Pakistan arrests American-born al-Qaida spokesman
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41 Comments
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0
kinniku
Conspiracy freaks have been suggesting that somehow this man was proof of some plot connecting al-Quaeda to the CIA or whatever. Oops! Guess they were wrong again!
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Odogma
Don't send him to Club Gitmo. Keep him in a Pakistani prison.
0
TheQuestion
Unless we can guarantee an execution. Which I highly doubt.
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SushiSake3
The Obama Administration's done more to win the GWOT in 13 months than GWB and co. did in 5 years.
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Odogma
Looks like someone - - not just Obama - - missed or is doing their best to ignore the Iraq election news...
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kinniku
Hey, he was caught on Obama's watch. Credit where credit is due. Of course, it was Pakistan that arrested him. Good on them.
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sabiwabi
You can always count on these fake Muslims to say the "right" things. Just like I recently saw on CNN, a camera following two evil-looking "Muslims" saying things like "Israel should be wiped off the map", and later in the report the journalist mentions that these two guys were Israeli Jews who converted to Islam! How predictable!"
I suspect he is a fake Muslim, considering that he is the grandson of member of the Board of Directors for the Anti Defamation League!
0
Beelzebub
He deserves the same fate as Lord Haw-Haw (who was hanged in Wandsworth Prison on 3 January, 1946).
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Gurukun
Wasn't there an American that was training with AlQ. captured when the U.S. invaded Iraq? Wasn't he charged with Treason too?
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timorborder
Let's hope there are no double standards here based on citizenship like happened with the American chappy who was training with the Taliban.
In other words, there are one of two choices available in handling Adam Gadahn. Either he gets his day in court (which means that others currently in Gitmo get the same opportunity), or he gets a room for the duration down at Club Gitmo (along with his buddies). To put it simply, don't cut this MF any slack.
Then again, there is another option open to the US Government. They could take a leaf out of GWs book and just rendition this chap to a fun-loving country such as Egypt of Saudi Arabia, whose security agencies are somewhat more direct in resolving such issues. Furthermore, these same security agencies would probably be willing to slot this guy as a favor to the US.
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kinniku
sabiwabi,
Yeah, because nobody ever converts to Islam...not! Sorry, your whining about him not being real was false. The Pakistanis arrested him and he is the real deal. You have no proof of him being 'fake' anything. He converted to Islam more than 10 years ago. He has spoken harshly about his grandfather and his religion. Sorry, Jews have nothing to do with this.
Speaking of 'fake', I don't believe what you say you saw on CNN. Link?
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sabiwabi
I've been looking for that link for some time. Can't seem to find it, but I certainly did see it. I sometimes make mistakes, but I do not make stuff up...
Certainly, they do all the time, and they should; Islam is a great religion of peace, really! Cat Stevens converted.
His (Adam Pearlman's) hateful words makes me suggest he is a fake. That his grandfather was an important member of the ADL supports that view. That he would speak harshly about his grandfather's religion, rather than his organization, further supports that view.
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kinniku
It sounds to me like it does not exist.
It sure sounds like you just did.
Why? You don't believe there are extremists in the religion of Islam, just in every other religion? I guess you have not met many people. Extremists exist in all shapes sizes and religions. This article describes one of them and he happens to be Muslim. Get over it.
Why? It does not have to have anything to do with it and from all appearances it does not seem to have anything to do with it. Especially since Adam Gadahn clearly hated his grandfather's religion.
Ridiculous. It is much more likely that it speaks to his hate of the religion. He was distancing himself from that religion, which he said he hated.
Sorry, even by your standards you are not making much sense this time.
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sabiwabi
I am very consistent in my views, with all the discussions we've had, I would have expected you to understand my point. Not agree with it, but at least understand it. Truly religious people are, in my opinion, good and peaceful people.
Those who are the problem are those who pretend to belong to a religion, and abuse that religion to do some nasty stuff. These people call themselves Muslims, Christians, or Jews, and they kill, terrorize, and steal land, but they are not religious people, they only pretend to be. Anyway, that is my opinion, you don't have to agree with it, but I do believe it makes sense.
