Strauss-Kahn faces new sexual assault complaint from French writer
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0
chewitup
If only she had come forward years ago...she could have had her character ripped apart by DSKs damage control squad all alone. This way, at least she has company! I am sure by the time this is done, we hear that she too once was a prostitute, lied about something like her weight, had an affair with a married man, or once got arrested for DUI. Just don't expect DSK to comment directly on the attempted rape allegation. At least this time he can claim he does not remember, and given the time frame, actually have reasonable doubt on his side this time.
-2
minello7
This woman is either very brave a little naive, or a little stupid. Coming forward at this late stage with these allegations, opens up her own life to scrutiny by the whole media and political circus. Her motives will certainly be questioned. Only she and DSK know the truth. In a case like this, the only winners are the lawyers.
2
Eric Schneider
It would seem that DSK has a nasty habit. I guess if he's been carrying on this way all along he's going to get it in the end.
-4
johninnaha
I don't think this little story has much to do with DSK's habits, the hotel lady or this writer.
There has to be something else going on here.
It rather looks like he got up someone's nose and he's being set up.
1
Frungy
This allegation has no bearing on the current case unless you want to use the Salem Witch Trial model of justice where enough unsupported allegations suddenly qualify as evidence.
If she has evidence of the alleged attempted rape, and since she was allegedly meeting with DSK to research her book Erreurs avouées… (au masculin), I would be surprised if she wasn't at the very least running a dictaphone, then let her bring it forward for a French court to judge. If she has no evidence then she'd best sit back down and keep her mouth shut, because otherwise this is just unsupported slander and she'll be sued like any other liar trying to get some free advertising by accusing someone famous of something.
0
presto345
Quote from the BBC news page.
Things don't look good for Strauss Kahn. But I find the timing of Banon's accusations highly suspicious.
-1
Kapuna
Why did she wait 9 years to accuse?
2
Triumvere
We've been over this:
1) Her mother, a politician in DSK's party, told her to shut-up as it might hurt her political career. 2) She was afraid that, given DSK's status, no one would take her seriously. 3) She was inspired to go public now after DSK was arrested in New York.
A further note, she has accused him before, privately and pseudo-publicly (such as on that TV show, though they bleeped out DSK's name; its only that now she is formally accusing him.)
-3
Madverts
"Why did she wait 9 years to accuse?"
Presumable she can smell some money? Strange she makes her decision after supposedly deliverating since the American incident as the US case is starting to look like swiss cheese.
The timing of Banon's accusations is more than highly suspicious, but I'll be more interested in what evidence she's going to use to corroborate her allegations.
Then again since the presumption of innocence left via la fenêtre early on in this case, I'm expecting to some people to just believe he did it anyway.
I failt to see how a single "journalist" would keep quiet about the kind of attack she is claiming.
-4
Spidapig24
Sounds like she is throwing some dirt to try and get something (money / 15 minutes of fame) out of the situation. Why else would she wait so long, if it was as bad as she claimed she has missed the opportunity to have him charged with sexual assualt as the statute of limitations in France is 3 years, and she is only going to just get the attempted assualt case in, inside the timeline for that charge. Sounds more like an opportunist than a victim
0
Madverts
"A further note, she has accused him before, privately and pseudo-publicly (such as on that TV show, though they bleeped out DSK's name; its only that now she is formally accusing him.)"
So why is that Triumvere?
Who's to say that DSK's on-going power and influence still won't damage her?
And why decide to finally bring charges after weeks and weeks of umming and arrin but more importantly - as the US case is beginning to crumble?
And more to the point, what proof does she have?
1
chewitup
My dear Frungy! The time for that sort of statement was when all those unproven allegations against the maid started floating around, not now! Still several of them have not been proven in a court of law you know. But this allegation does have some support as there is an accuser. Seems just as supported as some of the allegations against the maid, but, baddabing, this is actually far more related to the case at hand, a history of attempted rape. Of course it will just boil down to another "she said, he said" where we don't know what happened but just give the prize to the one who can poke the most holes in the credibility of the other, which is usually the richest most powerful person in the room.
