Monday May 28, 2012

Obama to offer his own debt reduction package

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  • 2

    paulinusa

    "Class warfare"? Have the wealthiest people lost a war or even a battle recently? Yea, the poor and middle class have really been sticking it to the rich haven't they?

  • -1

    yanee

    Yep-stick it to the rich. Give the Government YET MORE MONEY TO WASTE on themselves instead of REDUCING PAYROLL and SIZE. This is not class warfare, nor should it be. This is simply the Government spending the peoples money without any oversight. Even when the Government was showing a "record tax income" in the 90's, did they look to reduce taxes? No...they looked to increase spending even MORE. something is wrong here and the Government is happy to let us think it is class warfare. Make us look the other way while they spend OUR MONEY, not theirs.

  • 0

    just-a-guy

    America will be 'saved' if only the republican party was banned and criminalrized!

  • -1

    yanee

    @just - Spoken like a true Democrat! Yeah O'bummer!!!

  • 0

    Laguna

    REDUCING PAYROLL and SIZE

    What would you propose to close the budget gap? Eliminating ALL discretionary non-military spending will not be enough. Seriously, have you thought this through at all? What would you recommend?

  • 1

    yanee

    @Laguna: Keeping promises...Out of Iraq and Afghanistan for one. Why do you assume I am skipping over the military? Why do we have over 700 US bases and over 300,000 troops overseas? They are no longer needed around the world.

  • 0

    globalwatcher

    One of defense spending reduction is a military retirement pay. There are many double dippers who served 20 yrs in military. Many of them are getting out at age 39 with military retirement pay for life and start second career in civilian life. What the congress is thinking to do is delaying the payout until they reach 60/62 yrs old.

    There will be many changes in qualification of SSI and Medicare on horizon as a part of reduction plan.

  • -1

    sailwind

    One of defense spending reduction is a military retirement pay. There are many double dippers who served 20 yrs in military. Many of them are getting out at age 39 with military retirement pay for life and start second career in civilian life.

    They gave twenty years of their life serving the country and giving up most of the rights ordinary citizens take for granted. They are ordered where to go, where to live, can't be political or protest working or living conditions. Can be punished under the UCMJ, a justice system that is far more strict than any civilian court for those who fall under it. Can be ordered what to do in their "free time" such as being under curfew and if found in violation punished under the UCMJ for violation of lawful orders. They protect those that are free but are not really free themselves. In return for giving up their rights the ones you take for granted the Govt made a promise that after twenty years they will honor their service and sacrifice by providing a small monthly pension for life. This is not some sort of "entitlement" this is something they have Earned, I repeat earned..................They kept their end of their enlistment contracts the Govt is under the exactly the same obligation to keep up its end of the contract.

  • 0

    yanee

    I agree with Military retirement pay. They deserve evry penny for what America puts then through.

    However I do not agree with government retirement pay. Under the new rules, government employees only get a 401K style pension like everyday workers, however the older workers are still receiving generous retirements from 20 years in the government as well as some with their 20+ year military retirement pay. Double dipping was and still s legal until these folks are gone. These people were all "grandfathered" in under the old rules and we pay huge amounts of money to support them for their entire lives. Needs to stop.

  • -3

    Lieberman2012

    Obama laughed when telling the press that his first stimulus plan never had any of the shovel-ready jobs he promised.I don't think the American public believes him. Many top Dems speak openly of the desire to see a challenger to Obama .

  • 1

    Laguna

    To the above three posters: the US military is, as many have said, the largest socialist organization in the United States, and the promises made, particularly to those injured in Bush's wars, will be kept - and the costs accrued by Bush will continue to be paid by my children long after I am dead. Fire all active-duty personnel, scrap the weaponry, and the military would continue to cost for decades.

    Yanee, I agree with you that the US needs to do some hard thinking about how it allocates its treasure. Panetta has recently been suggesting that cuts in Pentagon spending will hit the economy, but others have mentioned that military spending in terms of direct impact on US employment is 30 - 40% compared with hiring teachers or rebuilding infrastructure.

