U.S. slides into government shutdown

I say Obama is appeasing big business and the elitist political class. Big business gets another year to lay off employees or switch them to part time. Congress and their staff get a 75% subsidy on their premiums even if they make $200;000 a year or more. It's all about Obama's ego.

It is not a shutdown, it is a farce. Today the government announced the Panda Cam will be turned off because it takes personnel to move a FIXED camera and the minute amount of electricity the camera uses is outside of the budget. Does this mean the pandas will starve. The government will not stop spending billions of dollars protecting countries like Japan with high-tech Ospreys or bailing people out of countries like NK. "It all depends upon whose ox is being gored." It's all about the members of Congress - re-elect them, and suffer the consequences.

Wolf, can you explain the subsidy issue to us? ;)

It is a farce. And the shutdowns will be silly and evident instead of meaningful and needed. Heavens knows how many of those programs could vanish with absolutely no impact.

We do need to tighten the belt a bit (quite a lot actually) and at the current rate of spending the economy cannot sustain.

Regarding defense spending. In a perfect world I am all in. Realistic world China and Russia would like to see that but not me.

This is not the first time US government shut down, no big deal, just wait or the stock to drop before jumping in, got to love it.

"Obamacare... forces all Americans to buy health insurance"

Is that constitutional?

Serrano, not sure but is certainly not what the founding fathers had in mind. Yet another erosion of freedom. When will they stop?

SerranoOct. 01, 2013 - 09:50AM JST

"Obamacare... forces all Americans to buy health insurance"

Is that constitutional?

Already tried and passed it. It is constitutional.

hostage my a--! its not like obama won by a landslide and the fact that the people gave the republican's control of the house is a proof of that the don't entirely trust him. democrats could just as easily avoid the shut down by compromising. all obama cares about is his legacy. without obamacare, it is practically nothing.

Stop paying the politicians until they come to some agreement.

A shutdown would also have a painful personal impact on workers affected—leaving them to dip into savings or delay mortgage payments, monthly car loan bills and other spending.

Boo-efffing-hoo.

Government workers get HUGE salaries, benefits and pensions that most working class folks can only dream off.

The problem is not only Obamacare. The problem is healthcare socialism and all the other welfare/warfare absurdities, something that all statists, both Republican and Democrat, ardently believe in.

But it is fun to watch it play out, if for no other reason than to see the deep anxiety the possible shutdown produces within statists. We all know how it ends though: The shutdown won’t last long and the welfare-warfare state will, unfortunately, soon be back in full force.

Let it shut down, let it fall down. Inevitably it will collapse under it's own weight.

Stop paying the politicians until they come to some agreement.

That's the smartest comment here.

globalwatcherSep. 29, 2013 - 07:19AM JST

Obamacare has been passed, signed into law, and upheld by the Supreme Court.

I did not attach a website of US Supreme Court decision on Affordable Care Act to my post listed above. It is constitutional just in case you have not read it.

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/11-393c3a2.pdf

Boo-efffing-hoo.

Government workers get HUGE salaries, benefits and pensions that most working class folks can only dream off.

Yeah. I'm sure those park rangers are just rolling in it.

First, after the original law was steamrolled through the 2009-2010 Congress, "You have to pass it to find out what's in it." according to Speaker Pelosi, problems with the law started to appear. So, the Administration gave special deals to special people exempting them from parts of it while telling the rest that they have to conform, or else with the power of the IRS to enforce it.

The public reaction was to change the Congress and trim the Democrat majority in the Senate with a clear message: Get RID of this mess! So, the House passed multiple bills (over three dozen, so far) to do just that. Now, we are in a situation where the House (according to the Constitution) sends budget bills to the Senate. The Senate must have its way, so they are willing to shut down the government (somewhat, not totally) and send amended bills back to the House.

If this reminds one of a ping pong game, you're right! So, break out a cool one, sit back, and enjoy the spectacle while I deal with my furlough.....

... the fact that the people gave the republican's control of the house is a proof of that the don't entirely trust him.

