Putin says Snowden at Moscow airport; rejects extradition request from U.S.

China and Russia aren't going to get involved in this. The best they can do is get Snowden out of their county as fast as possible and let it be someone else's problem.

This will go far in promoting U.S.-Russia relations if Putin refuses to hand over a fugitive in his custody to the U.S.

What have the revelations by this traitor done to improve world safety? Nothing. And this lunatic who thinks he is a hero is going to hide in Ecuador too, along with that another original lunatic Assange. They think they were macho enough to betray their nations, but in reality they're not macho enough to face law. Cowards.

Putin very nicely gave Obama the finger.

SerranoJun. 26, 2013 - 07:27AM JST This will go far in promoting U.S.-Russia relations if Putin refuses to hand over a fugitive in his custody to the U.S.

If it really wants the cooperation of China and Russia, the Obama administration should stop its public scoldings of Russia. Russia with Putin has been the more vocal in criticizing Western moves because of Obama.

Serrano the Russians will not hand over him to the Americans. President Putin would lose face and be shown to give into American threats. Yes threats that include threats to Russian civilian airliners in flight. The Americans are acting like bullies again. Threats to Mainland China, Hong Kong SAR and Russian Federation. Add threats to Republic of Ecuador, Republic of Cuba and Republic of Venezuela. So tell me why the USA has been hacking into the computers of it friend the Nation of Japan? If I were Snowden would ask for political asylum in Russia. The South American countries are not safe as the Americans will disregard the countries sovereignty to kidnap or kill him.

I grow tired of these traitors to the US, our Bill of Rights, the Constitution, the supreme law of the land. Snowmen is a hero exposing the police state the soon as become. Anyone who says different should renounce their citizenship and join another country.

This will go far in promoting U.S.-Russia relations if Putin refuses to hand over a fugitive in his custody to the U.S.

As Putin said, he isn't 'in' Russia technically because he hasn't gone through immigration there. He is in transit so they can't just go and grab him because the Americans want him. If the Americans want to do that, let them go right ahead.

"Meanwhile, Snowden told the South China Morning Post in a story published Tuesday that he joined contractor Booz Allen Hamilton, from which he stole secrets on NSA surveillance programs, specially to gain access to sensitive information and spill it to the press."

"Snowmen [sic] is a hero..."

Might not be such a hero if he turns out to be a foreign agent.

The U.S.A. is rapidly becoming the totalitarian state that the USSR was under Stalin.

Secret police, detention without trial, the government spying on its citizens.

But it's good to know that there are people like Snowden who will stand up to this and let the people know.

I hope he gets to somewhere safe.

It's not as if he did anything wrong. All he did was to draw the curtains and shine some light on his government's lies and dirty dealings.

He, Manning and Assange are heros.

I wish there were more.

Ya gots to love a President who says things like:

“It’s the same as shearing a piglet: there’s a lot of squealing and not much wool,”

Yay! Putin. Boo! Emerging American Police State.

It's not as if he did anything wrong. All he did was to draw the curtains and shine some light on his government's lies and dirty dealings.

that's the whole point - he has simply embarrassed the US with his supposed "revelations" .... the release of the Pentagon Papers in the 70's contained far more damaging material than anything Manning, Assange etc have ever produced.....

It's amusing to hear the hypocrites defend the actions of the State and attack Snowden for exposing their hypocrisy. Oh, how far the once exemplary nation(gubmint) has fallen, nay, betrayed the citizenry since the Lincoln administration.

YuriOtani: The Americans are acting like bullies again. Threats to Mainland China, Hong Kong SAR and Russian Federation.

The US has agreements with these countries for handling criminals. Having the other side perform on it's obligations isn't really a threat. You are projecting your emotions onto the issue.

So tell me why the USA has been hacking into the computers of it friend the Nation of Japan?

What's to stop Snowden from saying this even if it's not true? You'd believe him in a second with no evidence.

If I were Snowden would ask for political asylum in Russia.

Sure, because people who are supposedly motivated by government transparency would have no problems heading to Russia, right? Some of us in the West have become lazy and spoiled and we think our problems actually compare to the ones in actual police states. Talk to the Russian band members who were thrown in jail for years and let them know that the US is just like Russia. Then see how long it takes them to stop laughing.

The South American countries are not safe as the Americans will disregard the countries sovereignty to kidnap or kill him.

It's in the US's best interests to keep him alive. Snowden could be at the zoo and a lion could get out and kill him and people would insist that the lion was on the CIA payroll. This whole "the CIA will kill him" is a fantasy for his supporters. Snowden knows this so he keeps selling the fantasy.

"Speaking in Jeddah, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry called for Russia to be “calm” and hand over Snowden, saying Washington was not looking for “confrontation.”"

Perhaps the US shouldn't have been illegally spying on its own citizens and worse yet people in other countries. They are worse than China, whom they claim violate human rights all time. Hypocrites! What country that does not have an expedition treaty would hand over Snowden after what he has revealed to be US lies and hypocrisy, not to mention said human rights abuses? Plus they get the benefit of humiliating the US, as the US should be humiliated on this, and watch the US government crap their pants and run around begging under veiled threats!

smithinjapanJun. 26, 2013 - 08:40AM JSTPerhaps the US shouldn't have been illegally spying on its own citizens and worse yet people in other countries. They are worse than China, whom they claim violate human rights all time.

If they're worse then China, maybe you should move to China. This is rather ridiculous. Governments know and the people know that just about every state spies on every other state. The only people who seem surprised are the media who want to turn this into a circus.

I wonder if the US would actually resort to forcing a Russian plane to divert to an airport on American soil to arrest him... that'd certainly spark off a bit of a diplomatic row.

If Snowden was a Russian, exposing to the world that Russia was illegaly spying on nations around the world as well as at home, he'd probably get the Congressional Medal of Honor.

Talk to the Russian band members who were thrown in jail for years and let them know that the US is just like Russia.

Are you talking about "Pussy Riot" ?

On March 3, 2012, two of the group members, Nadezhda Tolokonnikova and Maria Alyokhina, were arrested and charged with hooliganism. A third member, Yekaterina Samutsevich, was arrested on March 16. Denied bail, they were held in custody until their trial began in late July. On August 17, 2012, the three members were convicted of hooliganism motivated by religious hatred, and each was sentenced to two years imprisonment.[7][8][9] Two other members of the group, who escaped arrest after February's protest, reportedly left Russia fearing prosecution.[citation needed] On October 10, following an appeal, Samutsevich was freed on probation, her sentence suspended. The sentences of the other two women were upheld.[10] In late October 2012, Alyokhina and Tolokonnikova were separated and sent to prison.[11]

Edward Snowden is "free" from his crappy (illegal) Gov spy job. From now on every day of his life will be better. I'm sure the people he left being at the NSA are under serious surveillance now and their jobs have become pure hell.

“It’s the same as shearing a piglet: there’s a lot of squealing and not much wool,” he said.

HA!HA!HA!.... may I use this line?

I so not like traitors. But since this traitor has already done the damage, I would advice the NSA to change their protocol and to change the way their contractors get sensitive information. And PLEASE do not allow anyone to leave NSA premises with laptops.

Putin very nicely gave Obama the finger.

Because Obama is spineless and has NO backbone! So what do you expect.

@Yuri and gsosbee

ROFL

@bertie

The U.S.A. is rapidly becoming the totalitarian state that the USSR was under Stalin.

You have said this a million times in your posting. Totalitarian, lol, hardly.

Secret police, detention without trial, the government spying on its citizens.

When 9/11 happened, Bush came under fire for not doing enough, supposedly, but NOW with Homeland, CIA and NSA firmly in place listening protecting us from future attacks, you guys whine again. And yes, Bertie, Terrorists without a trail as they have no rights.

But it's good to know that there are people like Snowden who will stand up to this and let the people know.

I know you want people out in the field and Americans to be attacked, possible.

I hope he gets to somewhere safe.

I really hope he gets solitary or...

It's not as if he did anything wrong. All he did was to draw the curtains and shine some light on his government's lies and dirty dealings.

He did a lot wrong, so much so, he opened a can of worms NOT only for him, but he put his family also under the spotlight and now they have to come to the realization that they may never see their son again. If anyone thinks that Snowden will live a happily ever after life is living in the world of Oz.

He, Manning and Assange are heros.

I never thought of a hero living in an Embassy for the foreseeable future is something to look up to.

I wish there were more.

I too, wish there were more tougher and stricter penalties for crazed, vile lunatics!

@smith

Question, what is it that you liberals have against the government (NSA) listening to your conversations. I'm fine with it and sleep real good at night. How is it affecting you. You think, you'll get a knock on the door and get arrested? LOL The only thing I care about is my country being safe, if that means, they have to listen to my crappy calls and check my pc HD of all the Thor comics I have, so be it! But if you have something to hide, then maybe you should be outraged. lol

bass4funk how does America use their bases in Japan to spy on Japan? The American government is making lie after lie, why should we believe them? The Americans are in Japan to protect Japan or so they say. Have they threatened the government of Japan over Okinawa?