Anyway, if you also consider the mountain of evidence, both hard and circumstantial, which suggests that a certain criminal group has been very busy framing Arabs for terror plots against America, Adam Pearlman's fits in just fine.
0
goddog
Toss the key away.
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kinniku
sabiwabi,
Again, there are extremists in all shapes sizes and religions. This article describes one of them and he happens to be Muslim. Get over it. You claim, with no specific proof whatsoever, that the man is pretending to belong to the Islamic faith. If you were to say, he is not acting as a real Muslim should, I would agree. Just as I would agree if you were to say the same about any extremist of any religion. However, that is not what you are doing. You are claiming that he intends to fake being a Muslim and it not only makes no sense, you have no specific realistic reasonable reason for thinking so.
There is no mountain of evidence of Adam Gadahn faking his religion. All you seem to have is a Jewish grandfather he hated and said he hated and the grandfather's religion which Adam Gadahn also said he hated. This is the reason I think your comments don't make sense. Of course you have a right to your opinion. It is just my feeling that it does not make sense.
Anyway, I knew the CNN video did not exist.
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stevecpfc
kinniku, fancy comi g down Kobe and discussing this over a pint?
Tell the truth i cannot trust any side in the region. When i heard Britain allowed CIA torture i was disgusted. All sides have dirty hands. GRanted the extremists have lower morals, but the leaders cannot be trusted.
I agree with Kinniku on this one.
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sabiwabi
In that case we would only use religions as meaningless labels. Hey, today I am Muslim, yesterday I was Christian, tomorrow I'll be Jewish, and ...
Its not that Adam Pearlman's father is Jewish that is relevant; its that the grandfather was (is?) an important member of the ADL, which is not just any Jewish group.
0
delrennich
'...and we hanged him from the Gallow's Pole...'
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skipthesong
He was caught in Pakistan, its up to Pakistan how they wish to handle him. If they decide to let him go, then its up to the US or any other country to pick him up.
does he get a fair trial because he's a US citizen? This has to be the only war in history where the US was concerned about giving traitors fair trials.
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RomeoRamenII
Update: The man that was caught is not Adam (Gadahn) Pearlman. Rather it was Abu Yahya:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/03/07/world/main6275953.shtml
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kinniku
Except that is not the case here. Adam Gadahn converted to Islam as did Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens). Adam Gadahn became an extremist nut, Yusuf Islam did not. That does not mean they both did not convert to Islam. There is no record of Adam Gadahn changing religions daily. So, I'm sorry. I do not know what you are on about.
Neither Adam Gadahn's Jewish grandfather, who he seems to hate nor the Jewish grandfather's membership in a Jewish group, which you seem to hate have anything to do with this at all.
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kinniku
stevecpfc,
Sounds cool. Kobe's a great city.
I agree. Extremists of any shape, religion etc are scary people. Just like this character Adam Gadahn is. Let moderation reign!
0
kinniku
RomeoRamenll,
It seems there is some confusion, but the link you provided still seems to suggest it is Adam Gadahn.
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sabiwabi
Still?!!!
I bet he became an extremist nut, and then he converted. His grandfather was an extremist nut who joined the ADL and was allegedly Jewish, his father allegedly converted to Christianity.
Adam himself apparently converted to Islam. Interestingly, he was kicked out of the mosque he was attending in the US, so I wonder where he got these "extreme" views.
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kinniku
Yes, still. The man did not change religions daily as you are attempting to suggest.
I doubt you have proof of such a thing. Either way. He is an extremist nut that happens to be a Muslim. In addition, I doubt you have any proof of extremism in his family, for example his grandfather. His father would not have been Jewish as his mother was not Jewish, so I am not sure why you think he converted to Christianity. I don't understand your attempt at guilt by loose and no association.
You mention that Adam apparently converted to Islam. We already know that. As to where he got his extremist views, who knows? From some other nuts I would guess. In fact, it seems the other nuts might have been at the very same mosque you say he got thrown out of. He also could have gotten them when he travelled to Pakistan. That does not mean that they were Jewish nuts, which seems to be what you are attempting to suggest. In fact, there is nothing at all to suggest it.
