Oklahoma student arrested in alleged school massacre plot

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  • 0

    smithinjapan

    This kid is going to take the full brunt of the law in the wake of what happened in Connecticut.

  • 1

    globalwatcher

    If you are interested in gun contro to stop this madness , I encourage everyone to write to your congressional members who are receiving campaign fund from NRA. Thank you.

    National Rifle Assn: All Campaign Fund Recipients

    http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/recips.php?cycle=2012&id=D000000082

  • -1

    The_Pope

    When a drunk driver kills someone, we blame the driver not the car. But when a person kills someone with a gun, we focus on the gun -- I cannot understand the logic. Apparently in Connecticut the shooter walked out of a gun store when he was told there would be a three day wait for a background check -- in some ways the system worked. Where he obtained the weapons is probably the focus of the police investigation...

  • 1

    smithinjapan

    The_Pope: "I cannot understand the logic."

    That's because that tree is blocking your view of the forest. I don't know a single person who does NOT blame the shooter in the recent massacre, do you? But I do know that a whole lot of people rightfully point out that the lack of gun control in the US and the ease at which someone can get a gun -- or several guns -- exponentially increases the potential for death and destruction whereas it would be far less with the gun(s) removed.

    As for your comparison to someone killing others with a car and society not blaming the car, tell me, what is the primary function of an automobile? how about a kitchen knife for that matter? Now tell me the primary function of hand guns and other automatic weapons.

    The kid in question in this article was stopped before he could act, fortunately, but mark my words we'll see another mass shooting in no time at all -- it's daily news in the US.

  • 2

    Virtuoso

    I hate to sound cynical but in two weeks -- the attention span of most Americans -- the mass media will have latched on to some other story, biding its time until the next mass shooting incident.

  • 2

    Peter Payne

    I must be tired. I read this as "Okinawa" not "Oklahoma." Think I'll unplug for a while.

  • 2

    cwhite

    at least he was extremely dumb

  • 1

    Elbuda Mexicano

    These people in Oklahoma were extremely luck! But sorry, you can only get lucky so often until your so called luck runs out and you end up real, real dead!

  • 2

    Thunderbird2

    When a drunk driver kills someone, we blame the driver not the car. But when a person kills someone with a gun, we focus on the gun -- I cannot understand the logic.

    Guns are designed with one purpose in mind - to kill an enemy. Cars are a mode of transport. I think that's the difference. If you own a gun it is assumed you are prepared to use it, to kill. No-one is trained to maim with a gun, but to go for the biggest target area, the torso... ergo, the gun is designed to kill, nothing else.

  • 1

    Noliving

    Apparently in Connecticut the shooter walked out of a gun store when he was told there would be a three day wait for a background check -- in some ways the system worked. Where he obtained the weapons is probably the focus of the police investigation...

    Pope that is not at all how he got the guns.

    As for your comparison to someone killing others with a car and society not blaming the car, tell me, what is the primary function of an automobile? how about a kitchen knife for that matter? Now tell me the primary function of hand guns and other automatic weapons.

    But that begs the question though (god I love saying that phrase) at what death amount do you say that something thats primary function that is not for killing needs to be outlawed? Is private ownership of automobiles really necessary? What if instead we took all the money that private owners spent on cars and put that as tax to pay for public mass transportation like trains and buses and airplanes. Do you really need a private car when there are alternatives that will achieve the same thing with substantially less death. If I'm not mistaken smith you yourself don't own a car, your spouse does though correct?

    Same with a metal kitchen knife, at what point do you say we are going to outlaw the ownership and production of all metal knives and instead use plastic knives/utensils. Plastic utensils for the most part cut food just as well a metal but are substantially less lethal.

    Just curious but would you agree with banning metal knives and instead replacing them with plastic knives?

    The primary function of a hand gun is to be used defensively, it is a weapon of last resort really, they are not very accurate except for close range. Primary function of an automatic firearm is to automatically chamber the next round for the person operating the firearm, that is what makes them an automatic, that is what gives them the nick name auto loaders.

  • -1

    globalwatcher

    NolivingDec. 17, 2012 - 04:57AM JST

    I always respect your pro-gun position, however this time a majority of American voters is not buying any pro-gun position.. This is a tipping point in US gun history. I do not know where you are, but you are disconnected to the reality what's going on here in US..The American public uproar for gun control is beyond your imagination today. That's all we hear and it is not dying down. I see there will be a big gun control legislation on horizon.

