Monday May 28, 2012

JAPAN NEWS AND DISCUSSION

Occupy protests under pressure after 4 deaths

World Nov. 12, 2011 - 03:21PM JST ( 20 )

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4

sailwindNov. 12, 2011 - 05:48PM JST

Let's hope the Media doesn't start to label this movement as "extremists".
0

Faceless1Nov. 12, 2011 - 06:39PM JST

Shootings in Oakland? Never happened before, so it must be the fault of the protests! Lulz!

While I am sad the protests cannot keep a perfect score, with so many people involved and winter coming, deaths are going to happen. People die. Its called life.

Not nearly enough have died to shut the protests down and deny them the chance to learn from any possible mistakes. If these people want to risk their own skins for the sake of the protests, its their choice and no one elses.
0

Elbuda MexicanoNov. 12, 2011 - 09:12PM JST

Oakland is not one of California's best places, quite bad actually, Richmond etc..easy to get shot but the point is, I really doubt that with so much momentum any body in government now will have the political will to try and stop these protests. RIP dead folk in protests
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WolfpackNov. 13, 2011 - 12:30AM JST

The retro-hippies have graduated from defecating on cars, property crimes, drugs, public sex, molestation of underage girls, rape, all the way up to murder. And the left was calling the Tea Party folks extreme. I suppose the Occupiers believe this is an how they can get back at 'The Man' for all of their injustices against them.
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TheQuestionNov. 13, 2011 - 06:05AM JST

Put a lot of angry, unemployed city people into camps, throw in a few drug users, add a couple people with mental health problems, and then have them live in tents in public parks for an extended period of time. Yeah, no way this could go wrong. And with winter coming theres no possible way it could get significantly worse.

It was alright during the late summer/early fall when temps weren't that bad but now that tensions are starting to flare up and the thermometer is starting to go down the protesters are going to need to either disband or get a hell of a lot more organized. Having people die of drug overdoses and propane leaks isn't exactly condusive to pulic saftey.

The deaths come after a 53-year-old man was found dead inside a tent at the Occupy New Orleans encampment on Tuesday. The Times-Picayune newspaper reported that he appeared to have been dead for two days.

I thought these camps were supposed to represent people banding together and the strength of community, nobody thought to check to make sure the guy was alright for two days?
-1

Faceless1Nov. 13, 2011 - 07:27AM JST

Put a lot of angry, unemployed city people into camps, throw in a few drug users, add a couple people with mental health problems, and then have them live in tents in public parks for an extended period of time.

And you get a microcasm of America today. Some people just don't want to admit that others might have legit complaints.

nobody thought to check to make sure the guy was alright for two days?

Why didn't you? You are the one who is so sure he had friends or that anybody knew who he was. You don't just walking into strange people's tents. And if you do and they are lying there snug in their sleeping bag, everything neat, you assume they are sleeping.

Now here is where you or Wolfpack suggest that things were probably stolen from his tent while he lie there dead, because it seems you two will say just about anything except admit the protests might some justification.
-1

TheQuestionNov. 13, 2011 - 08:20AM JST

And you get a microcasm of America today. Some people just don't want to admit that others might have legit complaints.

Violent crime at 30 year lows despite unemployment and economic problems. And considering that less than 40% of americans support the protesters I can, at the very least, say that the occupiers are not a fair representation of the U.S just as the tea partiers are not.

I can respect complaints, I have a few of my own, but the unfocused method by which they voice their concerns is one I do not support.

Why didn't you?

I don't live there. But even with my chaotic living patterns I at least know who my neighbors are for all my working locations and for my primary residence.

You are the one who is so sure he had friends or that anybody knew who he was. You don't just walking into strange people's tents. And if you do and they are lying there snug in their sleeping bag, everything neat, you assume they are sleeping.

It's not that cold yet and he's been dead for about 2 days. And if nobody's checking these tents for health and saftey it's all the more reason to have the tents removed all together.

Now here is where you or Wolfpack suggest that things were probably stolen from his tent while he lie there dead, because it seems you two will say just about anything except admit the protests might some justification.

I don't speak for other posters and they do not speak for me. I have never implied that and I have even agreed that some of the protestors concerns are legitimate. I have voiced my disagreement with how they present their arguments and their method of making their concerns known.
-1

Faceless1Nov. 13, 2011 - 09:13AM JST

Violent crime at 30 year lows despite unemployment and economic problems.

Yet America remains violence capital of the first world.

