Russia wins concesssions in Georgia truce

Friday 15th August, 04:18 AM JST

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YuriOtani at 11:41 AM JST - 16th August

Once a thug, always a thug! The Russian/Soviet thug is still around. Agreements with them are not worth the paper they are printed on. This is a lesson for Japan to learn from. They have broken agreements in the past, present and future. Oh 20 anti missile launchers are nothing compared to the offensive might of the Neo Soviets. If they target Poland, America will have to respond and target them. What do they expect?
TonyUS at 01:46 PM JST - 16th August

You know the middle defense is a must , We look at N. Korea, yeah could be a threat at some point but I really do not see them as being one at this time because they could be completely annihilated in an instant and they know that, but as Russia complains about the US and its positioning of weapons, or missile defense systems, and this affecting the balance of power, what does the ex soviet regions have as a comfort zone from Russia and any aggression from it?. Someone mentioned at one point who China would side with in any of these events and I believe we all know the answer to that since China considers Taiwan as a break away province and if they would show any non-support of Russia with these breakaway ex-soviet states, would be the same as shooting oneself in the foot. But with that said, we have seen Russia supplying China with all kinds of advance military weaponry over the years and China itself building their own weapon systems as well, so if there is any imbalance here it is also very widely and directly coming from Russia and its new modernization of its military and especially added to all of this is their buddy buddy China, and we are suppose to sit back and let that go unchecked??? Russia rhetoric should be seen as just that.”RETORIC”... since their friend and neighbor to their north is going farther and faster beyond even Russia as a threat to the world.. US needs to go forward full force with all operations that will give ourselves and our allies a upper hand which has been the principle position we have always stood on from the beginning when approaching national security, so why change that now and become that of something less and at the same time putting our friends and allies at a disadvantage as well such as we are definitely witnessing with Georgia and the rest of the Baltic Republics that are looking into the gun barrel of Russia and at the same time China is quietly building to the max, Russia friend in solidifying power of the leaders, and leaders that are side by side with militaries on the expansion. No way should US stop in any way the progression of national defense. I am sure Russia would love to see us ignore the facts and so would China. Seems our weakness is already showing with Russia going about their business without having to consider any repercussions from the Western allies of Georgia. This tells the whole truth of the situation at hand and why Russia has gained the concessions it has with this truce, because no one can or will do anything about it that threatens Russia. These countries are going to have to build defense systems to counter any Russian aggression and that is going to have to happen soon in the future. At least that is my Opinion. :)
undecidedbout08 at 01:47 PM JST - 16th August

"Thousands cheered as the presidents of Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia stood with Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili at a rally in Tbilisi, Georgia, late Tuesday."

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/12/georgia.rally/?iref=hpmostpop
adaydream at 02:30 PM JST - 16th August

undecidedbout08 - I'm not doubting that they didn't have something to cheer about. They feel they have really accomplished something. And they have. I'm not belitting the agreement.

Then you have Russia. They are the dominate force in the reagion and those damn Americans are encroaching into our region.

I forecasted when the US started pushing to get some country/ies to take our weapons that this would be what was need to restart the cold war and I was scoffed off.

And that's exactly what has happened. Is tipping over the applecart worth a cold war. Our agreemant in Poland and the Czech Rep is a big part of all this aggression.

MOSCOW - A top Russian general said Friday that Poland's agreement to accept a U.S. missile interceptor base exposes the ex-communist nation to attack, possibly by nuclear weapons, the Interfax news agency reported.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080815/aponreeu/russiausmissiledefense

These are just facts. I understand what you'tre saying and I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying we have been a catylyst in this whole thing. < :-)
TonyUS at 02:55 PM JST - 16th August

Seems there are some that want to blame the US for everything here, when this is about Russia imposing its force on a sovereignty country, in a sovereign country. And Russia has been doing so ever since Georgia has been a sovereign country. And by the way, the US needs to do what ever it has to do keep its security at check and the security of others. Take the blame game over to who is the catalyst, Russia in its continual plotting to cause havoc in Georgia. That is the fact.

Undecided..Good article thanks.

Just from reading that it puts in mind about Chetnia and Russia cracking down of separatists there.. Should foreign forces have moved into Russia and support and fought for the separatists in Chetnia. This is exactly what this situation consists of. Russia moving into a sovereign country supporting separatists of another country.