Fds, as I mentioned yesterday, Democratic House candidates earned 49.15 percent of the popular vote, while Republicans earned only 48.03 percent in the last election. In a real democracy, the Democrats would control both chambers of Congress.

Also, in a real democracy, the Senate bill would be put on the floor of the House to see how many support and how many oppose it. It would pass with minority Republican support - but that is not the way Boehner wants to play it (at the moment - he will eventually succumb, of course).

It is clear that a majority of Americans do not want this shut down over the ACA and that a majority of representatives do not, either. The question of who is responsible for this shut down is crystal clear: Boehner and the Tea Party faction of the GOP, who won't allow democracy to function.

Well, now the Government is officially shut down.

Stgrange bass, I am still at work.

Right, Matthew - You're just not getting paid (unless you're military).

Apologies to any Japanese tourist who will be unable to visit the National parks and Smithsonians tomorrow. Hope that you will find other places to visit and enjoy in the meantime. smh.

Jindal: GOP must stop being 'stupid party'

http://news.yahoo.com/jindal-gop-must-stop-being-stupid-party-014220693--election.html

America is now hijacked by American Jihad Tea Party.

Here's an interesting statistic, courtesy of the New Republic: opposition to defunding Obamacare rises from 44-38 to 59-19 when it’s tied to a shutdown threat.

Imagine is Obama gave a list of demands in order to fund the government.

negative laguna, overseas civilians directly supporting military that are in an excepted status are getting paid still. That is directly out of the bills the president signed.

Obama accused Republicans of holding America at ransom with their “extreme” political demands, while his opponents struck back at his party’s supposed arrogance.

Not rolling over for thuggery is what Republicans call arrogance. No, no intellectually lazy false equivalence between the two parties to be had here. Republicans own this shutdown and whatever impact it's going to have on the economy.. Thanks for that.

The grandest of ironies is that healthcare.gov and the exchanges are now up and running.

And the beat goes on.

Triumvere, the even funnier thing is that the website is not available to process applications because it is overloaded at the moment I just went there to try it out.

Oh, Federal Shutdown, where is thy sting?

Why should a government shutdown send down the stock market? Answer: Federal government spending provides more than 30% of the income in the country. Put another way, Federal government spending plus state and local government spending provide over 50% of the income in America (GDP).

America really has no economy -- the government IS the economy. Or, only half the people in the country produce something for a living. The other half consume the taxes the others pay, plus all the money the federal government borrows into existence.

Of course, the profligate government will never pay all that debt. They cannot, just as they cannot stop spending, so the debt WILL be repudiated, either by default or by hyperinflation.

But the truth of that obvious conclusion runs so contrary to accepted wisdom --"what everybody knows" -- that only very few can hear and accept it. People believe what they want to believe.

Poor Jean. He doesn't know if he should be embarrassed or proud.

Obama, heralding the first government shutdown since 1996, told U.S. troops in a video that they deserved better from Congress, and promised to work to get the government reopened soon.

No, they don't deserve better. The American people have elected and reelected the current class of political whores who consume all and answer to no one. The approval rate of the congress and senate have hovered below 20% for the past several years, yet more than 90% have been reelected.

Americans made their choice, or simply stood by while others made it for them. They fully deserve to suffer the consequences.

Unfortunately, since America is the world's largest economy, the perfidy or carelessness of the American voter affects us all, and we don't deserve that.

Actually, Jean, total government spending in percent GDP is currently 40% and falling. Look at the chart at the upper right.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_20th_century_chart.html

Its too bad the shutdown is not an actual shutdown. Seriously.

America's war spending is obscene and unnecessary. But it will be the last thing to be cut. America outspends every country in the world on war potential and war too, including China and Russia, by many times.

The entire U.S. government and military deal needs to be scrapped and rebuilt from the ground up.

" Actually, Jean, total government spending in percent GDP is currently 40% and falling. Look at the chart at the upper right."

Actually, Laguna, those numbers on the chart you linked are only as accurate as the data from which they are crunched, much like the unemployment figure. Pardon me if I don't put a whole lot of faith in those figures.

