Obama shifts on offshore oil drilling
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0
Alinsky4prez
This is not the Barack Obama I knew.
0
USAPatriot
Hey Mr flip flop is here. Tee Hee!
Maybe he should change his name to Barack Hussein Kerry.
Guy changes policies and ideas all the time, he jus opens himself up to ridicule, what a fool. Hahahaha
0
ChimpsAhead
I was starting to believe that Obama might not be such a bad guy, but he flip flops on such a big issue. Come on what next, keep the troops in Iraq forever?
Can anyone trust this guy
0
skipthesong
I don't think its a point about trusting someone, its more about if the issue and the solution can remedy. I personally prefer a politician to flip flop if the issue fits.
But, anyway, like I said before a politician is going to be a politician. I don't know why people where thinking O is going to be any different just because he doesn't resemble an old white guy on a dollar bill.
BTW, Arny had a good point saying that flip flopping is good as long as said person states a good reason why there is a flip. Imagine if GWB came out and said we made a mistake and we are going to fix it right now?
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SezWho2
Off-shore drilling is not the solution to our energy problem. It is a great boon to oil companies but will do very little in moving us toward lessening our dependence on foreign sources.
What will do more is conservation of existing resources and the development of new types of energy resources. Obama is saying that he is not going to hold real and significant progress hostage to efforts to keep oil company greed in check.
I don't think that is much of a flip-flop. I think Obama still opposes off-shore drilling as not being a solution. I think he still advocates conservation and alternate energy resources as being the more promising solutions. There's no point in being so positional that good solutions are sacrificed to avoid weak ones.
0
USAPatriot
Heck!! I support McCain, but i don`t believe in off shore drilling. Invest heavily in alternative energy and a cheap solution will be found.
WE didn`t take long to make the a bomb when it was needed.
That same sort of commitment is needed now, no more drilling, find another energy, we have the finances to invest billion, lets do it!!!
0
SezWho2
USAPatriot,
I agree with you except for your unfortunate example of the A-bomb. It took us 4 years to develop that at a time when we did not need it.
On the other hand, energy insufficiency is a pressing problem and we have dawdled for decades in the face of a foreseeable and growing need. As the magnitude of the need has become more and more apparent, the last 7 years rate as one of the more egregious periods of delay in addressing the problem.
I entirely agree with Obama here. I think it would be a shame to sacrifice the environment to non-solutions. However, if off-shore drilling is what it takes to get the Congress to promote workable solutions and if that can be done with limited environmental impact, it is better to accept that deal than to hold out for a perfect one.
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USAPatriot
SezWho2- congress should do the right thing. Approve a maasive new energy plan , so we can find renewable energy, and give itb to thed world.
lets make gas and oil dependency a thing of the past. The technology is there, we can finance it find it and use it. Let`s start NOW!!!
0
USAPatriot
SezWho2- Maybe a better comparison would have been the Apollo missons success rather than the a bomb.
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skipthesong
Invest heavily in alternative energy and a cheap solution will be found." You are hitting very close to me. First of all, there is a LOT of investment going into alternative energies. What's the problem? We can't find ways to make money off of it. Governments have a very hard time in finding ways to tax it. Companies basically would have to get the attitude of sell once then new customer not sell to the same customer endlessly.
Off shore drilling is not the answer, but it does help the market. It does give a lot of investors a bit of a comfort zone and that they will invest in.
0
USAPatriot
We have to tell the enregy companies to "get lost". Doesn`t matter how much they bring in in taxes, we need new energy, for economic reasons and to try to halt global warming.
We have to start right now, before it is too late!!!
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skipthesong
Doesn`t matter how much they bring in in taxes, we need new energy, for economic reasons and to try to halt global warming. We have to start right now, before it is too late!!!"
Well, that's great. But a country like the US, European countries..African charities, help for the poor... they are gonna need a method of getting your tax dollars or bye bye all those social programs unless they jack you for more of your hard earned cash. Additionally, you are talking about a major loss of jobs.. major!
In all actuality, the entire world can simply stop and even go to electric cars, we have had them for a lot longer than most realize. Solar too.. rain water harvesting, wind power, tide power is up and coming, we have had it all.. but once sold its a done deal. Using sugar cane, corn, etc.. well you need level a lot of land for that, and they already are so now that is competing with cattle for space in Brazil - shame on you beef eaters, and if using corn and sugar cane, just what alternative do you expect to send to poor countries to feed people?
If one wants to be completely selfish, sure we can move there tomorrow - please you will be helping me. But, really you can't.
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USAPatriot
skipthesong- What i am saying is, we should be totally unselfish in this project. Make eco friendly energy for all, as a target, say in 15 years.