Gérard Depardieu was offered, and accepted a Russian passport... Maybe Mr. Snowden will get one too ?

Mr.Obama is spineless?? And who killed off the leader of Al Qaeda?? Not BUSH!! Anyway, Eric Snowden is not only a true American hero, ready to show the world the stupidity and greed conjured up by Bush, Cheney, Ronnie Dummyfell, etc...all??? REPUBLICAN bastards with BLOOD on their fat sweaty hands!! So, only a ding bat cannot recognize the corrupt nature of Washington DC under Republican rule, me thinks. Now, Poor Mr.Obama has lots of egg on his face,but hey this is the nature of politics, right??

I for one, believe Snowden should face trial. No matter how many of us thinks he displayed courageous integrity, he broke the law it seems. That said, America if you want him back, get your act together, don't just bully states and countries with your accusatins of "damaging relations".

Fact: The a request was made by the US Government to the HK Government to issue a proviwsional arrst warrant for Snowden. on the 15th June. It identified Snowden by his name, Edward James Snowden. Sorry, immigration records only showed am Edward Joseph Snowden entering HK. Furthermore, your US Court documents refer to him as Edward J Snowden. So who do you want us to arrest? At least you could provide a passport number right?

Fact: A request for the clairification on the charges against Snowden were submitted to US Officials by the HK Government. A fair request not? Surely the authorities need to know what charges he is being arrested on. The US never responded to HK by the time Snowden left.

I'm sorry but the American Government only has itself to blame thus far I think...

It seems that Russia would not do anything at all about him for the US, as well as China did not capture him. What the US can do is possibly would rather shoot him than looking for extradition. There are American agents all over the world.

@dicehk

I for one, believe Snowden should face trial. No matter how many of us thinks he displayed courageous integrity, he broke the law it seems.

It's only by breaking the law that freedom and fairness are attained. Nelson Mandela broke South African law, the Irish freedom fighters broke UK law, anti-Nazis broke German law.

Bad laws deserve no respect.

kwatt, assassinating him would be a very BAD thing! We now know the US government was spying against its own citizens, allies, other countries or everyone! I want them to explain why they are doing it and to show the program ends. Now when they claim that the Chinese are hacking they have no room to complain. I really want to know if the USA has hacked the SDF computers?

Anyone who knows about Putin also knows that this guy does what he wants regardless of international opinion. It is one of the perks of being a successful pseudo dictator.

But this time I am in agreement with Putin. Russia has no agreement. So they are not bound in any way to comply with anything the US asks on this point. The US knows this and in truth does not expect his help. They know better. But have to put on a surprised and unhappy fact in public.

@Yuri

how does America use their bases in Japan to spy on Japan?

Don't know, I am a Journalist, don't work for the NSA or CIA, ask them, but I doubt that they will tell you since it's a SECRET.

The American government is making lie after lie, why should we believe them?

And Snowden is telling the truth, you can undeniably say that??? Without a shadow of a doubt?

The Americans are in Japan to protect Japan or so they say. Have they threatened the government of Japan over Okinawa?

So you think if the US and Japan were to terminate the SOFA agreement, Japan is in the best of conditions to protect itself from ANY emanating possible threat, no matter how big? China, North Korea? Be careful before you answer.

@El

Mr.Obama is spineless?? And who killed off the leader of Al Qaeda?? Not BUSH!!

You do know that Obama did meet up with Bush and asked for advice as to how and the best way to get him and Bush was the one in getting Obama to use the best of the best SEAL Team in the world, so Yes, Obama with the help of Bush did work together in getting OBL, but SEAL Team 6 pulled the trigger, so those guys get the high five.

Anyway, Eric Snowden is not only a true American hero, ready to show the world the stupidity and greed conjured up by Bush, Cheney, Ronnie Dummyfell, etc...all???

Again, Cheney, Bush and Rumsfeld are gone, retired, enjoying their lives for the last 5 years, history. Focus on the man in the WH now. Who is the President NOW? Keep your focus on that.

REPUBLICAN bastards with BLOOD on their fat sweaty hands!! So, only a ding bat cannot recognize the corrupt nature of Washington DC under Republican rule, me thinks.

Wait? Which admin. was the one that ratcheted up and put these surveillance programs on steroids, which admin. were spying on Conservatives, the IRS trying to use their powers to block and defund groups like the Tea party wire tap a Journalist, hacking into his email account and on and on.

NOT the Republicans. Check your year and calendar.

Now, Poor Mr.Obama has lots of egg on his face,but hey this is the nature of politics, right??

You said it.

Maybe you think Snowden is a great guy, fine. But what gets me, if you are that anti-American, why people like you and Yuri live there. I just don't get that.

Ha!! George Washington broke the law to.

@Yuri

The US will take the last option, as it always did in the past, to protect the US government's top secrets if the US faced the deadlock of anything.

I never thought of a hero living in an Embassy for the foreseeable future is something to look up to.

a tad subjective, Bass4Funk? Are these cases more palatable to you?

Cardinal Mindszenty, holed up in Bucharest's US Embassy 1956-1971: exiled in Austria; Soviet Lt. Col. Hayhanen, in US Embassy in Paris for 1956-1957: exiled in USA; (anti-fascist) Gen. Humberto Delgado sought refuge in Brazil Embassy, Lisbon, 1959: exiled in Brazil;

(Pentecostals) The Siberian Seven, US Embassy Moscow, 1978-1983: exiled in USA Tiananmen dissident Fang Lizhi, US Embassy Beijing, 1989-1990: exiled in USA

Morgan Tsvangirai, Netherlands Embassy, Harare, 2008: negotiated role as Prime Minister in coalition.

To the Soviets, the Portuguese dictatorship, Chinese government and Robert Mugabe, these people weren't heroes either.

YuriOtani

I really want to know if the USA has hacked the SDF computers?

No need to. Any of your classified info with any value is already out on Winny...

What's his next destination? Iceland?

What you all have to realize is that the US GOV will only do the right thing AS A LAST RESORT. That's how it's always been since at least the days of Lincoln.

@LostinNagoya

What have the revelations by this traitor done to improve world safety? Nothing. And this lunatic who thinks he is a hero is going to hide in Ecuador too, along with that another original lunatic Assange. They think they were macho enough to betray their nations, but in reality they're not macho enough to face law. Cowards.

I couldn't agree more!

In the movie some hardened US agent (range from Bruce Willis thru Matt Damon or Gerard Butler to Vin Diesel) sneaks into the "transit area" and offs Snowden, thereby nmaking the world safe for democracy again and reinstilling the values of "freedom" and "rule of law".

@Elbuda MexicanoMr.Obama is spineless?? And who killed off the leader of Al Qaeda?? A member of Seal Team 6, NOT obama!! Anyway.

Back on topic please.

I'm rooting for an American on the run in Russia and the Russian President, a former KGB man, is the good guy... how times have changed!

Many have called Snowden a traitor but in 10 years time when the US uses the millions of rounds of rounds it bought that are banned by the Geneva Convention to use in war but to use against its own citizens (you can read about his in the papers) then you may say I wish we listed to that Snowden guy instead of calling him a traitor.

Edward Snowden has NOT committed treason under U.S. law. His actions are that of a whistleblower, not a traitor. If you feel betrayed, that's too damned bad. The NSA lied to Congress, while Snowden is telling the world the truth. I have to applaud President Putin for snubbing Obama & his gang of dirty players.

Edward Snowden has NOT committed treason under U.S. law. His actions are that of a whistleblower, not a traitor.

That's just absurd! Of course, he is a traitor and a Whistleblower. I don't recall him getting permission from his former employer to go out and run and hide in HK to tell the world government intel. Snowden is a narcissistic basket case that craves attention and should be locked up forever.

If you feel betrayed, that's too damned bad.

I feel bad for his family, because, they will NEVER see their son free again. He betrayed them as well. Now that's a real shame.

The NSA lied to Congress, while Snowden is telling the world the truth.

How do YOU know without a shadow of a doubt that everything that Snowden is saying is truthful?

I have to applaud President Putin for snubbing Obama & his gang of dirty players.

That comment was beyond stupid, I'm not even going to respond to that. ROFL

To believe that any government has your best interests in mind is ridiculous. If Snowden is a lair and fake, why are they so worried about what info he has? Its sounds like many people could get caught with their hands in the cookie jar. It doesn't seem like hes been blurting out national secrets, apart from the so called one that we are all being watched with out any limits or controls. Sounds pretty important that that kind of info be made known don't you think.

Ok, we can go on and on about who is to BLAME for this mess, but at the end of the day, we have an American citizen who is none too happy with his government and now is in RUSSIA!! Can the USA do anything?? NO!! Maybe Cheney etc..is rolling over in his grave?? I hope so! He is not yet under ground and dead?? Well I am sure a real warm place down in HELL is waiting for the likes of him! Eric kun, will most likely go down a real American hero!

He's a modern day warrior who has kept his pride.

U.S. - Grrrr Grrrrr Give US Snowden. China - Hi Hi He went to RUSSIA. RUSSIA - Khi Khi Khi, Free Man is here...