Actually, Jean, total government spending in percent GDP is currently 40% and falling. Look at the chart at the upper right.

The way the the US government computes "facts" and "figures", there is really no way to tell how much they are spending, or even what the "real" amountof debt is. Reductions in the deficit are usually reductions in previously forecast increases, which means in reality there is no net reduction.

America's war spending is obscene and unnecessary.

It may be obscene and unecessary, but America's war spending is insignificant when compared to it's welfare spending. Even in the military heyday of the cold war, HHS spending was more than defense spending. Right now more than 1/3 of Americans are on welfare, while only 1/4 are working full-time.

So because the Republicans don't want everyone to contribute to a countrywide healthcare system they throw the toys out of the pram and effectively shut America down?

Laguna, GDP itself is a fanciful abstraction well manipulated for central planners' purposes, and so carries no real weight.

For a clearer understanding :

http://mises.org/daily/770

Okay, the democrats offered NO concessions. The republicans offer a few. Who owns this? What team refused to play?

And Obama owns over $7 trillion in debt! Is that a fair analogy? Is the economy better in 2013 than 2008? That's $7,000,000,000,000 plus. Well spent?

The suicideal spending needs to stop! I have children and really feel sorry for their generation inheriting a colossal mess.

Why the Republicans own it Mark. Just like Gingrich owned it when he subverted the democratic process the last time there was a Democrat in the Whitehouse.

Clearly none of you Republicans understand the debt you're about to default on was accumulated over several decades by all parties, and nobody likes someone who doesn't pay their debts.

Enjoy the shutdown and the blowback, you radicals have worked hard for it...

Okay, the democrats offered NO concessions. The republicans offer a few. Who owns this? What team refused to play?

No question about it. The Republicans, GOP, the lemmings with the suicide vests clearly own this. The proposed narrative that this is the result of some sort of Democrat intransigence in the face of reasonable Republican efforts to come to a compromise outcome is just ridiculous. If you buy this, you haven't been paying attention.

this is a truly a farce and not a republican one, several proposals went forward including ones that were endorsed by republicans and democrats but were stopped by the senate. President Obama had spoken - no bills would move forward unless he could increase the debt even higher and unless Obamacare could be funded. Even with parts that are known to cut jobs because the law was written incorrectly.

but essential services still get paid, it is just a shame that the democrats won't meet to negotiate a budget= but then the president does not wish that to happen

there have been 17 U.S. government shutdowns since 1976. This is simply Kabuki Theatre

It's a gamble, but I love Ted Cruz and Rand Paul, even though it is almost unlikely that the House can defund Obamacare at least they can make a stand and lay down like a bunch of ***! Liberals are saying this is a suicidal move for the GOP, I am not so sure of that, this grandstand might work actually in their favor.

And Obama owns over $7 trillion in debt! Is that a fair analogy? Is the economy better in 2013 than 2008? That's $7,000,000,000,000 plus. Well spent?

The suicideal spending needs to stop! I have children and really feel sorry for their generation inheriting a colossal mess.

That's the problem, and the numbers just keep getting bigger and anyone thinkin that with this monstrosity of healthcare won't add to the deficit bog it down or if you can't see the potential of people engaging in massive fraud, you are out of your mind. This thing,hopefully will sink like the Titanic.

http://www.rollcall.com/news/hill_staff_feels_strain_as_health_insurance_becomes_weapon-228015-1.html

Well at least the Congressional staffers are subject to these exchange policies and are apparently at their wits end figuring out how quickly to jump into civilian life as a last resort. The insularity is truly mind boggling. It explains at lot. These people who are supposed to be on the front lines of policy must live in such an well protected bubble that they believe the White House propaganda about how great the economy is doing right now and that they have been illegally singled out the only ones exempt from not being able to keep their plan as Obama promised.

I'm guessing this month could be my last SSDI check. I have enough money saved to live on for about a year, so I'm hoping the politicians get their heads out of their collective asses before my savings dry up.

MarkG: Okay, the democrats offered NO concessions. The republicans offer a few. Who owns this? What team refused to play?

