Slamming Trump, Clinton promises action on immigration

Trump’s proposals, said Clinton, would deport 16 million immigrants currently living in the United States, cost the country around $1 trillion in economic output and weaken a fundamental American value.

Trump did not say how much he would spend in house to house searches and seizures of immigrants but at 16 million to deport on January 21st the logical question is 'How Much Is the Bigot In the Window?'

Clinton has made revamping the country’s immigration system a key plank of her presidential campaign. She has said she will introduce legislation during her first 100 days in office.

Open borders is not a sane way to revamp a nations immigration system. But flooding the nation with cheap labor and recipients of public assistance is a good way keep Hillary's buddies on Wall Street happy and ensures the Democrat party's future hold on power.

Wolfpack, correct. Its win-win: cheap labor and hillary and the other pseudo liberals can pose as compassionate and "progressive", when thry are just the opposite.

Lots of trucks to pick from,,,,,go TRUMP.

She should love it that he picked a pro Amnesty running mate in Mike Pence....

T has nothing. The republicans have nothing. They have had nothing for 8 years except hatred of Obama, which they're now replacing with hatred of Hillary. They have not put forth one idea, one plan, one goal that will help America face the 21st century. The republicans want to sanctify the 1950s, ignore 100 years of scientific progress, and vilify everyone who doesn't agree with them. Name calling cannot fill a void. . .

"Trump’s promises to build a wall along the Southern border, create a special deportation force to catch undocumented immigrants and references to Mexican immigrants as criminals and rapists have alienated many Latino voters." - article

Not to mention the cost of housing, board and incarceration costs and then add the 25 billion wall to nowhere.

Trump's Campaign was so poorly conceived Trump made the demonization of Mexicans and Muslims as his ticket to ride to the White House.

After denouncing the Pope, and Veterans with Trump's attack on Senator McCain, Trump returns to the sick that the Campaign began with.

For Goodness Sakes, Close Cleveland now, before it's too late.

Trump’s proposals, said Clinton, would deport 16 million immigrants currently living in the United States, cost the country around $1 trillion in economic output and weaken a fundamental American value.

When did ILLEGAL immigration become a "fundamental American value"? And how is curbing the flow of ILLEGAL immigration in any way bigoted?

Illegal is not a race, skin color or ethnicity, it is a character trait of dishonesty.

All the more reason why this woman is undeserving of being president, pathetic! I really hope Trump cleans her clock!

"Illegal is not a race, skin color or ethnicity, it is a character trait of dishonesty." - comments

Desperation more likely.

“I got a letter from a mom the other day who said her adopted son asked her with a shaky voice if President Trump will send him back to Ethiopia,” Clinton said in a Wednesday speech in Springfield, Ill.

Any reporter with (courage) would have asked her to produce that letter. I bet it doesn't exist. Or maybe it's with the thousands of emails she and her lawyers deleted before the FBI found them.

The Gang of 8 is supposedly putting the band back together again. That would be the 4 Democrats and 4 Republicans who presented a plan a few years ago that had bipartisan support and the votes to pass. Other GOP members stopped the vote from happening and immediately started to attack their GOP colleagues, so we kept the status quo. I doubt many people in the bubble even know about this.

Will they be able to get something done this time? It's hard to see it happening. Right wing Republicans will block any vote that has bipartisan support and they refuse to put forth any kind of policy of their own. By refusing to lead and refusing to let anyone else's plan go forward we have the usual gridlock. Also, this issue has reached post-truth status since most GOP members repeat the lie that Amnesty is handed out. That really makes things difficult.

When did ILLEGAL immigration become a "fundamental American value"? And how is curbing the flow of ILLEGAL immigration in any way bigoted?

Of course, but notice how the Democrats don't put the word 'illegal' in there are all. When's the last time you saw anyone slamming Trump who used the phrase 'illegal immigrants'? It's always 'immigrants' and it's the giant falsehood they've based their bashing on. Having a border is racist? Curbing illegal immigration is racist? Overstaying in Mexico (oh, the irony!) is prosecuted as a felony. No country in the world allows massive illegal immigration... the borders of the US have to be porous or we're racist? Everybody, let your visa for Japan lapse in solidarity! No? You might get deported? Snort....

“I got a letter from a mom the other day who said her adopted son asked her with a shaky voice if President Trump will send him back to Ethiopia,” Clinton said in a Wednesday speech in Springfield, Ill."