I really don't think she had a chance to prove her allegations even back in 2002. The big question is, why would she lie and do it long before this case came up? Several easy answers why she is actually pressing charges now. A lot of women get serious about a rapist when they see its obvious other women are in danger.
-2
Madverts
" A lot of women get serious about a rapist when they see its obvious other women are in danger."
And at the risk of being accused a sexist, a lot of women get (albiet somewhat understandably) overtly emotional about rape and rapists.
Strauss-Khan's lawayers have already filed suit against Bannon for false accusations. A serious charge here, I hope she has some proof to her claims.....
0
Serrano
"lived a luxurious lifestyle"
What! With millions homeless and starving?!
0
chewitup
No, I don't think it sexists. What it is is myoptic. You might like to pretend that western society is free from primitive prejudices but is not. Women who get raped are treated as "damaged goods" by a great many men. Who would want to handicap their love lives by so much as recounting a story of rape? And do you know how much easier it is for a woman to get a disease if raped? Generally she has to worry about pregnancy too. And do you think women don't get blamed for their own rapes anymore? They sure do! And can you imagine getting raped and not being believed? Fact is, us men scarcely have to worry about getting raped. Women are perpetual risk. Everytime they meet a new man, when can they know they are safe to be alone with him? Everytime she opens a door, who is behind it? Men have on average 3 times the upper body strength of women. Cold hard fact right there. Imagine a world full of men that are like Andre the Giant compared to you and imagine that they are all gay and you have a cute behind. Think you can sleep well tonight?
No sweat in a fair world. Because then it becomes DSK's turn to prove he didn't try to rape her. But, that probably won't be demanded at all. Probably, if he is acquitted, that will considered the same as "not guilty".
-2
steve@CPFC
If this man is found guilty with conclusive firensic evidence then he should be removed from society for life. IThe violation of the woman in this manner is unforgiveable and a man who does this will likely do again.
I have ideas for the removal of sex offenders from society, These are to make secure prisons for them where they must live until they pass on, If capable they would work for their keep. They would have decent accomadation and food. The main punishment being, never to be released.
0
chewitup
I think you should be more worried about violent people than say, peeping toms. Please consider that. The problem is not that DSK is accused of being a sexual deviant. The problem is that he is accused of being a violent woman abusing chav.
I am reminded of the many couples where the guy was accused of being a sex offender for violating the age of consent while the girl pleaded for mercy. Meanwhile, a violent rapist was being paroled from prison and another was walking scot-free out of a courtroom because while we could prove sex happened we could not prove it was not consensual.
-2
steve@CPFC
chewitup; Many violent offenders have been able to reform with therapy such as anger management. Sex offenders rarely reforma nd are too great a arisk to be placed back into society.
0
Serrano
"had dinner at a pricey Manhattan restaurant"
What! With millions starving?!
0
Frungy
Just for the record I'm not your "dear" anything, except possibly in the sense of putting a very high price tag on myself.
You infer (incorrectly) that some of the allegations about the maid have been proven in a court of law, which they have not. There has been no trial, nothing has been proven or disproven, and given the state of the prosecution's case it is unlikely that anything will ever be taken to trial and proven. Thus Strauss-Kahn is innocent by the rules of law (innocent until proven guilty).
There was an accuser in the maid case too... and she turned out to be a serial liar. The existence of an accusation is nothing more than the existence of an accusation. The accusation has to be supported by facts, corroborating evidence or something. If accusation was regarded as proof then if you disliked your boss and wanted their job you could just say they raped you, have them imprisoned and take their job. See the problem? ... probably not.
This boils down to precisely "she said, he said" unless she has been keeping some evidence like a dictaphone recording or physical evidence. This allegation does not prove anything, merely that someone else had the idea of blackmailing "the richest most powerful person in the room" with a rape allegation first.
