Palestinians weighing alternatives to peace talks

Press Corps reporter Helen Thomas is asked by a rabbi* whether she had any comments on Israel. She replies: “Tell them to get the hell out of Palestine. Remember, these people are occupied, and its their land.” Keep in mind that Thomas was asked and responded about Israel, not Jews in general.

Palestine was populated by a thriving Palestinian population, the majority of whom were driven out in their hundreds of thousands, with a great number murdered, by the zionist thugs who later established the state of Israel. This Prussia of the Middle East is propped up by gargantuan amounts of US military aid, refuses to make peace with its neighbours who have offered recognition of 1967 borders via the Saudi Peace Plan, has continued to encroach upon Palestinian land, regularly attacks its neighbours in assaults that kill hundreds, flouts international law, continues to build illegal outposts on stolen land, and has refused to define its borders to this day.

Google. Helen Thomas: ‘get the hell out of Palestine’

Hamas' leader Mesh'al.

We do not fight the Zionists because they are Jews; we fight them because they are occupiers. The reason behind our war with the Zionist entity and our resistance to it is the occupation, rather than differences in religion. Resistance and military confrontation with the Israelis was caused by occupation, aggression and crimes committed against the Palestinian people, and not because of the differences in religion and belief.

Alternatives to peace talks? Like what, lob more rockets into Israeli neighborhoods?

Will the Palestinians try for double or nothing on their great land loss of 1967? When you play the game don't cry when you lose.

Intafada. Third times the charm.

Palestine enjoys an exceptional status, being the land of prophets and messengers, Palestine is one of the foremost examples of coexistence and tolerance among all faiths. This is a legacy carried by the Palestinians. The Palestinians – Muslims and Christians – are in the same boat against the Zionist occupation.

How is this for irony? Americans demand to call anyone who is anti Israel anti-semitic , when the fact is that the people of Middle East, Palestinians are semitic people. Not the Jews who moved from Germany, Poland, Russia, USA to Israel. They are not semitic people. While the Christian fundamentalists in US think it is god given right to support Israel the original true Christians. Christian Arabs are just as much against the occupation as any other Muslim or secular Palestinian.

Palestine is one of the foremost examples of coexistence and tolerance among all faiths. This is a legacy carried by the Palestinians. The Palestinians – Muslims and Christians – are in the same boat against the Zionist occupation.

Sounds like they got some rock solid tolerance in Palestine.

Even Hamas is tolerant towards all religions unlike Israel.

The Hamas Charter calls for the destruction of Israel.

Are you suggesting Palestinians to be tolerant to racist oppressosrs, thieves and murderes who come in and steal away property and cage them in camps? mikehuntez?

I wasn't suggesting anything. I was commenting sarcastically on your ridiculous statement.

However I would suggest if you are tolerant that you accept reality that you lost your gamble and would start to negotiate to save your people rather than take the no negotiation stance taken by Hamas. By their actions they have produced the same stance with their enemies. Sometimes you just have to cut your losses so they don't get any bigger. But time after time we see them continually attacking Israel and then crying when a response comes. I don't know about you but I call that just plain stupid.

But time after time we see them continually attacking Israel and then crying when a response comes. I don't know about you but I call that just plain stupid.

For Hamas and other militant groups I don't think they know any response other than violence. Just look at the way they treat their own people. They are neanderthals who haven't evolved past the whacking stick.

They've raided UN summer camps, burned down international schools, destroyed infrastructure in Gaza, used disfigured women and mentally handicapped teenagers to be suicide bombers, taken kids out of school to throw rocks instead of getting an education, hijacked relief supplies, completely militarized their population in order to have cannon fodder instead of educated diplomats. What are they doing these days? Trying to subvert the current negotiations between Abbas and Israel because, well, you can't kill Jews with negotiation, I suppose. No point in supporting it.

These uncivilized militants have held everyone hostage in the region, from decent Palestinians to Israelis to Egyptians. It makes you wonder how many more of their children they'll throw in the garbage can by convincing them that removing Israel by force is somehow an option. Just a few more rockets....you're almost there.

Neogreen,

You bring up some excellent points. What we should ask ourselves is how could the Israelis get away with this kind of behavior. How could they have such a hold on western leaders and the MSM.

