Obama urges reckoning with racism's 'uncomfortable truths'

As I stated elsewhere, the South was mainly fighting for state's rights, not for slavery. But regardless, what sickens me here is that Obama would exploit this event, and while he is addressing the grieving family and friends of the victims, he is pushing for removal of the flag and stricter gun control, as well as amplifying American racism. The nine victims were murdered by one nutter, not by the South.

what sickens me here is that Obama would exploit this event

Yeah, nothing like using murders perpetrated due to racism to push an anti-racism agenda. Whatever made him think there would be a connection there?

the South was mainly fighting for state's rights, not for slavery.

Yeah, a state's "right" to keep slavery based on racism. The designer of the Confederate flag was racist. This nutter you're talking about is racist and is part of a bigger group, and not an isolated case of an individual.

Yeah, a state's "right" to keep slavery based on racism.

No, the government imposed severe tariffs that benefited the North at the expense of the South; the South was fed up and wanted to secede. And I do believe there were a number of slave-owning states that fought for the North. Clearly, the North did not fight this war to free the slaves, to fought it to continue to exploit the South. Slavery might have been a part of the war, but not the main motivation.

@ Strangerland My point was that if I was mourning the death of a loved one, I really would not want some politician to come and push their agenda. They should do that somewhere else.

My point was that if I was mourning the death of a loved one, I really would not want some politician to come and push their agenda. They should do that somewhere else.

Often when a loved one dies, people want to use that death to make the world a better place, in order for the death to not be meaningless. An example would be Amber Alerts.

In this case, these people died as a result of racist ideology. It's likely that their families would be happy if this could be used to make the world a slightly less racist place. I seriously doubt they have an issue with Obama pushing an anti-racist agenda right now.

@Ramzee, you are way out of line on this one. Clementa Pinckney and Barrack Obama are both prominent political office holders from the same party who knew each other. Obama owes his presidency to early supporters like Pinckney. I don't know what you are getting at with the "some politician" complaint.

No, the government imposed severe tariffs that benefited the North at the expense of the South; the South was fed up and wanted to secede.

High tariffs on manufactured goods and low ones on raw materials undoubtedly benefited the North but did not materially harm the Southern - their raw materials were far more than competitive with those from Europe and the West Indies; and while they were piqued at having to pay more for their European furniture and clothing, pricey bureaus and dresses were a minor complaint and not a component of the decision to go to war.

Look at the timing: the period from the mid-1800s to the outbreak of the war saw rapid expansion of the US both to the south (Florida, Texas) and the west. The North and the South each strove to expand their influence by increasing the number of Free or Slave states; the result was that states were admitted in pairs, one of each, to maintain the status quo. The South could see, though, that due to geographic and demographic factors, Free states would inevitably outnumber Slave states, giving the Federal Government power to end slavery once and for all.

It was slavery - the South's determination to preserve it and their understandable anxiety that this ability would soon disappear - that was the ultimate factor in their decision to leave the Union.

One good thing about this incident is that it draws a clear line. It's a lot easier to see who the racists are now.

@ Strangerland My point was that if I was mourning the death of a loved one, I really would not want some politician to come and push their agenda. They should do that somewhere else.

The murders were carried out by a terrorist espousing hatred of black people and that they do not deserve to be citizens in the USA. But somehow you overlook that because the first black President speaks at his friends funeral about the racism that killed the Rev. Clementa Pinckney. Black lives matter Ramzee.

Obama is right that this needs to be discussed, not covered up as you suggest, and as has been done for 150 years plus since the end of the civil war by many whites and their mostly republican elected officials. That of course is why the Dixie flag still is used in many areas of the south.

@Ramzee

Clearly, the North did not fight this war to free the slaves, to fought it to continue to exploit the South. Slavery might have been a part of the war, but not the main motivation.

I used to think that as well until I read about the power struggle that occurred as the Western states were being added to the Union. For every new free state there had to be a slave state to prevent the abolitionists from getting the upper hand in Congress. It came down to the abolitionists threat to the South's huge economic investment in slavery. Even great men like Washington and Jefferson could not rid themselves of slavery though they knew it was morally wrong. When Lincoln got elected president the South saw a threat to their way of life and seceded. At least this is how I have come to understand history.

