iraq war, too! I know you're often delusional, VOR, but give it a rest! The Iraq war was started by GWB, my friend, and rushed through both houses because of bad intelligence he helped feed to the public. Those are facts.

    So far today you have turned the recession into Obama's fault, and are now saying that bush didn't start the Iraq war, and saying bush's economy is the result of random weather patterns and things out of his control... even though... oh yeah!... it wasn't his economy, it was all Clinton's recession! Yeah... you're a shining example of 'credibility', my friend.

    "if you want to contribute to the conversation, I suggest you make an honest attempt at presenting a valid argument."

    Best heed your own advice before doling it out to others who don't need it.

    adaydream: "This will always be george bush's recession. It's Barack Obama's Stimulus Plan. < :-)"

    Bingo! But don't tell this to VOR... evidently Clinton's surplus has suddenly become a massive deficit that poor little bush inherited and Obama has intensified. bush was nothing but an innocent victim in the world who was president when some conflicts in the ME spontaneously erupted and he has to take the fall; he has also had his name sullied by that evil god guy throwing storms at him and not allowing him to react properly... and DAMN that guy upstairs for interrupting a perfectly good My Pet Goat story time! Once again, according to VOR nothing is bush's fault, and the world's ills are all because of the 4 week presidency of Obama.

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    telecasterplayer: "The guy's getting more done in his first month than some presidents have done in a year. That's true whether you agree or disagree with his agenda."

    Very, very true. Thanks for pointing that out.

  • 0

    VOR

    Obama and the democrats own the economy and they will be judged on the results of this spending free for all.

    The fleecing of America continues...at an accelerated pace.

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    VOR: "i walk away knowing i won this battle."

    Telling yourself something repeatedly in order to 'know' it is not winning anything when you don't actually 'win' anything. What's more, there's no contest here and there's nothing to 'win' or 'lose', for that matter. If you want to talk about making logical points and frame it into some sort of contest, though, then you lost hands down when you started posting.

    "The fleecing of America continues...at an accelerated pace."

    Sorry, that ended with bush and co. Need I remind you AGAIN that it was bush who pushed through the first part of the stimulus but did not insist on people detailing how they would use it? Your beloved ex-pres. fleeced the nation for eight years, and Obama is finally putting a stop to it. THAT's fact; that you don't like the facts only speaks to your sense of politics and desire for unhappiness.

    Once again as adaydream so rightly posted: this is and will always be bush's recession -- it started with him and didn't begin 4 weeks ago as soon as Obama took office. The stimulus package that just passed victoriously belongs to Obama, making the losers those who tried to stop it. Once again, those like VOR who think that the world's trouble started four weeks ago are in total denial. Most people thought the denial of such people would stop with the election, since it was the kind of thing that got the Republicans utterly crushed, but somehow they remain completely oblivious to the outright failures of bush.

    VOR: again, I can't stress enough how much this is true for you, particularly in light of the fact that now you are trying to say bush is not responsible for the Iraq war in the step of the 'denial' phase. Move on to the 'acceptance' phase already... the Republican funeral is over, and Obama is helping you to come to grips.

  • 0

    sailwind

    Weird,

    I can't find a single word about Bush in the article.

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    sailwind: "I can't find a single word about Bush in the article."

    That's a good thing. But thinking that the crash of the economy that occurred on his dime is irrelevant to conversation is the same kind of folly that negates many of your otherwise decent posts. This whole crash didn't suddenly occur when Obama was voted in, much as you guys might like to wish it were so.

    This is like in the recent Iraq posts when some people say bush, who started the war (despite VOR thinking he did not), is irrelevant to the discussions.

    Sorry, amigo, but bush is very much to blame (not completely, but pretty near 100%) to blame for the fact that a stimulus package is needed, he is perfectly relevant to the topic.

  • 0

    wuzzademcrat

    smithinjapan:"But thinking that the crash of the economy that occurred on his dime is irrelevant..."

    'On his [someone's] dime' means the person you describe provides the financing for a given enterprise.

    What you wrote makes no sense.

    "This whole crash didn't suddenly occur when Obama was voted in, much as you guys might like to wish it were so."