What the Palestinians must do is focus on an information offensive to counter the huge Israeli DISinformation offensive. I believe most Americans and Europeans are decent people, and if they were well informed would not tolerate Israel's actions. If they understood that all the land beyond the 1967 borders is illegally occupied by the Israelis, they would not tolerate the so-called "settlements" or "natural expansion".

The Palestinians should arm themselves with video cameras and find a way to smuggle the videos out of Palestine, which is not an easy task.

Nearly half a million Israelis live in the West Bank and east Jerusalem.

Over a million "Palestinians" live is Israel.

Israel gave the green light to build 238 new houses

Good news for the "Palestinians". They depend on these housing developments for income, since they don't produce anything themselves.

sabiwabi: What we should ask ourselves is how could the Israelis get away with this kind of behavior.

Well that's easy. Not that I'm answering you directly, but I will address the point for others.

The militants provide a release valve for any pressure that the international community could put on Israel. And the pressure they could put would be significant since Israel is a part of the community and needs it for their survival.

But since the militants decided that terrorism was their best option the world understands that there's only so much pressure that they can put on Israel. The Palestinians undercut their own cause with every rocket they fire because they make it more difficult for the West and others to change what Israel does. Most rational people would have figured it out by now but the Palestinian militants are simple-minded neanderthals who only know violence.

The world also knows about the Palestinian on Palestinian violence, the corruption in their system, the heavy-handed tactics they use on their own people, etc. Even countries like Egypt are starting to back away from Palestine because of the Iranian connection, which is just another lovely way that the militants screw things up for everyone.

So as long as the militants keep providing footage of Israeli schools getting hit by missiles, babies covered in Hamas' terrorism garb, stories about burned schools, aid hijacking, human shields, etc., the world is mostly going to have to take a step back from pressuring Israel because no one wants to be seen as siding with such uncivilized human beings. No country wants to be seen as rewarding that kind of behavior.

Of course the militants could renounce violence, renounce terrorism, enact a policy of peaceful, non-violent resistance at which point the world could pretty much dictate what Israel would have to do next, but that's probably not going to happen as long as people such as yourself keep the hate (and war) alive. Despite the war crimes routinely carried out by Hamas, the Palestinians still get hundreds of millions of dollars in aid and some pressure is applied to Israel. Just imagine how much more that could be if they just stop raising terrorist babies.

The Pals have been doing the alternative to peace talks for years. What makes it so hard is that the Pals want it all their way or not at all. If they don't get their way, they start launching missiles, and sending people on bus rides in Israel that spontaneously explode.

SuperLib

Bravo.

Superlib,

Despite the war crimes routinely carried out by Hamas, the Palestinians still get hundreds of millions of dollars in aid ...

Sorry to burst you bubble, but war crimes are by far, very far, committed more frequently and to a greater extent by the Israeli side. The UN's Goldstone report will easily prove that. And as for aid, aid given to Israel is by far, very far, greater than what is given to the Palestinians. Basically, everything you've written is nonsense.

Sabiwabi:

" Sorry to burst you bubble, but war crimes are by far, very far, committed more frequently and to a greater extent by the Israeli side. "

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that is simply not correct. The Goldstone report proves only the bias of its creators. Israel has a democratic government and secular law that respects human rights. Hamas has Shariah and the stated goal to destroy Israel.

sabiwabi: Sorry to burst you bubble, but war crimes are by far, very far, committed more frequently and to a greater extent by the Israeli side. The UN's Goldstone report will easily prove that. And as for aid, aid given to Israel is by far, very far, greater than what is given to the Palestinians. Basically, everything you've written is nonsense.

You asked why the world wasn't putting more pressure on Israel. Well, you actually made up a bunch of stuff about a blind eye and "MSM" because that's just how you talk, but I think someone in there was a point about how Israel is treated. So, I answered.

I don't know where you're from, but I'm from a Western country, and I can tell you that the last thing any Western government wants to do is reward terrorists for violence. That's just the way it is and you can't change that by complaining from a keyboard and you certainly can't change that by advocating more terrorism from the Palestinians.

I've probably asked you this a hundred times: What has the result of an armed struggle gotten the Palestinians over the last half century? Gutters, gutters, and more gutters. So why do people still engage in that behavior when it's obviously counterproductive? Because they don't want peace, they want to win. You scoff at non-violent resistance not because it won't work, it's because it doesn't involve wiping out Israel. And if Israel isn't wiped off the map then, in your eyes, you've lost the war.