The biggest causality of the Civil War - besides the 600,000 killed and many times more wounded and displaced - was the American Federalist form of government. States rights and the 10th Amendment to the Constitution have been severely damaged by the South's defeat and their ignoble fight to maintain slavery. Sadly, we see the disastrous affects of this loss today as an ever more powerful federal government grabs more of the freedoms that used to belong to individuals and the states. Slavery is America's original sin and it by the looks of it, it's legacy in the deligitimization of the 10th amendment may yet cause the country to split apart.

“....we’re guarding against the subtle impulse to call Johnny back for a job interview but not Jamal,” he said.

Bwahahaha! White America elected him, a black man, to the most important position in the world. Besides, Johnny may just be better qualified - imagine that!

The very last thing the "progressive" left wants is an honest conversation on race.

"White America elected him, a black man,"

With the help of 99% of black America, lol.

White America elected him, a black man, to the most important position in the world.

Actually, he won a minority of the majority, but a majority of the minority. Still, he's had a good June: Obamacare, again reaffirmed by the Supremes, seems unstoppable; TPP (whether you like it or not - but it is an Obama priority) passed the fast-track vote in Congress; and now, the Supremes have given Constitutional freedom to an issue that Obama embraced late in his career but fully when he did. Next up, and soon: Peace with Iran.

Lame duck, this guy, eh? He's on track to leave the largest impact on American society since Kennedy.

With the help of 99% of black America, lol.

Who make up only 12% of the electorate, so not that meaningful.

He's on track to leave the largest impact on American society since Kennedy.

Whaaa? Kennedy is an insignificant figure in American history. No, really.

Er, White America is a song by Eminem. What next, some sociology lessons from Insane Clown Posse?

Don't think Skinnee would stoop so low as to stab a WWII vet like Kennedy in the back. What was Reagan up to during the war (honestly don't know, just asking to satisfy my curiosity)

Obama urges reckoning with racism's 'uncomfortable truths'

He should start by looking at the hatred in his own heart.

Kennedy was the only Catholic ever elected US president. That alone is pretty historical.

@Laguna, so you are telling us that Reagan's main contribution to America's most important war was to prance around in costume for the entertainment of real troops like JFK? That right there is a real head scratcher for anyone belittling Kennedy.

Let's be realistic. A large part of the reason a black president was able to win was because:

1) People were entirely fed up with Bush, who started (but didn't finish) two wars, one based on lies

2) His opponents were an ancient geezer who was VP when Bush broke the country, and ditz that you wouldn't want running a McDonalds, much less a country.

This created the perfect circumstance for a black man to be able to get voted in as president, and it's just lucky that he mostly turned out to be a pretty amazing president. But to use his being elected as an argument that racism is dead in the U.S.? Get real. A whole lot of people didn't vote for him either time, and he's been straight up disrespected like no other president ever before. To think that his getting elected president means racism is dead shows either a serious lack of critical thinking, or someone who wants to claim racism is dead, so as to avoid having to do the right thing and deal with it.

Until the victimization of the slave history subsides. Yes, blacks were slaves. Terrible history of it. The guilty parties and victims are long dead. Move on! Honestly I would rather be a decendant of a slave here in USA today over a black man in Africa. They do have something to be thankful for.

The over sensitivity paranoia of calling incidents racist exists. When instead It's not racist at all. Labeling yourself a victim daily limits ones ability to empower themselves to elevate to the next level. Hence the perpetual low income, low education communities.....of all races and creeds.

And now we have MarkG saying 'yes racism exists, BUT at least they don't have to live in Africa.

Always mitigating. Always mitigating.

Laguna: He's on track to leave the largest impact on American society since Kennedy.

Nothing against Kennedy, but wasn't LBJ the one who pushed the Civil Rights issue? In MLK's autobiography he praised the Kennedys, but said he heard the usual "the timing isn't right" when talking about making civil rights legislation.

MarkG: I would rather be a decendant of a slave here in the USA today over a black man in Africa.

What on earth made you believe that position has any relevance to anything. You are mitigating again.

Next we could debate whether we would rather be the fourteenth generation cousins of early American indentured servants, or a resident of Greenland. Apples and oranges.

Seems that the reason racism exists is the fault of paranoia and overactive imaginations. For example, wolfpack sees the American president sing Amazing Grace at a friend's funeral, and the first thing he imagines is the hate in the singer's heart. Wow, what a revealing thread this turned into!

The stranger loves to edit and speculate.....what a waste of time effort and thought. NEVER, ever have I claimed racism does not exist. It always has, and always will throughout time and cultures throughout the world. An unfortunate facet of human nature. Only a moron would disagree.