I just want people to understand what is real and what isn't, and also understand the need that some things do need to stay classified. It's alarming to me that his supporters will stand with China on one side and Russia on the other and cheer him on. That shows a lack of integrity.

If his claims to turn out to be true, and if the US is violating US law and international law, then I wouldn't mind seeing him pardoned. But that examination hasn't happened yet. The government will abuse power if you give too much to them, but on the other hand Snodwen's supporters seem to believe anything that comes out of his mouth. The amount of people I've heard say the US government is listening to their phone calls shows an alarming amount of ignorance. And it's really surprising to hear so many people say the CIA is just going to kill him. Total disconnect from reality.

The government is doing the only thing it can do right now, which is to bring him in. They can't make it seem it's OK for people to publish classified information. I'd like to see him brought in. If we can verify the information then I'd like to see a pardon

How do YOU know without a shadow of a doubt that everything that Snowden is saying is truthful?

Repeat my mantra, deny my fear. Repeat my mantra, deny my fear. Repeat my mantra, deny my fear.

Snowdon is a hero for revealing what we have many of us suspected for years that our own Government in the US has become prey to the radical liberal agenda that considers nothing sacred and has violated the rights of not only Americans by spying illegally and widely but also all those from other countries who also suffered. I hope they put the NSA leaders in prison for a long time and expect that the world including all right minded true americans will support Snowden and not allow the Gestapo politics of the Obama cabal to rule. Time for change and an impeachment.

sfpj: "If they're worse then China, maybe you should move to China."

Why? I don't live in the US. In any case, saying one is WORSE than the other is using the comparitive tense. It does not mean the other is good by any means. One's bad, the other worse -- and all the MORE worse for claiming moral superiority while doing exactly what it condemns.

"This is rather ridiculous. Governments know and the people know that just about every state spies on every other state"

Then why did they so adamantly deny it? And what's with all the panic?

"The only people who seem surprised are the media who want to turn this into a circus"

It is a circus, and the big top is the White House, with the clowns being the government officials who lied, denied, and are now jumping through hoops while the audience laughs.

The point is that the United States has been spying on Japan. We are suppose to be friends yes? Do friends spy on their friends? What other misdeeds is the American government doing to its friends. The US says to China and Russia they want to be friends while conducting a massive computer hacking program against them. That is an act of war not friendship. Now the USA wants Russia to do them a favor, gee really? There is no legal agreement for Russia to turn him over to the Americans. As for who is telling the truth, Snowden has the US documents and other information. The proof is in the pudding, it would be criminal stupid for Russia not to look at the information. The Russian Federation is under attack by the United States. So tell me Americans why should Russia give back someone and the information that will help them defend their country from American attack?

lucabrasi,

I wonder if the US would actually resort to forcing a Russian plane to divert to an airport on American soil to arrest him...

Probably not, because, as you state, it would cause a helluva diplomatic row.

But I wouldn't put it past them to send a drone after him.

This whole story is getting curiouser and curiouser.

I'm beginning to wonder what else Snowden knows about.

I was tickled by John Kerry's defending of the United States' actions by saying Snowden should make stops in Iran and Syria if he thinks the US is such totalitarian state. Straight to the straw man arguments and deflections. The fact that the US government is spying on it's citizens, while that same government charges those that would have the people know about it with... espionage. Sounds like the Obama administration's logic train left the station a LONG time ago.

bass4funk: "Question, what is it that you liberals have against the government (NSA) listening to your conversations. I'm fine with it and sleep real good at night. How is it affecting you."

Not surprisingly, you completely miss the point as usual. People like yourself condemn nations like China and NK for spying on its citizens, then turn around and praise your government for doing the exact same thing after they lie, deny, and then have to admit it when caught red-handed, as with when Snowden revealed what he did. If hypocrisy helps you sleep well at night, then all the power to you, though it won't lead to any trust, productivity, or in this case with the US infringing on the human rights and breaking the constitution not only with its own nationals, but spying on people in other nations as well.

"You think, you'll get a knock on the door and get arrested? LOL"

And again, you attempt to undermine merely to deflect from the facts. Your nation has utterly EMBARRASSED itself (again)!

"But if you have something to hide, then maybe you should be outraged. lol"

No, you should be outraged that you have been lied to by this and past governments who are no better than the likes of governments you love to abhor.

YuriOtani: "The point is that the United States has been spying on Japan."

Would this still bother you if it were every country under the sun EXCEPT Japan? My guess is no. And THAT is part of the point.

It's only by breaking the law that freedom and fairness are attained. Nelson Mandela broke South African law, the Irish freedom fighters broke UK law, anti-Nazis broke German law.

Lucabrasi,, I'm not passing judgement on whether he's right or wrong, ie I'm not calling him a traitor. He did break the law in displaying courageous integrity. But in so doing he needs to stand up for what he did. Nelson Mandela went jail in a regime which people knew were wrong and he was prepared to do so, knowing what he did would be judged right by generations then and now.

Then

Obama to press China's Xi to act against cyber spying.... Barack Obama promised that the US would have tough talk with China over cyber espionage.... Cyberspying in the context of diplomatic relations with China

Now

US ordering China and Russia, GIVE US SNOWDEN, pls pls pls, pleassssse, pls pls pls

People loves this kind of chase stories, the government is certainly playing the game, it helps reduce the coverage on what his revealed. All the lights are on him and his track now.

@Yuri

And that's ok, When the day comes that a Russian stool pigeon defects to the US, we'll return the favor, quite simple, they don't forget and neither will we.

@El

Maybe Cheney etc..is rolling over in his grave?? I hope so! He is not yet under ground and dead?? Well I am sure a real warm place down in HELL is waiting for the likes of him! Eric kun, will most likely go down a real American hero!

You remind me of my uncle who really believes that platform shoes and bell bottoms will make a serious comeback. Update! Cheney is doing fine, looks great, amazing! Got a brand new heart, again, please stay within current events. Look at the person running the ship now. Eric won't go down a hero. A lunatic maybe, a fringe wannabe, but that's it.

@bertie

But I wouldn't put it past them to send a drone after him.

You need to stop watching "24"

@smith

Not surprisingly, you completely miss the point as usual.

Hardly, unlike Liberals, I stay away from Kool-aid! Bad for your health.

People like yourself condemn nations like China and NK for spying on its citizens,

NOT because they spy on them to protect the country. I condemn them, because if they want to speak out for FREEdom and want to open their society or want to be able to choose to live their lives the way they want and to have an open press and NOT to have filtered information and to be afraid to use words like; Democracy, Freedom and Human Rights, That is what I object to!

then turn around and praise your government for doing the exact same thing after they lie, deny, and then have to admit it when caught red-handed, as with when Snowden revealed what he did.

I only have a problem that the IRS was targeting conservatives for political purposes, other than that, I was fine with it. I just don't want to see government organization like the IRS or NSA surveying and targeting one political group for partisan politics. That's what I don't want.

If hypocrisy helps you sleep well at night, then all the power to you, though it won't lead to any trust, productivity, or in this case with the US infringing on the human rights and breaking the constitution not only with its own nationals, but spying on people in other nations as well.

Hypocrisy is when liberals are up and arms about something that they don't need to worry about. But now that it is a Democratic President, doesn't sit with you guys at all, before you guys harped on Bush and conservatives and now you guys don't want to blame Obama, you want to blame THE ENTIRE country is now the problem but a low life piece of work drop out like Snowden is seen as a hero???? ROFL Yeah, it stinks of real hypocrisy!

Well it certainly looks like Christmas has come early for the anti-Americans.

bass4funk: "That comment was beyond stupid, I'm not even going to respond to that. ROFL"

Oops, except you just DID respond to it, didn't you?

"Hypocrisy is when liberals are up and arms about something that they don't need to worry about."

Perhaps you ought to ask for a dictionary for Christmas, because that is not hypocrisy at all.

"But now that it is a Democratic President, doesn't sit with you guys at all, before you guys harped on Bush and conservatives and now you guys don't want to blame Obama"

Sorry, but what part of calling the White House (as in, the current government) a circus and the government jumping through hoops, and downright saying Obama is ruined because of this, etc. (on previous threads) is 'not wanting to blame Obama'? On the contrary, when this first came out you literally said you supported Bush and Cheney's illegal wiretaps but did not support Obama on this. But show me a person who is praising Obama on this who harped on the aforementioned previous government. You can't, because despite you trying to make it a Democrat/Republican agenda issue you know full well that the same people calling Snowden a hero and LITERALLY decrying what the current government is doing are the same that did likewise when Bush was in power -- and they also blamed the entire nation, my friend.

"ROFL Yeah, it stinks of real hypocrisy!"

You need to get both your definitions and examples straight.

SuperLib: "Well it certainly looks like Christmas has come early for the anti-Americans."

It's not anti-American to point out hypocrisy. It's only 'anti-American' to those who know what is wrong and are embarrassed by what is happening, like the current government doing what it's doing (INCLUDING Obama, bass!), lying about it, then having to admit it, then claiming it saved lives without any proof (like we should take their word on it after all the lies!), and now desperately begging other natinos to extradite the guy so they can put trumped up charges on him to save a bit of face.