You seem to think Adam Yahiye Gadahn is used as an attempt to blam the religion of Islam. This is not the case on my part. Adam Yahiye Gadahn was an extremist Muslim and the only thing to be blamed is extremism. I don't understand your need to blame everything and anything on any Jewish people that happened to breath the same air as someone else. This is about Adam Yahiye Gadahn and extremism, not Islam. It is not about searching the family histories of people to find the one Jewish person on which you can blame the crimes of Adam Yahiye Gadahn.
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kinniku
To clarify, it is very possible Adam Yahiye Gadahn's interest in Islam took the form of extremism and that extremism led him to convert to Islam. However, I see no evidence whatsoever to come to the conclusion that he was influenced by Jewish extremists as you seem to be suggesting.
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sabiwabi
He was a board member of the ADL.
Indeed, you don't understand. It has nothing to do with religion, these are in my opinion secular people with an agenda. Adam labels himself Muslim to further his agenda.
This has nothing to do with Jews. Adam allegedly converted and became radical only after moving into his grandfather's home. His grandfather was apparently very secular. My opinion is that he was trained (aka "influenced") by he secular grandfather and possibly other ADL members. If you want to call them Jewish extremists, fine, but I don't; just like I don't consider Adam a Muslim extremist. They use religion as a meaningless label, they are simply evil extremist nuts.
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kinniku
'He' meaning Adam Yahiye Gadahn's grandfather? So? Adam Yahiye Gadahn was not a member of the board of ADL. The ADL has nothing to do with Adam Yahiye Gadahn. Adam Yahiye Gadahn was a member of al-Quaeda.
You claim Adam Yahiye Gadahn was secular? What proof do you have of this? Adam Yahiye Gadahn converted to Islam. It is not a matter of labelling himself Muslim. It is a matter that he actually converted to Islam.
Your opinions about the ADL have no connection to this conversation. Adam Yahiye Gadahn also lived with his Christian grandmother. You are attempting to make connections in your own mind that have no connection with any actual facts. You have no proof that his grandfather or the ADL was training Adam Yahiye Gadahn. In fact, you have no basis for thinking the ADL is involved in this at all. Guilt by religion, whether you consider people's religions labels or not, is all your opinions appear to be. As such, one can only think your opinions are merely opinions not based in fact.
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kinniku
Just to add, agree or disagree with the ADL, it is not what could be called an extremist group. There is not history of violence. This is not true of al-Quaeda. That is why I find the attempts to equate the two groups as unrealistic and impractical. The focus is Adam Yahiye Gadahn. He is a Muslim extremist and member of al-Quaeda. His having one Jewish grandfather who belonged to a Jewish group has nothing to do with the crimes his grandson, Adam Yahiye Gadahn, has been accused of in connection with al-Quaeda.
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sabiwabi
Oh dear! Guilt by religion is the way you see it, not me.
Adam allegedly converted and became radical only after moving into his grandfather's home. It's Adam's association with the ADL that should raise red flags.
I've stated clearly from the start that its not that Adam's grandfather was Jewish that is significant, its that he was a senior member of the ADL. If that does not seem significant to you, then you don't really know what the ADL is.
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kinniku
First, the ADL is not an extremist organization. Al-Quaeda is.
Second, Gadahn didn't have any association with the ADL. He had an association with al-Quaeda.
Since you have shown not that 1)the ADL is an extremist group, 2)that al-Quaeda had any connection whatsoever with the ADL or that Gadahn had any connection whatsoever with ADL, 3) that anything you have written is either true or relavent to this case, it is hard to understand anything other than you searching for Jewish relatives of people to say that is the reason they are guilty of something.
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sabiwabi
Adam allegedly converted and became radical only after moving into his grandfather's home.
I couldn't care less about the religion of his grandfather, but he was a senior member (board of directors) of the ADL.
Although it PRETENDS to promote tolerance and fight racism, the ADL is known to have supported (created?) fake hate groups. For example, the ADL was caught many years ago supporting the American Nazi Party.
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kinniku
'Alledged' is used for crimes. Converting religions is not a crime. In addition, there is absolutely no reason to believe Gadahn did not convert.