Maybe it will slow down the econmy, but it has to be done. We are destroying the planet.
I sold my 4WD years ago and bought a Wagon R , my friends laughed at me and said i was a woos etc. I don`t care, i am trying my best to help the environment.
I don`t care who is in power, we have the expertise to make free energy, not using crops etc, but real free energy. The oil giants will go down after a while, heck!! so what!!.
People and the planet come first. Lets get all the worlds top scientists together, and strive for a real eco friendly futue. Better than fighting each other isn`t it?
0
SezWho2
USAPatriot,
I don't really want to argue with your examples. My point is that some things are truly necessary and some things are not. I think that not infrequently it takes comparatively little time to do things that are not necessary and for which the primary constraint is budget. On the other hand, I think it can take a lot of time to do necessary things where the constraint is not having a clue where to begin.
That being said, I think too many US administrations have devoted too few resources to a truly "grave and gathering" problem. And administrations share in this responsibility to the degree that it was apparent that the problem loomed larger and larger. Drilling is not the answer to the problem--not even a beginning of an answer. But I wouldn't want my resistance to drilling to stand in the way of finding real solutions.
0
smithinjapan
Yeah, sure he flip-flopped, and I think that's hurts him, but he's being criticized by a FLIP-FLOPPER himself!!! Again, McCain 'conveniently' has Alzheimer's when it comes to his own opinions (and their razor sharp 180 degree turns).
0
USAPatriot
smithinjapan- Do you have any evidence that McCain is suffering from Alzheimers, or ar you guessing?
McCain does not flip flop on this important issue, unlike Obama , who is trying to take advantage of the oil crisis.
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skipthesong
smith&USA: all politician flip flop at one point or another!
sez: You are 100% but are you going to be the one to go public and say suck it up to the masses? Addtionally, all this let's care about the planet.. let me say this, unless you are Hindu, living like an Amish person, don't use soap on your body, make all your house hold items from wood, sand, and stone, use only cow dung for fire, you are still contributing to the death of the planet. The media and politician will hit oil, well because they are the big guys but notice they don't hit pig, cattle, or fish farms. They don't hit electric manufactures as they use silicone (simple as it may sound, the process to make on a mass scale is filthy), they don't hit toy makers or plastic makers.
0
Sarge
Depending on which way the wind is blowing, Obama twists in it.
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RomeoRamenII
but, but, but .... obama said just yesterday that if Americans got their cars tuned up and tires inflated properly, we save so much gas we don't need to drill.
Heh, add all the enviromentalists to the groiwing list of those thrown under obama's bus.
RR
Will the real barack obama please stand up.
RR
0
USAPatriot
RomeoRamenll - I saw that speech. Tee Hee!
Will the real Mr flip flop please stand up, please stand up, please stand up.
Tee Hee!
0
SezWho2
skipthesong,
I don't know about "the masses". "Masses", I think, implies a potential threat. When there is a mass of people, they are almost always massed for something or against something.
I think it was Marie Antoinette who said, "Suck it up," to the masses. "Let them eat cake." That didn't turn out so well.
So, I would greatly prefer having a conversation with people, discussing the situation with the people's elected representatives and seeing how best to educate myself, the representatives and the people they represent to the real alternatives. I think that if we think in terms of "the masses" we run the real danger of giving people what they want in the short term and presenting them with a fait accompli in the long".
I'm not in favor of opening new offshore drilling locations. If I can play my broken record once more, drilling will not solve the problem and it will not bring down the prices except possibly to the extent that they have speculatively appreciated. I agree with what you say about soap, wood, cow dung, plastics, etc. All I can say is that our country badly needs a real discussion about energy--and not a secret energy policy such as we have had for the last several years.
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RomeoRamenII
I'm not in favor of opening new offshore drilling locations.
Ah, but your hero is. Heh, so how does it feel to be thrown under the obama bus?
RR
0
RomeoRamenII
Obama shifts on offshore oil drilling
And in other news, liberal heads explode around the world as they realize they've been thrown under the obama bus.
Heh, at this rate obama'll put the swift boat folks out of business this election cycle since he's doing a great job at swift boating himself.
RR
0
Sarge
"I'm not in favor of opening new offshore drilling locations"
So, you're not in favor of driving your car or heating your home?
0
SezWho2
RomeoRamenII,
First, I am an independent. I preferred Obama to Hillary. I prefer Obama to McCain. My hero would be my father.
Second, I wouldn't say that Obama is in favor of opening new offshore drilling locations. He is willing to accept them if that is the price of meaningful progress on the energy issue and if offshore drilling can also minimize environmental damage.
In other words he is willing to concede to an ineffective measure if that will bring about the passage of an effective one.
