Palin questions McCain's concession of Michigan
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0
SezWho2
I think it's time that we address how we elect a president. I understand the problem of efficient allocation of resources. And I can understand a decision not to campaign heavily in a certain state. But it seems strange to just withdraw from a state once you have begun campaigning there.
As I understand it, at the time of our founding, the founders more or less assumed that States would be putting forward their own candidates for the presidency. (That I think accounts for the "favorite son" nominations that you used to see before the primary system became the national obsession.) The founder's idea was that States would compete among themselves, the electors would often not be able to reach a majority and the decision would default to Congress--as happened very early on. That's how Burr lost the Presidency to Jefferson I think. But maybe I misremember.
Now, of course, we don't really have States. We have partially autonomous federal districts called states. And the president, far from being the Article II guy in the Constitution has grotesquely morphed into a unitary executive. If that's what we want--and I don't--then I think we should have direct popular election, absolute plurality national vote. If not, let's return to greater sanity in playing the electoral college game.
0
goodDonkey
You don't just write off a state like Michigan unless you are not able to finance all the swing states. This is a signal of McCain's inability to financially support an across the board effort to win the swing states. It is the beginning of the end.
0
Betzee
Jeez, questioning the decisions of upper management? Not good (unless you can pull off a coup).
EJ Dionne wrote a column entitled "Hockey Mom Skating on Thin Ice" which appeared today (and the ice just got a whole lot thinner).
Palin has also brought out the very worst in McCain, forcing him to -- and I do not use this word lightly -- lie about her. In an interview broadcast Wednesday, National Public Radio's Steve Inskeep asked McCain if there would be "an occasion where you could imagine turning to Governor Palin for advice in a foreign policy crisis?"
McCain replied: "I've turned to her advice many times in the past. I can't imagine turning to Senator Obama or Senator Biden, because they've been wrong."
" Many times in the past?" McCain met Palin only twice before he selected her. What McCain said could not be true. And would anyone who listened to her last night really consult Palin on foreign policy?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/02/AR2008100203046.html
0
smithinjapan
Betzee: " Many times in the past?" McCain met Palin only twice before he selected her. What McCain said could not be true. And would anyone who listened to her last night really consult Palin on foreign policy?"
Well, the guy is pushing 74... time starts to all become relative once you get up there... yesterday was like a thousand years ago, and hence you have a tough time recalling the facts clearly.
Anyway, it's hilarious to watch the lies unravel, and see the infighting.
0
chibaman
See she does read the newspapers! Talk about being out of the loop and the decision-making process, and that's their VP. Why wasn't she consulted? Cos she has nothing of real value to say and has no clue about anything outside her tiny world up north? Palin is a gift to the Democrats. Blunder of the Repubs campaign. Maybe McCain should have spoken with her more than twice before deciding to go with the camera-friendly airhead.
0
rjd_jr
Infighting already. Quite sad to watch this ticket going down the tubes already.
0
Sarge
Y'all get ready for President McCain and Vice President Palin.
0
bebert
What a good attitude Palin has. In truth, Palin is probably the one asset McCain can use in Michigan. McCain's not well liked there because he told the autoworkers in the state that their manufacturing jobs aren't coming back (which is partly true - the jobs will come back, but at half the pay of previous generations of workers). McCain doesn't work in Michigan, but Palin, like Gov. Romney, might.
On the other hand, I don't know if I'd read too much into the double digit lead for Obama. Michigan's unemployment rate is 9%. Who do you think is home to answer phone calls from the pollsters in the middle of the day?
0
Sarge
"the people in Michigan who are hurting"
I'll betcha a lot of them are driving Toyotas and Hondas and Nissans.
0
chibaman
You should probably stop saying things like this cos once the election has rightfully gone the way of Team Force Obama you'll never hear the end of it and be you'll be further reduced to even more petty and redundant and childish retorts. Just concede now. Go on, you know you want to.
0
smithinjapan
chibaman: Best to just ignore sargie when he gets into denial phase... he can't even address the issue here -- which is Palin going against her superior when he chickened out of Michigan. Just let him implode.
So now we have a very funny little conundrum unfolding; either McCain dismisses Palin's criticism and as such admits her uselessness, or he has to bow down and accept it, showing he wouldn't be up to the decision-making process necessitated by the role of President.
Yup, quite the motley crew you've got on the Republican ticket! Fortunately, as chibaman rightly points out, the polls are sliding even FURTHER towards Obama, and he's basically got it in the bag.
0
Sarge
chibaman - Two questions:
Why do you hate this good woman Palin so much?
