China condemns Paris, London Olympic torch protests

Tuesday 08th April, 03:25 PM JST

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apecNetworks at 04:27 PM JST - 14th April

To Gmygmygmy:

It invokes fear in those who are aware of the POWER behind multilateral gatherings - it unites, uplifts as well as economic benefits. The Olympics is an established world standard, and a country can derive great prestige and tremendous amount of goodwill connections worldwide. The "torch relay" signifies this unifying force that can be engendered, igniting the commencement of the great acheivement humankind can accomplish, the signal to the world that all roads lead to Beijing in 2008 to see WHO is the best, WHO is what in the spectrum of performance, the culmination of years of dedication to acheive one's personal best, to be one w/ the world for a fleeting moment.
tako10 at 04:33 PM JST - 14th April

Dalai Lama has received money from numerous institutions including Aum Shinrikyo. The type of donation is called “ofuse(お布施)” or “dana”. Generally, Buddhist monks accept “ofuse” from anyone even if s/he is a criminal or anti-any government.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C4%81na

Receipt of money alone cannot be a conspiracy against China, anyway.
blaze524 at 04:41 PM JST - 14th April

NotImpressed: The thing is, there aren't any videos that prove that the Chinese government opened fire at the first sign of protest. There are however, many instances of blatant misrepresentation by the Western media, clouding the issue and painting a decidedly negative portrait of China. Years of pent up anger may have fueled the unrest but the manifestation of that anger into a rampage on innocent civilians is inexcusable. The term "thuggish elements" implies that a tiny minority of the protesters were violent whereas the majority were engaged in peaceful
demonstrations. This couldn't be further from the truth as - and tons of videos on Youtube can attest to this - it seems that the majority were behaving violently.

It's funny that you mention that ordinary Tibetans deserve a chance to run Tibet, free from oppression from BOTH the CPP and the Tibetan religious leaders. However, the videos of the violent demonstrations are primarily of the Tibetan Monks, the so-called religious leaders and societal elite that dominated Tibetan society pre-1950s. Which inevitably brings up the question: do ordinary, non-Lamaist Tibetans want independence or is this really a case of the minority, Lamaist monks being outspoken and not really representative of the majority? Remember, in the old regime, a Tibetan monk had his life valued as much as his weight in gold. Whereas a serf's value was by the his weight in rope. I'm not so sure that ordinary Tibetans are so anxious to gain independence.

The whole issue of jumping on the bandwagon is important because people need to know the history and issues before committing to a cause. Otherwise you're just blindly playing follow the leader and become oblivious to what it is you're fighting for and become in your words, "drones". What you said about the CCP's reputation preceding it is true. However, that does not mean that everything the CPP does is wrong. Sure, you might take what the CPP says with a grain of salt, but that means you shouldn't just automatically dismiss what they say as in with a knee-jerk reaction. You should investigating their claims. Otherwise, you are engaging in an ad hominem attack on the CPP. Also, why bring animal rights into this issue?

Final note: From what I've gathered from my readings, Tibet was a recognized part of China dating all the way back to the Yuan Dynasty.
tako10 at 05:02 PM JST - 14th April

By now, it is clear that today’s media has not been helping the development of democracy in China. I remember my grandfather liked to listened to his short wave radio. He especially liked to listen to BBC radio. (They had Japanese program.) Before early 90s, those radios conveyed very positive messages to foreign listeners. But now, whether I am in China, Japan, US, or Canada, I always watch the same news program. If Japanese old folks listened to US domestic news programs in 1945 that said the Japanese deserved to be nuked, they might have fought with bamboo spears until the last Japanese was killed.
tako10 at 05:11 PM JST - 14th April

Years of pent up anger may have fueled the unrest but the manifestation of that anger into a rampage on innocent civilians is inexcusable.

I generally agree with his comment against VIOLENCE. However I believe many posters here, especially Americans, think provocation justifies retaliation.
tako10 at 05:17 PM JST - 14th April

I suggest, in Nagano, they should have different designated areas for pro-China supporters and others including pro-Tibet protestors so that pro-China people can have their cerebration peacefully.
redacted at 05:27 PM JST - 14th April

OK blaze, NotImpressed -

Judge for yourself if you think China is guilty or not - or should be suspected of planting anti-Chinese demonstrators - at the blog PowerLine, one of the best-known and most frequented in the States. There are some pretty curious photos.

Interestingly, a Japanese blogger found an earlier photo of the "Tibetan thug" that tried to wrest the torch from the wheelchair-bound Chinese athlete in France and in that earlier picture he is visible with a group that is supporting the Chinese.

"Other oddities have appeared. Dafydd writes that Chinese bloggers have circulated this photo of a group of Chinese soldiers, each of whom is carrying a Tibetan monk's robe"

http://powerlineblog.com/

April 13th

"Agents Provocatuer"
gmygmygmy at 05:30 PM JST - 14th April

Chinese are preparing to boycott Carrfour stores in China, tens of QQ groups, similar to MSN groups, are quickly setting up. A nationwide campaign is about to start. The planned date is May 1. But the Chinese government seems don't like this idea, some related webpages are deleted.
tako10 at 05:46 PM JST - 14th April

do ordinary, non-Lamaist Tibetans want independence or is this really a case of the minority, Lamaist monks being outspoken and not really representative of the majority? Remember, in the old regime, a Tibetan monk had his life valued as much as his weight in gold. Whereas a serf's value was by the his weight in rope. I'm not so sure that ordinary Tibetans are so anxious to gain independence.

