Palestinians to seek U.N. membership if no peace treaty by Sept
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manfromamerica
Why are they called "Palestinians" when there is no Palestine?
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HonestDictator
@manfromamerica Palistinians = Phillistines. Both Isreal and Phillistine were small (very small) countries, just one had a name change.
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manfromamerica
honestdictator - thanks for the explanation. Of course, only Israel exists now. I presume Jews weren't called Israeli's until Israel was (re)created. I wonder what "Palestinians" would be called considering Palestine/Phillistine hasn't existed for a long time.
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herefornow
Good. The U.S. has lost too much international credibility for too manyy years due to its support of Israel. Just look at the fool they made of Obama in the past year by ignoring his repeated pleas to stop new settlements. As a U.S. citizen, I hope the U.S. abstains on this and forces Isreal to stand on its own. Netanyahu is no friend of the U.S.
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manfromamerica
The US should continue to support Israel. Why support the Palestinians, self-proclaimed enemy of the US?
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sabiwabi
Yeah, the Israelis continue to say this and they continue to do everything they can to sabotage dialogue. So basically, a Palestinian state will never be established if we continue waiting for Israel's and America's blessings.
In fact, we do not need their blessing. The world is now firmly behind the Palestinians. The Palestinian state already exists, we don't need the UNSC or America to officially recognize it.
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sabiwabi
Just because Palestine has been wiped off the map does not mean that the Palestinian people ceased to exist.
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sabiwabi
No, Palestine still exists, its still there. If you go to the UN website, you'll see that they often mention the "Occupied Palestinian Territories", where they state that the land belongs to the Palestinians. I guess, if it'll make you happy, you could call them Occupied Palestinians.
The people are Palestinians, and their land is Palestine.
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WilliB
manfromamerica:
It is a political move. Before Arafat invented the term in the 70's, Israel`s enemies were simply muslim Arabs. "Palestinian" in itself simply many anybody who live in Palestine... including, Jews, Christians, Druzes, whathaveyou.
Re-naming muslim Arabs is a way to de-legitimize Israel ("see, the Jews are not Palestinians"!). Clever linguistic trick, and it has worked like a charm.
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WilliB
should be "renaming muslim Arabs as Palestinians"
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goddog
The Ambassador to Japan from Palestine is a great guy. He would be a great leader in Palestine once it exists legally. If people would stop killing each other, it would make for a better world.
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Mangaman
The people living in Palestine calling themselves Palestinians is no more a semantical trick then when part of the Mandate of Palestine started calling themselves Israelis.
Some people here are trying to tell us the sky is green. Look, Palestine declared independence in 1989 and 112 countries recognize that. The people living in that area are not Israelis and don't want to be. They are no longer Jordinians or Egyptians either. People's are given names, just like Kurds who have not even declared independence. You nay sayers are welcome to join the countries who don't recognize Palestinian independence, but to declare that the Palestians do not even exist because you deny them a name? Puhleeze! If you are gunning for the state of having no cred, you are well on the way with that!
I can only hope the U.S. will not exercise its bullcrap veto and stop being Israel's sycophant on this. U.N. membership of Palestine is long overdue.
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herefornow
Mangaman -- agree 100%, as I indicated in my earlier post. The seemingly blind U.S. support of Israel has done nothing but cause it issues in the Mid-East for decades and continues to give radicals a rallying cry against the U.S. Time to shoot a warning shot over Israel's bow and make then get serious about making peace. (Don't even have to use the veto. Just abstain as China and Russia redently did on Libya.) The Mitchell plan has been on the table for several years, and almost everyone agrees that any final outcome will be very close to it. Israel is just stalling based on perceived weakness on Obama's part, to build as many settlements as they can, and, therefore, re-draw the boundaries.
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Mangaman
Funny that the people who drone on and on about rockets but have nothing to say about white phosphorus are now trying to say the Palestinians do not exist. If they don't exist, then neither do their rockets! Chew on that logic pretzel!
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AdamB
Mangaman,
So why on earth would Israel use white phosphorus against the palestinians? could it be in retaliation for the rockets/mortars and suicide bombers. What do you want them to use? By the way what would you rather them use WP (which is legal) or a 2000lb bomb (which is also legal). And before you say neither please tell me if someone was attacking your civilian population what would you do?
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Lieberman2012
Mangman:"Look, Palestine declared independence in 1989 and 112 countries recognize that. "
So? Do these 112 countries have to live with a completely artificial country - basically shock troops dressed up as a political entity - that is sworn to their destruction?
"I can only hope the U.S. will not exercise its bullcrap veto and stop being Israel's sycophant [ yeah, whatever....] on this. U.N. membership of Palestine is long overdue."
Here I agree with you, in part. All you have is hope...
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sabiwabi
Nothing justifies using white phosphorous on civilians, let alone on a known UN school packed with unarmed civilians.