    Oil prices played a large part, which is one reason I wanted a candidate who wants to exploit the 8 billion barrels we in America hold in the Green River Basin's shale reserves, not to mention the crude in Alaska and off our coasts.

    The Dem creations of Fannie and Freddie are also a major factor - so big and so opaque in operation that their Dem managers got away with convincing the few entrusted with oversight that their accounting error of 1 billion dollars was a genuine mistake .

    Adult Americans of both parties are feeling the pain, adult Americans now realize there is no one single culprit.

  • 0

    wuzzademcrat

    Barack Obama, on the campaign trail:

    "I have done more to take on lobbyists than any other candidate in this race. I don't take a dime of their money, and when I am president, they won't find a job in my White House."

    Congressional Offices Don't Have the Stimulus Bill, Lobbyists Do February 12, 2009 By Paul Bedard, Washington Whispers

    "We're receiving E-mails from Capitol Hill staffers expressing frustration that they can't get a copy of the stimulus bill agreed to last night at a price of $789 billion. What's more, staffers are complaining about who does have a copy: K Street lobbyists. E-mails one key Democratic staffer: "K Street has the bill, or chunks of it, already, and the congressional offices don't. "

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    wuzzademcrat: Well, I've got to hand it to you for providing a relatively decent post. It makes it a lot more pleasant to debate the issues.

    By saying it was 'on his dime', which refers to something occurring while the person in question (whose dime it is) is paying. Since we are talking about the stimulus plan and major money, I felt it was an apt twist on 'on his watch', since he was doling out the money for this and that (including Iraq). However, I should have been more specific and saying it was happening on his WATCH while he as using the tax-payer's dime instead of being too abstract. Ah well.

    "Adult Americans of both parties are feeling the pain, adult Americans now realize there is no one single culprit."

    Now we're getting somewhere. So long as you guys don't pretend this is all on Obama now (ie. the economy is his fault) then we can have a logical debate.

  • 0

    SushiSake3

    VOR - "You are so blinded by your own bias you can't even bring yourself to go back and confirm Bush inherited a recession when he took over in 2001."

    You mean the $236 billion **surplus **Bush inherited from Clinton? That one?

    VOR - "Bush did add 4 trillion of debt"

    $4 trillion in 2000 to $10+ trillion now is **$6 trillion **extra. You are only $2 TRILLION out in your figures. :-)

    VOR - "The best the Republicans can do is submit alternative legislation and hope the Democrats give it fair consideration."

    You are right. It's the best the Republicans can do because through their destructive policies over the last 8 years that gave away billions of dollars to foreigners and the uber rich, they are now no longer in power and in no way, shape, or form deserve to have a voice in Congress.

    VOR - "Obama just added another trillion but that will likely go up to three trillion financing the banking institutions."

    When Obama took the reins of power, the U.S. government was paying $450 billion a year in debt servicing (interest) costs on loaned money.

    But you still blame President Obama for president Bush's financial delinquincy. Ok....

    Molenair - "I'll say it again, Dems had a chance to pass a real stimulus. They chose not to. Instead they chose to pass a pork filled spending bill."

    ROFL!! This, after 8 long years of the Republican party rubber stamping EVERY single pork-laden spending bill bush put in fornt of them.

    President was bang on when he said during last year's campaign that the Republicans just don't get it.

    It just gets funnier :-)

  • 0

    SushiSake3

    VOR - "Disagree with the war, but it isn't Bushes war"

    Not only were you a cool $2 TRILLION (33%) out in your estimate of how much U.S. debt has increased under Bush, but now you blatantly try to distort history by saying the war in Iraq that bush started "isn't Bushes war."

    I think the majority of us on JT just aren't that stupid to buy any of that....

    Moderator: All readers back on topic please. The subject is Obama's economic stimulus bill, not Bush or the Iraq war, which are not relevant to this discussion.

  • 0

    wuzzademcrat

    Lobbyists got to see the 1 trillion dollar porkulus before our elected lawmakers did.

    Beyond belief.

  • 0

    SushiSake3

    Honestly, the outright denial and twisting of history by the Republicans on this board is beyond the ridiculous.

    You would think that after getting their hides cleanly whumped in two straight elections would teach them something.

