Pope, in Israel, confronts dark history of Germany
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makabi
wellcom to sunny israel dear pope. the reason why the pope went to visit the family of the kidnaped soldeir gilad shalit,and not the family of one of the 11,000 arabs in isralei jails,is that unklike gilad shalit,those 11,000 arabs were arrested,charged and sentence according to the law,and they enjoy the privilge of a prisiner,they get to see a lawer,their family can come and visit them,they can communicat in the mail and study in get education nad graduate while in jail,they have tv,dvd,radio,internet,and as members of the patach party,they also get a salary while their are in jail from the p.a.i dont how much the hamas,or the jihad,or the liberal front pays,it got be much less since they dont get finance from europ and israel like the p.a dose. gilad shalit dosent enjoy any of those rights,infact,there isnt any evidence that he is even alive.
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teleprompter
The 'darkness' may have emanated from Germany but most of Europe willingly kept themselves in it.
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FromEurope
makabi - What are you trying to explain ? Prison is still a prison whatever they can have. What you describe is in most of the prisons of the developped countries. Nothing special, but none of the prisoners wishes to stay if they don't have to. The prison is the place where they take your liberty, which is the most important thing in our life. ( do whatever you want, at any time you want, go anywhere you wish or to be with the beloved ones )
The problem is that nobody knows if those 11000 Palestinian prisoners were arrested with a good reason and if they were judged correctly.
Moderator: Keep the discussion focused on the pope's visit, please.
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skipthesong
Man, this pope is one hell of a butt kisser.
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Sarge
Skip - Man, you ust dissed the Pope!
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TheQuestion
Probably because the Pope's security detail thought it would be to great a risk. I also highly doubt that Hamas would provide the level of security that the IDF offers.
And of course the Pope uses neutral language like 'kill' rather than 'murder'. In the past four years he's been blasted for every slip of the tongue he's made so he plays it safe.
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skipthesong
Man, this pope is one hell of a butt kisser." So, I won't go to heaven? Hey, if the other pope can forgive a guy who tried to kill him, what can't this one give me a pass?
Look, he knows damn well that is an independent state just for the Palestinians, breaking Israel into a bunch of parts would mean that Israel is not going to exist. Hamas does not want peace with Israel and neither does any of her supporters. It would just amount to the Jew having to go find yet another homeland. The Muslims have Mecca, Madina, etc and billions of miles of what is considered Islamic homeland.. The Christians have the Vatican, the entire Western Hemisphere.. and the Jews have what?
There is a rise of anti-semitism happening and this pope is acting just like the pope during WWII.
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sabiwabi
While the pope confronts the dark history of his native Germany, I hope he will also confront head-on the even darker history of Israel and shake the hands of survivors of the Palestinian Holocaust.
Jews already had Birobidjan; there was never any need for a second Jewish homeland.
The Palestinians only had little Palestine, which the zionists destroyed. There is no rise in anti-semitism, only a well-deserved rise in anti-zionism.
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teleprompter
It wasn't "Palestine" till after '67, when the Leftover Arabs lost their second all out war of genocide against the Jews in Israel.
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skipthesong
Jews already had Birobidjan; there was never any need for a second Jewish homeland." Yeah, the whole 70k of them... there was never any need for a second Jewish homeland." Ah, and only you have the right to say that?
There is no rise in anti-semitism, only a well-deserved rise in anti-zionism." Well, I really hope the pope makes that clear that once you destroy Israel, which will happen, eventually, you basically destroyed Judaism. Biro-what-ever is nothing more than an Arab community in Queens, NY, so there is no real need for yet another millionth Islamic homeland.?
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skipthesong
nobody visited the world's largest concentration camp just 50kms away, Gaza. big difference. The Jews were put to death for no reason of their own. The people of Gaza do have some fault as to why they are there and in the conditions that they are in.
I think its quite disgusting trying to paralleling the two. Maybe that is why the pope cut short the path.
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WilliB
Skipthesong:
To call Gaza a "concentration camp" is either a cynical joke or a demonstration of total ignorance of history.