Why would you support a man for president who went to a church, listening to all that hate and venom being spewed all those years and say he wasn't aware of it, associated with a domestic terrorist, and have as financial advisors people who were involved deeply in the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac shenanigans?
0
bebert
Sarge, such vitriolic hatred is based on one thing: fear. And I don't mean fear of someone (supposedly) unqualified making it to the White House as VP.
Don't let it bother you. Watching these Obama boosters suffer conniptions of "Palin Derangement Syndrome" is very amusing. The only thing more amusing would be watching them the day after a McCain/Palin victory - which would be priceless should it happen, just from an entertainment perspective. And I say this as someone who loathes John McCain.
0
Betzee
Sarge,
You're missing the point. It is appropriate for Palin to publicly question McCain's judgment? As she said last night, "I've been at this, like, five weeks."
I would never publicly question decisions made by my superiors because it would undermine their authority. If I disagree, I will take it up with them privately, where my views would get a fairer hearing. It's too late, anyway, the decision has already been made by the McCain campaign to pull out of Michigan and nobody, apparently, considered it important to inform her beforehand.
0
chibaman
I don't hate her, but it's obvious you like her. Does she resonate with you Sarge? Do you think she's attractive? I prefer competence. She's running for VP, do you get that Sarge? What an embarrassment. Of all the people in the country, she would be number 2? It's a moot point anyway. Accept it, Obama is the next president and Palin can go back to reading her local rag, and watching hockey but keeping an eye on the Russians.
Palin, the supposed next VP, not even consulted or informed about election strategy, that's how much McCain turns to her for advice. She then finds out in her new hobby of reading non-Alaska newspapers, and decides to try to assert herself by disputing the party's move. What a mess.
0
yabits
The Republicans can kiss the election of 2008 good-bye and return to what they are good at: sniping from the sidelines as a minority party and trying to hold back the progress of the nation on all fronts except for making the rich even richer.
0
coulrophobic
Detroit News: “Michigan’s economy is so bad that State Department is sending fewer Iraqi refugees to the area because of concerns that their future would not be bright.”
Detroit has a Democrat for mayor, the state legislature is controlled by Democrats and the governor of Michigan is a Democrat.
Michigan no longer land of promise for Iraqi refugees Gregg Krupa / The Detroit News
0
SushiSake3
The wheels of mccain's straigh talk express are coming off.
Ha ha! Sarah Palin heard about a top level campaign strategic campaign through the newspaper. Clearly she was left out of the discussions and no one - not even the man who selected her - had the respect to even tell her.
Seems like communication is breaking down inside the john mccain campaign as the polls barrel south.
And there's clearly little respect for women in the mccain campaign - mccain keeps Palin chained up in a darkened cupboard somewhere until he decides to wheel her out for pre-scripted interviews (and she can barely even handle them, but that's beside the point).
Heh, the only ones who'll be sad to see the GOP get booted out of power next month will be Americans who hate their country and the terrorists who have thrived under the policies of current GOP president GWBush
0
chibaman
McCain campaign (minus the person who would become VP)'s decision breaks Thursday midday, the same day as the debate. My goodness. That's not enough time to 1) let who would be our VP know of the decision we made without her and 2) give who would be our VP enough time to memorise lines and counterlines! What a joke. Can you imagine a President Palin?! Which is all it will amount to anyway, imagining, a could-have-been nightmare and comedy at the same time. So what do you think Madame President? ・・・・・Umm can you give me more time so somebody can let me know what's been happening with that? No one has told me! I'm firing off a couple of quick emails.
0
smithinjapan
bebert: "The only thing more amusing would be watching them the day after a McCain/Palin victory - which would be priceless should it happen, just from an entertainment perspective. And I say this as someone who loathes John McCain."
It WOULD be entertaining... and I'm happy you used the subjunctive, because I can say it's GOING TO BE entertaining to watch the reverse happen when Obama wins the White House. I can already see the denial oozing forth, alongside the panic and outright fear.
sarge: for all the things you judge Obama for, it would be easy to counter and add to McCain's list, but I'll just sum up the most poignant -- he has supported 95% of Bush's ideals and initiatives, all the while claiming to be a cow abandoned by it's mother... err... I guess they call that 'maverick' (or at least, that's the definition of maverick). McCain has already proven to be a bigger hypocrite than Bush, and the former is only RUNNING for office! The latter at least has the excuse of being mentally challenged to fall back on.
Anyway, the proof that McCain and Palin have already failed is out there and widely known; polls slippnig in every department, confidence already erroded, they're even battling each other, etc. Quite humourous, really.