I am a Buddhist and have personally met many Tibetan monks and people living in the US, so I always become a little passionate about this topic. Objectively speaking, the worst mistake the CCP made was probably the implementation of emancipation of surfs. Without emancipation, their grievances might have been targeted toward the dominant social classes rater than against the CCP. However, compared to Japanese Buddhism, I have an impression that Tibetan Buddhism is much less hierarchical. Tibetans do not seem to have the type of hostility people in Kyoto used to have against Japanese monks. Tibetan monks hardly seem to be oppressive compared to Japanese monks. I am not sure Tibetans really want independence. But it seems clear to me that they want to gain real autonomous status from China.
gmygmygmy at 05:56 PM JST - 14th April

Even his holiness admits that Tibet is part of China and that he seeks no independence!
tako10 at 06:08 PM JST - 14th April

blaze 524 – your posts are so interesting. My opinion may sounds like a first year college student paper, but I think Chinese people are fully ready for democracy. If you mean democratic institutions by Bush’s administrative branch, Pelosi’s legislative branch, and Robert’s Supreme Court, I guess almost no one in the world want them. If China implement their first election after the Olympic, I guess the CCP will win for the same reason the LDP win election in Japan – it’s the only party that can handle national politics. Probably the election will create a very hostile government against Japan.

I will go to sleep. Good night.
notimpressed at 06:20 PM JST - 14th April

I think the gloves are off on both sides and its getting too messed up. History is always questionable, because who wrote it with what agenda? Proof of anything is difficult without being the one with a camera and being able to get away with filming anything. Of course its only chinese footage or footage that shows CCP in a positive light that will ever make it out of there. If it was cut and dry it wouldnt be a problem. What I do have a problem with most of all, is the idea of being forced to renounce ones religeon or religeous leader whether said leader is just or not. I also get pissed at incarceration for dissent. I also disagree with burning books, like the Maoists did, I get queezy at restrictions on the most base of liberties. SO I dont know, but you can bet if I was Tibetan, I d be wanting the CCP out. Just because they "recognised" something didnt make it so. Only when they came in and started messing about with peoples lives, would it have been an issue. Hell Im from a commonwealth country, but Britain doesnt make our laws, or come in and enforce anything. At least we are allowed to be our own country, not be simply absorbed, and undermined. I think almost everyone here has good points though, but the jury is still out on gmygmygmy. Like i said up top, that was my take in brief, and not a remarkable effort at that. I cant really be bothered trying to elaborate or reference because it affects nothing in the end. Just have to wait and see what unfolds. Noone will stop CCp because they have too much vested interests, and Tibet is likely to be played as a pawn for everyone else, and unlikely to get a fair deal out of any of this nonsense. i also cant be bothered checking for typos, so there ya go, its just an opinion post after all.
blaze524 at 07:39 PM JST - 14th April

Redacted: I will admit that the existence of these photos raises intriguing questions, but reasonable explanations could certainly exist. Regarding the man who was walking with the pro-China people - it's a free country, he can walk wherever and with whomever he wants. Also, that sidewalk may have been the only entrance to the street. Finally, assuming that he isn't a "double-agent"(!), its more than likely that those pro-China supporters did not know what he was up to. As for the soldiers holding monk robes - maybe they were Tibetans that joined the army. Who knows? There are no dates given and really, nothing is conclusive.

Tako10: I don't consider emancipation of the Tibetan serfs to be a mistake. They are humans and deserve to be more than just slave labour to their overlords. If anything, I applaud China's abolishment of the feudal system in Tibet. This is mainly the reason why I'm giving the CCP the benefit of the doubt in this matter. It was the right thing to do.
Betzee at 10:47 PM JST - 14th April

"Other oddities have appeared. Dafydd writes that Chinese bloggers have circulated this photo of a group of Chinese soldiers, each of whom is carrying a Tibetan monk's robe"

That photo has now been identified as a movie still. As for the Chinese govt sending people to disrupt the torch relay under the guise of promoting the Tibetan cause, it is highly unlikely. The logistics of controlling that on foreign soil are very dicey. Botton line, they are into control and like highly choreographed public events in which participants exhibit docorum.
Betzee at 11:04 PM JST - 14th April

I think the photo of the Tibetan capped protestor marching happily with those carrying the Chinese flag is doctored. His action were a public relations disaster and that provides an incentive to make him into a Chinese doubt agent. Anyone who saw that easy to conceal cap would have realized what he was up to. He probably put it on just before he attacked the wheel-chair woman carrying the torch. He knew it would be photographed and anyone who saw it would understand his grievance. Outside of China this is largely being fought through images.