Olympic torch concludes topsy-turvy tour of San Francisco

Thursday 10th April, 05:33 AM JST

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Scrote at 11:11 AM JST - 10th April

Crustacean is right (despite using the Dutch "u" instead of the English "you"): boycotting the olympics won't really help matters. We should boycott Chinese-made goods instead.
notimpressed at 11:34 AM JST - 10th April

boycotting goods never works, because noone even knows you are trying to say something. Olympics has always been about politics ever since it included more than one nation. In fact, back in the old days, it was poilitical too, a way to show off your superiority. I dont know how much help all this will do for tibet, but it sure is getting up the CCPs nose, so it seems to be working in some respect. The fact that its getting a bite shows that the protests are serving a purpose. And the fact that the CCP made promises along the lines of improving thier practices, and attitudes towards human(and animal) rights, so that they would be allowed to host the olympics. Now that they've got the Olympics they just do what they usually do anyway. The IOC should be pissed that they didnt stick to the promises. China itself has boycotted previous olympic games for political reasons before, so where do they get off saying that the Olympics is not a platfrom for politics? I can see it now, they are going to get some foreign nationals protest in Beijing during the games, the local forces will lose thier rag and shoot or beat the crap out of them, and then all hell will break loose. I dont know if it will help anything, true, it might even make it worse, and make China more beligerant than ever. But it seems like the only way to voice distaste over the CCPs actions, outside of threats, trade sanctions, and actual intervention, which I also doubt would do much good for anyone. So scrote, im not sure, but you may be right, just for this reason: NO matter what anyone says, China is still going to stick fingers in ears and go "lalalalalalala"
realist at 12:15 PM JST - 10th April

I salute the brave protestors in San Francisco, who once again prevented the Communist Chinese Government from pretending that they were normal. Tibet and the Tibetan people must be set free from the shackles of Chinese rule. The Communist unelected and undemocratic quango Government of Beijing must realise that the world is no longer going to stand idly by and pretend that all is normal and well while they continue to deprive their own citizens, and those of the people of Tibet, of basic human rights. They are thugs, and I am disappointed that the US Government allowed their Blue-suited thug patrol to raom the streets of San Francisco. I cant wait for the flame to arrive in nagano so that I can join the protestors there, too.
Betzee at 01:36 PM JST - 10th April

The protesters weren't simply addressing, or dismissing, the plight of Tibetans. Among their ranks were others with grievances against the PRC:

Festooned in maroon robes, in honor of the Buddhist monks silenced in Burma, the excited and angry activists wore yellow banners pinned to their robes that read "China's policy = Burma's misery," and chanted, "Boycott the Olympics" and "Free, free, free Burma." "China sells billions of dollars of arms to Burma, while people struggle to live even hand to mouth daily," Than said. Protesting in front of the Olympic flame was his chance to bring Burma's plight to the televised world.

Wearing a robe around his neck like a cape, the charismatic Than caucused with the pro-Burma leaders, plotting how to evade the cops lining the route in front of them when the torch passed. At 1:30 p.m., after the time the torch was scheduled to leave AT&T Park, protesters surged into the street, past the police barricades, marching and chanting, euphoric that they'd evaded the cops, and blocked the torch's route. [But they didn't...]

"We felt it was in everyone's best interest that we augment the route," San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom told the San Francisco Chronicle. "I believe people were afforded the right to protest and support the torch. You saw that in the streets. They were not denied the ability to protest."...

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/04/10/torch/

Balancing order with the right to dissent is an ongoing act which nations like China don't have to deal with. Even in the most open, pluralistic societies tolerance for dissent is never absolute. If it were, after all, there would be little to forestall anarchy.

Though there was some grumbling about the game of hide-and-seek with the torch, I think the city made the right call given the numbers of protestors crammed into a small space that was shared with those for whom it was a normal work day.
curlygene at 02:22 PM JST - 10th April

qmyqmyqmy,

Tibetans are Chinese though.

Most Tibetans would disagree with you, I think. This is why they are protesting. Calling a group Chinese just because they were invaded 50 or so years ago would be the same as calling Chinese Japanese for the same reason, wouldn't it?
apecNetworks at 02:37 PM JST - 10th April

Rogge is to give more details at a news conference Friday, when the IOC’s executive board is to discuss Friday whether to end the remaining international legs of the relay after San Francisco because of widespread protest. The torch is scheduled to travel to Buenos Aires, Argentina, and then to a dozen other countries before arriving in China on May 4. The Olympics begin Aug. 8.