0
Nessie
Sarge, just wondering what you think about Palin and the casting out of witches? First, like Palin, do you believe in witches?
0
smithinjapan
If only Biden had mentioned something about McCain chickening out of Michigan during the debate, and hit 'Palin' with a big question mark over her head! Would have been hilarious, given that there was no prescripted lines for her to memorize yet on THAT one.
The only ones who could even POSSIBLY think Palin is doing a good job are those in complete denial and/or those who know absolutely nothing of the issues at hand and suck up Palin's "We're going to change things!" (but not a word as to how) rehashed comments from her and McCain's convention speeches.
But, all you few remaining supporters should look on the bright side... when Obama takes office next month at least Sarah Palin can run back and hide in her virtually uninhabited state -- very little media to deal with and all -- and be forgotten as she should be, aside from as a footnote in joke book.
0
tclh
0
coulrophobic
So we have here an article that describes what - a little contretemps between Senator McCain and his running mate, a difference of opinion?
It undoubtedly balances an article from last month reporting how Senator Biden admitted publicly that Senator Clinton would have made the better choice for vice president on the Democratic ticket.
0
SushiSake3
These days are geting tough for the anti-American mcain-Palin supporters.
Every day the news just gets worse - poll numbers slipping, the campiagn surrendering in key states, massive blunders...
About Palin - what GOPpers need to understand is that the Sarah Palin we saw yesterday debating Joe Biden was the **SAME **Sarah Palin we saw screwing up her lines, staring in dumbfounded silence, going wildly off topic in response to specific questions from Katie Couric last week.
The point is 1-2 weeks and the learning of a few more soundbites is going to make ZERO difference to Sarah Palin's near non-existant experience, the fact that she only got a passport last year, knows less than most JTers about foreign countries and policies, et al.
It's the same pig with just a slightly different shade of lipstick.
0
smithinjapan
coulrophobic: "It undoubtedly balances an article from last month reporting how Senator Biden admitted publicly that Senator Clinton would have made the better choice for vice president on the Democratic ticket."
You've got to be kidding. If Biden was talking about himself being chosen, and I assume that he was, it's a self-deprecating remark by a man with a pretty decent sense of humour. It's not at all like a VP candidate questioning the actions of her running-mate.
0
Sarge
chibaman: "Accept it, Obama is the next president"
chibaman has spoken! The election's over! McCain and Palin are toast!
Nessie, you are really grasping at straws now. Is that all you got on Palin? You're gonna have to do better than that.
0
coulrophobic
Some of the contributors here scare me:
"About Palin - what GOPpers need to understand is that the Sarah Palin we saw yesterday debating Joe Biden was the **SAME **Sarah Palin we saw screwing up her lines, staring in dumbfounded silence, going wildly off topic in response to specific questions from Katie Couric last week."
What you need to understand, before stepping into a voting booth in the modern world, is that Governor Palin's interviews with Katie Couric, like all such interviews, were cut and edited afterwards.
0
smithinjapan
sarge: "chibaman has spoken! The election's over! McCain and Palin are toast!"
Glad you can admit it -- your subconscious is finally making some ground in getting through. And when they do win you can at least cut and paste this comment and pretend you weren't being sarcastic. At any rate, it is far more likely to happen than a 'sarge prediction'.
Anyway, sarge, I noticed that once again you avoid commenting on the thread at hand; why is Sarah Palin going against McCain? oh, and saying Nessie is grasping at straws (particularly when she's not, but in fact is right on the money) is not answering her question. So go on and answer it.
0
SushiSake3
coulrophobic - "What you need to understand, before stepping into a voting booth in the modern world, is that Governor Palin's interviews with Katie Couric, like all such interviews, were cut and edited afterwards."
Is that the best you've got? I'm expecting you to tell us next that there was a MSM conspiracy of some sort to portray Sarah Palin in a bad light.
0
goodDonkey
sarge
McCain better get with the program! Don't you know that Palin is the Ambassador from God? "[W]e stood with over 100 Pentecostals in Crossroads Church just outside Wasilla, Alaska, and heard the pastor proclaim that Sarah Palin would be the ambassador of God from righteous believers." God wants Michigan. God doesn't care if they drive "Toyotas and Hondas and Nissans." Wasillaians know that God will deliver the Michiganites if only McCain will believe.
0
coulrophobic
If Governor Palin is to be held answerable for her pastor's zealotry and unabashedly pro-American beliefs can those supporting her expect from secular and scientific 'humanists' that the same accountability is expected from Senator Obama for his twenty year association with Reverend Jeremiah Wright and his infamous screaming damnations of the United States of America from his Chicago pulpit?