This only supports a US build up of deterent against those that have interferred in other's affairs of sveriegn nations that are based on the people's wishes and wants. So that leaves Iraq out of the mix.
SuperLib at 05:54 PM JST - 16th August

daydream your posts are often difficult to respond to because they often don't make much sense. For example, "So when will we be supporting Georgia militarily and pushing out Russia since we have their back?"

My only conclusion is that you feel if the US is really supporting Georgia then we should be attacking Russia with them. Since we're not attacking Russia then it means we don't really "have Georgia's back." Is that correct? That would mean the goal of your statement is to mock the US's commitment to Georgia.

Your statements often confuse readers since you don't really have the ability to follow them through to conclusion. What you're really saying is that if the US supports Georgia then we should be fighting WWIII with Russia right now. In your mind the statement is, "supporting Georgia militarily and pushing out Russia" but that's not how the reader understands it since we're able to see beyond the limited scope that you've presented. One could rewrite your statement to say, "So when will we be starting WWIII since we have [Georgia's] back?" When you look at it that way you can see why people are confused as to what you're saying.

Herein lies the problem of responding to your comments. We don't know if you understand what you're saying or not. That means we have to ask for clarification, but we run the risk of getting an equally meaningless or vague response to follow up the first one. Or we can educate you about what you're doing wrong, but that takes time, as evidenced by this post.

I'll choose the clarification option. Let's see where it takes us:

Daydream, what do you mean when you say, "So when will we be supporting Georgia militarily and pushing out Russia since we have their back?"
SinnFainer at 05:10 AM JST - 17th August

People, you are blind, if see in the conflict of Georgia and Russia only the view point of the USA propaganda. Russia for all history on anybody did not attack, only defended, the facts to that on the person.. But the USA opposite since the beginning of the history, survived only that that win and take away all what they need from other nations. As for example at Indians, Americans take they lands… In a modern history of the USA have attacked Iraq, not for that what to relieve the country of the dictator but only for that what to catch oil. Now when America places the systems in the Europe, for Russia it can mean only one - the prevention of attack from America. And for those who is still blind, I advise to look at action of HOLY democracy in the USA , just reed coments from simple American people, not Mass media , and not politics …

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8XI2Chc6uQ

I like American people, but i hate they government now, as Bush and his company
TonyUS at 11:58 AM JST - 17th August

WHere are the people of Russia on this? Do they want to return to the cold war days?
TonyUS at 12:16 PM JST - 17th August

Sinn ... Russia is in a foreign country, what are you talking about? They are in a foreign country fighting the forces of that foreign country. What should have been done is kept Russia (Soviet Union) the locked out nation it was along with its communist friends. But as you want to put the US in focus rather than these invaders of Georgia seems you wish to direct focus off of reality and the facts of what Russia has done against another Democratic sovereign country where Russia invaded the borders. I just hope the western allies makes Russia pay for this! Already the rest of democracies are critical of Russia slowly slipping back to their past and this just goes along with that. Too bad Russia has lost all their prize possessions over the years .. meaning the Baltic states that they over ran to begin with to get.... Funny you try to ignore the very point you are criticizing,, All the lands US invaded and took out low life dictators seemed to have all went back to the people of those lands.. Take a look at history and the facts. As for the Indians, hmmm Americans took their lands??? Sounds to me you are talking about people from other lands comming to America and settling here and taking the lands from the native Indians. I believe that was before we were called Americans or the United states oaf America. The proccess was in place though and look what had formed since. :) And look at the people we have helped and saved from dictators such as the leaders of the past that controlled Russia, That is the type people the US has fought to bring down and to bring people out of suppression of that type leader. Fine to try and put the US down, but all one has to do, especially with Russia is look where they came from and now at the path they are taking back to that time of the past.
SinnFainer at 07:05 PM JST - 17th August

All that I wish to tell, that the USA have untied this conflict between Georgia and Russia if the facts are interesting, about that as it has occured, can look on the Internet. Everyone try to blame Russia, speak that Russia - an aggressor, all this occurs because the press of the USA has given the false information on all mass media. And it already in turn can be perceived as an attack to Russia.
The truth in that the USA during several years delivered the weapon in Georgia, trained their soldier, and now try to hide these facts and to impose the point of view to all. If their plan would be in that what to humiliate Russia in opinion of other countries at them it has not turned out. But I think that they tried to check up on what Russia at present, a field of disorder Soviet Union is capable. Only one country can resist to all power of the USA and it is Russia. It also is world balance, of what party arrows of weights would not be moved, to the world to not avoid a collapse.
adaydream at 02:36 AM JST - 18th August

SuperLib, I'd have gotten back to you sooner, but I'm at nudie camp. Finally stopped from the Luau Festival to finally get back online.