I personally would like to see the torch relay continue to see to what extent these protests extend from the G-8. The riots and protests does not seem as it appears, b/c I received 60-90 days prior warning to this from Agency personnel - unusual, and it has forced me to get my copy of the Pentagon Papers out.
gmygmygmy at 03:05 PM JST - 10th April

"Boycott the Olympics" and "Free, free, free Burma."

Betzee, Burma has much less oil than Sudan, so the west is not interested.
apecNetworks at 03:32 PM JST - 10th April

If anyone is interested in background to US/Tibet relations, this book goes into an aspect of it that may still be relevant. As stated several months ago, all analyzes' indicators point to the Indian Ocean, so for Tibet to crop up is no surprise. This is a book I am planning to read in the future.

The CIA’s Secret War in Tibet+

http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/concia.html
tako10 at 04:24 PM JST - 10th April

Among the supporters of those pro-Tibet protestors included the Tibet Justice Center (aka International Committee of Lawyers for Tibet) in Berkeley CA, which is one of the oldest Tibet support group in the United States. They provide detailed report of human right abuses in Tibet that caused the grievances of the Tibetan protestors in San Francisco. Their investigations revealed "large-scale introduction of prostitution in Tibet in recent years, which is having a devastating effect on Tibetan culture." The report says "There is evidence that condoned or supported prostitution is being instituted in areas with great cultural or religious significance for Tibetans, such as the streets immediately below the Potala Palace in Lhasa."

http://www.tibetjustice.org/reports/women/v.html

This type of insult to cultural and historical significance always causes utmost outrage to the local people. It is worth recalling that an opening of an American coffee shop in the Chinese Imperial Palace (Forbidden City) caused massive anger in Beijing.

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/FOOD/news/12/11/china.starbucks.reut/

Given the absence of democracy in Tibet, those protests are the only means to make a political stand for the protestors. If this means of venting Tibetan’s anger were denied, it might cause more serious disaster in Lhasa.
mheimendinger at 04:31 PM JST - 10th April

I love writers who don't bother to read what they've written:

At least one torchbearer decided to show her support for Tibetan independence during her moment in the spotlight. After being passed the Olympic flame, Majora Carter pulled out a small Tibetan flag that she had hidden in her shirt sleeve.

“The Chinese security and cops were on me like white on rice, it was no joke,” said Carter, 41, who runs a nonprofit organization in New York. “They pulled me out of the race, and then San Francisco police officers pushed me back into the crowd on the side of the street.”

Although torchbearers in other cities have complained of aggressive behavior by paramilitary police in blue track suits sent by Beijing to guard the Olympic flame, there was no evidence of problems in California.
Betzee at 09:06 PM JST - 10th April

Once again the Chinese seem to have shot themselves in the foot. For the 2008 Olympics, Beijing has extended the torch's tour to its longest journey in history as a way to symbolize China's arrival as a nation of world-class stature in the twenty first century. Instead it's given the regime's critics around the world the opportunity to shine the spotlight on exactly the things China would like to hide.
gmygmygmy at 10:14 PM JST - 10th April

The torch relay binds Chinese both at home and abroad tigher together
Hikozaemon at 10:36 PM JST - 10th April

Those two groups of Chinese people fighting each other in San Francisco look very tightly bound together.

Peace
apecNetworks at 05:39 AM JST - 11th April

Looks good, my previous posts for the past few months is being confirmed and the info I am receiving from US Agencies is being interpreted fairly correct. Target: Indian Ocean

http://www.atimes.com/Atimes/China/JC26Ad02.Html

Richard M Bennett, intelligence and security consultant is a REAL solid source.

IOC should not regret giving the 2008 Olympics to the PRC, the game plan in play has adapted to include the Olympics b/c it exists.
Betzee at 07:21 PM JST - 15th April

San Francisco had the benefit of seeing what could happen and planned accordingly. The PR battle between the Chinese and the Tibetans continues in their respective efforts to portray themselves as the victims and the other side as the agressor.

To this end, a doctored photo of the presumably ethnic Tibet protestor who grabbed the handicapped torch bearer in Paris in now circulating online. It shows him tra-la-la on a trail in an obviously pro-China crowd in the garb he would later be photographed in engaging in violence in an action wildly condemned.

As an American, it amused me that the same folks with excoriated Dan Rather for being duped by forgeries bought into this hook, line, and sinker and, moreover, condemned the press for not picking up on it (since it pointed the finger back at the Chinese).

Watch out for more disinformation, from both sides. The stakes go ever higher as the torch relay winds toward India and ultimately through Tibet itself.