0
USAPatriot
Guys, time to promote new energies. It`s goonq cost billions of Dollars, but in trhe end we all benefit.
No more oil, no more gas.
We can povide for ourselves.
0
Sarge
USA - I agree, it's time to promote/develop new energies, but that's going to take time. In the meantime, we had better start drilling for more oil...
0
RomeoRamenII
I prefer Obama to McCain
Translation: Your hero.
Anyhoo, it's good to see obama's maturing. In 15 - 20 years he might be ready to run for president.
RR
0
USAPatriot
SezWho2- Heck!! you`re an honest guy.
I don`t agree with your ideals, but i respect them 100%.
US needs more guys like you.
0
USAPatriot
Sarge- I agree drill more for the short term, but concentrate now on finding alternative energy. IRan and Russia, can`t bully other nations if their energy supplies aare worthless.
Think about it, let`s get cheap fuel, stop buying oil off Mid East countries, and support ourselves energy wise.
Let`s take the challenge, and do it!!!!
0
RomeoRamenII
If anyone wants obama's ultimate stance on any political issue, just check out Mr. Bush's positions and eventually obama will match it.
RR
0
skipthesong
sez: "First, I am an independent. I preferred Obama to Hillary. I prefer Obama to McCain. My hero would be my father." The only thing different with me and you would be the past tense of my hero being my father (can a person be hero to you after they are dead?).
Second, I wouldn't say that Obama is in favor of opening new offshore drilling locations. He is willing to accept them if that is the price of meaningful progress on the energy issue and if offshore drilling can also minimize environmental damage." Very important hit. VEry few politicians are willing to accept certain amounts of defeat or admitence to being wrong or what ever regardless how good something is for the country.
In other words he is willing to concede to an ineffective measure if that will bring about the passage of an effective one."
Good hit.
0
SuperLib
I support Obama on this.
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RomeoRamenII
So, to recap:
After having flatly said no to more drilling, no to more nuclear power, no to any use of oil shale or development of coal or anything else that might realistically address America's energy dependency on foreign oil, obama now suddenly says that he would agree to a compromise on off shore drilling?
Team obama is reading the writing on the wall. The ship has already sailed on this issue for obama as of today and there he stands limply attempting to change position, while still attempting to cling to his already demonstratively failed policy.
It'll be another five weeks before Congress will even begin to revisit lifting the ban on off shore drilling and he knows it. So now obama (having seen his numbers tank since the europeon ego trip) and after having gotten feedback on his other piece of lunacy earlier in the day, (where he told people to put air in their tires and get their cars tuned up), he has suddenly decided to try going with the wind instead of against it.
But the ploy won't wash. Voting Americans are now witnesseing how obama's hopes and dreams to win in November are dimming daily and slipping away, and obama knows it.
RR
0
SezWho2
RomeoRamenII,
If the way you translate "I prefer Obama to McCain" is that Obama is my hero, I would urge you to seek a refund from whatever school of translation you attended.
I don't understand what payoff you get by pretending to know me better than I know myself. But I can only hazard that you really have nothing to say about the issue.
You have claimed that Obama has reversed his position and that he is in favor of offshore drilling. Do you have any credible evidence to support that? Or do you just translate his preference for not granting offshore drilling rights to mean that he supports offshore drilling?
0
zurcronium
McCain reversed on drilling just a few weeks ago. So Obama does the same.
Why are the repubs so uptight about this. Oh, its because their candidate has no plans, no programs to talk about and no future. He wants to nap himself into the presidency. And let Rove slime his way to victory as he did for the boy emperor.
0
Betzee
It's unfortunate nobody is aware of the legislative context for Obama's remarks. Extending the tax credits for alternative forms of energy is stalled in Congress by Republican insistence that a provision for off-shore drilling be included. Obama is simply saying, "OK, if that's what it takes, so be it."
0
Madverts
zurc,
McCain did have the summer gas tax "plan".
0
undecidedbout08
Sen. Obama grows more like George Bush each week. He is a Bush enabler!
Off shore drilling is just one more Democratic principle Sen. Barack Obama does not stand for.
He now opposes gun control, he supports limitless funding for Iraq, he's pro death penalty, and he flipped on FISA .
No wonder he is tied with McCain...
0
Wolfpack
Obama has no real history of bipartisanship so I can only assume that he is mouthing the words until he can get elected. It is not even remotely possible to go cold turkey and immediately stop using oil and coal. The entire world economy is designed for these types of fuels. In fact, in the short to medium term it is vitally important for the US to ramp up production as much as possible. The only viable medium term answer is nuclear. It is possible to build a large number of nuclear plants over the next 10 to 25 years to offset the countries reliance on oil from the middle east. Then maybe, just maybe, in the medium to long term some alternative energy sources will prove viable. For the forseeable future, they will not be sufficiently developed to provide any more than a small proportion of the countries ever growing energy needs. But at this point, I think that we should be doing everything - drilling, developing clean coal, natural gas liguification, wind, solar, nuclear, conservation - everything. Conservatives and Liberals should just say they are both right and get going. Right now, nothing is happening - Pelosi and Reid will not allow Republicans to have any input into any energy related legislation and as a result, Congress is in paralysis.
