Obama stem cell regulations temporarily blocked
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51 Comments
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0
adaydream
I can't believe this. The Nightlight Christian Adoptions group is a bunch of prolifers just taking another swipe at keeping things back in the ice age. < :-)
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smithinjapan
"The nonprofit group Nightlight Christian Adoptions contends that the government’s new guidelines will decrease the number of human embryos available for adoption."
Oh, BS! They are just nuts and everyone knows it. Another step back in evolution for the US.
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skipbeat
I don't believe in stem cell research. Taking the embryo to be experimented on is morally and ethically wrong. Man is not God.
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TheQuestion
Embryonic stem cell research has a lot of potential, but so do other abhorrent practices. As it stands Adult and Amniotic stem cells can be collected and used with far less fuss.
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Noliving
Exactly, when any article about the US is talking about banning or doing something dealing with stem cells they are talking about embryonic not adult stem cells or Amniotic stem cells, in some cases adult stem cells are better then embryonic stem cells.
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skipbeat
This article is not talking about adult stem cells research.
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smithinjapan
"I don't believe in stem cell research. Taking the embryo to be experimented on is morally and ethically wrong. Man is not God."
But taking an embryo from a human and freezing it is all good and dandy, I suppose? Or how about all the embryos that get thrown in the trash can once one of the batch holds?
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Madverts
" Man is not God."
At least man exists....
0
PeaceWarrior
High five on that one.
0
TheQuestion
Simply stating the advantage of the alternative.
Don't make me go all existential on you, there will be angst.
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Madverts
"Don't make me go all existential on you, there will be angst."
Meaning?
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Molenir
Yep, because the morality and ethics are just stone age relics. Gotta get rid of that useless baggage. Oh wait, just the morality and ethics you disagree with right?
0
TheQuestion
It was a joke. Albeit not a particularly good one.
0
skipbeat
Madverts,
Man exists because...
0
Madverts
"Man exists because..."
Because I'm replying to you. I don't have anymore answers than science has to suggest, but the oness on you is to prove your fictive god exists. Heh, faith alone is just Denial.
Now that's out of the way I certainly refuse all the religious story-books dating back a couple of thousands of years, books written and ammended by man to suit himself, to dictate anything whatsoever to me.
Especially not when they're impeding the advance of science to cure sick people.
0
Madverts
Sorry the Q, I didn't get it :-)
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adaydream
You don't believe in it, don't use the technology or the science. Those who believe this shouldn't be stopped because you don't like it. Period. < :-)
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Molenir
Ok, I won't stop em. But I also won't let me tax money go to fund them. Hows that for a compromise. Wait, thats precisely whats happening here...
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Madverts
Not all taxpayers share your view though.
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Molenir
And they are welcome to give to charities and organizations that support research into these fields. Taxpayer money however should not be spent. Private monies, well who cares...
0
Frungy
Fair enough. However at every birth the placenta and other blood contain a mass of stem cells that are, in most cases, just wasted. They can also filter stem cells from bone marrow. They've also made a lot of progress in reverse engineering stem cells from adult cells.
In short not believing in stem cell research is kindof like not believing in gravity. Whether you like it or not it's there, and there are moral ways of doing it that hurt no-one and potentially could help a whole lot of people.
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TheQuestion
I've never claimed to be a comedian.
Proof would be a little counter productive to the whole faith thing. I like my faith, it feels right so I go with it. I've got nothing to prove and no reason to try.
Others have already stated that it's not adult and amniotic stem cells people have a problem with, just embryotic.
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Madverts
"taxpayer money however should not be spent."
The religious rights "my way or the highway" eh?
Another fine reason why religion should be kept in the private private of the believer's home, or in designated areas for their particular sect, instead of impedeing science that could cure sick people!
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Molenir
And your morality is what exactly? Sounds like you are pushing your own version of "my way or the highway".
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Madverts
"Sounds like you are pushing your own version of "my way or the highway"."
I've already expressed my opinion, which is that I don't want people who are basing their decisions on "faith", making decisions whatsoever unless it's for themselves in the privacy of their own homes.