My post are a conbination of sarcasm and truth.

We, the United States started this.

george bush attacks Iraq on flimsy if not lieing reasons. Russis was totally against this and the US went on with george bush's personal vindetta. Forget about the real war on terror in Afghanistan and attack Iraq. Pushing the US agenda of forcing the world to gdorge bush's and the republican thinking.

Russia has gone into Iran and started helping Iran to fill their country's agenda and obtain nuclear power. The US has been infront of their face, Iran's and Russia's, forcing the warmonger attitude and quietly threatening Russia that they have to leave Iran and they must fall into lock-step with the US or be a real enemy to our ideals.

Now we have Georgia moving into South Ossetia and Russia protecting their perceived interests. ((OIL. I have to first ask, if the pipeline wasn't running through Georgia, would we be so pro-active here?))

France stepped in and started trying to broker a peace agreement or at least a cease fire. ((Applaud France for being the adults here.))

Now we have the US (bush and rice) beating their chest and screaming at Russia, get out...we will protect our interest...get out, we are all Georgians...get out...... This country just beating their chest even more trying to be the supercountry it used to be.

Where was cheney and rice during the disaster in New Orleans? Gone hunting and buying shoes. Were they doing what they could to help the victoms of Katrina? No, they were playing around. But now that Russia has taken a stand in a situation in their world part of thge world, again we're beating our chest.

SuperLib, I'm definately not advocating another war. I never advocated george bush's wanted war in Iraq. So why would I want a war in Georgia? But I hear these posters who are beating their American war-chest of we'll kick their butts and Russia is our dire enemy.....

It's like, shut up. Let's get some peace here. Rational minds are needed here. More Sarcozy and less bush. More brain power not thinking from their butts.

And going into the Czezh Rep and Poland and getting agreements to place our anti-ballistic missisles in there countries was the straw that broke the camels. It would have been one thing if France or Great Britain or Isreal to advocate anti-ballistic missiles, but for the US to go way over there to push our agenda in the Euroasian landscape was stupid. It was an antaginizing to the ussians just to mention. To go ahead and get this agreement begged for confrontation. When I posted this months ago, I was scoffed off. SuperLib, I believe you were my biggest scoffer when I said this would just revitilize the cold war and you told me I was full of it. Posters like yourself said I was full of it. I just might be correct. This has been a real big catalyst in this incursion by Russia. Now Russia threatens bombing Warsaw, Poland.

I advocate, giving Georgia aid and calming down the beating the chest rheteric. This is a problem that we have an opportunity to either defuse or make much worse. We have seen that george bush has only provoked problems. I haven't seen him do anything to that's been beneficial.

My comment "So when will we be supporting Georgia militarily and pushing out Russia since we have their back?" was sarcasm to my pro-war posters who have advocated pushing their agenda.

I haven't seen anything the past few days. I haven't watch TV news, read whats posted on the net or even been here on JT. So whatever has occured, I'm unaware.

There you go SuperLib. You wanted my clarification. Like you really needed it. < :-)
SuperLib at 03:31 AM JST - 18th August

I think I see what you're saying, daydream.

Russia's incursion into Georgia had to do with the US in the Ukrane, the US in Georgia, the US in Poland, the US in the Czech Republic, the US in Iraq, the US dealing with Iran, and just Republicans being Republicans. Dick Cheney went hunting and Condi Rice bought shoes. Katrina was a disaster.

Does that sum it up?