    Clearly it hasn't.

    I just get bored listening to them.

    The Republicans just have no ideas. They tried 'tax cuts.' Who gained the most? You're right - the uber rich 1%.

    Will the Republicans mention that?

    No.

    The Republicans burnt through an eye-watering $6 TRILLION under bush, and then have the gall to start attacking President Obama for reckless spending after 8 long and costly years of um...reckless spending under Republicans' watch, reckless spending that triggered the requirement for this stimulus package - that the Republicans themselves are now doing their utmost to block.

    That's ridiculous, but then it just gets funnier when posters like VOR start trying to blame President Obama for this Republican-spurred global recession, and then attempt to NOT blame bush for the Iraq war that was ...um...started by bush.

    Honestly, unlike VOR, I do have faith that the majority of posters on Japan Today are not idiotic enough to believe tripe like that.

  • 0

    wuzzademcrat

    Sushi sounds real confident that the porkulus will work. Confident enough to post here his investment strategies ? If you are such an expert on the US economy how about you tell us how the markets will react? How much have you personally invested?

    In light of stuff like this

    The Republicans just have no ideas. They tried 'tax cuts.' Who gained the most? You're right - the uber rich 1%

    I would love to watch the fool and his money...

    .

  • 0

    SushiSake3

    wuzzademcrat - "Lobbyists got to see the 1 trillion dollar porkulus before our elected lawmakers did."

    No mention of why this stimulus package was needed in the first place.

    Smart, but just not smart enough. :-)

  • 0

    globleone

    obama is a hypocrite

  • 0

    wuzzademcrat

    "No mention of why this stimulus package was needed in the first place."

    Obviously not where sushisake gets news and commentary from.

    It was "needed" because paying off your crony pals and your backers is the Chicago Way.

    Only about one-tenth of the so-called stimulus will be spent this year. Maybe you, foreign expert on the US economy, can explain how that is going to help create jobs now.

    Taking Apart the Stimulus Package

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2009/02/01/GR2009020100154.html

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    Sushi: "No mention of why this stimulus package was needed in the first place."

    No kidding. I have pointed that out no less than four times on this site; VOR just out and out stopped posting because he has no answer, and wuzza can only keep trying to deflect. In about a week's time I predict some of the Right-wingers on here are actually going to convince themselves that it was bush, not Clinton, who had a massive surplus and that it was Obama who in a mere 5 weeks (by that time) sent the whole economy into a recession. You point out that it was Obama's predecessor, and they'll try to deflect, deflect, deflect.

    They just can't take it that Obama won this round, as he did the election, and their prayers that he fail went unanswered, thus rendering them even more useless and incompetent than before.... the Republicans, I mean, of course.

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    wuzza: "Maybe you, foreign expert on the US economy, can explain how that is going to help create jobs now."

    Clearly foreign experts are needed to help assess and provide you guys with info on the mistakes of the past eight years and how not to repeat them; YOU guys clearly can't see it yourself (I mean you in particular, as well as VOR, etc.).

    But hey, anytime you want to come back to this Japan news site and talk about foreign input, feel free to thank us.

  • 0

    Sarge

    "Only about one-tenth of the so-called stimulus will be spent this year"

    So, they're going to waste only %$787 million this year. Whew, that's a relief!

  • 0

    Sarge

    Yeah, $787 million.

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    wuzza: "And as has been repeatedly pointed out there is not a whole lot of stimulus in the Obama package. Day-am, you are thick."

    Thick is a guy who cannot answer the question -- why is the stimulus needed in the first place?

    Or perhaps it's not so much thickness as complete denial and lack of credibility on your part. But, go on ahead and keep on deflecting -- errr... TRYING to deflect.

  • 0

    wuzzademcrat

    The stimulus was needed because the unions, the lawyers, the special interest groups, the enviro-nazis, the flacks, the lobbyists all demand payback.

    It was also needed because the Dems know their success formula is to create more dependence on government.

    Why else would they have snuck in all the provisions that will roll back Clinton's very laudable welfare reforms of '96?

    Why else would they have rushed the bill through, without letting the public see it - as Obama had previously pledged? What are they trying to hide?