  • -3

    Outta here

    Noliving

    But that begs the question though (god I love saying that phrase) at what death amount do you say that something thats primary function that is not for killing needs to be outlawed? Is private ownership of automobiles really necessary? What if instead we took all the money that private owners spent on cars and put that as tax to pay for public mass transportation like trains and buses and airplanes. Do you really need a private car when there are alternatives that will achieve the same thing with substantially less death. If I'm not mistaken smith you yourself don't own a car, your spouse does though correct?

    The big difference is a car is not built with the intended purpose of causing massive trauma and death by its inherent design. A gun is designed with one and only one function in mind and that is to kill. Yes someone can use a car to kill people. You can look at any object in life and it can be used to kill but very few if any of those items are designed around the best way to kill someone like a gun is. So to even compare banning cars to banning guns is well at best a stretch and at worst in the light of this despicable act its a perfect example as to why gun control needs to be put in place. In the light of this tragedy l would say anyone that is arguing the merits of guns needs a mental health checkup because not only is it sick but its highly offensive. Maybe if you are so adamant that guns are good you can go sell your case to the families of these poor people who died and see their response.

    Same with a metal kitchen knife, at what point do you say we are going to outlaw the ownership and production of all metal knives and instead use plastic knives/utensils. Plastic utensils for the most part cut food just as well a metal but are substantially less lethal.

    Partly right there, at some point you need to look at banning people walking around the streets or in public with knives. In the home fair enough there is a use for them, in public why does someone need a knife? The moment a knife is taken into a public area it stops being a utensil and starts being a weapon. Treat it as such and treat the person as such and it goes a long way to fixing the issues.

    The primary function of a hand gun is to be used defensively, it is a weapon of last resort really, they are not very accurate except for close range.

    Rubbish! The primary function of a hand gun is to kill. Pure and simple. To say a handgun is purely defensive is rubbish, handguns are extremely effective weapons in close range environments like buildings, vehicles and crowds because they are easy to hide, manoeuvrable, and can fire large numbers of rounds at fast rates. And in a confined space they can be very accurate, so lm sorry but your statement is nonesense.

    I find it disturbing and sickening that in the light of this tragedy you are here trying to defend guns and gun ownership and shift the blame for the fact that 20 little kids and several adults are dead because a man used a gun to murder them. You are trying to downplay this incident by saying he could have used other weapons, well he didn't he used guns, he used semi automatic pistols. Weapons that in a sane country he should not and would not have had access too.

    Why do private citizens need handguns let alone semi auto's. Why do private citizens need semi auto rifles of the type used in the last massacre. Maybe this will be a wake up call to the US (i doubt it though) that these types of weapons have no place in the public arena. That "self defence" isnt an excuse to be armed better than some soldiers, that "hunting" isnt an excuse to own a rifle that some militaries use. Its time that the US government and the state governments got serious on gun laws. Because unless they do these tragedies will continue to occur and as long as they do nothing then they are as guilty as the shooters.

  • 2

    Triumvere

    You know, we have regulations on cars. On how they are designed, on how they are used, and on who can use them. If car accidents occur, and they will, its perfectly reasonable to sit down an evaluate how effective those regulations are, and to adjust them appropriately. Why should guns be different?

    Note to moderators: I am reposting this. It is not off-topic, it is about entirely about gun control. To make it that much more explicit, I have added the last line.

  • 0

    Noliving

    Partly right there, at some point you need to look at banning people walking around the streets or in public with knives. In the home fair enough there is a use for them, in public why does someone need a knife? The moment a knife is taken into a public area it stops being a utensil and starts being a weapon. Treat it as such and treat the person as such and it goes a long way to fixing the issues.

    So you would be for banning the further production and ownership of metal knives when there are plastic knives/utensils that do the job pretty much just as well but are less lethal that way you don't even have to really worry about someone walking around with a knife ever again. See the beauty of banning metal utensils and replacing it with plastic utensils is that you don't even have to worry about someone taking it into a public area while at the same time still enjoy your food.