When did Trump say he was going after legal immigrants, and adopted children? This is Hillary Glurge™ at it's best. We're all supposed to clutch our pearls and go "Awwwwww..." All the mother had to say was 'You misunderstood that, honey, Mr. Trump was talking about people who are in our country illegally", oh, but no, she has to write to Hillary?

Open borders is not a sane way to revamp a nations immigration system.

Where has open borders ever been suggested for the US? Only by extreme rightists and bigots trying to add fuel to each other's respective hunka hunks of burning hate. Is the intent of bringing that up to keep your hate aflame in hopes of making Americans hate even more?

@DougMacarthy Lots of trucks to pick from,,,,,go TRUMP.

More hard-hitting flame and flee. Do you have something of substance to add, or do you have to hurry back to teach another class of head, shoulders, knees and toes?

I really hope Trump cleans her clock!

But to do so he'd probably have to outsource the task to one of his sweat shops in Bangladesh, China or Mexico.

Considering what has happened in Nice today -- in a country with an open door policy like the one Mrs. Bill Clinton advocates -- Mr. Trump just won the presidency. At this rate, by November Mrs. Clinton won't get any votes. . . .

Trump has one main platform which can get him elected, and that is to fight illegal immigration. Either Hillary is being poor advised, or she simply doesn't know what she is talking about, but she underestimates the anger caused by the failure of government to enforce immigration laws.

Why are these laws not enforced? For two reasons. First, the republican party wants cheap labor. Second, the democrat party wants to increase the permanent underclass which always votes democrat. The rest of the people get stuck with lower wages, higher crime, and an increased tax burden.

Your average illegal alien has a 10th grade eduction. The great majority are spanish speakers, but many are illiterate even in spanish. Statistically-speaking, those who don't finish high school consume more in government benefits than the contribute in taxes, and this applies to legal citizens of all races. For every $10k an illegal alien pays in tax, they consume about $24k in state benefits. A longstanding problem with hispanic immigrants is that among all ethnicities, they have by far the highest dropout rate, so even the children and grandchildren of illegal aliens, though they be US citizens, are likely to consume more in state benefits than they pay in taxes.

Then there is the safety issue. About 14% of prisoners in the federal prison system are illegal aliens, if you add those being held on immigration charges, you end up with more than one-third of the prison population. Illegal aliens are approximately four times more likely to commit crimes than citizens. In country jails in metro areas, illegal aliens can make up more than 20% of the prison population. In LA county, more than 90% of arrest warrants for murder are issued to illegal aliens.

Then there is the cost of medical care. Many here may not know it, but for decades it has been illegal for any American hospital to deny treatment to any person for any reason; America does not have free health care per-se, but there is no real requirement that you pay for treatment you receive. If you go to the emergency room in any southwestern state, or in larger cities in any state, you will find that most of those getting treatment are speaking spanish. The net loss to the US healthcare system for treating illegal aliens is a little over $10 billion annually, two-thirds of that lost being absorbed by the states, the rest by the federal government.

Trump strikes a strong note with those who are fed up with illegal immigration, and the government's refusal do do anything about it. All we hear about is how we need "comprehensive immigration reform." But most people don't know that a comprehensive immigration bill was signed into law in 1986. This law gave amnesty to those aliens residing in America at the time, about 3 million people. The reform stated clearly that "Immigration laws shall be vigorously enforced." But now with about 12 million illegal immigrants living in America, we can see how "vigorously enforced" immigration laws have been. There is no pointing in passing further reforms if existing laws are not enforced, as future laws are certainly not going to be enforced any more strongly than current laws. Immigrating to America illegally is a crime, it always has been. Yet, to people like Obama and now Hillary, not all laws are worthy of being enforced, and this sets a remarkably bad precedent for a country which is built upon the rule of law. When, after being elected, one swears to uphold the law, one must be held accountable if one refuses to do so.

If Trump wants to win the election, all he has to do is stand on this one platform.

I don't understand why Republicans want to kill so many Muslims.

When did ILLEGAL immigration become a "fundamental American value"? And how is curbing the flow of ILLEGAL immigration in any way bigoted?

Probably the most surreal of the Left's accomplishments has been it's Orwellian manipulation of language. Thoughtcrime is rampant in America today. A self avowed black racists' motivations become "unclear". An Islamic radicals murder of 13 soldiers on a military base is workplace 'violence.' Illegal becomes 'undocumented' as if it changes their status in reality. The idea that wanting to have a secure and controlled border is somehow racist is just delusional PC-speak. But the masses on the Left are brainwashed into accepting it out of ideological solidarity. All other nations do not have the same twisted view that it is wrong to protect their own peoples interests over those who are citizens of other nations.