Indentured servitude was quite prevalent back in the day. Another terrible accepted practice over 150 years ago. Do those families retain bitterness? Yes, they were not property until death yet they may have been. No, I am not saying it compares equally to slavery although the servants term may well have been.

What about other cultures who practiced human ownership in the last 300 years? Are racial tensions elevated in those nations? Why is it evident in USA? Time to let it go. Nobody believes it was fair, nobody wants it to return. Forgive, and move on. Oh, I should make the disclaimer an occasional small group or individual may wish the return of slavery. Generally speaking for the overwhelmingly vast majority.

NEVER, ever have I claimed racism does not exist

And NEVER, ever have I said you claimed it does not exist. I simply point out that every time you do point out its existence, you follow up with a 'but...' and mitigate it. Just as you did in this last post. "Slavery was bad BUT there were other slaves and they don't complain".

Always mitigating. Always mitigating.

Even those who understand this dramatic history of de jure segregation may think that because these policies are those of the past there is no longer a public policy bar that prevents African Americans from moving to white neighborhoods. Thus, they say, although these policies were unfortunate, we no longer have de jure segregation. Rather, they believe, the reason we don’t have integration today is not because of government policy but because most African Americans cannot afford to live in middle class neighborhoods.

This unaffordability was also created by federal, state, and local policy that prevented African Americans in the mid-twentieth century from accumulating the capital needed to invest in home ownership in middle-class neighborhoods, and then from benefiting from the equity appreciation that followed in the ensuing decades.

Federal labor market and income policies were racially discriminatory until only a few decades ago. In consequence, most black families, who in the mid-twentieth century could have joined their white peers in the suburbs, can no longer afford to do so.

Mitigating my arse! It's finding other groups or the positives instead of dwelling on the past as if one category were victims. Numerous people's were victims in history. I have some Irish blood, shall I be pissed at UK or USA? Nope! I have Native American in me, shall I be pissed at the white man? Nope! I made my life a good life. Me, I did it. When I failed I did it too. Those I grew up with continue to have a chip on their shoulder is the roadblock for them. If we dwell on the past, mere 65 years ago were nazis. The exterminated most any race, religion, and any other type that did not fit the arian mold. Yet Germany thrives, and is foregiven.

Racism exists, I point out the current reasons on both sides. Mitigate, no. Soften, possibly. We all need to move on. Inner city poor black neighborhoods are warzones. The sooner they roll up there sleeves and get to work improving life the sooner the racism will be greatly reduced, until then......and I say greatly reduced is simple, human nature racism, sexism, religious differences, body structure, income level, and thousands of other "differences" will always present oppositions. Physical differences will always be a target for some individuals. Just as we all can see in young children.

If it makes you happy stranger, the Two of us have opposing political views. Does that make me hate you? Nope! Can you say the same? Somebody claimed to hate republicans in a past post here, sad. Anyone who hates needs to readjust themselves. See how personal bias can create levels of disgust with some personalities. Multiply that by thousands.

@TorafusuTorasan

For example, wolfpack sees the American president sing Amazing Grace at a friend's funeral, and the first thing he imagines is the hate in the singer's heart. Wow, what a revealing thread this turned into!

What is the purpose for making false statements about what I post here? Obama isn't a racist because he cares about his friend. He is a racist because he promotes racial discord and pursues government policies that discriminate based on race. Obama is racist because he doesn't believe that all people should be treated equally under the law. He injects himself into racial disputes always falsely blaming a white person for doing wrong. The Cambridge policeman was not a racist, Trevon Martin was not killed because he was black, Michael Brown was not gunned down in cold blood by a racist policeman. It goes on and on. Obama is a polarizing figure because for some reason he has deep and personal racial animosity towards white people. He even considered his own mother to be racist.

Everyone would be better off if they stopped making excuses for discrimination. Even when the truth about the President is uncomfortable to admit.

@MarkG

Time to let it go. Nobody believes it was fair, nobody wants it to return. Forgive, and move on.

Mark I am sure you already know this but the Left cannot let go of slavery because calling other people bigots is what they live for. It is how they get the people that share their need for control through centralized government elected to office. It is why every time a Conservative says that he believes that the Federal government should allow individuals and the States run their own affaires they are called racists. They will never strive to achieve a color blind society because it is not in their interests to do so. Racial and all other identity politics is the means to their ends. The removal of the rights of individuals and the transfer of those rights to the state. It worked so well in the USSR they insist that you enjoy it too. Oh and if you do not shut up and do as you are told, get ready to be blamed for some "micro-aggression" or some other such nonsense in order to keep you from expressing an opinion that is too diverse to be tolerated.