And considering that less than 40% of americans support the protesters I can, at the very least, say that the occupiers are not a fair representation of the U.S just as the tea partiers are not.

Support and representation are two different things. It is perfectly possible to loathe a fair representation of oneself.

but the unfocused method by which they voice their concerns is one I do not support.

You would not support them in any case, so stop toying with us. If they were more organized you would declare them a coup threat.

It's not that cold yet and he's been dead for about 2 days.

Says the man not sleeping outside. Its cold enough to die of exposure. It appears this man died of carbon monoxide poisoning.

And if nobody's checking these tents for health and saftey it's all the more reason to have the tents removed all together.

Just makes no sense. You could say the same thing about any neighborhood in the country. People die. A couple die and suddenly you are all for shutting them down? I think its clear your sentiment is not actually about having no spine, its simple oppostion.

I have never implied that and I have even agreed that some of the protestors concerns are legitimate.

For example?
-1

WolfpackNov. 13, 2011 - 01:40PM JST

Now here is where you or Wolfpack suggest that things were probably stolen from his tent while he lie there dead, because it seems you two will say just about anything except admit the protests might some justification.

Some of their complaints are legit but most are not. It seems their biggest complaint is that they don't have as much money as wealthy people do. Forget the fact that some of them - like Michael Moore - are millionaires themselves. Sitting around in a tent in the middle of a city park and asking the government for a handout isn't going to help much with class envy. Nor will it pay off the huge amount in loads that they voluntarily agreed to.

Is is because of the government's constant attempts at micromanage the economy with poorly considered regulations and convoluted and corrupt tax policy that has caused unemployment to be so high and prevented businesses from hiring. Government allows the financial markets to be manipulated by mandating that Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae make bad home loans. The American economy has been stuck in a cycle of boom and bust for two decades due to idiotic policies like this. Add in Congress's crony capitalism and the Feds overzealous desire to print money to inflate away the nations economic problems and you are left with nothing but class envy and fear. They protestors should be "Occupying the White House" not Wall Street.
-2

TheQuestionNov. 13, 2011 - 01:48PM JST

Support and representation are two different things. It is perfectly possible to loathe a fair representation of oneself.

But they aren't a representation just as the tea party isn't a representation. If it were a fair representation of the american populace they would be more concerned with finding a job than camping out in a park. Novelty wears off really fast here and empathy goes even faster.

You would not support them in any case, so stop toying with us. If they were more organized you would declare them a coup threat.

Thanks for that sweeping generalization of my views on the subject, really appreciate it.

Just makes no sense. You could say the same thing about any neighborhood in the country. People die. A couple die and suddenly you are all for shutting them down? I think its clear your sentiment is not actually about having no spine, its simple oppostion.

Most people aren't living on public property where adults and children may come and go on a regular basis. And yes people die, but I'm hard pressed to think of the last time one died of monoxide poisoning in my local park, or the last one to overdose in a tent outside my workplace.

For example?

I strongly opposed the government bailouts. I was against the war in Iraq. I don't believe that the government should be able to use public money to pick winners in the business system. I believe that lobbyists play to great a role in the legislative process. See, theres a couple. I'm sure I could find a couple more if I wanted to sift through the forums of their websites.

I have stated, from day one, that some of their concerns are legitimate and that I disagreed with both their method and their solutions. The protesters and I agree on this much, overpowered buisiness leaders are using the government as a weapon against the people. Where we differ is in how to solve this problem. The occupiers want to make the weapon so big that business can't control it, I want to make the weapons smaller.
0

SuperLibNov. 13, 2011 - 02:40PM JST

Wolfpack: Is is because of the government's constant attempts at micromanage the economy with poorly considered regulations and convoluted and corrupt tax policy that has caused unemployment to be so high and prevented businesses from hiring. Government allows the financial markets to be manipulated by mandating that Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae make bad home loans.

You are mixing and matching here. The blame for the crash can be spread around to a lot of different places. If you choose to focus on the government it's most likely because you want to criticize the government. The problem, in my opinion, was that the concept of risk went out the window. People made so much for so long that they simply believed they could not lose. Investments (especially real estate portfolios) kept hitting home runs and things that seemed risky before no longer seemed risky and it turned into a process of simply filling out forms. The borrowers are to blame for getting themselves into the situation, the banks are to blame for simply wanting to collect fees and pass off loans, the investment banks are to blame for the same reason, and the government is to blame for relaxing standards on lending. Everyone had their hand in the pot.