McCain has looked at the reality of expensive energy and its effect upon the economy and he has changed his mind on off shore oil drilling. That's a rational assessment of the nations economic and national security situation. In Obama's case, he actually wants energy to be expensive - he just didn't want the price for it to rise as quickly as it did. The polls are showing that he is being hurt by not supporting any near term policy to increase energy supply. Therefore, he is making hints that he would "consider" doing so without saying he definately will so as not to offend the radical environmental groups that would hammer him if he came out for drilling.
There is no immediate solution to the energy crisis, but the quickest one is the one that Obama and other Liberals are least in favor of - producing more domestic oil, coal, and natural gas. Ironically, this hard headed way of thinking hurts the poorest people the most - the very people that Liberals profess to represent.
0
Betzee
Indeed. I find it significant that half of our country believes off-shore drilling will have an impact on prices within a year. In fact the US Dept of Energy's own Energy Information Administration www site http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/aeo/otheranalysis/ongr.html reveals that lifting existing restrictions on offshore drilling wouldn’t result in additional domestic oil production until 2017. Even then its impact on price at the pump is estimated to be insignificant.
While no one is suggesting cold turkey, you can't have both private-sector development of alternative forms of energy and an increase in domestic production. The venture capitalists who will need to pony up the money for research will be reluctant to do so if there's the prospect of more oil coming on the market since the transition costs will be significant.
0
SezWho2
undecidedbout08,
Obama voted "with Bush" 49% of the time in 2006 and 40% of the time in 2007. As far as Democrats are concerned, he's about in the middle. McCain voted "with Bush" 95% of the time last year and since 2001 has averaged 89%.
We can see from this who the real Bush enabler is. We can also see that Obama has never consistently opposed Bush. Betzee's comment is the most sensible recent one. When you look at what Obama is saying against the background of what Congress is doing, criticisms of Obama's "flip-flop" miss the mark.
0
sailwind
It's just fun with numbers. McCain voted with his party 95% of the time in 2007 it's that simple. Of course you can twist that into Bush support but it really isn't a fair comparision just an attempt to say he supported Bush instead what would be common sense. He voted with his party most of the time which isn't really shocking and Bush happens to lead that party so this is just a sneaky way of guilt by association instead of any real stand for Bush in general by McCain.
I'll leave readers to make up their mind.
But suppose the sitting President was a Democrat? Then the numbers for Obama would be???????? I'm thinking 96% of the time would be a fair number along with his voting record of the past.
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/isittruejohnmccainvotedwith.html
Also, Obama voted in line with fellow Senate Democrats 97 percent of the time in 2007 and 2005, and 96 percent of the time in 2006, according to CQ.
And so . . .
So to sum up, McCain has indeed voted to support the unpopular Bush 95 percent of the time most recently, but less so in earlier years. And Obama has voted pretty close to 100 percent in line with fellow Democrats during his brief Senate career.
0
SezWho2
sailwind,
I think your point about party line voting is accurate, but I think you play fast and loose with your summary. You wish to characterize McCain's percentage of party-line vote as 95% but Obama's as almost 100%. I doubt that there is any statistical difference between 95 and 96.
Yes, Democrats and Republicans both tend to vote along party lines. But so what? That does not change the fact that Obama is in the middle of the pack of Democrats when it comes to voting with the administration. I am speaking to the bit of whimsy that characterizes Obama as a "Bush-enabler".
For all the fun you are having with numbers, the truth is that Obama was less a "Bush-enabler" last year than the year before. And another truth is that among Democrats he was not at either extreme--those falling in with the administration line or those strenuously opposing it. And, incidentally, since Obama also rates fairly high in voting with his party against the other party (which is what I think the CQ numbers show), it means that Democrats, in general, have supported ideas embraced by the administration to a fairly significant degree.
This is not about playing with numbers. This is about putting a stop to talking trash.
0
Sarge
Bad news for Obama and the Democrats: Oil prices are at a 3 month low.
0
USAPatriot
Sarge- great post!!!
Another flip flop from Barack Hussein Obama, how can anyone believe a word this guy says? Hee Hee!
0
knucklerap
Time to flip on Artic National Wildlife Reserve. This has got to be a quicker solution than offshore drilling and with far less environmental damage to worry about.
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