For all those here calling Snowden a traitor, I’d like to ask you where your loyalties lie. Is it with the Bill of Rights, Constitution, and the Declaration of Independence; or is it with the past/current government/administrations? My guess is that anyone here calling Snowden a traitor “probably” works at one of the US bases in Japan. Follow the money.

Anyway, I’d recommend everyone here (pro/con Snowdon) to take an hour or so tonight and listen to this podcast(6-19-2013). This is Russ Tice describing his past and present experiences with the NSA. He was the first NSA whistleblower back in 2005. And boy is it a dooosy! Basically, the police state in the US is a reality, from the mouth of a respected but ostracized G. Bush NSA worker. He never revealed classified information, that’s why he’s still free, but he recently did receive letters from higher-ups not to talk to the press, and had a couple of interviews at major networks suddenly cancel as he was walking through the front door.

And please please remember, George Washington broke the law too.

http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2013/06/19/podcast-show-112-nsa-whistleblower-goes-on-record-reveals-new-information-names-culprits/

Putin rocks! “It’s the same as shearing a piglet: there’s a lot of squealing and not much wool,” he said.

brilliant!

(Chinese citizens want to not)... be afraid to use words like; Democracy, Freedom and Human Rights

But it's OK for the NSA to erode Democracy, Freedom and Human Rights, and not OK for Snowden to defend those ideals?

Or are Democracy, Freedom and Human Rights also highly subjective (and conditional) concepts?

If Snowden was a Russian, exposing to the world that Russia was illegaly spying on nations around the world as well as at home,

No, because it'd be legal in Russia - in Russia, the Rights Bill you! LOL

(Ya guys don't really think Russia is not already doing that, do ya? And y'know that Chinese telecom company the NSA hacked? The Chinese government likely already has their own monitoring device plugged in --and it's all legal!-- legally spying on all the Chinese people's communications. Chinese government says, "Hey! We're the only one allowed to spy on our people!" So y'see, people are being monitored regardless, and it's all legal, so people don't care.)

Fizzbit,

Excellent and very informative link.

I suggest that anyone who is interested in this topic take the time to listen to it.

There's so much panic to shut Snowden up that I wonder if he knows more than he's telling.

In fact, it makes you wonder whether the lies about Hussein's non existent WMDs, 9/11, the assassination of Bin Laden, etc., wasn't just a cover up so that the NSA could implement its constraints, spying on citizens and the like.

"Terrorists are everywhere. They're about to strike. It's a dangerous environment, you need us to protect you!"

"In fact, it makes you wonder whether the lies about Hussein's non existent WMDs, 9/11, the assassination of Bin Laden, etc., "

It makes me wonder why you're touting speculation already when all Snowdon has left is the hope of saving his own skin now his "revelations " that the US is listening to everybody is over with - despite this being common knowledge since circa WW2....

At least this particular "hero" isn't seeking asylum to avoid being tried for his various sex crimes....

@smith

I see...liberal humor, I keep forgetting how unfunny you guys can be. I didn't respond as in give a precise comment. Wise up.

On the contrary, when this first came out you literally said you supported Bush and Cheney's illegal wiretaps but did not support Obama on this. But show me a person who is praising Obama on this who harped on the aforementioned previous government.

I did and I DO support it, but NOT the way Obama has been allowing the IRS (allegedly and most likely) to survey and to harass conservatives the DOJ investigating James Rosen as if he were a fugitive? This is MY problem with this bullish admin.! Show you? I am am ticked off that Obama and the WH are looking like a bunch of Keystone cops at trying to get this creep! And yes, most of the Dems do support Obama on this.

You can't, because despite you trying to make it a Democrat/Republican agenda issue you know full well that the same people calling Snowden a hero and LITERALLY decrying what the current government is doing are the same that did likewise when Bush was in power -- and they also blamed the entire nation, my friend.

I'm not the one making it a bipartisan issue, I am calling it as for what it is. As I said before, when we were attacked on 9/11 the government came under serious scrutiny for perhaps dropping the ball or not reading into the signs, now that Obama is in office, the man you guys said, would change the world, you weren't kidding. He turned this whole surveillance program up and pumped it full of steroids. This is far worse than what Bush did, NOT even close. The Bush admin. wasn't trying to use the NSA or the IRS to harass Democrats and if he did it at the level Obama is doing, I would have a problem with it as well. The people that are calling Snowden a hero don't have a clue as to Geopolitics and the repercussions this guy has wrought on the US and possibly other nations, cozying up to countries that are NOT exactly our friends. I don't think this High School drop out dummy sees that and I think he bit off more than he can choose.

You need to get both your definitions and examples straight.

I always do.

It's only 'anti-American' to those who know what is wrong and are embarrassed by what is happening

I'm not embarrassed about that. I am just mad that this President rode on the wagon of Hope and change and that he was this great magnificent leader that will change everything and was so worried about the world liking us and now everyone will embrace us. That's what I am REALLY and TRULY embarrassed about!

Bass4funk,

when we were attacked on 9/11

Who attacked whom on 9/11, exactly?

Do you think Snowden knows something about this?

@bertie

Are you serious? Is this a trick question?

Ok, Let me ask you a question with a question, who do you think did?

I don't know what Snowden knows or has in his possession.

at this point in time, i'm inclined to say snowden needs to be protected from extradition

he should bunk with assange

Snowden and Putin are heroes! Defenders of liberty!

"Who attacked whom on 9/11, exactly?

Do you think Snowden knows something about this?"

So this is finally it Bertie?

Finally?

Are we just one more "mission accomplished" post from getting the leaks on the scale that that Assange suggested and failed to deliver?

Truth on the moon landings?

Proof that Bill Clinton flew one of the jets on 9/11?

The facts we need to know about alien colonisation ?

I'm so excited I threw up my vegetarian lasagne. He'll, should I even change the water in the bong...?

Since all you have in defence of this man are suppositions t'en I have my own;

Now that both the Chinese and The Russians have had a good skesh at the Intel he stole, they'll probably treat him with the same scorn as the police treat an informer and let him loose.

If he had any real juice we'd have had it by now. Just another Assange, it's all about him with no real shocks other than violating every code in the diplomatic book to be lapped up by all you America-obsessed.

Heh, at least Snowdon's actions guarantees Assange permanent residence in a two up and two down for the rest of his natural life. For that, he is indeed my hero. :)

It is all getting a bit like a movie script. The script may have more twists than any of us suspect. Have Americans ever wondered why Obama, who was going to be so unlike Bush, is now so like him? Perhaps your President is not really running your country. Perhaps, some group within the NSA or some other U.S spy organisation or the military industrial complex has become so powerful that they select and control the President. No one really knows what is going on in these huge, well-financed mysterious organisations.

bass4funk: "I see...liberal humor, I keep forgetting how unfunny you guys can be. I didn't respond as in give a precise comment. Wise up."

Wrong. The person who 'is not even going to reply' simply doesn't reply -- they don't reply to say they're NOT going to reply.

"And yes, most of the Dems do support Obama on this."

Wrong again. The only Dems who support this supported similar things under Bush and Co., and share similar views of "hey, who cares if they're trampling on the constitution so long as we're 'safe'" as you.

"I'm not the one making it a bipartisan issue,"

You most certainly are.

"I'm not embarrassed about that. I am just mad that this President rode on the wagon of Hope and change and that he was this great magnificent leader that will change everything and was so worried about the world liking us and now everyone will embrace us. That's what I am REALLY and TRULY embarrassed about!"

Nah, you're not the one making it a bipartisan issue at all. :)

Did you look up hypocrisy in the dictionary yet?

@Superlib This isn't just a a matter of the 'anti-Americans'. Many UK citizens are also appalled at their own country's complicity in this sordid business.

I wonder if the US would actually resort to forcing a Russian plane to divert to an airport on American soil to arrest him...

Probably not, because, as you state, it would cause a helluva diplomatic row.

But I wouldn't put it past them to send a drone after him.

Forcing a Russian civil jet to land on American soil or "sending a drone after him" are not realistic scenarios. They could take place only in some patriotic Hollywood movie.Putin said that mr Snowden is a "free man". So,in pure theory, he can leave a transit zone via service back door or window in a toilet cabin.

By the way, dear American hawkish patriots, why are you SO upset by this case? Many criminals, from a viewpoint of Soviet / Russian leaders used to find a safe harbour in the USA. Did the US Government return any of them? No. So please, calm down and watch another idiotic adventures of Spiderman/ Iron Man / Superman. Something about "saving a World".

Oops! Make that 'UK subjects' not 'UK citizens'.

Snowden certainly betrayed US government, and according to this fact he must be punished.

On the other hand, US government - like many around the world - is corrupted and has violated many human rights. Thus, I think Snowden should be protected. Corrupt governments should not be obeyed. Hope you have a change (for good) in the US!

If his claims to turn out to be true, and if the US is violating US law and international law, then I wouldn't mind seeing him pardoned.

Even if he what he says is proven true and everything admitted by Obama... there is no way he is pardoned in the current US system. There is not coming back. Never happened. Once on the US black list, you're never rehabilitated.