TheQuestion: I have stated, from day one, that some of their concerns are legitimate and that I disagreed with both their method and their solutions.

I can agree with that. It's hard to support a movement when even they don't know what the message is. But I think over time they will be able to deliver a clearer message. What concerns me is the ability for people to manipulate markets since they are able to create very large pools of capital and move quickly. They don't mind putting people out of work if it means their personal investment strategy profits. In the end it forces everyone to be financial wizards or be at the mercy of the large funds who can wipe out wealth overnight. Some people just want to be teachers, construction workers, engineers, etc. Having their future financial stability resting on the backs of a very small group of people who are not invested in their investments scares me. It seems that getting an education, getting a job, paying your taxes, and keeping your debt down doesn't amount to what it used to when others can cause so much harm so quickly.
0

WilliBNov. 13, 2011 - 04:44PM JST

The liberal tea party movement is racking up an impressive track record.
0

WolfpackNov. 14, 2011 - 01:00AM JST

@SuperLib

You are mixing and matching here. The blame for the crash can be spread around to a lot of different places. If you choose to focus on the government it's most likely because you want to criticize the government.

The actions of individual borrowers and banks were a direct result of the loosening of regulations on the part of the government. The government gave it's blessing and subsidiy via Fannie and Freddie. Ironically, it is the Democrats that pushed for loosening lending rules while Republicans warned against it. The governments loosening of lending rules - cause - led to excesses that followed - effect. The goal of promoting home ownership is laudable but not at the expense of throwing out common sense risk management. It is amazing how common sense can be overwhelmed when placed up against Rep. Franks incessant charges of discrimination and racism. No one wants to be called a racist so it is difficult for politicians to make the case that it is not racism, but simply good business sense and in the interest of all not to promote risky business practices.
0

TheQuestionNov. 14, 2011 - 01:14AM JST

In the end it forces everyone to be financial wizards or be at the mercy of the large funds who can wipe out wealth overnight. Some people just want to be teachers, construction workers, engineers, etc.

If this recession has taught us anything it's wanting to just make an honest living is a luxury. I mean that. How many people would have invested in Enron if they had read through the minutes or researched any of the corrupt booking practices they used, the warning signs were there for those who looked. Would the tax code be so intimidating if the average person took some time out of their week to take a tax class? I doubt it.

There isn't even an excuse to be uninformed anymore. You can get used textbooks online for almost nothing, there are thousands of database sites and financial tracking services to help you invest, and people still elect to sacrifice control over their accounts.

Having their future financial stability resting on the backs of a very small group of people who are not invested in their investments scares me. It seems that getting an education, getting a job, paying your taxes, and keeping your debt down doesn't amount to what it used to when others can cause so much harm so quickly.

Yes, but I'm less concerned with the large capital pools (which we've had for decades in good times and bad) and more concerned with what causes the poor investments. The collapse of the banking industry can be traced to the collapse of the housing market and the rise of risky trading habits, both of which were driven by the U.S government, the FED, and federal-esque entities such as Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and Sallie Mae.

In an ordinary market where interest rates float at market levels investors are generally risk averse and avoid debt financing when possible. Artificially depressed interest rates drove up speculation and poor financing decisions and FDIC insured banks used the low interest rates to play with people's money even more than they had. This crisis is the direct result of a mass exodus from personal responcibility, playing with other people's money with no risk, and willfull ignorance of apparant warning signs.
-2

Faceless1Nov. 14, 2011 - 07:14AM JST

Some of their complaints are legit but most are not. It seems their biggest complaint is that they don't have as much money as wealthy people do.

How do you figure that? "We are the 99 percent!" has been chanted and written on signs all over. By your count, are 99 percent of Americans all middle class and poor, and only 1 percent rich?? Can you count?

Forget the fact that some of them - like Michael Moore - are millionaires themselves.

Why forget it? Everybody seems perfectly aware of it but you who can't seem to understand the 99 percent includes a buttload of millionaires. There is rich and there is super rich. If you ever learn the difference, you might actually be able to post as if you know something about the movement.

Sitting around in a tent in the middle of a city park and asking the government for a handout isn't going to help much with class envy.

What a complete strawman! I can only imagine you are projecting your own envy onto others. Further, you earlier said most of their complaints are not legit, but you put forth only two complaints that you completely made up almost from scratch! No, they are not asking for handouts and no, they are not complaining that they are not rich. Do you watch Youtube or do you watch the wall behind your computer screen and make crap up? Don't answer! Its obvious!