0
majimekun
To me, it's obvious that the fact that Palin wasn't told anything about the campaign strategy is the proof that she is only a tool to get more voters and that she isn't taken seriously by Mc Cain himself.
BTW, I have a queston : would it be possible for McCain to pick a different VP just after being elected?
0
Sarge
smith - "Why is Sarah Palin going against McCain?"
Apparently you missed McCain's speech in front of a roaring crowd in Dayton, Ohio, introducing Palin:
"She stands up for what she believes in, and she doesn't let anybody tell her to sit down."
0
Sarge
majimekun - "would it be possible for McCain to pick a different VP just after being elected?"
majimekun, are you serious? Ha ha ha
Your question is meaningless because, according to chibaman and smithinjapan, the election is over - Obama is going to be the next President of the United Socialist States of America.
0
adaydream
A simple text, "We're getting our ass beat in Michigan. Pulling campaign out of state."
It's unbelieveable and laughable.
McCain's campaign is falling apart.
Adious amigo, say hello to President Barack Obama and Vice President Biden.
"HI GUYS!!!!" < :-)
0
Sarge
adaydream has confirmed it - the election is over. Might as well just skip the election and swear in Barack Obama President of the USSA right now.
0
yabits
In response to the question on Jeremiah Wright, that matter has already been fully played out in the court of American opinion. Lamentations by pastors regarding the wages of wrongdoing on the part of nations have been with us since the days of Pastor Wright's namesake, and should not be unfamiliar to anyone who has ever read the Old Testament or attended church.
I have yet to hear the details about Palin's association with some wierd-sounding rituals. And while they may be every bit as harmless as Senator Obama's affiliation with Wright's church, they deserve equal airing.
0
yabits
No, the election is not over, just the campaign for the Republicans in the state of Michigan. Still, permanently suspending campaign efforts in what was a key battleground state does not bode well for Sarge's party.
The question is rapidly becoming how foolish do the diehard supporters of the Republicans want to appear as the evidence of extreme public disaffection mounts against them. It's one thing to say that McCain's policies are better or Obama's are worse, and quite another to tell people to get ready for President McCain when there is little evidence of that ever happening.
I am reading about how the Democrats have been surging in Nevada since November of 2006. At that time, registered Republicans outnumbered Democrats by just under 9,000. Since then, new Democrats have been registering at a rate of thousands more a month than Republicans, and now outnumber the GOP by over 80,000.
What hasn't been registering, as the source below puts it, is the so-called "Palin phenomenon."
http://www.lvrj.com/news/30085169.html
0
coulrophobic
"And while they may be every bit as harmless as Senator Obama's affiliation with Wright's church, they deserve equal airing."
Why did Senator Obama leave Trinity Church if its theology, rituals and politics were harmless?
And would equal airing include the offer to address the entire country - on national TV no less - about religion itself, as the adult convert to Christianity Senator Obama was allowed to do?
btw - This is an important matter, in Michigan and nationwide. Blacks in America probably vote 90 percent Democratic, but unlike the rest of registered Democrats the percentage among them which profess a belief in God is also around that percentile. Senator Obama stated in his first book that he joined a church after being told repeatedly that in Chicago it was political necessity.Detroit probably isn't much different.
0
yabits
Allowed to do? The McCain-Palin campaign is free to announce and schedule a talk on this matter, just they are free to announce press conferences. I am pretty sure that if the subject is witches, it will gather some viewers.
The real difference may be religious bigotry and narrow-mindedness on the part of those who want to make issues out of adult conversion and church-going. There are lots of religious, spiritually-minded people in this country who don't attend church, and many who do so mainly for the purpose of social interaction.
0
SushiSake3
Sarge - "Apparently you missed McCain's speech in front of a roaring crowd in Dayton, Ohio, introducing Palin:
"She stands up for what she believes in, and she doesn't let anybody tell her to sit down."
You had better believe mccain was telling the truth.
Only bit he didn't say was - 'but I do chain her up in dark cupboards to keep her out of the public eye."
0
coulrophobic
Detroit's mayor was a rising star in the Democratic party until he resigned in shame last month.
As is now the double standard, so to speak, the major networks almost never mentioned party affiliation.
Maybe Governor Palin is right. Maybe the people of Detroit and Michigan deserve better.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwame_Kilpatrick
0
Sarge
In response to SushiSake3's ridiculous 9:22 PM post-
He didn't say that because not only would he never do such a thing, he couldn't do such a thing.