Just like a sex-fetish. Outta sight, please.
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adaydream
Molenir, I got you.
I'm sick and tired of my tax dollars being given right back out to the rich. So no more of the bush tax breaks. I want control of my tax dollars, also. I don't want my tax dollars wasted on killing in the Afghanistan either.
I like this game of saying where my tax dollars are to be spent.
I'm for stem cell research and cures. < :-)
0
tigermoth
Likely if you found yourself or a loved one blind or in a wheelchair which might very well be remedied by said stem cell research, you might change your mind. For those morally opposed where do you draw the line between 'playing God' and using the intelligence/brain that this God supposedly provided?
Check in your local fertility clinic to see how many human embryos are flushed per year. Not because the donors are 'morally bankrupt' but often because they are simply trying to have children, or help someone who cannot. I won't enter the fray on when human life becomes viable, but much as an organ donor benefits the recipient, wouldn't it be much better if these cells went to help a blind man see, or a disabled girl walk rather than be tossed? Food for thought.
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Madverts
"Likely if you found yourself or a loved one blind or in a wheelchair which might very well be remedied by said stem cell research, you might change your mind. "
Exactly. And worse if you yourself or a loved one are sick and you have to listen to religious cranks working against a science that just might find cures for all sorts of issues.
0
Molenir
But you do want their tax dollars to be spent on programs you deem worthy, even if they are opposed. Thats because your way is "morally" superior. You condemn those who are religious, and believe your way is the right way, and think anyone who believes differently must therefore be wrong. This is of course typical thinking of the left. Sadly they are firm believers in freedom of speech, so long as they agree with that speech. If they don't, they want you to shut up.
So, no Bush tax breaks. You're saying you want to raise taxes across the board then. Especially on people who are already paying a hell of a lot more money then you. That is also typical lib thinking. Take from those who have, in order to do with their money what you want. Of course it must be the right cause else forget it. After all if the money goes to build a church, unless its a mosque, then forget it. But if its to fund abortions etc, then its ok. So, who is pushing their morality on who?
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Madverts
Your reasoning is un-sound. It's based on faith, not reality, and you're potentially opposing the advancement of healing fellow humans on this basis.
Please. It's un-fair to others.
Goodnight
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TheQuestion
In what way? You support embryotic stem cell reasearch for medical purposes, an admirable reason. Others oppose it because they equate the destruction of an embryo to the destruction of human life, and on a very basic level it is. I don't have a problem with people electing to participate in potentially lethal studies or the donation of one's body to science. However an embryo has little option in the matter. The possible benefits of embryotic stem cell research could be substantial, I simply don't feel the ends justify the means based on current research.
They would have never forgiven me.
Faith is fact to those who attest to it. A person can only act in accordance with their own codes of moral conduct. I can't ask any more of anyone.
0
Molenir
And your reasoning is based on what? Your agnostic presumption? Your morals that are based on what precisely? Where is your particular moral compass and why is it somehow superior to mine?
By all means, give your own dollars to whatever charitable causes you wish to support. If you think this will aid humanity in the future, then support it with your private funds. Why should public monies, more specifically my tax dollars, be spent on causes that I and so many other people find morally repellent? Simply because you find the possible benefits outweigh any moral arguments against them? Because like so many in the pro-abort crowd, you insist that life magically begins when the baby emerges from the womb, and not at conception or some random number of days or weeks between?
0
adaydream
Molenir,
That's exactly right. It was the bush tax cuts that put us where we are, along with TARP. Neither ones were paid. All borrowed money. At least the Obama Stimulus Plan is money loaned and will be repaid eventually. And with all the tax breaks for the rich, that 39% tax rate is actually only 18%. No more than when Bill Clinton was president.
Fund abortions or pay support on a lot of unwanted children. Which one is cheaper.
Then we have stem cells that can possibly cure and save lives and a bunch of church holy rollers who are getting in that way. < :-)
0
Molenir
You're going a bit off topic here...