The idea of allowing millions of illegal immigrants suddenly become legal is of course amnesty. That's what it was called in the 80's when it was first tried and failed so badly the problem is 10 times worse now. Amnesty will not reform immigration problems but it will 'fundamentally change America'. It brings in huge numbers of ready made poor from third world nations who lack an understanding of America's founding principles. Because of multiculturalism they are not educated to know that the same failed ideas that caused them to flee their own countries will just bring about the same misery in America.

Where has open borders ever been suggested for the US? Only by extreme rightists and bigots trying to add fuel to each other's respective hunka hunks of burning hate. Is the intent of bringing that up to keep your hate aflame in hopes of making Americans hate even more?

Oh, stop! I am from a border state and if you go along the San Diego border, you can see gaps everywhere, it's a complete joke. California is the bluest of blue states and a liberal utopia, they have never taken the border seriously, ever intended to do anything, take action or seal it off, NEVER! The rest of us hate THE POLITICIANS, NOT THE PEOPLE! It's not their fault that our borders are a nightmare! I get so tired of liberals trying to make everything a race issue, enough already! This is a political issue.

But to do so he'd probably have to outsource the task to one of his sweat shops in Bangladesh, China or Mexico.

No, he would use American citizens in the US for that.

I don't understand why Republicans want to kill so many Muslims

You mean, radical Jihadists, big difference! Probably because libs are too scared to do it.

SuperLib: I don't understand why Republicans want to kill so many Muslims.

I don't understand why so many Democrats do not understand why so many Muslims want to kill Americans.

Oh, stop! I am from a border state and if you go along the San Diego border, you can see gaps everywhere, it's a complete joke. California is the bluest of blue states and a liberal utopia, they have never taken the border seriously, ever intended to do anything, take action or seal it off, NEVER!

You ignored the question:

Where has open borders ever been suggested for the US?

Please show where anyone has ever suggested this.

Otherwise you are saying liberals have said things they have never said - ie making it up.

Wolfpack: I don't understand why so many Democrats do not understand why so many Muslims want to kill Americans

All I know is that there are two truths: The Democrats want an open border where anyone can walk in at any time, and Republicans want a system where they are free to pull out guns and kill Muslims on sight.

All I know is that there are two truths: The Democrats want an open border where anyone can walk in at any time, and Republicans want a system where they are free to pull out guns and kill Muslims on sight.

@SuperLib. I know you are against the second---do you support the first?

"Slamming Trump"

Heh heh, Hillary still doesn't get that when you slam Trump, he just gets bigger and stronger.

She's the one who's going to get slammed in November.

"She should love it that he picked a pro Amnesty running mate in Mike Pence"

Also he loves TPP.

To whoever thumbed me down for my question to SuperLib; why are you against a question being asked? Are you so thin-skinned that dialogue scares you? I would just like to know if he or she supports open borders. Is that so bad?

I hope HRC is watching the news coverage in France. France, like England, needs to pull out of the EU.

As one of the "plebian citizens" on the street, I can definitely say the elitist politicians house of cards on illegal immigration is already folding. Not only am I still seeing homeless/jobless American's on the street... I'm also seeing homeless/jobless Mexican's on the street.

They've been sitting on their ands too long ignoring and mishandling this issue, and while they're in their lovely houses with big tax free salaries duping US citizens with purty (yet empty) promises, the pot is boiling over while they're having a grand old time n their little elitist bubble.

Sangetsu,

The idea that illegal immigrants commit crimes out of proportion to their number is false. One study found it to be about 1/3 that of native born Americans:

The incarceration rate for foreign-born adults is 297 per 100,000 in the population, compared [with] 813 per 100,000 for U.S.-born adults.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-mythical-connection-between-immigrants-and-crime-1436916798 One reason is clear: get busted, get deported.

You state that, "For every $10k an illegal alien pays in tax, they consume about $24k in state benefits." I'd like to see your source; common sense argues against it. Regarding cost to society, another study found:

illegal immigrants actually contribute more to public coffers in taxes than they cost in social services and contribute to the U.S. economy through their investments and consumption of goods and services; filling of millions of essential worker positions resulting in subsidiary job creation, increased productivity and lower costs of goods and services; and unrequited contributions to Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance programs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_immigrants_in_the_United_States#Cost-benefit_analysis That's right: the majority of illegal immigrants pay taxes for services most never receive. (By the way, concerned as you are about freeloading off of emergency room treatment, you must be quite a strong Obamacare supporter.)