    Long-term thinking regarding what type of country the US wants to build is required, but then, the US also must take some short-term steps to get its house in order. Republicans don't seem to learn from history well. The economy did quite well under Clinton, with higher marginal and capital gain rates; it stagnated under Bush until finally collapsing in his last year. "Job creators"?! - the US added over twice as many jobs per annum over the Clinton years than over the Bush years. Republicans would have you believe that "job creators" will simply not "create jobs" if they are piqued in some way.

    We'll see how the conservative Democrats react to Obama's proposals, but one thing is certain: they have made stark the choices between the parties.

  • -2

    Lieberman2012

    justa guy you are like some of the other America haters here.When you type stuff like

    America will be 'saved' if only the republican party was banned and criminalrized!

    people read it and think Chinese who hate America support the Democratic Party .

  • 2

    Spidapig24

    Lieberman2012

    justa guy you are like some of the other America haters here.When you type stuff like "America will be 'saved' if only the republican party was banned and criminalrized!" people read it and think Chinese who hate America support the Democratic Party .

    Yes there may be America haters but you would have to be the worlds biggest Obama hater. All you do is whine incessantly Obama this Obama that. Seriously dont you ever get tired of kicking the guy.

  • 0

    sailwind

    The economy did quite well under Clinton, with higher marginal and capital gain rates;

    Thanks mainly to the disintegration of the Soviet Union and the fact Clinton didn't have Cold War defense budgets, as a matter of fact he was the one that got the "peace dividend" money on his watch, spending on national defense dropped from over 6 percent of GDP to 3.8 percent for Clinton. That is one heck of chunk of change that he had to play with. All thanks to the U.S Military and the sacrifices they made and ultimately winning the cold war after 50 years manning the wall against the eastern block.

  • -1

    Leopalacesux

    Funny how the Soviet Union collapsing amounts to the U.S. military winning. Don't spin so fast. You make me dizzy and I might puke.

    What concerns me more than military spending by GDP (using the word defense would just be more forced and silly spin) is the fact that 20 percent of the budget in 2010 was military. 20 percent! This is just plain ludicrous.

    If some people here are not completely mind controlled by the military/ industrial complex, then they must be part of it. Eisenhower warned us, but his words fell on deaf ears.

  • 1

    yabits

    In return for giving up their rights the ones you take for granted the Govt made a promise that after twenty years they will honor their service and sacrifice by providing a small monthly pension for life. This is not some sort of "entitlement" this is something they have Earned, I repeat earned..................They kept their end of their enlistment contracts the Govt is under the exactly the same obligation to keep up its end of the contract.

    I don't believe I am mistaken, but I think you were one of those arguing against Wisconsin public employees receiving benefits exceeding many in private sector jobs. Those Wisconsin public workers had signed contracts and had promises made to them too.

    Unlike those arguing in favor of government's breaking faith with some employees while honoring promises made to others, I am consistent. However, there should be one significant condition placed on ex-military personnel: If they take a government job after leaving the military, their military pension should be held in a deferred account and not paid to them until they leave government service completely. In other words, they should not be allowed to double-dip the taxpayers.

  • 0

    sailwind

    I don't believe I am mistaken, but I think you were one of those arguing against Wisconsin public employees receiving benefits exceeding many in private sector jobs. Those Wisconsin public workers had signed contracts and had promises made to them too.

    Let me know when a Military member can join a union and have them negotiate a contract and pension benefits on their behalf.

    > However, there should be one significant condition placed on ex-military personnel: If they take a government job after leaving the military, their military pension should be held in a deferred account and not paid to them until they leave government service completely.

    I also see you have no problem with breaking contracts already agreed to and promised in the first place.

  • 1

    yanee

    @Yabits: The government workers in Wisconsin do not place their lives on the line every day. They, for the most part work eight hour days and are not expected to die for the state of Wisconsin.

    Why should they deserve a lifetime of payments for 20 years of government service actually producing nothing while the average worker anywhere in the world contributes to his/her local economy, gets paid a salary yet has to give up a portion of their salary for their own future and stable healthcare be it in payroll deductions or taxes?