So it wasn't 9-11, wasteful government spending, the war(s), no it was the fault of the Bush Tax Cuts which will soon expire. (Amazing how its Bush's fault again. I wonder, is there anything that isn't Bush's fault these days?) And you're wrong about the stimulus as well. That spending added directly to the deficit. Very soon, the Dems are going to raise taxes by default. What that really means, is rather then a recovery, we're heading into a recession. Everyone be sure to thank your local Democrat this November, by voting for his or her opponent.
0
adaydream
Yeah, I may have been off topic but only to answer your question.
We'll be a long time paying for bush's presidency.
Where am I wrong on the stimulus? TARP was a pure give-away. No paying it back what-so-ever. If the stimulus isn't a loan, why are the auto makers paying back their loans? Why is are there numerous bank loans being repaid? bush gave away his $700Billion. No repayment.
That's B/S. With more than 400K, they don't have enough? Again, B/S. < :-)
0
Madverts
"Why should public monies, more specifically my tax dollars, be spent on causes that I and so many other people find morally repellent?"
Beacause your moral argument is based on "faith", a sect related to old story-books written by, and amended by man for his personal gain without any proof of actual existence.
You have your right to believe in fantasy, but you don't have the right stopping others finding potential cures on the back of it. It's criminal.
0
Molenir
Ah, so because its based on my "faith", its somehow different from your own. You have a "faith" of your own, based on emotions, and logic, and its interesting how mine is as well.
And apart from calling religion a fantasy, which is extremely offensive by the way, I'm saying you have a right to your lack of belief as well, however it shouldn't decide where my tax dollars go. Feel free to give to a charity of your choice which supports finding these potential cures. I have no objection to that. I do object, when you want to take my money and give it to people who will use it for immoral purposes, on the basis of some potential cure. Private money, who cares, public money, no.
0
kyushujoe
@Molenir
As a christian I'd have to disagree. It's not in the least offensive. And can you tell us where in the Bible Jesus tells us stem cell research is wrong? I can't find it....
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Madverts
"And apart from calling religion a fantasy, which is extremely offensive by the way"
It is not my intention to be offensive to you, molenir. Perhaps you just don't want to think about what I'm really saying about your sect, whichever one it may be. Obviously I think I'm right or I wouldn't be arguing over it, but until you have an inkling of proof regarding the claims made in your old and re-written texts, I don't think it should be a basis for impeding the advancement of medicine......or have weight in any government affairs for that matter.
We've all seen shocking cases of jehova's witnesses letting their own children die rather than having a blood transfusion. I find your own stance not far removed.
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Madverts
" And can you tell us where in the Bible Jesus tells us stem cell research is wrong? I can't find it...."
It's funny how people can literaly make up their own interpretations of their religion's scriptures, and then try and force it onto everyone else. The intolerance of religious fundamentalists is amazing. People have a right to religion, but they don't have a right to force it on other people, as the Molenir's of the world would.
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Molenir
Ah, so you don't find people calling your beliefs fantasy offensive? I find it hard to believe you are as you claim. As for stem cell research being wrong, its no more wrong then abortion. Thats not in the bible either. It has to with life being sacred, and this idea that life begins when the child magically emerges from the womb, to me is simply wrong.
Am I forcing you to my beliefs? I'm simply saying you don't, or shouldn't have the right to spend my money on things I so strongly oppose. It seems like its more your being intolerant of my beliefs here, insisting that you know where to spend my money better then me, and that since you are fine with it being spent on immoral purposes, then I should be ok with it too. I find hysterical ranting, from this and other threads, about how religion is the basis of all evil, and if religion just went away, people would behave better, to be the ultimate fantasy. Like it or not, religion is the basis for most of the morals that make society worthwhile.
Again, feel free to throw your money at whatever you want. Save up, give to charity. But if you can't give a better answer as to why tax money should go to support these things, other then because I oppose it because of "faith", and you support it for "rational" reasons then forget it. Your rational, is no different then my faith. Its a faith of your own. Be it agnostic, or atheist. Its no less a faith. And if anything, one less tolerant of other beliefs then most other religions.
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Madverts
My rational exists. Yours is based on faith. I rest my case, unless you can answer Joe's question....
Moderator: No further debate on faith please.
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