You are being blamed. Everyone said you would be blamed, even people in your own party tried to explain that, but you went forward with it anyway. So embrace the idiocy and be blissful.

Jean: But the truth of that obvious conclusion runs so contrary to accepted wisdom --"what everybody knows" -- that only very few can hear and accept it.

Well you didn't really come out and say that you are a special person who can hear and accept the "real" reality so how the heck did we know we were supposed to follow you until now?

Serrano:

"Obamacare... forces all Americans to buy health insurance"

Is that constitutional?"

globalwatcher:

"Already tried and passed it. It is constitutional."

Looks like it's time for another constitutional amendment.

Jeff, " I'm guessing this month could be my last SSDI check."

You don't have to worry about that. Only non-essential spending is suspended. That doesn't include mandated entitlements though certain fearmongers may claim so. However, I wouldn't recommend resting on your laurels when TSHTF, it's gonna be messy. Have an escape hatch. As they say, "Better a year too early than a day too late."

These people who are supposed to be on the front lines of policy must live in such an well protected bubble that they believe the White House propaganda about how great the economy is doing right now and that they have been illegally singled out the only ones exempt from not being able to keep their plan as Obama promised.

Your convoluted sentence reflects brilliantly your understanding of the situation. Clarification was provided in previous posts, and there are also websites which do not provide Kool Aide exclusively. Make use of them.

Laguna, GDP itself is a fanciful abstraction well manipulated for central planners' purposes, and so carries no real weight.

I've noticed this disturbing trend among disaffected Republicans which can only be termed nihilism. Here is the invariable pattern: Provide a doomsday scenario while acting as a disinterested observer; object to support for opposing arguments as being the result of some conspiracy; immediately add a link to some kooky rightwing Website which proves against your disinterest.

Really, the idea that statistics provided by the OMB - itself staffed by non-partisan number-crunchers and subject to the vagaries of frequent regime change - would even be able to fabricate statistics requires a rather stunning disbelief in objective reality. Best, though, when that is followed up with a link to a site whose political objectives are quite transparent. It does save one from thinking, I suppose.

Superlib posted,

" Jean: But the truth of that obvious conclusion runs so contrary to accepted wisdom --"what everybody knows" -- that only very few can hear and accept it. Well you didn't really come out and say that you are a special person who can hear and accept the "real" reality so how the heck did we know we were supposed to follow you until now?"

What on Earth are you rambling about? Did you really miss the context?

Just to clarify the conclusion stated,

" the profligate government will never pay all that debt. They cannot, just as they cannot stop spending, so the debt WILL be repudiated, either by default or by hyperinflation."

It's not some mystic revelation, as you might think, but a plain truth only truly blind cannot or refuse to acknowledge.

The gov is broke! Bankrupt!

The gov is broke! Bankrupt!

Thanks for adding to the theme, Jean! Another aspect of this type is their eschatology. No judicious mix of revenue increases and spending cuts coupled with efficiency savings will save us - No! To the bunkers, my friends! After all, this is not the 1990s, when Clinton was president. Buy gold and hunker down!

I remember Bacon's essay on truth, and this verse in particular: ..."but no pleasure is comparable to the standing upon the vantage ground of truth (a hill not to be commanded, and where the air is always clear and serene), and to see the errors, and wanderings, and mists, and tempests, in the vale below; so always that this prospect be with pity, and not with swelling, or pride."

"What is the truth." asked Plato, and would not stay for an answer. The truth is that most people have narrow and small minds. Most people believe what they see and read in the news, or in "Change we can believe in". They want to believe in whatever they care to believe in, however illogical it may be. Being as they are, they can be easily fooled and manipulated.

The truth is that 1% rule the other 99%. They always have. They have existed in Elizabeth's England, Washingon's America, Stalin's Russia, Mao's China, or Abe's Japan. From time to time this 1% has been put to the firing squad, or the guillotine, but it has immediately been replaced by a new top 1%.

The truth is that religion, ideology, and political parties are all methods by which this top 1% control the rest.