Look....you're obsessed with Republicans and Bush. Your obsession dictates the positions that you take in political discussions. You're literally not able to have a single discussion about any topic without slipping into a tirade about Bush. Your are single minded in purpose regardless of the specifics of the situation. Any conversation that has anything to do with politics or world affairs will turn into one of your tirades about Bush 100% of the time. Guaranteed. Do you feel that that's a natural course of action that a rational man takes? To reach the same conclusion regardless of that the topic is?

george bush attacks Iraq on flimsy if not lieing reasons.

You've mentioned this hundred of times. Think about that. Literally hundreds. The same repetitive phrase over and over and over again regardless of the topic at hand. Someone could train a parrot to do what you do. If you don't think you have an unhealthy obsession with Bush, can you tell me the difference between you and someone who does have any unhealthy obsession with Bush?

Your posts are meaningless rambles that only serve to feed your obsession. Christ, you posted information about Rice buying shoes and Katrina? Did you even notice that your post neglected to mention Georgia soldiers killing Russian soldiers as a possible reason why Russia responded the way they did? Instead you're telling us about Cheney hunting? What's wrong with you?

I'm sorry to say that you're probably too far gone. And I say I'm sorry because I know you're a fellow American. But people like you belong as a wax figure in a museum somewhere with a plaque in front labeled "The Bush Obsessed, 2000-2008." Visitors ask any question about world politics then push a button and hear a recorded message saying, "Bush invaded Iraq based on lies." I'm sorry that the war in Iraq damaged your brain into paralysis, but in reality the rational people in the world are the ones who have to deal with it. And I can honestly tell you that you're a burden to rational people everywhere.
adaydream at 09:27 PM JST - 18th August

SuperLib, you ask for a clarification. I guess I should just follow the lead of you republicans. But I am an independent thinker.

We disagree, it's not something new.

Have a good day. < :-)
SuperLib at 01:09 AM JST - 19th August

Get help soon.
TonyUS at 05:08 PM JST - 22nd August

I also keep hearing this trash Bush talk about invading Iraq again and again, but one point is that the US has always sided on those that did not have the power to rise above suppression of dictators, so even with Iraq that stands true, even if it was for the main reason of oil, which I am certain Bush and his crew had mainly on their minds, or we would have been in Burma a long time ago decapitating the military rule over those people, which Burma before that was said to the jewel of Southeast Asia and so beautiful in all aspects, but that is another topic. We know the Oil of Iraq played a decisive roll in the US going into Iraq, or was it the assassination plan for the Sr. BUsh while over there, or was it just plain reasoning of the people of US at the time of desert storm saying the job was never done under Bush sr. Whatever, US did not cause or is responsible for anything Russia has done with Georgia. Russia invaded and is supporting separatist groups within Georgia and invaded a democratic country with a leader voted in to lead by the people of Georgia, and as I say again, this would be the very same as another country supporting chetnia rebels and moving into Russia to fight for them. Russia is completely in the wrong and I just wish Georgia had the means to have shot down every bomber and every other aircraft that invaded its air space, the same with on land. I am hoping in the future these break away states have the means to make Russia suffer serious consequences in any move like this in the future. Right now Ukraine should be armed by its allies to give Russian troops resistance and the ability to counter any insurgent upon them by the Russian forces, at least to cause them casualties on land and in the air. This move by Russia is against a sovereign state and a country that elected its leader by democratic means and what the majority of the people wanted, whether Russia likes it or not or whether the majority of people like it or not. If these people do not like what the rest of the people of Georgia voted on then they should get out and move to Russia if that is their wish, It gives them no right to split the country of Georgia or change any borders of Georgia, and especially Russia has no right to do so.

Aday you keep blaming Bush and the US, you are way off of what is right and wrong especially when trying to make an argument on a topic that concerns an action against a democratic state with a leader voted in by the people and of a state with defined borders, I hope you do not think it is right or good of Russia to have done so, but also Russia’s actions can not be backed by using the US as the base of such actions that Russia has taken against a country that is nothing but a democracy based on the people. What is a shame is NATO members having to be so dependent on Russia for energy to where they have decided they have no choice but to look on and not take any decisive action against these moves, now that is the pits!!!!!! NATO might as well be dissolved!!!!!!!!!!! Just as the UN, both has become nothing but organizations that is a waste of money and of no power or direction of rightfulness or supporter of such.. Totally worthless, as we see with Russia's actions!!!