Like I said before some people want peace and some people want to win. You want to win. And I can tell you right now that you're utterly getting your ass kicked and you'll continue to get your ass kicked for the rest of your life as long as you support violence as a means to create change. It was probably hammered into you by your father just as Palestinian militants hammered it into their sons. But, but all means, keep supporting your war. You'll be an old man going to your grave with the images of Palestinian gutters in your mind. Americans and Israelis will be getting along with their lives just fine.

I don't know where you're from, but I'm from a Western country, and I can tell you that the last thing any Western government wants to do is reward terrorists for violence. That's just the way it is and you can't change that by complaining from a keyboard and you certainly can't change that by advocating more terrorism from the Palestinians.

Thats not really true. Look at Germany and Spain. Both groups are appeasers. England is going the same way. The reason is, their large Muslim population, and the fear that they themselves will become targets of terrorism. So rather then stand up, and attack it, they duck their heads and hope the US and other Western powers will take the heat for them. Unfortunately with Obama in office, and his policy of appeasement, its a huge backward step that does nothing to help create peace in the middle east. It doesn't force the Pals to the table, instead it gives them hope that if they just keep on their path, that they can get more concessions out of Israel, in an eventual settlement.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that is simply not correct. The Goldstone report proves only the bias of its creators.

You really don't know much about what you're writing about, do you? Judge Goldstone is a Jew and a zionist, he has always been a strong supporter of Israel. Despite all this, his report for the UN was very damning for Israel.

... I can tell you that the last thing any Western government wants to do is reward terrorists for violence.

Yeah, that is why all we really need is a truly free press. If the American people were well informed, they would not tolerate any financial or military aid going to Israel.

I've probably asked you this a hundred times: What has the result of an armed struggle gotten the Palestinians over the last half century? Gutters, gutters, and more gutters. So why do people still engage in that behavior when it's obviously counterproductive? Because they don't want peace, they want to win.

I've answered that a hundred times. Much of the Palestinian resistance is non-violent, but we only hear about the violent ones. The Palestinians have many times shown strong interest in real peace with the Israelis, and each time the Israelis got scared and vicious; the last thing they want is peace, what they want is more land (look up Greater Israel)

Peace Offensive #1: In the mid-1970s the PLO began supporting a two-state settlement on the June 1967 border. The PLO, headquartered in Lebanon, was strictly adhering to a 1981 truce with Israel. In August 1981 Saudi Arabia unveiled, and the Arab League approved, a peace plan based on the two-state settlement. Arafat was contemplating a historic compromise.

Israeli response: Fearing diplomatic pressures, Israel maneuvered to sabotage the two-state settlement and stepping up preparations to destroy the PLO. Israel conducted punitive military raids deliberately out of proportion against Palestinian and Lebanese civilians in order to weaken PLO moderates, strengthen the hand of Arafat's radical rivals, and guarantee the PLO's inflexibility.

To fend off Arafat's "peace offensive" Israel embarked on military action in June 1982. The Israeli invasion had been preceded by more than a year of effective ceasefire with the PLO, but after murderous Israeli provocations, the last of which left as many as 200 civilians dead (including 60 occupants of a Palestinian children's hospital), the PLO finally retaliated, causing a single Israeli casualty. Israel used the PLO's resumption of attacks as the pretext for its invasion.

Now does this sound familiar or what!!!!!! The exact same MO with Hamas a few years ago. Hamas making a peace offensive and the Israelis react in the exact same way!

You scoff at non-violent resistance not because it won't work, it's because it doesn't involve wiping out Israel. And if Israel isn't wiped off the map then, in your eyes, you've lost the war.

Look up "Palestinian loss of land" and you will see that it is the Israelis who are wiping Palestine off the map. Starting with the completely unfair, and illegal, partition plan that gave the Palestinians the short end of the stick. The Israelis got even greedier and stole more land in the 1967 war, and they continue to expand demolishing Palestinian homes to build their for-Jews-only "settlements"; despite UNSC resolutions, international court of justice, and the entire world telling it to return to the pre-1967 borders. And you actually expect to be taken seriously when you write that it is the Palestinians who do not want peace.

Israel would immediately get peace if it moved back to its pre-1967 borders and started respecting international law and basic human decency.