I agree that the average educational level of illegal immigrants is quite low (some 60% do not even have a high school education, and ripples from this may last generations); however, they types of jobs they do generally do not require a high degree of skill.

You're probably aware that Obama has deported illegal immigrants at a higher rate than any of his predecessors, and that spending on border security has soared. What else would you propose?

The elephant in the room is what to do with the 11 million already in the US. Trump says send them home, and many of his supporters agree. The logistics of that are mind-boggling. One study concluded:

Removing all 11.2 million undocumented immigrants, both forcibly and through Mitt Romney's infamous "self-deportation" policy, would take about 20 years and cost the government between $400 billion and $600 billion. The impact on the economy would be even larger, according to the study: Real GDP would drop by nearly $1.6 trillion and the policy would shave 5.7 percent off economic growth.

Democrats in no way support "open borders." What Democrats support is a realistic way to deal with those already established in the US. This does not necessarily mean a path to citizenship. It does mean allowing these people to legalize their status. Sober people on both sides of the aisle have found this to be the only practical solution, but right-wing intransigence has made it an impossibility for decades.

I do understand the sentiment of those who feel that the US has been invaded. I just do not agree with their deportation solution, both due to compassion and practicality. The worst case would be to continue kicking the can down the road.

I just do not agree with their deportation solution, both due to compassion and practicality.

Compassion? Have you not seen these low lifes camping out every day in front of your local Home Depot? Urinating in the parking lots and bird-dogging every decent looking woman in a skirt.

I don't expect 1/2 to be deported, any number near that will be greatly be appreciated among Americans.

Typical Clinton fodder. she doesn't deserve to be elected, even with a loon like Trump as the opposition.

it does mean allowing these people to legalize their status

As a resident living in a border state, there is a way for "these people" to reside here in the U.S.: Apply for and get a proper visa. The moment they stepped onto American soil illegally, they became criminals pure and simple. Mrs. Clinton and those listening to the liberal MSM echo chamber believes that jumping to the front of the line ahead of people who are going through proper U.S. administrative requirements is acceptable and they should be rewarded by being allowed to remain here. It is not. Ship them back, ban them from The U.S. or at least ten years and then require them to jump through the hoops to come back here with a bona fide visa in their possession.

I read on this site that the government over there has a zero tolerance policy when it comes to folks who are in that country illegally. When caught, they are sent packing. Bravo. In this regard, America could learn something from Japan. . . .

I read on this site that the government over there has a zero tolerance policy when it comes to folks who are in that country illegally. When caught, they are sent packing. Bravo. In this regard, America could learn something from Japan. . . .

It only makes sense.

As a resident living in a border state, there is a way for "these people" to reside here in the U.S.: Apply for and get a proper visa. The moment they stepped onto American soil illegally, they became criminals pure and simple.

Either you have borders and a nation of rules and law OR you just allow anyone to come in and you have essentially a borderless nation and anarchy and No, I don't want to pay for it either.

Yes, a borderless nation where anyone can come in. Plus GOP proposals to allow the hunting of Muslims for sport.

I noticed that the usual people participating here are again expressing very emotional opinions which does not really address the issue out forth by this article. (sangetsu03) put forth a rather meaningful argument that adds some meaningful perspective to the issue of Immigration within the USA.

Immigration is not an "idealistic value" nor is it a "right" for anyone, at least not in the current state of the world. Immigration has to do with a nation state, its borders, and citizenship. With citizenship comes "shared" responsibilities. With the satisfaction, the fulfillment of those responsibilities of citizenship, does citizen's rights come into play.

With any nation state that state must first exist and survive. It exists with borders, a defined territory (physically) within which a society that agrees to and are willing to work, share and stay together for their common survival. Without that common purpose of survival, which includes commitment to certain values and standards which allows individuals to participate synergistically, without harming and hurting each other. That is often enforced by laws which dictate polices and procedures to assure such meaningful relationship.

In any case to assure that synergy, that nations state must for its survival be able to "control" migration into (immigration) into that country to assure that only those that are synergistic to that society are allowed in.

To do that immigration laws must be enforced and the borders secured to be able to identify those that are desirable and those that are not. It is because the laws were not enforced and because the borders were not secured for what ever reasons, is the cause of our discussion today. If one were to ask to have a safe and secure nation state (country) then action and not rhetoric and idealistic theorizing in the name of humanity is in order. What is needed is physical action to secure the USA.