  • 1

    Laguna

    ...he was the one that got the "peace dividend" money on his watch, spending on national defense dropped from over 6 percent of GDP to 3.8 percent for Clinton....

    Yup, that he was! And that wasn't just due to cuts; it was due to high economic growth. It was also due to avoidance of unnecessary wars. And when he left notice to the Bush administration that al Quida should be on a strong watch list - well, the rest is history. What should have been a police action turned into the biggest farce in America's military history. America is spending more than the closest ten spenders combined to combat guys in caves and shooting from Toyota flatbeds. I'm not saying that this is not dangerous; I do question how much it protects the US, and whether there is not a cheaper, vastly more effective way.

    But then again, cost effectiveness has never been an issue when it comes to the military.

  • -1

    Leopalacesux

    To combine what Yabits and Laguna are saying, how infuriating is it to have someone demand soldiers be treated specially for their "sacrifices" when if not for their willingness to either thoughtlessly or mindful of future expected gratitude, they go off to fight never ending contrived wars on command and make the embarrassment and wasted money possible?

    Its a bit like having a baseball thrown through your window, having a guy come the same day to fix it, having him tell you how busy he is and how lucky you are to have the window fixed so fast, only to remember that this is same guy who just last week was passing out free baseballs to every kid in town, as he holds his hand out for a tip.

  • 0

    Jeffrey Duelley

    America should just default on its debt. It's now mathematically impossible for America to pay back its debt. I wonder how long before the US pulls an Argentina and starts confiscating private retirement accounts.

  • 1

    yabits

    I served in the Navy for seven years, extending one year on an initial six-year enlistment in order to receive some of the best technical training on the planet. When it came time to decide if I was going to make the military a career, I decided against it -- and oh, how the career counselors threw the "wonderful pension" I'd be giving up at me.

    The main reason I decided against it was because I realized that my parents had taken care of me for the better part of 17 years and Uncle Sam had taken care of me for 7 years after that -- and it was time for me to try my hand as a productive citizen in the civilian marketplace. After all, I had seen first-hand what 20+ years of loafing off of Uncle Sam had done to people, in creating a real dependency-entitlement mentality. They didn't mind the military telling them what to do because that is precisely what they needed -- the same way some cons need the "structure" and routine of prison life.

    As far as all those ancient armies go, who the heck knows? The founding fathers screwed the original continental army, paying them off with bogus money. Perhaps that's the history that applies here.

    One thing is plain however when advocating the shafting of a public service employee by someone in the military: The thing these so-called "conservatives" hate more than anything else is the suggestion that they try the tiniest drop of the medicine they are always dishing out to others.

  • 0

    Laguna

    Whoa, Jeffy! - do you remember twelve years ago, in the year 1999, when people were worried about two things: that computers would not function because they'd think they were back in Teddy Roosevelt's time; and that investors would have no bookmark for value because the American budget surplus would eliminate the t-bill market?

    Yes! That was only twelve years ago! And it turns out that both predictions were totally off the mark; the first was overcome by a cool Prince song and the actual lack of a crisis, and the second by radically irresponsible tax and spending policies inflicted on America by a certain party beginning with the letter R led by a New England-bred Texan with the middle initial W. We're probably getting close to the stuff you've studied in school.

    The point is that a balanced budget existed not so far in America's past and is achievable again not so far in its future. The debt crisis is brought to you thanks to the Republicans: they created it, they are hyping it, and they are blocking any and all paths towards its alleviation.

  • -1

    Leopalacesux

    The American Founding Fathers must be crying in their graves. They were averse to having a standing army for so many reasons. And we went from that to having the most expensive, best equipped standing army in the world and by a large expensive margin.

    And its like a bodyguard who has two plans: Plan A which makes you 90 percent safe for $800 dollars and Plan B which makes you 95 percent safe, for $8000. Its not long before you have become the bodyguard's gardener and working for free if you choose plan B.

    Sailwind worries so much about protecting freedom from the outside, he does not see the attack from inside. This debt could be our undoing, and so much of it is being thrown at the military for not much extra benefit.

  • 0

    globalwatcher

    Those Wisconsin public workers had signed contracts and had promises made to them too.