You do not have any proof that the grandfather did anything wrong. You site one case in 1981 one member acting undercover in a right wing nut party as the example for a whole organization that has nothing to do with Gadahn. I think this is very problematic.
You have shown no link between al-Quaeda and the ADL and you have shown no positive link between Gadahn's conversion to Islam and his grandfather except for the fact they happen to live in the same house. Nothing, zero, zilch, zip.
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sabiwabi
I used allegedly because religion is a matter of belief, and nobody knows what his beliefs truly are.
There are several instances of the ADL supporting (not just infiltrating) fake hate groups; there is much more to it than the one "undercover" member you mentioned, much more.
Adam allegedly converted and became radical only after moving into his grandfather's home, a senior member of the board of directors of the ADL. That's enough to be very suspicious. Taken together with everything else we know about the ADL and Al Qaeda...
0
kinniku
We can never know anyone's beliefs for certain. However, there is no reason to believe Gadahn did not convert and you have provided none. You have provided no evidence of wrongdoer on the part of Gadahn's grandfather who also did charity work for the local YMCA as well.
You have shown absolutely no proof that al-Quaeda and Gadahn's grandfather are connected at all. You have further shown absolutely no proof that Gadahn's grandfather had anything whatsoever to do with Gadahn's conversion. In fact, checking on the man's history, it seems Gadahn's grandfather was regarded well by those around him, including medical colleagues.
You have no proof whatsoever of wrongdoing on the part of Gadahn's grandfather. Yet you are willing to smear his name...that raises more questions than your alleged proof ever could.
Bottom line, Gadahn converted to Islam and became an extremist and member of al-Quaeda. You have provided nothing to suggest his grandfather had anything at all to do with this. Just living in the same house with someone does not make you guilty. If it did, there would be a whole lot of innocent parents, grandparents and other family members in jails for crimes they had nothing to do with. You may like things to be this way, however it is not the way a fair society should operate.
Your suspicions don't matter. Facts do. You have provided none.
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sabiwabi
Correct, that is why I use the word "allegedly".
Yes, Adam Gadahn (born Adam Pearlman) allegedly converted to Islam and became an extremist while he lived with his grandfather, who was a senior member of the board of directors of the ADL, which is known to have supported fake hate groups in America (e.g., the American Nazi Party). That is all I am saying.
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kinniku
However, you never use the words alleged to describe Yusuf Islam or Ahmadinejad do you? We can never really be certain of their beliefs either. However, the point is no Islamic figure has disputed Gadahm's conversion. How are you qualified to do so?
Adam Gadahn (what difference does his former name mean?) did convert to Islam while he lived with his grandfather who was not a national office board of directors member, he was a local member. His grandfather had nothing to do with his conversion. He never supported any Nazi parties (neither did the ADL but I am sick of talking about a group that has nothing to do with this except in your mind). Again, no proof, just smearing of people you decide you don't like because they support Israel or are Jewish.
All I am saying is You have shown absolutely no proof that al-Quaeda and Gadahn's grandfather are connected at all. You have further shown absolutely no proof that Gadahn's grandfather had anything whatsoever to do with Gadahn's conversion. In fact, checking on the man's history, it seems Gadahn's grandfather was regarded well by those around him, including medical colleagues.
You have no proof whatsoever of wrongdoing on the part of Gadahn's grandfather. Yet you are willing to smear his name...that raises more questions than your alleged proof ever could.
Bottom line, Gadahn converted to Islam and became an extremist and member of al-Quaeda. You have provided nothing to suggest his grandfather had anything at all to do with this. Just living in the same house with someone does not make you guilty. If it did, there would be a whole lot of innocent parents, grandparents and other family members in jails for crimes they had nothing to do with. You may like things to be this way, however it is not the way a fair society should operate.
Your suspicions don't matter. Facts do. You have provided none.
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kinniku
What is the most shocking is that upon your comments, I decided to google Dr. Pearlman. Interestingly, your comments about Gadahn match very closely with what is said on the site Stormfront. Not really the best place to be getting information. At least you didn't call Gadahn a 'joo'.
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