You cannot stop a raging bull, a charging bear, a knife or a bullet with words.

That is exactly the same situation in Japan, our host country.

A borderless USA would allow all third world to flock into the country and take advantage of the free handouts SuperLib.

That's insane extreme liberalism. As bass pointed out, I don't want to pay for them either!

Show the proof please! Where can you find the GOP wanting to hunt Muslims for sport? Extreme lying liberalism again!

The world will have a major population reduction with extreme liberal views within two decades if ever those views become the majority. It's frightening enough to even read some people agree with those views!!!

Yes, our borders are wide open and anyone can come in and them get handed citizenship. But I don't think GOP laws that allow illegals to be shot by any American citizen would help. It's just legalized murder and insane that conservatives support it.

"But I don't think GOP laws that allow illegals to be shot by any American citizen would help. It's just legalized murder and insane that conservatives support it."

Do you have any proof that GOP leaders are pushing for laws to kill illegals for simply being illegal? Be careful; I'm talking about "laws" here.

Sam, Lib is toying with you as he's frustrated with this whole "open borders" malarkey. As I mentioned above, Obama has deported far more illegal immigrants than did any of his predecessors (look it up - even Trump noted it recently), so the claim that somehow Dems are for "open borders" makes about as much sense as claiming that Repubs would allow open season on Muslims: zero. Still, I'm sure that many such as Bass will continue to spout off about "open borders" nevertheless. It gets frustrating trying to converse with a broken record.

@Laguna. OK, thanks for the insight. I was being sincere in asking; no snideness nor sarcasm intended. THanks again.

Sam, if you look at the proposals put forth, none of them call for open borders and none of them call for handing out citizenship. And no, they don't propose murdering illegals, but imagine if the opposition immediately rejected any proposal you create because that's what they say you are proposing. Its frustrating when you are dealing with people who are so easily misled.

Plus GOP proposals to allow the hunting of Muslims for sport.

Not for sport. For peace.

Who's side are you on?? If they're trying to instill fear in our everyday lives on our own soil, then we obviously have a problem. Have you not been watching the news? Nice, FR, + all the killings during Ramadan?

@SuperLib. While none of the proposals call for open borders in name, a number of Democractic proposals do allow for "anchor babies" and "amnesty" for illegals which is tantamount to handing out citizenship depending on your point of view. While I do not think we should necessarily be arresting people and deporting them, these people have broken the law and should not be given a free pass, especially at the expense of people who have followed the law. I am all for immigration as long as it is legal and as long as it benefits the US. It is not the purpose of the US immigration policy to solve problems for the Third World.

The word Amnesty is a problem itself. You could have someone wait 50 years, pay double taxes, get no protection at all, anything you want, but if you give him citizenship then technically you can say the plan includes amnesty. That might be radically different from the "amnesty" other people are imagining.

And look at the responses from Republicans here:

Wolfpack: "Open borders is not a sane way to revamp a nations immigration system."

Kabukideath: "And how is curbing the flow of ILLEGAL immigration in any way bigoted?"

Himajin: "Having a border is racist?"

Texas A&M Aggie: "a country with an open door policy like the one Mrs. Bill Clinton advocates"

kazetsukai: "With any nation state that state must first exist and survive. It exists with borders"

At any given time too many Republican arguments are straw men. They literally have convinced themselves that Democrats want no borders at all. Isn't that weird? How did the argument get so twisted and cemented in the bubble? It's just hard to teach common sense.

There's no "front of the line" provision for these people, they are actually put to the back of the line and are stripped of benefits while they are taxed, pay back taxes, and cannot vote. You can say that every day to a Republican and the very next day he will be outside telling people that illegals go to the front of the line. How can a debate exist?

Being against the wall doesn't mean you're for open borders. The wall is stupid, time consuming, hard to maintain, expensive, and won't make much of a dent in anything. You are talking about sending construction crews to remote parts of the desert to build a fence, then maintain it. Cost estimates are anywhere from $7 billion to $20 billion, plus maintenance, and the consensus by people who don't talk like those above is that the money could be much, much more productive elsewhere. Now say that to a Republican every day, and as soon as your lips stop moving he'll tell everyone that you want no borders at all.

When you read a story about an illegal committing a crime, being arrested, and then released, would you believe that just about everyone else in this country thinks that's BS, too? That's where we should be pouring $20 billion.