    Rubbish! The primary function of a hand gun is to kill. Pure and simple. To say a handgun is purely defensive is rubbish, handguns are extremely effective weapons in close range environments like buildings, vehicles and crowds because they are easy to hide, maneuverable, and can fire large numbers of rounds at fast rates. And in a confined space they can be very accurate, so lm sorry but your statement is nonesense.

    Kill in what capacity offensively or defensively? So in other words a defensive weapon they are not designed to launch assaults or be used offensively. How many soldiers or SWAT do you see charging the battlefield or a building or a car or a plane or a train or whatever environment with hand guns as their primary weapon? Keep in mind that just because something is defensive doesn't mean it can be extremely lethal.

    Shotguns, rifles(bull pups, assault rifles, or just plain old short barrel rifles) sub-machine guns are all extremely effective weapons in close range environments like buildings, vehicles(depends on the vehicle), crowds. Those guns are not as maneuverable but quite frankly that hasn't been a problem for soldiers or law enforcement or easy to hide but you can get past that by just putting them into a guitar case or a duffel bag or wrapped in a blanket and they can fire large number of rounds at fast rates.

    Confined space doesn't increase the accuracy of a firearm, range and barrel length does. If the target is in a confined space at 25 or 50 yards you are going to be missing quite a bit with a hand gun, especially if you try to rapidly fire it.

    • Moderator

      Cars are not relevant to this discussion.

  • -1

    Noliving

    I always respect your pro-gun position, however this time a majority of American voters is not buying any pro-gun position.. This is a tipping point in US gun history. I do not know where you are, but you are disconnected to the reality what's going on here in US..The American public uproar for gun control is beyond your imagination today. That's all we hear and it is not dying down. I see there will be a big gun control legislation on horizon.

    I live in the US, I'm aware of what is going on especially with Dianne Feinstein. It is not beyond my imagination I'm living in it. Considering past mass shooting incidents that is all you hear about for the next several days if not weeks and it almost always if not always doesn't die down just two days after the incident, not saying it should. Although the uproar is stronger compared to past incidents, you can tell by the fact the NRA has pulled their Facebook and twitter accounts.

  • -1

    Herve Nmn L'Eisa

    " however this time a majority of American voters is not buying any pro-gun position."

    That would exclude the majority of gun owners and members of the NRA, and large numbers of veterans and law enforcement. So, not an actual majority.

    Try repealing the Second Amendment. Good luck with that. You'll have another civil war on your hands.

  • -1

    Noliving

    Keep in mind that just because something is defensive doesn't mean it can be extremely lethal.

    It is suppose to be:

    Keep in mind that just because something is defensive doesn't mean it can't be extremely lethal.

  • -1

    Outta here

    Noliving

    Kill in what capacity offensively or defensively?

    Does it matter whether it is used to kill offensively or defensively the simple fact remains it is designed to KILL!

    So in other words a defensive weapon they are not designed to launch assaults or be used offensively. How many soldiers or SWAT do you see charging the battlefield or a building or a car or a plane or a train or whatever environment with hand guns as their primary weapon? Keep in mind that just because something is defensive doesn't mean it can be extremely lethal.

    Regardless of whether the pistol is the primary weapon of a trained military or law enforcement person or their secondary weapon is irrelevant. What is relevant is why should the general public have access to these weapons. What is the justification. For having them??? Oh l know the old "self defence" argument. Sorry but that doesn't wash. If certain guns where made illegal and others where harder to acquire then what do you think would happen? Suddenly your US would be invaded?

    Confined space doesn't increase the accuracy of a firearm, range and barrel length does.

    No but confined space, crowds and a rapid fire hand gun certainly increases the chances of a high body count. Doesn't take a genius to work that out. And someone walking around with a rifle or a blanket hiding a gun is going to arouse suspicion. Well at least in most places it would.

    If the target is in a confined space at 25 or 50 yards you are going to be missing quite a bit with a hand gun, especially if you try to rapidly fire it.

    Most handguns have a range out to 50 meters. Only a novice would rapid fire a hand gun due to the climb it causes. However steady single shots you would still empty a 15 round mag in seconds and still hit many targets. And again in a confined space your chances increase dramatically. So please don't try to downplay the ultimate issue and that is why people should be carrying around guns in public.

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