If his claims to turn out to be true,

Then again, he is nobody... it's the claims of US authorities that the reasonable US citizens and the world would to turn out to be true. The official version about spying was questioned before Snowden appeared in the debate. Now, his whereabouts are used as a diversion. But please back to it. The official claims were proven ? Because if what the US government turns out to be as true as the official PR of North Korea, it's sad. No ? And if any guy that stands up to say "I personally testify that the US government lies..." is eliminated the same way as the North-Koreans saying the Kim legends are BS, it's sad. No ? It's not sad ? That's OK for you ?

But that examination hasn't happened yet.

Yes, and you know the pace of justice about matters said of national security. His turn is after the Guantanamo inmates, they will call his number, to get heard by a judge, around the year 2070...

If Snowden was Chinese and he revealed China's secrets and fled to America, he would be a hero and a very wealthy hero indeed? He can talk in universities, deliver speeches in the UN and talk about freedom. He can become an American citizen and sure as hell the US will not send him back to China. So please stop all these hypocrisy and blame HK and Russia. I hope some nation has the gall to stand up to US bullying and provide Snowden shelter. Ban Ki Moon should invite him to the UN and talk about hacking and spying on all individuals. Maybe I too have been monitored and now my e mails are all scrutinized!

Yakuza only cut off a finger or two when you try to leave. ==> With the NSA and its derivatives (Booz Allen Hamilton) they really look under every rock (or airport) to find and expunge you. The higher up the criminal chain you get the more ruthless it is -it seems.

I'd hardly say having to run around the globe having to look over your shoulder for someone out to get you is being a "free" man. For now his only prison is fear of being extradited (whether by a country or by some wonderful secret operation by the US.)

A person who is free doesn't have to fear anything, doesn't have to worry about anything.

I'm with Russia on this. Once again as I mentioned in earlier posts, every government in the world is not obligated to help any other government in the world. It is only by showing consideration and diplomacy that a government of one country helps another. Some countries might be willing to hand Snowden to the US and others might not.

@smith

Wrong. The person who 'is not even going to reply' simply doesn't reply -- they don't reply to say they're NOT going to reply.

Sorry, I replied, not the way, you wanted, but I replied.

"And yes, most of the Dems do support Obama on this."

Why am I NOT surprised. You lay with dogs....

Wrong again. The only Dems who support this supported similar things under Bush and Co., and share similar views of "hey, who cares if they're trampling on the constitution so long as we're 'safe'" as you.

As we can see, liberals these last few months are so transparent, we can really see how they run government, which is a total joke.

You most certainly are.

Hardly

Nah, you're not the one making it a bipartisan issue at all. :)

As I said and you keep overlooking the obvious. I don't care what Obama does, just as long as he keeps the country safe, allowing (or looking the other way) the IRS to systematically go after ONLY conservatives for the sake of political purposes and being a complete partisan is against the law, spying on reporters.

Did you look up hypocrisy in the dictionary yet?

While I'm at it, please look up "liberal failure."

As I said and you keep overlooking the obvious. I don't care what Obama does, just as long as he keeps the country safe, allowing (or looking the other way) the IRS to systematically go after ONLY conservatives for the sake of political purposes and being a complete partisan is against the law, spying on reporters.

You are making it a bipartisan issue. Last I checked the IRS consists of moderate and republican employees too. Funny you seem to think there are only dem employees in the IRS who would advocate for a democratic president (which they're not beholding to...) tells the IRS what to do and who to investigate. Its been around a lot longer than 8 years and is not under the direct control of the presiding presidential administration. It just so happens that a lot of tea-party/republican/ whatever other political groups attempted to apply for non-profit status and the IRS has to check them too.

I don't care what Obama does, just as long as he keeps the country safe, allowing (or looking the other way) the IRS to systematically go after ONLY conservatives

Too bad you're not keeping up with the news. That statement "only conservatives" has proven to be a total Republican fabrication.

@yabits

Too bad you're not keeping up with the news. That statement "only conservatives" has proven to be a total Republican fabrication.

Don't even try. Of course, I'm up to date. I was basically talking in generalities as in the majority. In that sense Yes, overwhelmingly, it was conservatives that were targeted.

Jimizo,

Many UK citizens are also appalled at their own country's complicity in this sordid business.

Citizens or subjects, that's me.

I was disgusted at Blair's "puppy dog" behaviour and always wondered why.

He seems intelligent, but he threw logic out of the window and helped spread the Bush/Cheney lies.

Maybe someone had been listening in on some of his phone calls or hacked into his computer and had seen what "left-handed websites" he had been visiting.

They say that this kind of surveillance has been going on for quite some time.

Don't even try. Of course, I'm up to date. I was basically talking in generalities as in the majority. In that sense Yes, overwhelmingly, it was conservatives that were targeted.

Yes, one has to point out obvious fallacies. Note the word in the original post was ONLY, in all caps -- for emphasis. Of course, when called out, one slithers and slinks into saying it was just "generalities."

The other fallacy, of course, concerns Obama's (ie, the White House's) role. The transcripts of the congressional investigation have been released, and they detail the fact that a local officer took complete responsibility for the program. That officer identified himself as a "conservative Republican."

Since the groups applying for the special status were overwhelmingly conservative, it would seem only logical that a majority would be held for additional scrutiny.

@honest

You are making it a bipartisan issue. Last I checked the IRS consists of moderate and republican employees too. Funny you seem to think there are only dem employees in the IRS who would advocate for a democratic president (which they're not beholding to...) tells the IRS what to do and who to investigate. Its been around a lot longer than 8 years and is not under the direct control of the presiding presidential administration. It just so happens that a lot of tea-party/republican/ whatever other political groups attempted to apply for non-profit status and the IRS has to check them too.

Sorry, not true, investigation after investigation has proven that overwhelmingly conservatives have been targeted.

http://mobile.spectator.org/theamericanspectator/#!/entry/the-liberal-union-behind-the-irs,5195a4b0da27f5d9d0c6cb0e/3

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/05/14/irs-gave-progressives-a-pass-tea-party-groups-put-on-hold/2159983/

There was clearly a bias! if you don't believe it, fine, but there was. All the conservatives that were targeted were subjected to audits, my father was audited 3 times under this President and he followed EVERY SINGLE RULE and was still targeted.

@bertie

I was disgusted at Blair's "puppy dog" behaviour and always wondered why.

Of course, Blair wasn't a "puppy dog" he had the will to say NO, but he understood the reality of the threats of terrorism.

He seems intelligent, but he threw logic out of the window and helped spread the Bush/Cheney lies.

He is, that's why he is a great man. Almost had the chance to meet him 10 years ago, but had to do another assignment and couldn't get the chance to leave the studio.

Maybe someone had been listening in on some of his phone calls or hacked into his computer and had seen what "left-handed websites" he had been visiting.

They might be listening to you right now as well, ever thought about that.

They say that this kind of surveillance has been going on for quite some time.

Actually, for a very, very, very long time and NOT just the US, that's a fact. Internationally on a larger scale, this is just a small tip of the scale.

@yabits

Since the groups applying for the special status were overwhelmingly conservative, it would seem only logical that a majority would be held for additional scrutiny.

That is absolutely NOT true, as I outlined earlier. They were targeted purely for their political affiliation and the timing could not have been at a better for liberals. It was planned and coordinated during the election to do whatever possible to defund groups like the "Tea party", that just one example. Don't give me that crap!

Bass and Smith better watch TV because both Democrats and Republicans have been defending the NSA and their right to spy on non Americans. Spying is a hostile act and America has been spying and hacking the computers in Japan. This is how the USA returns Japans friendship and trust. I think the free countries of the world need to make the USA accountable for it ill deeds. American can not have it both ways they have been proven to be lying hypocrites.

@yuri

Uhhh, Japan has been spying on Japanese and their computers, remember the downloading issue with the ISP addresses and China is spying on Japan and vice versa, so where is your outrage?

"YuriOtani

Spying is a hostile act and America has been spying and hacking the computers in Japan. This is how the USA returns Japans friendship and trust.

To believe that Japan doesn't conduct espionage on its allies, including the US, is unbelievably naive. ALL governments spy on others, at different levels and to differing extents, but ALL do it.

Bass4funk,

"He seems intelligent, but he threw logic out of the window and helped spread the Bush/Cheney lies."

that's why he is a great man.

I see.

Blair is a great man because he threw logic out of the window and helped spread the Bush/Cheney lies.

For "great man" read "idiot" and I'd agree with you.

Putin... defender of liberty? I wouldn't quite go THAT far. One action hardly makes up for a lifetime of oppression and deceit.

Smithinjapan: It's not anti-American to point out hypocrisy.

It's anti-American to use your own hypocrisy to point out America.

Readers, please keep the discussion civil.

John Occupythemoon Putin... defender of liberty?

Barack Hussein Obama - Nobel Peace Prize laureate?

A lot of questions arising in modern policy....

USNinJapan: To believe that Japan doesn't conduct espionage on its allies, including the US, is unbelievably naive. ALL governments spy on others, at different levels and to differing extents, but ALL do it.