Nor will it pay off the huge amount in loads that they voluntarily agreed to.

As someone who paid off his student loans early, I am here to tell you, there are things that happened with my loan payments that I never agreed to. As if saddling 18 year olds who never had a full time job with heaps of debt is good policy anyway!
0

SuperLibNov. 14, 2011 - 03:31PM JST

Wolfpack: The actions of individual borrowers and banks were a direct result of the loosening of regulations on the part of the government. The government gave it's blessing and subsidiy via Fannie and Freddie. Ironically, it is the Democrats that pushed for loosening lending rules while Republicans warned against it. The governments loosening of lending rules - cause - led to excesses that followed - effect. The goal of promoting home ownership is laudable but not at the expense of throwing out common sense risk management. It is amazing how common sense can be overwhelmed when placed up against Rep. Franks incessant charges of discrimination and racism. No one wants to be called a racist so it is difficult for politicians to make the case that it is not racism, but simply good business sense and in the interest of all not to promote risky business practices.

I'm still not buying the argument that you can exclude everyone from blame but the government. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac can set the tone with their lending requirements but at the end of the day they only secure half the loans and they don't make people sign on the dotted line. People and banks are still responsible for making sound financial decisions. You also have risky financial instruments like derivatives as well as unsecured debt which skyrocketed. No one forced AIG to only take one position. Just about everyone was working under the assumption that housing prices would continue to rise indefinitely.

In your previous comment you said that the recovery was over-regulated. Are you saying we went from a period of too few regulations to too many?
0

SuperLibNov. 14, 2011 - 03:38PM JST

TheQuestion: There isn't even an excuse to be uninformed anymore. You can get used textbooks online for almost nothing, there are thousands of database sites and financial tracking services to help you invest, and people still elect to sacrifice control over their accounts.

Some people just aren't interested in being a financial experts. Their funds are handled by people who are supposed to be the financial experts and a lot of people are satisfied with that. If you track your own investments and choose everything carefully it's because that's a hobby for you and you've chosen to spend time doing it. I don't think someone is irresponsible by handing their funds over to a manager that they've done their homework on.

What worries me is a financial system based on speculation instead of fundamentals.
2

unreconstructedNov. 14, 2011 - 06:42PM JST

faceless

As someone who paid off his student loans early, I am here to tell you, there are things that happened with my loan payments that I never agreed to. As if saddling 18 year olds who never had a full time job with heaps of debt is good policy anyway!

Take some responsibility for your decisions. You saddled yourself with debt. But then folks like you are why the Democrats took over the student loan racket this last year and basically nationalized it. They are going to do to young Americans hoping to acquire a college education what they did via F Mac and F Mae to millions of home buyers. Dems understand all too well the secret of stealing power: if you want more of something - divorce, out of wedlock births, debt to justify creation of fiat currency - just subsidize it. They talk about college education for all but what they want is just more brainwashed, state-edumacated adult children in debt upon graduation to their Daddy, Big Gubmint.That is why they also oppose charter schools and home-schooling.Trouble for America and the world is that student loan default in the US has jumped sharply in the ruinous Pelosi-Obama economy, and the whole racket, a replica of the subprime market in many ways, now approaches one trillion ( 1,000,000,000,000) dollars. That is roughly the GDP of Canada.
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Faceless1Nov. 14, 2011 - 09:47PM JST

unreconstructedNov. 14, 2011 - 06:42PM JST

Would be an interesting post if it contained some links proving the democrat conspiracy theories. Yes, I sense of lot of the profit motive and brainwashing desire in the system, I just can't imagine why you think its so strictly partisan.

Take some responsibility for your decisions. You saddled yourself with debt.

Do you think you could explain to us all what part of me paying my student loans off early you failed to understand? Then you could get into what part of the deal changing without my agreement confused you.
2

unreconstructedNov. 14, 2011 - 11:35PM JST

7 dead nationwide at these loser rallies. Hundreds arrested. The Portland group had grenades and firearms, in preparation for a battle with local police - in one of the most 'liberal' cities in America mind you. There have been numerous rapes at the Occupy sites. NY cops had accounts of male 'protesters' being raped. Basically each 'camp' provides a picture of the America we would have if 'liberals' ruled. I thought "Hope and Change" was fatuous beyond belief but filthy, disease-ridden drug-addled lefties shrieking 'We are the 99 percent!' puts us in whole new territory. I chuckle now to think of the sentimental Marxist retreads who tried to tell me a thousand cities worldwide would follow the lead of these clowns.