The truth is that the natural selection as described by Darwin applies to human beings as clearly as it does to all other animals, and the existence of a top 1% proves his theory.

The truth is that the top 1% will say and do whatever it has to do to stay in power, no matter what the cost, be it a government shutdown, or spending the world's economies into collapse.

The final truth is that this is the way it will always be.

Only workers deemed essential will be at their desks from Tuesday onwards...

I guess that means Obama and all of congress can go home.

Too bad they keep getting their paychecks and outlandish perks. After all, they are part of the 1%, aren't they?

the idea that statistics provided by the OMB - itself staffed by non-partisan number-crunchers and subject to the vagaries of frequent regime change - would even be able to fabricate statistics requires a rather stunning disbelief in objective reality...

There are lies, da**ed lies, and statistics. For example, "core inflation," the number typically touted by the government, doesn't include food and fuel because those prices are "too volatile" to have meaning, apparently. But two things that every family needs to survive on a daily basis are food and fuel. So when the government says that inflation is low but I know that it costs a lot more to buy food and fuel than it did, when my health care costs are going through the roof - what statistic is that reported in?

You can spin statistics any way you care too. The numbers don't lie but what they mean can be misrepresented.

Yes the UNITED SNAKES IS FINALLY BROKE this is what happens when you have a government who don't care about their own citizens but give free health care to thousands of illegals and pass the buck on to hard working Americans When Obama was elected he told the people a change was going to come. We see that change a country full of illegals and people not speaking the language. This is what OBAMA don't care means!!!

@Kaimycahl

If the US is broke than Japan is absolutely in gutter!

US DEBT to GDP ratio is about 90% Japan's DEBT to GDP ratio is an astonishing 250%

Lizz: These people who are supposed to be on the front lines of policy must live in such an well protected bubble that they believe the White House propaganda about how great the economy is doing right now and that they have been illegally singled out the only ones exempt from not being able to keep their plan as Obama promised.

The situation the staffers face is a Republican invention. Charles Grassley (R-Iowa) decided it would be good if Congressmen and their staffs were forced to enter the exchanges as "regular Americans" would. Sounds good, but since they get their health care through their employer (the US government) it created an awkward situation where staffers were required under law to ditch their employer insurance and go into the exchanges to get new policies.

It's like telling someone who works for Ford Motor that he has to relinquish his healthcare benefits and instead call Aetna direct for a policy. No one would ever do that since it would obviously be more expensive for the worker, but with politics in play that's exactly what's happening to Congressional staffers.

Someone finally woke up and realized that the staffers were about to get hammered so they created a workaround which was to give them cash subsidies equal to their former benefits, and then they could go to the exchanges and apply that to their new policies. That's where we are now.

We're now left with a crackpot Republican idea that is being used against Obama. They are describing it as an "exemption" which is the exact opposite of reality, or they are saying that Obama is talking care of the political elite by giving them free cash. I'm sure you've heard it before. Standard BS.

Imagine that you are from outside The U.S. and you saved your money and your vacation days for this ONE AND ONLY trip to The U.S. Capital.

22 Hour flight, land, check in to your Hotel and then the next day you call your Tour Agency all excited about the Washington Monent(s) Tour Package ONLY to find out THAT DAY that your Tour Package has been canceled due to the Monuments and Museum closures due to THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN!!

This is why Washington sucks! And you know what? Those BUMS in Comgress are still GETTING PAID!

People, don't ever waste your hard earned money and vacation time EVER planning a trip to D.C.

Besides, I haven't heard of any Government Shutdowns in Japan and as it is; Tokyo is open for Tours and Business :))

@ bannedacctsam

There is an old saying " Birds of a feather flock together" now the chickens have come home to roost in this case they are indeed pi$$ poor broke!! Also I would take Japan debt now than to see what the future of this country would be with all the losers we have sucking up entitlements!! GRATIS thats the only word they know by the way means FREE

And the Republicans slide to a new low in the polls.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/30/us-usa-fiscal-poll-idUSBRE98T0J720130930

And who says democracy doesn't work?