@Triumvere

the South was mainly fighting for state's rights, not for slavery. Lies, lies, lies. Old an discredited ones and that. Try harder.

I hate to quibble with you on this point but it is true that the Civil War was about state's rights. Unfortunately, the states right they fought over was for slavery. States rights were always an important concept and is the reason for the 10th Amendment to the Bill of Rights. The concept of States Rights and the other nine amendments included in the Bill or Rights was the reason that all 13 colonies joined the union following the Revolutionary War.

States' rights remain incredibly important especially in modern America which is made up of people from so many different cultural, racial, ethnic, and religious backgrounds. The use of educational indoctrination though the teachers unions and forced constraints on behavior and beliefs via a centralize government will not be able to constrain and keep cohesive such a diverse nation as America. The Left will eventually fail here as they fail everywhere because their worldview requires coercion to keep things stable. States Rights (not slavery) is a concept that should be embraced and make all feel welcome in America. Without it, America will eventually tear itself apart.

Hey Wolf, tell me all about those new voting laws.

Wolf, people want to know why Treyvon Martin was killed since he didn't have a weapon and had a legit reason to be in the neighborhood. Zimmerman didn't have the authority to detain let alone shoot anyone. But if you want to model your interpretation of the case on lunatics like the Charleston church shooter (who used the TM vs GZ uproar as a rationale), you just go ahead and do that. But don't tell us that real concerns about justice equals hate in the heart.

Torasan.

There is something called a "Citizen Arrest" which exists in most countries, you can detain an Offender till the Cops show up and take over.

Mitigating my arse!

It's entirely mitigating. You always find a reason why the racism isn't so bad, why someone else has it worse, why they should be thankful because it is/isn't ____ or because blah blah blah.

Why do any of these matter. If the racism is there, it should be dealt with. It shouldn't be left to fester because it's not so bad, or because someone else also face racism at one time, or because someone else has found a way to deal with it due to their own circumstance or whatever. It should be dealt with, because that's the right thing to do.

Racism exists, I point out the current reasons on both sides. Mitigate, no.

Every time I've said that you're mitigating it, I've pointed out how. Every single time. It's there for you and everyone to see, whether you like it or not.

Does that make me hate you? Nope! Can you say the same?

I don't hate you. I dislike and disagree with a lot of your beliefs, but I don't know you as a person but I have no feelings towards you as a person one way or the other - I don't know you.

@It's ME, but when the police advised Zimmerman not to follow Martin, they made it clear that they don't want regular citizens performing arrests because of the increased danger it poses. Making citizens arrests and then killing the detainee for resisting is not part of any person's job duties in any country, but that is what Zimmerman did. How did he avoid jail?

Torasan.

I don't know much about that situation, hence can't comment. Have done a few Citizen Arrests myself and I told people that they are under a " Citizen Arrest" most were no problem as bystanders also heard it.

The next time you are out and about arresting people, you need to seriously ask yourself if what you are doing is legal let alone safe. How do you decide who to arrest or not arrest?

Honestly I would rather be a decendant of a slave here in USA today over a black man in Africa. They do have something to be thankful for.

There are no "blacks" in Africa. Only Afrikaans in Africa. And no black American really wants to go live in Africa due to extremely low quality of living...and not to mention the freakin' bot flies, Islamists, corrupt officials, unstable governments etc (South Africa may be much more acceptable but still has a history). Only difference is my ancestors weren't given a choice to come to the US.

I think the biggest issue with the US and race relations is the underlying racism. Thankfully there are a lot more inter-racial couples and children running around so this too will eventually fade. But see how long it's taken? Its the 2000s and we're still having to deal with these issues mostly in southern states.

Anybody can say what they want, but the fact is that racist incidents have increased in the US since Obama became president. He has succeeded in dividing the country more than it was before he became president, perhaps because the expectations of Blacks, of whom 90% of them voted for him. Perhaps their expectations were not realized.

Anybody can say what they want, but the fact is that racist incidents have increased in the US since Obama became president. He has succeeded in dividing the country more than it was before he became president

Yeah! Stupid of him to Preside While Black.

a realist: He has succeeded in dividing the country more than it was before he became president

Or maybe a black President brought more of the cooks out of the woodwork.