But if you don't allow other countries into the conversation then you can say that only the US is doing it.

Bass4Funk: Sorry, not true, investigation after investigation has proven that overwhelmingly conservatives have been targeted.

You'd have to compare the total number of applications, conservative vs. progressive, then compare the numbers pulled. Unless you have that information you don't have any evidence. Besides, the guy from the IRS who designed the search process has said he is a Republican. End of story.

Asian123: If Snowden was Chinese and he revealed China's secrets and fled to America, he would be a hero and a very wealthy hero indeed? He can talk in universities, deliver speeches in the UN and talk about freedom.

Well you're using an example of a Chinese man coming to America. I'm sure most people would consider that an upgrade in their crusade for personal freedom. Snowden is going to live with a quasi-dictator. Not the same. You'd have to say a Chinese man exposed China then went to a place with worse human rights record than China.

SenseNoSoCommon: But it's OK for the NSA to erode Democracy, Freedom and Human Rights, and not OK for Snowden to defend those ideals?

Defend them while sitting in Russia and China? I don't think he's the man you think he is. His commitment to those ideals will be put on hold while he works with those countries. That's to say he can turn them on or off like a switch. American officials don't put those ideals on hold when they are in China. Neither do you.

He's motivated by fame. He went to China and announced who he was from a hotel room. Obviously because he was so afraid of the US knowing who he was and where he was, right? And he told the press he was worried about the CIA sending the triads to kill him. Which is strange because he decided to go to a place with Chinese triads. He opened himself up to a much higher level of danger and now he wants the world to know how much danger he's in.

But he's a smart guy. He knew China wouldn't want him to stay and he knew they wouldn't want to send them to the US. The fact is that he could have just as easily gone to Ecuador and released everything while he was there. But he didn't. He's suddenly a man on the run in this "global espionage case" and it's all by his choices. Even if you agree with his message at the very least you should allow yourself to question him and ask if he's the right one.

And finally, whatever the charges are, it's not a case of the US doing it and other countries not doing it. Other countries don't do it because they can't.....yet. China and Russia aren't outraged because they've shown some kind of restraint and now it's not being reciprocated. As countries improve technology they will all do it. It's the same game they've been playing for hundreds of years. Governments give speeches about ideals for people to live up to. But behind the scenes they do some pretty nasty shit. If you want to end all of that around the world then I'm happy to help. If you want to pick and choose your countries then you aren't serious about it. With that being the case I'm fine with that because no one can match our technology, so cry a river. Your government will hand you a tissue in one hand while they collect information the US gives them in the other.

@bertie

Blair is a great man because he threw logic out of the window and helped spread the Bush/Cheney lies.

And Obama has been a beacon of honesty?

For "great man" read "idiot" and I'd agree with you.

Everyday, I look at the current occupier of the WH and Snowden, I feel, that name fits perfectly.

SuperLib, you just don’t get it, do you? Snowden chose Hong Kong because he saw the US’ double standards and hypocrisy. He waited until after the meeting between Obama and Xi to show the world what the US has become. Do you still believe that the US tried to promote democracy, freedom and human rights after you know that what it has been doing is the opposite? You tried to paint him to be a fame-seeking guy with ill logic that he would be in a much higher level of danger in China, but the fact that he was able to survive and leave Hong Kong freely shows that your logic is unfounded. His fear of the CIA is more logical otherwise he would not mention about his family’s safety in public so that they could be protected. You are right though that he is a smart guy by not revealing everything all at once and not putting himself to be seen as a traitor. Whatever secrets he possesses must be quite damaging to the US that the US had to delay issuing the extradition request for weeks fearing that he would counter with more disclosure. We all know that it turns out to be the case as he disclosed more information about the US spying on China and let everybody know that the US had lied and denied about it and even blamed China. Taking him out is not an option so the most logical option is to be seen as using legal means to get him back. Using US laws as a cover to gain sympathy from general public by showing Snowden has broken the laws and should be punished. You can also see the different tone and approach that the US used toward China and Russia. Harsher tone toward China but less so toward Russia, the fear of Russia is more noticeable. Your claim that other country doesn’t have the technology so it is alright for the US to do it is so absurd. You seem to forget what the US stands for. Well, it used to stand for freedom, democracy and human rights, now that image and reputation have been forever tarnished. Who would trust the US now as seen from the questions being raised during Obama’s trips abroad? I should also ask you who is the US most fear in terms of cyber-espionage, not China? China may have better cyber-espionage technology than the US. Now, next time the US government tries to do something to other country we should all have serious doubts about their intention. Snowden helps the world see behind the façade and we should be thankful to him.

Flowers: SuperLib, you just don’t get it, do you? Snowden chose Hong Kong because he saw the US’ double standards and hypocrisy.

Not that there's any hypocrisy in going to countries that have no government transparency or oversight. Obviously he doesn't mind checking his ideals at the door.

Do you still believe that the US tried to promote democracy, freedom and human rights after you know that what it has been doing is the opposite?

Yep. This incident doesn't erase anything the US currently does or has done in the past. You seem like someone who is predisposed to repeating the same negatives over and over. Wait for the evidence to come to light, if that's not too much to ask.

You tried to paint him to be a fame-seeking guy with ill logic that he would be in a much higher level of danger in China

He announced to the world who he was, where he was at, and what he was doing. Tell me how that makes sense for a man wanting to avoid danger. He also did it without much of an exit strategy which has created this manhunt. It was all driven by his choices.

His fear of the CIA is more logical otherwise he would not mention about his family’s safety in public so that they could be protected.

The US has interviewed his family. Please tell me what statements they have released about the way they are being treated. What's becoming typical is to let your imagination run wild and you want to tell me that's a valid position.

You are right though that he is a smart guy by not revealing everything all at once and not putting himself to be seen as a traitor.

Nope. He wants to spread out the information over time to extend the process out as long as possible.

We all know that it turns out to be the case as he disclosed more information about the US spying on China and let everybody know that the US had lied and denied about it and even blamed China.

Did the US release a statement saying they do not spy on other countries, especially China? I don't get how you view the world.

Using US laws as a cover to gain sympathy from general public by showing Snowden has broken the laws and should be punished

Are you expecting the US to just let him go and make it policy to release anyone who puts classified information onto a USB drive and sends it to the media? He'll have his day in court and I've even said that if what he says is true I would support a pardon. He's already embellished his stories, especially by telling the world the US has direct access to servers like Google, AOL, and Microsoft. That was a lie.

Your claim that other country doesn’t have the technology so it is alright for the US to do it is so absurd.

Nope. I'm not naive to think the US is going to agree to be the only country who doesn't spy simply because they do it better than everyone else. It will never end, not from any country, period.

Well, it used to stand for freedom, democracy and human rights, now that image and reputation have been forever tarnished.

Yawn. I'm guessing you've said that every week for the last 10 years or so.

Who would trust the US now as seen from the questions being raised during Obama’s trips abroad?

Unless other countries sign an agreement to never spy they have no right to criticize the US simply because we do it better than they do. The reason why China gets criticized is because they get caught doing it.

Snowden helps the world see behind the façade and we should be thankful to him.

I'll ask you the same question that I've asked others. Maybe you'll be the first to answer. Can you specifically tell me what the US has done and what laws were broken?

SuperLib,

“Not that there's any hypocrisy in going to countries that have no government transparency or oversight. Obviously he doesn't mind checking his ideals at the door.”

If the US has government transparency or oversight, there wouldn’t be a case like this.

“Yep. This incident doesn't erase anything the US currently does or has done in the past. You seem like someone who is predisposed to repeating the same negatives over and over. Wait for the evidence to come to light, if that's not too much to ask.”

Why do you think the US government is so mad at Snowden and tries everything to get him back if that is not evidence enough. He is too smart to give out more evidence to be seen as a traitor.

“He announced to the world who he was, where he was at, and what he was doing. Tell me how that makes sense for a man wanting to avoid danger. He also did it without much of an exit strategy which has created this manhunt. It was all driven by his choices.”

You assumed too much especially on “it was all driven by his choices”. In fact, he planned everything so well that even the most powerful government in the world cannot even lay a hand on him. He is smarter than a lot of people in the US government.

“The US has interviewed his family. Please tell me what statements they have released about the way they are being treated. What's becoming typical is to let your imagination run wild and you want to tell me that's a valid position.”

To protect his family he did not even tell them anything, and he announced to the world about his family and that not to protect his family I don’t see any other reason. Tell me do you expect his family to say anything bad or say they are being mistreated when their lives are on the line?

“Nope. He wants to spread out the information over time to extend the process out as long as possible.”

What is the point in doing that, to be famous longer? This is one man against the US government. Look at how, where, when, and to whom he released the information, everything is well planned.

“Did the US release a statement saying they do not spy on other countries, especially China? I don't get how you view the world.”

Why do think China, Germany, India and others are so mad at the US right now? Why do think they call the US the hypocrite?

“That was a lie.” Think carefully of what you said, or worse yet believe their version of the lies. Even Businessweek has an article about mega data and data minin;, that is what the US is doing besides spying on the people.