The Dems. control senate should accept the bill from the House which attempt to treat all Americans equally without privilege exempt class such as the Congress. Note that Obama has made numerous exemptions already. It is not about government shut down or public interest, rather a political opportunity for power grab down the road. All Americans should have access to health care without arms twisting and readjustment of ACA. A recent study at one Ivy school stated that more peoples might have access to healthcare but the cost and quality will see no improvement. By adding the deficit and potential full time jobs lost, soon or later the real picture will emerge. What a shame.

The Republican party has just run out of constructive ideas,with a rudderless leadership to boot.

I see, and the the Democratic party led by the big chief Obama and deputy Reid is just going oh, so, so well.

Now reduced to blockers,with the aim to get to the next election stating what a failure Obama's terms were.And hoping the electorate are that dense that they put them back in power.What a brilliant idea.But even worse people support this limp approach.And limp in more ways than one.

You know what's funny, that liberals think that Republicans would be on board with this thing. They didn't like it from the BEGINNING and they don't like it NOW. Why are you surprised? You actually think they would come around and think this is a good idea? If anything, they are now even more opposed to it.

" Another aspect of this type is their eschatology. No judicious mix of revenue increases and spending cuts coupled with efficiency savings will save us - No!"

BS as usual.

Revenue increases: oh, increase taxes and tariffs some more.

Spending cuts: by that the usual meaning from DC is to reduce the planned spending increase from 25% to 20% and then announce a 5% spending cut.

There hasn't been a budget since under GWB. Wonder why ...

Fact three: This is not a fight between the Republicans and the Democrats. This is a fight between the right wing Republicans and the ass-hat Bagger Republicans.

Guess who is gonna win....

To oppose the Democrats concluding you are a Republican is quite narrow minded.

Refusing to see a debt problem is irresponsible.

The working poor likely will opt out of purchasing insurance and choose the penalty.

The insurance companies stock prices has rose today. Could be smart investors know increased profits.

Mark, the working poor were given the honor of being the highest form of Patriot by the Republican governors who refused to expand Medicaid in their state. Federal funds were offered to cover cost increases 100% for the first 3 years and then 90% after that. It's just "straight up" hurting poor people that you could take care of for free.

that you could take care of for free....

Wait, if the states put in 10% and the feds put in 90% that still means that people have to be taxed to pay for it.

There ain't no free lunch....somebody has to pay, no matter which branch of government is disbursing the money.

Free? Nothing is ever truly free. Thinking people understand that. But I suppose not thinking is how Obama racked up $6 trillion in debt faster than anyone in history. The sooner America confronts its entitlement addiction the better off it will be in the long run. Obama could care less about the fate of future generations. His kids are set. ObamaCare along with the other unsustainable and structurally flawed programs have already begun to strangle the economy. It is great how Obama wants to be compassionate with other peoples money but the when the bill comes due - and it always does - we will all be worse off.

Why wasn't anyone complaining and calling the democrat-controlled Congess hostage takers in their 16 U.S. government shutdowns between 1976 and 1990?

1976 Sept 30 to Oct 11 1977 Sept 30 to Oct 13 1977 Oct 31 to Nov 9 1977 Nov 30 to Dec 9 1978 Sept 30 to Oct 18 1979 Sept 30 to Oct 12 1981 Nov 20 to Nov 23 1982 Sept 30 to Oct 2 1982 Dec 17 to Dec 21 1983 Nov 10 to Nov 13 1984 Sept 30 to Oct 3 1984 Oct 3 to Oct 5 1986 Oct 16 to Oct 18 1987 Dec 18 to Dec 20 1990 Oct 5 to Oct 9

Why has Obama not been impeached yet? The man is destroying America.

Why can't the US politicians balance their spending and tax revenues? Most people do just that their whole lives. Why are most congress members paid for by their much poorer tax paying Americans? Why does a private bank lend money to the US government that the taxpayer has to pay interest on- this is a vicious circle! America needs a new system NOT a raising of the debt ceiling!

US politicians are part of the problem!