    A few examples - 8 billion to build a Mag-Lev train from LA to Vegas? It'll never happen. Harry Reid is paying off his lawyer friends in Nevada and the environmental groups, who between them will fight for the 8 billion, in the name of "protecting" the environment. No train will ever materialize.

    300 million for environmentally friendly golf carts? http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/senatestimulusgolf_cart/2009/02/09/179762.html

    These people are shameless.

  • 0

    globleone

    Statistic are just a reference,math is a tool,these things wont influnce any thing.

  • 0

    globleone

    It's not horrible when people are shameless,it's horrible when people became mean.

  • 0

    globleone

    golf carts? really mean

  • 0

    Sarge

    This just in - China is not happy with President Obama's stimulus plan. They especially don't like the "Buy American" bit.

  • 0

    SushiSake3

    wuzzademcrat - "Only about one-tenth of the so-called stimulus will be spent this year."

    "The House would pour about $525 billion - 64% of the total package - into the economy within 19 months through spending cuts adn tax breaks."

    • that's straight from the link you posted but seemed to have completely forgotton to read. :-)

  • 0

    SushiSake3

    wuzzademcrat - "It [the stimulus package] was "needed" because paying off your crony pals and your backers is the Chicago Way."

    So, now some dodgy blokes in Chicago are responsible for the U.S. recession?

    That's more than a 'gas tax holiday', that's a complete 'brain-out-to-lunch' statement.

    Next you'll be saying something like the stimulus package is needed because you think the Democrats want to make more people dependant on the government.

  • 0

    SushiSake3

    ROFL!!!! I just read your 7.48pm post and you did!! :-))) !!

  • 0

    Asara

    This is another major progress in any social and economic spectrum. Obama san is doing fine job! :D

  • 0

    SushiSake3

    3 Very Disturbing Facts I Learnt From Republicans Today.

    1/ The $236 billion surplus President Clinton left for president bush is now - according to some Republicans - technically a 'recession.'

    **2/ **George W. Bush did not start the Iraq War.

    **3/ **The Democratic Party's stimulus package is needed because some rather dishonest people in Chicago started the U.S. recession.

    LOL! Thank God these people are in the political wilderness where they belong.

  • 0

    SushiSake3

    wuzzademcrat - "These people are shameless."

    That, from a Republican.

    I'm just about speechless. :-)

  • 0

    SushiSake3

    I think we finished off these Republican-types for today.

    It's always too easy. :-)

  • 0

    wuzzademcrat

    Obama opposed welfare reform in 1996.

    And now the porkulus will roll back all the very laudable work Clinton did in this area.

    More people on welfare. More people dependent on the gov't.

    Just what "liberals" want.

    Because it consolidates their control over peoples' lives.

    No wonder Obama and the Pelosi Congress - worst in US history, as polls clearly show - literally shut Republicans out of debate on the bill, sent copies to lobbyists before lawmakers, and had to resort to lying to the public about transparency on this, the most massive spending ever undertaken.

  • 0

    WhiteHawk

    zurcronium:

    if I wanted to listen to rush limbaugh, I would tune in. the wingers on this post just repeat his storyline.

    That opinion would've carried more weight had you not plagiarized Shaeffer's Huffington Post column with your 10:42 post. How... shameless.

    I notice that none of the defenders of this ridiculously huge spending plan have yet answered my original post on this topic. Perhaps they're too busy reading the bill? Or too busy looking for liberal columnists to copy/paste opinions from?

    Oh well, back to the JT forums I go...

  • 0

    Betzee

    Gotta love it!

    Michael Steele, a {Republican and] former Maryland lieutenant governor [whose] argument against the stimulus package is that “in the history of mankind” no “federal, state or local” government has ever “created one job.” As it happens, among the millions of jobs created by the government are the federal investigators now pursuing Steele for alleged financial improprieties in his failed 2006 Senate campaign.

    How, pray tell, has he never heard of the Department of Homeland Security which created tons of new government jobs? Get serious.

  • 0

    Betzee

    Michael Steele, quoted above, was recently selected to serve as head of the RNC to turn around the fortunes of the GOP after the thumpin' it got in the last two elections. Good luck with that.....