0
SushiSake3
In response to Sarge's ludicrous 10.54 post - "Why do you hate this good woman Palin so much?"
It's not that anyone hates her - it's just that Sarah Palain is in no way, shape, or form even remotely suitable for the job of vice president.
C'mon, admit it Sarge. :-)
Even you are better qualified that she is to co-lead your great country!
0
SushiSake3
Sarge - you've got no choice whatsoever but to admit - right here on JT - that john mccain has no respect for women.
Fact: john mccain did not tell Sarah Palin that he was surrendering his campaign fight in Michigan.
Now ask yourself this: Would you sell the house out from under your wife's shoes and simply not tell her?
That's what I mean by the respect for women that your man john mccain clearly doesn't have.
0
Sarge
In response to SushSake3's ridiculous 9:59 PM post -
"john mccain ( John McCain ) has no respect for women"
That must be why he nominated a woman to be his VP.
0
MrDickMorris
SushiSake3, Hey why the hatred of Mrs Palin, what's she ever done to you?
Palin questioning McCains concession of Michigan, just shows her enthusiatic wlll to win.
This is a no story. let'smove onto some real politics for us educated Conservative folk please.
0
SushiSake3
MrDickMorris - where on Earth did I say I hate Sarah Palin???
Moving on, here's what she did say -
Palin was shakier, but not as bad as in the interview with Katie Couric. She often avoided answering questions and didn't get any follow-up questions from moderator Gwen Ifill as she did from Couric.
For example, when Ifill asked her what she'd do about the mortgage crisis, she said: "Let's commit ourselves--just everyday American people, Joe Six-Pack, hockey moms across the nation--I think we need to band together and say, 'Never again.'"
She didn't explain how hockey moms could get together to prevent a financial crisis.
0
SushiSake3
Sarge - "That must be why he nominated a woman to be his VP."
LOL!!!
mccain picked Sarah Palin in a blatant attempt to pander to women vote.
Everyone knows that.
0
SushiSake3
Oh, and Sarge/MrDickMorris - can you tell us how your country is going to finance Sarah Palin's planned invasion of Russia?
0
JoeBigs
Sarge, I salute you sir, takes a big man to admit defeat! Well done, well done indeed! I knew you had it in you, better part of valor and all!!! Bravo Zulu!!
Okay folks Sarge has surrendered! The last one of the few diehards has been converted!
So Sarge, what exactly convinced you that Oldman McBush and his girl Friday are just not going to pull it off?
Was it all the Second City style politics? Or was it the fact that picking Palin shows how out of it McBush really is? So what was it?
By the way, great to have you on the winning side!
Obama/Biden 2008!
Well done sir!
0
Betzee
And she's going to provide it by going there and "speak[ing] to the people in Michigan who are hurting because the economy is hurting"? Come on, huey. (Mexican slang for "dude.")
Mitt Romney thought they deserved better, too, than John McCain's honest admission on the campaign trail last January that "those jobs aren't coming back." To this end, Governor Romney promised "to roll up my sleeves in the first 100 days I’m in office, and I will personally bring together industry, labor, Congressional and state leaders and together we will develop a plan to rebuild America’s automotive leadership.”
As David Brooks, whom you quoted admiringly on the other thread yesterday observed, "This is how the British Tory party used to speak in the 1970s."
0
Loki520
When did Kos start posting on JT?
0
sailwind
The moment He chose her to be his V.P.
0
chibaman
What a loser. You wanna know how to sink a campaign doggoneit? Just throw this woman into the mix you betcha. Can I call you Sarah? Thanks for making what was a close election a blowout. Republicans unite, regroup now and consider your VP selection for 2012. And when I mean consider, I mean try to find an even lower common denominator. Yes it's over. Regroup. 2012 is just around the corner. Good luck. Thanks for your petty efforts to date. Get a brain.
0
Nessie
Could you please answer my question? Are you for witchcraft, or against it?
Moderator: Back on topic please. Witchcraft is not relevant to this discussion.
0
Sarge
Nessie - I'll be glad to answer any questions you have relevant to this thread.
0
SezWho2
Witchcraft may be irrelevant to this thread, but surely whether or not Palin is out of touch with what is or is not real must be relevant to any discussion of her political pronouncements. I thought that was the point.
0
zurcronium
republican campaign is so weird . . .
Last week no one cared about failing palin, now no one in the repub party cares about mccain. palin critiques mccain on michigan? She is running for president now for 2012 boys and mccain is the old fogey in the way.
You go girl!! Empty headed ambitiion? Bush you have met your match in Ms Oil. Drill, baby, drill!!
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