    I need to do some more research, but this is what I was told by a Circuit Court Judge many years ago when I was a scholar..

    "Govt can breach anything anytime until you receive THE FIRST check from the govts, and you CASH IT.

  • -1

    Alphaape

    Senior administration officials say that in pushing for his jobs plan, Obama will highlight the need for long-term deficit reduction and the need to achieve it through spending cuts and tax revenue. In so doing, they will try to create sharp differences with Republicans that could serve him in the 2012 presidential campaign.

    In the Chicago Sun Times, and editorial ran on why Obama should withdraw from the 2012 race. Among reasons it lists that his approval rating is at its lowest level ever. His party just lost two House elections — one in a district it had held for 88 consecutive years. He's staked his future on the jobs bill, which most Americans don't think would work, and that the vultures are starting to circle. Former White House spokesman Bill Burton said that unless Obama can rally the Democratic base, which is disillusioned with him, "it's going to be impossible for the president to win." Democratic consultant James Carville had one word of advice for Obama: "Panic."

    So I guess maybe the Demsmay try to bring in someone else eventually to run against him.

  • 0

    globalwatcher

    @Alphaape,

    No matter who becomes our next President, these social benefits (medicare, SSI, military pension, govt pension) will be CUT. That's the fact.

    The govts have been encouraging us to invest on IRS, ROTH IRS, individual annuity and 401K early in advance for retirement. Some poeple never listened and still DO NOT.

    The truth of matter is that all govts retirement is just a supplement income. Everyone should prepare for their own retirement.

    I tell you that they are all coming sooner or later like avalanches. Do we want our country to be like Greece?

  • 0

    globalwatcher

    They gave twenty years of their life serving the country and giving up most of the rights ordinary citizens take for grantedLet me know when a Military member can join a union

    sailwind, one of them is a right to join a union. Plus, you cannot sue govts. That's why I do not go to a military hospital. They are protected in a legal immunity.

  • 0

    Jeffrey Duelley

    No, social programs won't be cut. The US will take the path of least resistance and inflate its debt away. Investing in a 401k is a dumb idea, because global stock markets are going to collapse. Gold is up almost 50% year-on-year and silver around 110$. Wouldn't that be the better investment?

  • 0

    globalwatcher

    Jeff, govts will not cut all social benefits to a "cut and dry", but there will be some changes.

    You can still select finds in gold, silver within 401k. There are many excellent fund managers who are hedging against falling dollars.

    I am a strong advocate for investment diversifications among 401k, IRS, Roth IRS and Annuity and savings. If we set our minds to be an investor instead of a trader, we will all come out just fine.

  • 0

    sailwind

    One thing is plain however when advocating the shafting of a public service employee by someone in the military: The thing these so-called "conservatives" hate more than anything else is the suggestion that they try the tiniest drop of the medicine they are always dishing out to others.

    Point of order: Members of the Military are public service employees. The suggestion to a liberal that other public service employees who are not in the military be treated and abide by the same rules and regulations that they are held to is called taking the same medicine they do as public servants in service to others.

  • 0

    HumanTarget

    Sailwind,

    Did you just dieify the military? That's kind of scary, dude.

    And let's honest, you can talk about "protecting our freedoms" and whatever else, but the number of military men and (especially) women that actually see any kind of combat, and the pay they recieve for doing so, is miniscule compared to the number of people serving in ancillary roles, private contractors, etc. and the money given to them. Not to mention the many billions of dollars spent on ongoing projects for outmoded or otherwise useless military equipment, as well as military equipment that is ultimately used in some non-military capacity (law enforcement, etc.)

    And, Sailwind, just to be clear: the men and women that actually put their lives on the line in our military deserve every penny of compensation from the government. But we CANNOT afford to pay for all these things, and when the government runs out of money to pay what's owed, guess who gets the shaft? The frontline grunts - the men and women who actually saw combat. But you think a 5-star general is gonna be giving up his pension any time soon? Fat chance.

  • -1

    Jeffrey Duelley

    What will Americans do when the government seizes the money from their retirement funds. Obama may just be going after the rich now, but all Americans will become a target of the government eventually.

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