All Israel has to do to stop the rockets is to stop this several-decades-long illegal occupation and start respecting international law.
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sabiwabi
There is no reason why anyone would not recognize Palestine. The pre-1967 border is recognized by the whole world, except "Israel".
This is not only land that the Palestinians want, it is land that already belongs to them, the whole world says so. And these so-called settlements are not settlements, they are illegal occupations (theft).
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Mangaman
AdamB, you will have to talk to manfromAmerica, WilliB, and Honestdictator who swear those people don't exist. I can't answer your question and I can't explain where they think the rockets came from or where the white phosphorus went if the Palestinians don't exist.
I believe they do exist.
Next up for discussion: Santa Claus. I don't think he exists, but admit I don't have proof because I cannot proof a negative. Sorry, logical is just the way I roll.
Remove the cause for them attacking my people. Mind you, I would not be involved in a U.N. condemned occupation in the first place (which is the cause).
I also think there are more choices than attacking civilians with bombs or white phosphorous.
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Lieberman2012
"There is no reason why anyone would not recognize Palestine"
I myself will recognize them when they make the effort to first create a civil society.None of the institutions needed to create a functioning democracy (I am assuming, probably wrong,that posters like sabiwabi and mangaman believe in democracy...) have been a priority for these poor, hate-filled people.They name streets after 'martyrs' who kill Israeli kids as they sleep. Long, long way to go.
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Lieberman2012
"I can't answer your question and I can't explain where they think the rockets came from or where the white phosphorus went if the Palestinians don't exist."
It's just as well.
White phosphorous?
Red herring.
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Mangaman
The effort has been made and is being made right now. Israel keeps mucking it up the the help of the U.S. Its what the article is about.
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Mangaman
"The beatings will continue until moral improves" was a sarcastic joke. Apparently, you missed the joke and thought it would actually work.
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WilliB
Mangaman:
Oh yes it is, when the muslim Arabs only are calling themselves "Palestinians" and thus exclude the Jews from being part of Palestine. Even the original UN resolutions, prior to 70`s, always talked about "the peoples of Palestine", and that included both Jews and muslim Arabs.
There is no use of the word "Palestinians" referring to muslim Arabs only prior to Arafat introducing this use in the 70s. Do your research and you will see it yourself.
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WilliB
Sabiwabi:
That is a meaningless statement. Both Israel, Jordan, and the West Bank are part of the historical protectorate of "Palestine". Today`s Israel is only a tiny fraction of what the British government originally promised the Jewish state, before it reneged on it.
As for the often-mentioned borders of 67, Israel entered the West Bank after being attacked by Egypt, Jordan, and Syria during the 1967 Six-Day War. Following the war, the U.N Security Council passed Resolution 242 in November 1967, which called on Israel to withdraw from territories it had captured. However, it is important to note that the resolution specifically (and intentionally) does NOT require Israel to withdraw from all these captured territories. Israel annexed the eastern part of Jerusalem into its capital city and maintains a decreasing presence in the West Bank for security purposes.
Naturally, the muslim and leftist anti-Israel crowd typically conveniently forgets that.
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sabiwabi
No serious scholar, even Israeli, says that today.
Regarding the U.N Security Council Resolution 242, you forgot to mention that it emphasized the "inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war". What part of inadmissible do you not understand?
BTW, you seem to be excluding the many Palestinian Christians. Why?
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sqwak
Hurray for Palestine ! Yes, go for it Palestine !
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Mangaman
I am afraid this little non-sequitor hardly explains your position that the Palestinians don't exist or should be called something else. No one is forcing you to say the word Palestinians, so no need to put them in quotes. If you got a name for them the world recognizes, then spill it.
You recognize Israel, so recognize Palestine. Your don't have to like them. In fact, you likes and dislikes are also non-sequitors.
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Lieberman2012
They want the borders they rejected in 1948?
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HonestDictator
@mangaman where in my post did I say the Palestinians didn't exist? All I did was inform Manfromamerica.
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manfromamerica
There is no Palestine. Is "Palestinian" a race? Why aren't they just called "Arabs"?
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sabiwabi
Are Americans a race? Canadians? French?...
No.
Are Israelis a race? No. There isn't even a Jewish race, its a religious group.
Just because a group has wiped Palestine off the map, it does not mean the Palestinians have ceased to exist. In fact, the UN still recognizes the Occupied Palestinian Territories; they are not called the Occupied Arab Territories.
These people are Palestinians, and their land is Palestine.
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AdamB
Sabiwabi,
"Just because a group has wiped Palestine off the map" you are so right and the group that wiped Palestine off the map are the Palestinians and Israels Arab neighbours. The Palestinians lost their land because they support terrorist groups that attack Israel. And also because Israel's Arab neighbours tried unsuccessfully to destroy Israel and in the process lost the Palestinians land to Israel. SO if the Palestinians have a complaint maybe they should stop supporting terrorists and also blame their Arab friends who cost them their land
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