@SuperLib. Thanks for your reply which was well thought out and written. I love debate and think it is a good way to move forward.

Here is part of what you wrote: "And look at the responses from Republicans here: Wolfpack: "Open borders is not a sane way to revamp a nations immigration system." Kabukideath: "And how is curbing the flow of ILLEGAL immigration in any way bigoted?" Himajin: "Having a border is racist?" Texas A&M Aggie: "a country with an open door policy like the one Mrs. Bill Clinton advocates" kazetsukai: "With any nation state that state must first exist and survive. It exists with borders""

First, you insinuate that anyone who disagrees with you is a Republican. I am not and doubt many others on this site are. While we have no love for the Democrats we don't feel a whole lot better about the other side.

Second, I would ask which one of these statements is unreasonable? Open borders is a bad idea and it is not racists to curb illegal immigration.

Third, you said the argument gets twisted into the Democrats being painted unfairly as wanting no borders. I beg to differ. While the current president and Democrat front-runner may not say "amnesty" that is what their policies amount to. It's like a child being told not to eat cookies and he say, "I'm not eating cookies, I'm eating baked goods that are sweet." Again I am not a Republican and I believe that Republicans want illegal immigration just as much as the Democrats for the cheap labor etc and I long to see the day when CEO's do the perp work for hiring illegals. But the Dems want open borders and amnesty---thirty million voters in key states and the next 50 years belongs to the Left.

Fourth, you said that illegal immigrants will not be sent to the front of the line. I'm old enough to remember Ted Kennedy's immigration act and that is exactly what happened and those like me who are old enough to remember are not going to be snookered twice---fix the border then we'll talk about "immigration reform."

You didn't mention anchor babies; something the Dems also want and something I am 100% against.

Thanks again for your views.

Sam

Second, I would ask which one of these statements is unreasonable? Open borders is a bad idea and it is not racists to curb illegal immigration.

Exactly, its NOT racists at all. Not even close. We are a nation (or should be a nation) of laws right?

If a business posts, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" does that mean they're racists too? No shirt, no shoes, no service. We need some kind of law & order, more importantly, accountability. The American people deserve no less.

This old bird needs to go play grandma and stop preaching the what if fear game! She has been in politics for a long time and is one of the main reasons the country is the way it is. She has th nerve to say DT is preaching division in this country is her messages just the same? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jkfE10g8xbc Here is a candidate should be trying out for a spot on the Olympic gymnastics team she has flipped and flopped everywhere! She is a liar and can't be trusted! I am not a Donald Trump fan but a liar I have no tolerance for!

I think Hillary is actually a Donald Trump plant.

I think Hillary is actually a Donald Trump plant.

That would be some pretty impressive forward thinking, having her run in 2008 in preparation for him to run in 2016.

Second, I would ask which one of these statements is unreasonable?

The ones that are used in an immigration debate as a way to mislead others about the opposition's plan. No one is calling for open borders, but look at the sheer number of people on a single message board who tell us daily that that is the case. That only happens if they are fed the lie over and over and over again. Heck, do the research yourself and give it to them and see what they say. Don't take my word for it.

While the current president and Democrat front-runner may not say "amnesty" that is what their policies amount to

You have to options for this. You can either accept that there will be some policy that will create a path to citizenship (call it amnesty if you want) or we will be rounding up and deporting 12,000,000 people. I think the latter is logistically impossible so I choose the former by default. In fact, any plan that includes deporting 12,000,000 people will be hard for me to accept unless it includes an actual workable plan on how you're going to make it happen.

thirty million voters in key states and the next 50 years belongs to the Left.

See the above. As for the votes, they will be free to vote for whichever party they want to. If Republicans would make more of an effort to expand their base they could even out compete Democrats for the Latino vote. But when I see statements like yours it makes me believe the GOP has written off Latinos entirely and that's your choice.

Fourth, you said that illegal immigrants will not be sent to the front of the line. I'm old enough to remember Ted Kennedy's immigration act and that is exactly what happened and those like me who are old enough to remember are not going to be snookered twice---fix the border then we'll talk about "immigration reform."

Sam, that's exactly what the plan does. The path to citizenship doesn't even begin until Republicans sign off that the border is secure. It gave them all the cards and all the power to put the process on hold until they were satisfied. That was one of the compromises that the Democrats made in a bipartisan plan. Your talking point should have died with that but it's still being repeated today. Well add it to the other misconceptions mentioned on this thread.