Her book was about the failings of the most powerful men in politics... and you can't see how this sort of allegation might, just possibly, tie in to marketing her book? If she was angry enough to go on national television and denounce him on a TV show then surely she was angry enough to walk down to the police station and file charges? I mean the attack she describes, him grabbing at her bra and jeans, her kicking him, a violent struggle, would have left his DNA all over her clothes, bruises on him and defensive wounds on her (bruises, scratches, blood, etc). Filing charges now when there's absolutely no evidence left is... well, it's puzzling. She can't win the case, the maid case won't help since nothing has been proven in a court of law, and she's going to lose. Hence the only possible explanation is that she's doing it for either a political motive or for the publicity. Neither of which have anything to do with justice or the law, and when Strauss-Kahn retaliates by suing her for slander my sympathies will be firmly with him, because this clearly a deliberate waste of the taxpayer's money and perversion of the legal process in order to serve Banon's personal agenda. If I were the judge in this case and someone came to me with a nearly 10 year old allegation with no supporting evidence I'd dismiss the case out of hand and order the plaintive to pay costs as a penalty for wasting the court's time.
0
Madverts
"And do you know how much easier it is for a woman to get a disease if raped? Generally she has to worry about pregnancy too. And do you think women don't get blamed for their own rapes anymore? They sure do! And can you imagine getting raped and not being believed? Fact is, us men scarcely have to worry about getting raped. Women are perpetual risk. Everytime they meet a new man, when can they know they are safe to be alone with him? Everytime she opens a door, who is behind it?"
This waffling has nothing to do with the toipic.
"Men have on average 3 times the upper body strength of women. Cold hard fact right there. Imagine a world full of men that are like Andre the Giant compared to you and imagine that they are all gay and you have a cute behind. Think you can sleep well tonight?"
Neither does this strawman.
"No sweat in a fair world."
Really? Well the courtcase will see.
"Because then it becomes DSK's" turn to prove he didn't try to rape her"
So you're living in Saudia Arabia then? Please try to grasp that here in the West, the oness on proof is with the accuser. And poeple are innocent until proven guilty here in the modern world, which is why the DSK case is scadalous.
"But, that probably won't be demanded at all"
You're posts are nothing but suppositions.
1
Frungy
A lie repeated often enough assumes the status of fact.
Violent (non-sexual) criminals (assault and other violent crime) in the U.S. over 3 years are re-imprisoned at a recidivism rate of 22.6%. Sexual offenders (rape and other sexual crimes) in the U.S. over 3 years are re-imprisoned at a recidivism rate of 12.9%. (All statistics courtesy of the Bureau of Justice Statistics analysis tool, derived from the latest figures).
The recidivism rate for violent (non-sexual) criminals is nearly double that of sexual offenders. The U.S. statistics are fairly normal and line up with data from Australia and Europe (a few percentage points difference in each case, but similar enough in essence to be reliable).
Note: My apologies to the moderator for drifting off topic, however this "statistic" about the recidivism rate amongst sexual offenders is often repeated and it is incorrect, and so leads to support for expensive and inappropriate measures like attaching locators to sex offenders where the taxpayers would be much better protected if violent offenders were tagged (or all offenders for a period of 3~5 years after release).
-1
steve@CPFC
Frungy; 3 years in too short a time to do this, Most sex offendrrs are moitored after release for possibly years. Their crimes are more devasating and create moe fear in teh community. They must be removed.
0
chewitup
Oh yeah. Assuming DSK is guilty, everyone would rather have Son of Sam next door than DSK or Roman Polansky even. You keep tellilng yourself that!
Thank you Frungy for injecting statistics into this silliness, even though they don't seem to have fixed the panic du jour. If I did not know better, I would think the makers of those GPS ankle bracelets were transmitting subliminal signals through steve's TV set. I am sure they love him in any case though, along with everyone else who buys this rubbish that sex is worse than violence!
1
chewitup
Please try to grasp that that is what I said. If DSK files a suit against Banon, he will be the accuser and the burden of proof will be on him to prove she is lying. Might help to follow the thread?
0
arrestpaul
That's 2 women who have spoken up. I wonder how many more women will no longer be afraid of DSK's money and power and report his sexual attacks on them? Come on ladies, this is the time to make your voices heard and seek justice against this pervert.