  • 0

    sailwind

    How, pray tell, has he never heard of the Department of Homeland Security which created tons of new government jobs? Get serious.

    Really........Who pays their salaries? Taxpayers, you have a funny idea about job creation. Get serious

  • 0

    Betzee

    "In the first four years after F.D.R. took over from Hoover, the already decimated ranks of Republicans in Congress fell from 36 to 16 in the Senate and from 117 to 88 in the House."

    With people like Steele heading the party, I don't think the GOP should expect much better this time around. If the government has never created a single job, was his stint as lieutenant governor a mirage?

  • 0

    sailwind

    With people like Steele heading the party.

    Agreed the GOP should never have this African American heading the party. Glad to see a good liberal such as yourself on-board with that.

    Time for the GOP to get back to the whitebread roots and dump this guy as head of the party.

  • 0

    Badsey

    Anytime Gov is able to control the money and handouts -they are very happy!

    Where do I rattle my can?

  • 0

    Betzee

    The GOP did a huge PR blitz to turn public opinion against the stimulus bill, emphasizing the cost. Yet in an economy where the private sector is reeling and shedding jobs rather than hiring, Americans know the government has to spend money to create jobs. Plus, the Republican Party lacks the moral capital to lecture on the evils of deficits after GWB blew through five trillion. Gotta have been a bit of pork in that, perhaps the whole hog since nobody can even say where it all went.

  • 0

    adaydream

    You know that unless Obama and the democrats just up and and allowed the republican to have their way, the republicans would be crying.

    The republicans didn't hear the call frtom the nation. They called for a change and the republicans again failed to hear the screaking from the masses. All they heard was the corporations calling for the same old tax breaks.

    I wonder if the republicans intend to fight the will of the people all the way through the first of Obama's terms? < :-)

  • 0

    Molenir

    I wonder if the republicans intend to fight the will of the people all the way through the first of Obama's terms? < :-)

    Yes yes, I hear you loud and clear. Republicans aren't people their will doesn't count. Thats really what you're saying right?

    Wait a sec... you were on here earlier today bragging about how only a tenth of the stimulus is going to be spent this year and how it's not a 'stimulus', but now suddenly it's the 'most massive spending ever undertaken'? well... aside from the Iraq war, which Sushi pointed out, and the MASSIVE amount of lies that bush needed to undertake it.

    How much was spent on the Iraq war? Hmm about the same amount? Yeah, I remember Bush going to congress to ask for another 70 billion to fund the war. You guys remember that too? Oh wait, the spending bill this time around is 700 billion. Guess they added an extra zero. Iraq war 6 years 700 Billion = Pork Barrel Spending Bill 700 Billion. Yep, I think we can compare em.

  • 0

    Betzee

    OK, what if Obama's stimulus plan doesn't work? Does anyone think the millions laid off are going to be impressed by Republican breast beating and promises of tax cuts if the GOP is voted back into office? The unemployed don't pay taxes, incidentally.

    By some estimates, economic contraction may leave 50 million people around the world unemployed by year's end.

  • 0

    Badsey

    at 10% unemployment China alone may (easily) have 50M out of work.

  • 0

    Betzee

    Calculating the unemployment rate is a tricky business because there's lots of people who are not collecting a paycheck by choice. Students, house wives, retirees, etc. It's targeted to encompass only those actively seeking work who can't or haven't found it.

    China poses its own problems because there's disguised unemployment in the countryside where there's more labor than work. Some of those people sought jobs in export factories where orders have fallen off dramatically. If they've been let go, they will be counted in the 50 million. There's also a lot of former state-owned factory workers who long ago gave up trying to find new jobs once the factories were closed. Instead they spend their days trying to find ways to get by in the new economy with old skills.

    In recent months we've seen labor protests in places such as Latvia, Chile, Greece, Bulgaria and Iceland. Not to mention strikes in countries where there are still unionized workers including India.

  • 0

    Asara

    republicans spent trillions of dollars on defense contractors and black water type of losers.

  • 0

    OhioDonna

    Whoopee do! He has yet to impress me.

  • 0

    OhioDonna

    I would call that much of a victory. That's a whole lot of money. I am a little nervous about this.

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