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sabiwabi
No, it was Palestine for many centuries, look it up.
Indeed, the Nazi camps were terrible mainly because of the destruction of Germany by allied bombings (i.e, a consequence of the war). The Gazan concentration camp is terrible due to Israeli blockades and Israeli bombings (i.e., deliberate).
I agree with skip that "its quite disgusting trying to paralleling the two".
Lau wanted to hear 6 million murdered. If the pope was honest he would have said several thousands died, mainly from disease. But then, someone would have certainly shot him on the spot.
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Den Den
"Benedict served in the Hitler Youth corps as a young man in Germany and then in the army before deserting near the end of the war." It was compulsary for all German youth to this. Does this make every German a Nazi? What sensationalism.
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Den Den
skipthesong. The pol gram of Jews in Europe was related to racism, jealousy and scape-goatism. They were innocent. The people of Gaza, living in the worlds largest concentration camp, are the victims of a racism, land-grabbing, and a religiously motivated nation, that is highly educated, wealthy and the majority have suffered displacement and Oppression over 60 years ago in Europe. There is no excuse for Israeli crimes, they should know better. The popee should tell them so...
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skipthesong
Den Den: No, many in the area we coerced to leave by the invading Arab armies at the time. You are trying to use this racism to advance your conversation. Why do you and the Pope deliberately leave the other Arab nations out of the equation?
They are not victims of racism and that is so low of an accusation. Is that what you must come down to, cry racism and everyone is supposed to stop in their tracks? How do you, of all religions, blame Jews for land grabbing. Besides, That land would not have been grabbed if it wasn't sacrificed by the invading Arab armies... I think what we are witnessing is anti-semitism, vieled under a desguise of sorrow and understand because that is what people are listening too. Besides, since when has the pope been liked? Now, you want to pat him on the back and considered him down with your crew? Now that we got the pope on board the Roman Catholic church thinks it will win some points
You know what, I give up. I'm joining you and Sabi just for the hell of it from now on.. I might as well. Since I am always accused of being such a right winger, I might as well and join the most right winger of right wingers!
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USARonin
The United Nations created the State of Israel.
And then disowned and began abusin' her decades ago.
-Shameful parental conduct.
Moderator: Readers, stay on topic please. The subject is the pope's visit.
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Madverts
Nah, Ben-Gurion declared the establishment of the State of Israel on 14 May 1948.
Quite a remarkable geezer.
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skipthesong
The United Nations created the State of Israel." No, they helped it to become a state. It's not like there were no Jews there before. And the Pope of all people should know that
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TheQuestion
Did anyone even take the time to find out that it was Cardinal Martino and not the Pope to make the 'concentration camp' statement? While the Pope, for his part, has condemned violence on both sides and historically has supported the need of a Jewish state.
And as for sabiwabi and Den Den, I'll thank the two of you if you refrain from using the Pope, or any Vatican official for that matter, to justify your anti-Semitism. It's, quite frankly, insulting.
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Helter_Skelter
One of the principle reasons White supremacists and neo-Nazis like David Duke hate the Jews is because of their promotion of multiculturalism and diversity. The Jews have a long record of being leaders in civil rights movements, especially during the sixties. They are predominately liberal. And Israel itself is a multicultural society with Whites, Blacks, Asians, Arabs, and all religions. So this accusation of racism against the Jews is certainly counterintuitive.
It's the Arab Muslims who have a record of intolerance and anti-Semitism. They're the ones burning synagogues and cleansing Jews from Arab soil. Jihad, Infidel, and Dhimmitude are Muslim concepts. The plight of the "Palestinians" is more a consequence of failing to eliminate the state of Israel in order to rid the ME of Jews. So if it's racism being discussed here, then the people of Gaza are the victims of their own racism.
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Madverts
"It's the Arab Muslims who have a record of intolerance and anti-Semitism. "
How can Arabs be anti-semite when they are semites themselves?
Or is this simply a similar mentality of certain Americans praying for Obama to scuttle the US to prove the GOP rules?
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