Pope deplores Belgian sex raids
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28 Comments
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Darren White
The catholic church can't be trusted with internal investigations.
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borscht
The catholic church's internal investigations have, in the past, resulted in pedophiles being transferred from one church to another.
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YuriOtani
They arrested the nine Bishops for 9 hours? What was the probable cause for holding them and their staffs? Ah Mr Minister, your police detained a group of people with out probable cause.
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ronaldk
My concern is that you get to the point where you want the government to watch everybody, but you have to ask, who is watching the government?
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martinli92
Probably thousands of child porn photos will be found after the Belgian police explored those bishops' personal computers! It was a pity for the pope still hiding those sex offenders,his frrious just giving the Vativan a bad name because he is hinting a large bunch of criminals hiding inside the catholic church! The No. 2 Vatican official said the raids were unprecedented even under communism. Yes, it was because the freedom world given again and again chances for the vatican to turn out those criminals but Vatican has nothing happened!
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Triumvere
Really? The Pope works tirelessly to give the impression that he deplores investigations into sex abuse more than the abuse itself. Another PR triumph.
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TheQuestion
The computers I can understand but cracking open a tomb?
He seems to take more issue with the method rather than the motive. Getting a court order for a search and and seizure of the computers is one thing but holding the chuch officials, drilling into a burial chamber, and taking confidential information is another entierly. The current sex abuse fiasco needs equal involvement between civil and canon authorities to be successful.
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DXXJP
Ah but if they were Muslims suspected of terror plots this behavior would be perfectly fine. If Bin Laden said he was deplored by the raids we would tell him to piss off.
I really dont see the difference, in fact I would rather be blown up then the victim of these priests.
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Kapuna
Why open a tomb? Need more info on this matter.
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PeaceWarrior
Actually, the church is saying that they are not above the law, but they are wondering if the raids were actually proportional to the crime (their words, not mine). Plus, of course, the negative publicity and emotional aspect of seeing the raids worldwide.
I think that in the case of paedophilia, the justice department should be in charge and lead the way, not the commission headed by Peter Adriaenssens (I heard he actually resigned today over the raid). Go on, continue the raids, before the world is sold that the guilty are victims!
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TheQuestion
The Church is among the best organizations in the world at keeping thing secret and the only way any of the guilty priests are going to see justice is if authorities throughout Europe can count on the Church for information and assistance. Displays of force like this will only make the investigations harder in the long run.
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PeaceWarrior
Indeed, TheQuestion,
The question (no pun intended) is to find out who did what, when and where and the 'juge d’instruction' (the judge in the case) has complete freedom and independence in the case so he ordered the raids. I am pretty happy about that. In Canada, the Mount Cashel investigation was curtailed in many ways by the police and the Dept. of Justice and none of the when/what/where etc. was discovered until much, much later.
It's difficult to count on the church for information and assistance. I'm glad they aren't doing that in Belgium.
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TheQuestion
Well thus far their efforts have done a couple of things. They've taken a few older computers and some confidential files of abuse claims that the bishops were reviewing, stepped on the toes of the independent investigation that was going on, defamed the tomb of a Cardinal, and found absolutly nothing.
A more measured responce would have gone over better. I don't think anybody would have complained if the police had taken the computers and the files but detaining the bishops and drilling holes into a tomb was unneccessary.
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bubzabub
This Catholic Bashing must be stopped
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martinli92
Not bashing the Catholic but bashing those hiding criminals who has been on free run for decades! The pope is still hiding these peopel to save his face! Whats the time now...Medieval today?
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MistWizard
PeaceWarrior, I think it is waaaaaay early to compare this with the Mount Cashel deal.
martini92, it is unlikely the Pope is hiding anyone. Most of the cases involve allegations that were never proven. You don't throw a priest out on an unproven allegation or even a mere suspicion. That is witch hunting time but that is exactly what some of you are asking for. Some cases are dirty, yes, but they are the extreme minority.
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jruaustralia
How is this raid indecent?! Investigations had been dealt with by both police and canon law “respecting their reciprocal specificity and autonomy.”
If the Church wanted to play defensive-- fine, but don't argue separation of 'Church and State'!
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jruaustralia
Ah, suppressing the probable cause is actually just the start of it! Which means, the Belgians are only just beginning to ask =/
If the Belgian Catholics just wanted the investigators to act gullible and dismissive of police operations, then tough luck.
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TheQuestion
The seized nearly 500 confidential case files made by abuse victims that didn't want their ordeal to be made public record. Before quitting the abuse commission in protest of being raided and used as bait Peter Adriaenssens said, "I'm mostly shocked for all these people who gave us their trust. And up until [Wednesday] evening, if they'd asked me is it possible that they [the police] would arrive [at his offices] and take everything away, just take everything away, I would have reassured them [that this would not happen]. We received e-mails, telephone calls in the past few hours from people who are panicking about what will happen with their private details. Will their parents find out? Will they read their story in the newspapers? Will their spouse, who wasn't really aware, now find out via the media or the justice department?"
Its not so different from a the police taking confidential recordings and notes from a therapists office. The case files were given in confidence that they would not be handed over to the Belgian authorities without the consent of the damaged parties.
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jruaustralia
The case seems explosive in nature, but the Church doesn't need to be aware of any impending charges for the Belgian authorities to raid a property. A legitimate purpose for the raid can be suppressed-- the Church can argue otherwise, in court-- what's trivial of course about this raid was how the Belgian media arrived 30 mins before the police squad. This certainly adds to the flippant nature of this raid.
Whilst the Church would want to trivialize the raid, it wasn't indecent in my opinion. If the Belgian authorities have supporting evidences in their hands-- prima facie evidences to trigger a raid-- then this raid was legitimate.
For the Belgian police I'm sure Mr Adriaenssens' concerns are the least of their worries. I believe he was appointed to deal with the closure part of the so-called healing process, not to act as legal representation for the Church.
As to the files seized by the Belgian authorities, I can safely assume that these files can be used only as corroborating facts. The court can simply suppress the identities of people fearing that their identities will be made public.
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Madverts
"Not bashing the Catholic but bashing those hiding criminals who has been on free run for decades!"
Not just criminals, but child-sex monsters. Hidden and protected, thousands of cases. And these are only cases that came to light, which surely means there are more. Many more.
The whole church is a disgrace for this matter. Who cares if the pope "deplores" it, he's head of the ring in my opnion. Send UN troops into the Vatican, let's find what else they're hiding in there.
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PeaceWarrior
I agree, the point was that at that way too early stage, in 75, the police and the Dept. of Justice concealed the problem in Canada but it doesn't seem to be that way in Belgium. I support those efforts.
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YuriOtani
Still do not know why the arrested the Bishops and their staffs? Yes being held against your will is being arrested. Add desecration of a grave as well. This is Catholic bashing at its best. This to me is the mother church under attack by the government of Belgian.
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TheQuestion
One can only hope that the courts have the decency to keep the records out of the public eye, however that's rarely the case.
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jruaustralia
No, the court can easily suppress the identities of people (John Doe, etc). The court will normally entertain what's relevant to their proceedings.
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jruaustralia
**The court will normally entertain what's relevant only to their proceedings.
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