“Nope. I'm not naive to think the US is going to agree to be the only country who doesn't spy simply because they do it better than everyone else. It will never end, not from any country, period.”

Yes, the US will not “agree to be the only country who doesn’t spy” because the US is the one who is doing most of the cyber-espionage. We can also say that the US is the father of the cyber-espionage and who has the straight face to say they want cyber-security.

“Unless other countries sign an agreement to never spy they have no right to criticize the US simply because we do it better than they do. The reason why China gets criticized is because they get caught doing it.”

Do you really think that the US is doing better than China? Use the logic here if both sides spying on each other certainly the stronger one with the most advantage would keep quiet about it. The US has been squealing about cyber-espionage and blamed China endlessly and according to you they are both spying on each other, so what is the point to that? For one thing, China didn’t get caught there is no direct evidence whatsoever, the US only used the blame game. You don’t think China knows about the US spying, China just wants to keep it quiet because it is doing it a lot better.

“I'll ask you the same question that I've asked others. Maybe you'll be the first to answer. Can you specifically tell me what the US has done and what laws were broken?”

Common, you really don’t get it, do you? What the US Constitution is for? Isn’t it the highest law of the Land? So, what is freedom to the US? And, don’t say that the US did all the spying according to the law. Rubber stamping is what it is. Who do you think is above the law? Of course, the US government and they even try to impose the US laws onto others that is why Russia is laughing right now. At first, the US government said they did not spy on individuals or companies, now we all know that is a lie. Oh, they did it for the sake of national security, and for those foreigners they don’t deserve that kind of freedom. What human rights are for? Now, you know what laws the US has broken.

@flowers

you just don’t get it, do you? Snowden chose Hong Kong because he saw the US’ double standards and hypocrisy.

But wait! How does Snowden know what would happen to him, he didn't even stand trail, he didn't go through the legal process. So there is NO way to determine if he would have gotten a fair trail or not. The idiot is purely speculating. He could have lawyered up, but he chose this route.

He waited until after the meeting between Obama and Xi to show the world what the US has become.

That's for HIM to make that judgement for 350 million people?? Who the.....is he to think that he has the right to just TAKE government information and tell it to the world as he so sees fit. He never for once realized that he put a lot of peoples lives at risk, NOT to mention the entire nation!!

Do you still believe that the US tried to promote democracy, freedom and human rights after you know that what it has been doing is the opposite?

I see, so he just goes off to willingly give this information to countries that VALUE FREEDOM, DEMOCRACY, and HUMAN RIGHTS. China, Russia, Cuba and ECUADOR? But of course, it all makes perfect sense, silly me.

You tried to paint him to be a fame-seeking guy with ill logic that he would be in a much higher level of danger in China, but the fact that he was able to survive and leave Hong Kong freely shows that your logic is unfounded.

Why wouldn't he survive, HE IS A LIVING GOLDMINE OF INTEL!!! Once the Chinese got what they wanted, of course, he was free to leave and if you think he didn't give the Chinese ANYTHING, you are a fool!

His fear of the CIA is more logical otherwise he would not mention about his family’s safety in public so that they could be protected.

Sorry, I don't feel one iota of sorrow for that loon. If he really cared about his family, he would have never subjected them to this scandal, but as a result, of course now his whole family are being watched, not to mention the scrutiny, they have to endure. Their lives are changed forever as well.

Whatever secrets he possesses must be quite damaging to the US that the US had to delay issuing the extradition request for weeks fearing that he would counter with more disclosure.

I get so tired of you guys thinking that the US has something to hide. the NSA is a SPY AGENCY, which means they have SECRETS, there is a reason we have a spy agency. Every country has a spy agency. That's what they do, spy, get secrets, keep secrets, most countries, diplomatic at least use this intel mostly to protect the country. The man had NO business taking it upon himself to violate his contract and to share this information with the world, again, putting many innocent people at risk.

We all know that it turns out to be the case as he disclosed more information about the US spying on China and let everybody know that the US had lied and denied about it and even blamed China.

So what about the US and Russia spying on the US, where is your outrage? Spies lie, that's the reason why they do what they do. Being a spy doesn't mean, every week they are beholden to the public and are obliged to tell give weekly updates to the public, if you think so, then you just don't know the whole purpose of what spying means.

Taking him out is not an option so the most logical option is to be seen as using legal means to get him back.

Of course they want him alive, they need to keep him alive and healthy, so that when they take him back, they can interrogate him thoroughly, prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law and lock him in a 23 hour solitary lockdown.

Using US laws as a cover to gain sympathy from general public by showing Snowden has broken the laws and should be punished.

Anyone with common sense and a clear vision knows he did break the law and he should be punished to the fullest extent of the law!

You can also see the different tone and approach that the US used toward China and Russia. Harsher tone toward China but less so toward Russia, the fear of Russia is more noticeable.

If you are implying that the US is afraid of Russia, you are sadly mistaken. They are more concerned with what this loon has in his possession of stolen intel.

Your claim that other country doesn’t have the technology so it is alright for the US to do it is so absurd.

It IS alright because we have every right to protect ourselves from terrorists. Simple.

You seem to forget what the US stands for.

As an American, I most certainly do! But most foreigners don't and it doesn't matter to me if they do or not.

Well, it used to stand for freedom, democracy and human rights, now that image and reputation have been forever tarnished.

Freedom, doesn't mean that an employee can TAKE whatever vital information they want and use it however they like. Democracy, why the HELL would Snowden go to countries that have THE WORST record when it comes to Democracy and FREE speech. Human Rights, Snowden speculated that he would not receive a fair trail, but he never allowed the system to play out because he chose to flee. If he were so innocent, there is NO way he would have fled. NO way I am buying that, only closed-minded fools would. The reputation is tarnished by rouge criminals like Snowden that try to think what is best for the country. Snowden wants attention and this is the best way of her getting it.

Who would trust the US now as seen from the questions being raised during Obama’s trips abroad?

I will give you this, Obama has told the world that he would be a different president and that he would be transparent promising he would be better and more forthcoming and YES, he is doing exactly that! He is different, not even close to being transparent. Trusting the US and trusting Obama are two entirely different entities.

I should also ask you who is the US most fear in terms of cyber-espionage, not China? China may have better cyber-espionage technology than the US.

How do you know? You don't know that. NONE of us know that, except maybe Snowden, don't make accusations like that if you don't have any backup to prove otherwise and I am sure he doesn't know that much. The guy didn't even finish High School, so go figure.

Now, next time the US government tries to do something to other country we should all have serious doubts about their intention.

I see, so you'd rather put your trust in China, Russia? Valenzuela? Cuba? Don't make this an isolated case as if the US is the only country that spies, please don't be that naive!!

Snowden helps the world see behind the façade and we should be thankful to him.

No, Snowden is helping his country to be destroyed in many ways, has put many of its allies in Jeopardy. For that, he should be vilified and shunned and excoriated! And other things I just cannot say on JT.

Flowers, I can't really understand your point or purpose other than to lash out. You contradict yourself in nearly every line of your response while making some kind of case for hypocrisy. You call the US the "father" of spying, then go into a rant about how China is more adept while not focusing any of your anger on them, which is odd since apparently you are against spying. You want to talk about freedom and transparency but you won't touch the records of China or Russia with a 10 foot pole. You have not been able to give any specific details about the US has done and I'm guessing it's because you really don't know, instead you throw out generalities that make you feel good.

I said before that the US has an important conversation we need to engage in. I've even said that if Snowden is proven correct then he should be pardoned despite his refusal to go through the proper reporting channels for whistleblowers. I've said that more oversight is needed to make sure no power is being abused despite the fact that there already is oversight.

I have no idea what you're adding to the conversation.

SuperLib, nothing of what I said is contradictory. Try not to have a one track mind and assume everything. There are other possibilities in every case. I said the US is the father of cyber-espionage so there is another possibility that China is the mother, therefore, China may have a better cyber technology. The rest of your comments are your own assumptions. Don’t forget that I only mentioned about “freedom” and you yourself put forth the “transparency”, and we both talked about the US in this case. Why in the world I would “touch the records of China or Russia” with regards to freedom and transparency, this is really puzzling. And, what “details” are you talking about, we are not writing a book here. You said, “if Snowden is proven correct then he should be pardoned,” what level of correctness you are referring to? Which version of right or wrong? If he has tons of damaging secrets in in his possession but he simply can’t reveal them to the public without being branded as a traitor, how can you come up the answer?

All these days in Russia, US must be totally frustrated. Imagine the amount of secrets the Russians can get from Snowden. The US spent billions on dollars to gather all these information and now the Russians get it for free! We watch James Bond movies and the KGB lost. Well this time the KGB gets free information and gets to frustrate the US. This is better then the movies! Looking forward to Snowden revealing more of what the US is doing. Maybe he will reveal that the US knew all along that Iraq and Saddam did not even possess a pebble of uranium. Or maybe they knew exactly where the Chinese embassy was and intentionally bombed it. I just cannot imagine that they do not know the facts when they possess so much information.

I really want to know if the USA has hacked the SDF computers?

if i'd to wager, then i would say...yes.

Bass4funk, There is no fair trial in this case. It will be mainly based on public opinion and that opinion will change according to the picture that the US government paints of him. Wait until he gets caught and all the dirty laundry about him will surface just like other whistle blowers. So, he basically didn’t choose his route, he just had no other choice.

The public has the right to know. How did “he put a lot of people’s lives at risk?” Do you really think that by revealing this the terrorists would have been more cautious in using the technology? If you think so, you are being too naïve. Claiming that spying on the people is for national security. Heck, China has openly showed that their people are being monitored over the phone and Internet, and their freedom is limited, no harm done, all for the sake of national security. Think of it this way, you thought that you had freedom in your everyday life and one day you found out that in fact your freedom was limited just like the Chinese. How do you feel? You have been fooled and living in the dark for all these years, so now it’s your choice to forsake your liberty or go for the security just like in China. Maybe a balance of the two which still means limited freedom.

You should try to be open and go places more, maybe go to China and see for yourself that the life there is really what you imagine it to be. There are many levels of freedom, democracy and human rights, as long as people there are happy with their lives that’s what counts. You should also discount the level of freedom, democracy and human rights that you think you have by a wide margin now that you know what the US government has been doing in the dark.

“Why wouldn't he survive, HE IS A LIVING GOLDMINE OF INTEL!!! Once the Chinese got what they wanted, of course, he was free to leave and if you think he didn't give the Chinese ANYTHING, you are a fool!” Oh, don’t forget about the Russian, they also have everything now. The US should be panic, right? Wrong. If the Chinese and Russian got hold of the info, that only confirmed what they already knew. What the US is worried is it goes public and everybody on earth will know a lot more what the US has been doing to them in secret.

Your comment here already confirmed that he would not get a fair trial. He had shown his love towards his family but you already passed judgement on him. He did it for the country in long run so you should show more compassion. Yes, spies lie, but the US government lies too. Now, you probably think China government also lies so they all lie. What it boils down to is there is no difference then between the US and China, and I thought the US had a higher standard because of the government transparency and oversight.

“Of course they want him alive, they need to keep him alive and healthy, so that when they take him back, they can interrogate him thoroughly, prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law and lock him in a 23 hour solitary lockdown.” No wonder he doesn’t want to expose the secrets in the US or go back to the US.

“Anyone with common sense and a clear vision knows he did break the law and he should be punished to the fullest extent of the law!” Now let me ask you what law? This case is beyond the law that is why a lot of people want a pardon for him. He sacrificed his life for the sake of the country and you want to crucify him. I have seen a lot of comments here asking if Snowden were Chinese and came to the US for help, would he be praised and even be given a medal for what he has done? More likely he would be praised and given him a hero status.

“If you are implying that the US is afraid of Russia, you are sadly mistaken. They are more concerned with what this loon has in his possession of stolen intel.” I am not implying at all. The US is really afraid of Russia. And, if the US government by this time still doesn’t know what he has in his possession, there is something seriously wrong there. It is something that the US government doesn’t want you to know.

“It IS alright because we have every right to protect ourselves from terrorists. Simple.” Yes, sacrifice freedom for the sake of security, there is nothing wrong with that. Next, you should protect from yourselves because the US government has brought the terrorists home and some people even believe that the Americans are the worst terrorists of all time. How many people have died in the hands of the US and for what?

“As an American, I most certainly do! But most foreigners don't and it doesn't matter to me if they do or not.” That is the main point it doesn’t matter to you. You got the same mentality as the US government. Yes, you don’t care about other people but yourselves. That is the main problem.

If you know something about the US government that is so serious and troublesome that you have no more trust in the systems, you would have done exactly the same thing. Only you that still think about those countries that way, where else would he go, England or maybe Paris? Deep in your mind you know that there are no other safer places him that is out of reach of the US government. He made the right and logical choice.

In the spy game, those who have the upper hand tend to be quiet about it and the US has been yelling thief that turns out it is the biggest thief of all time. Think about this, he didn’t even finish high school and yet he got a high paying job with access to the classified info, so who is dumber?

“I see, so you'd rather put your trust in China, Russia? Valenzuela? Cuba? I don’t see anything wrong with those countries and I think those are the best logical choices for him. They may all do the spying but the problem with the US is its double standards and hypocrisy, calling others to stop but the US has been the worst of all.

Do you know something I don’t? How did he destroy his country and put the allies in jeopardy? Maybe I am missing something. Only the US that puts up the wall and treats those countries as enemies, especially China. No matter how you put it, I don’t see how China fit in as an enemy of the US. Is it because of the political system or ideology? I see the US and China being the same, yes China might have killed some of its own people for the sake of the majority but the US killed a lot of other people for the sake of ideology. So, don’t crucify Snowden.

The US spent billions on dollars to gather all these information and now the Russians get it for free! We watch James Bond movies and the KGB lost. Well this time the KGB gets free information and gets to frustrate the US. This is better then the movies!

I wished to watch a sequel of Enemy of the State. But real story of mr Snowden turned to be much better than any thriller !

What does the NSA do any differently compared to Facebook and other social sites? They track you, watch you, and know all your personal information. Only one does it for safety and the other does it for advertisers.

What does the NSA do any differently compared to Facebook and other social sites? They track you, watch you, and know all your personal information. Only one does it for safety and the other does it for advertisers.

The difference is that usually we add only certain unsignificant volume of our personal info to FB or any other social network and some private info we would never add. And the problem that spy programs developed by NSA or GCHQ together with spy technical devices, installed on hubs and fiber-optic cables alow a third side to steal any private information from your electronic devices. They get everything they wish without our will and approval. This is a slightly more complicated issue than "location of a FB member on a map of Google Earth."

Putin says Snowden at Moscow airport; rejects extradition request from U.S.

Putin, like the Chinese, is sticking up it's middle finger to Obama. It shows how little respect America has under this president. No one respects much less fears Obama.

Snowden could have been a whistle-blower without running for cover in countries that operate under a police state. It shows Snowden's motivations are not pure and based on patriotism for his own country. It is a self-serving action on his part for his own personal motivations.

What does the NSA do any differently compared to Facebook and other social sites? They track you, watch you, and know all your personal information. Only one does it for safety and the other does it for advertisers.

A private company does not have the power to jail you or to sick the IRS or FBI on you. We know the executive branch is not even handed based on all we know about the IRS targeting of conservative political groups. The executive overseas the NSA and all of these other agencies. In the past, Nixon attempted to use the IRS against his political enemies. Obviously, Liberals used the power of government to go after it's political enemies. Yes, "enemies" as Obama termed conservatives. It's not a whacked-out conspiracy theory when it is a known fact that the executive branch has misused it powers in the past.

Snowden is a traitor because he ran to America's enemies instead of standing up in his own country and accepting the consequences of his actions. He would have had universal support if he had stood up in America rather than in communist China.

He would have had universal support if he had stood up in America rather than in communist China.

He has already got an "universal support" from people of various countries. Communist China has nothing to do with it.

@ Elbuda Mexicano you are wearing a mexican flag and have the nerve to talk about a spineless president hold your breath and look at you own country before you make comments about the USA Ok, we can go on and on about who is to BLAME for this mess, but at the end of the day, we have an American citizen who is none too happy with his government and now is in RUSSIA!! Can the USA do anything?? NO!! Maybe Cheney etc..is rolling over in his grave?? I hope so! He is not yet under ground and dead?? Well I am sure a real warm place down in HELL is waiting for the likes of him! Eric kun, will most likely go down a real American hero!

Thanks to Snowden! the statue of liberty can smile again. If he will be charged as criminal as Democrat minority house leader Nanci Pelosi said, USA is no longer the land of free and proud and brave.

According the animated movie, The rise of the legends, more heroes needed to stand up for that authority who is lying and intruding their privacy. Obama and his admin needed to clean up their dirity business of spying on civilians and butchering drone strikes.

Two Points:

@Wolfpack

Snowden is a traitor because .........He would have had universal support if he had stood up in America rather than in communist China.

There have been two maybe three NSA whistleblowers that have done what you suggest. They followed the law, and now there lives are destroyed for nothing. Congress doesn't care to listen. You are very uninformed.

@Bass

No, Snowden is helping his country to be destroyed in many ways, has put many of its allies in Jeopardy. For that, he should be vilified and shunned and excoriated! And other things I just cannot say on JT.

Snowdon is helping his country be destroyed???? This statement is really laughable. With all the wars, debt, deficits, declining wages, unemployed, families losing their homes, jobs, breaking them up, radiation monitors being turned off, cronyism, secret trade deals, bailing out the banks and the fat cats, the list goes on, and now full knowledge that we are being spied on! And you choose Snowdon as the perp?! WOW! I think you're priorities are very clear, you don't really care about the US. You're just hear to defend the status quo

what should be worrying is that no one can escape the USA

It would be extremely doubtful if Mr Snowden would ever see a fair trial court in the US! We should all remember that he has evidence of the US government invading the privacy and trampling on the rights of its citizens-his trial would be in camera or a non sequitur ....