0
Alphaape
It has been reported that the NYC DA will drop the charges against DSK. This seems to be going the same route as the Duke Lacrosse players case a few years ago.
As far as the new allegations, why wait 9 years? Some have posted that it is because of her mother's political affiliations with DSK. If that is the case, I guess mom will get the "Mother of the Year" Award. If what she says is true, then obviously she felt that her career (her mother's) was more important than finding just for her daughter. I think that by brining it up now, 9 years later is bad form. If she wanted to make a statement, I would have had a bit more respect for her if she would have brought this up at the beginning of this case, but now it looks like this is just more of the dirty politics of France coming out.
-1
Madverts
"Please try to grasp that that is what I said"
You said:
"Because then it becomes DSK's" turn to prove he didn't try to rape her"
This woman is accusing him, almost ten years later of a crime without, apparently any witnesses or proof.
1
Triumvere
Madverts,
See, here's the thing: I've never been raped. I'm going to take a risk and say that a lot of people posting here haven't been either. A lot of critics of rape allegation base their criticism on what they a imagine that a "reasonable person" would "logically" do in such a situation. Only problem is, they don't really know what they are talking about. People react to psycological trauma in very different ways, and while you can imagine you might do X or Y under extreme stress, you can't really know until it happens. I think the chances of you behaving "illogically" are pretty high, based on what we know about actual rape (and other types of assault) victims.
Basically, I am saying that Banon's behavior may seem obviously suspect to you, I see nothing contradictory in it. She was a young woman (if we take her story at face value) traumatized by an attack by a very powerful man. She was pressured by society and - grossly - by her own mother to keep it quiet. She struggled for with it for many years, gradually mustering enough courage to semi-publicly tell the story. Then when DSK was arrested, she finally felt she was able to speak out and be taken seriously.
I imagine it may. Therefore, it would take courage to speak out, no? And your last question is the very easiest to answer: rape trials are horrific experiences for genuine rape victims (even attempted victims, I'd imagine). If this goes to trial, she's going to go through all sorts of hell - not the least of which is being forced to re-live her attack. Even if she's gotten over that, she's going to have to face a society which largely believes DSK to be innocent. There's all kinds of pressure here. Banon believed that the New York case might bring DSK to justice wthout her having to go through all this herself. Now that it looks like it would fail, she feels she has to take action. Otherwise he'll get away with it. Again. (and again, and again, and...)
Now, none of this means her story is true. But I think it is entirely plausable.
Now this, on the otherhand, is a very good question. How does one prove rape several decades after the fact?
0
chewitup
@madverts
Yeah, after you said: "Strauss-Khan's lawayers have already filed suit against Bannon for false accusations." In that scenario DSK becomes the accuser. But even after this trial its still going to be "he said, she said". Just because an allegation cannot be proven does not mean its false.
0
sfjp330
TriumvereJul. 06, 2011 - 06:14AM JST. If this goes to trial, she's going to go through all sorts of hell - not the least of which is being forced to re-live her attack. Even if she's gotten over that, she's going to have to face a society which largely believes DSK to be innocent. There's all kinds of pressure here.
She's making a serious accusation and she has to prove beyond reasonable doubt. The only thing that’ll happen to her is that she gets deported for lying on her asylm application about being raped. They won’t bother trying to prove a rape did not happen. His sperm was found on her. Did she consent or not? She says she did not. But yet in her delicate emotional state, after this horrific violent sexual assault, she had the wherewithall to ask a convicted felon, on the phone while he was in jail, if he thought there was any way she could “benefit” from it. That’s how distraught she was. Poor young helpless immigrant, brutally attacked by a rich and powerful man.
Now in the feminist’s mind her credibility, her past actions, should have no bearing on the fact she claimed she was raped. All she should have to say is “I was raped.”, and her character is not permissible as evidence and can never be questioned. A woman could have a history of perpetually accusing men of being raped, and it would not be admissible in feminist court. It’s the Crucible redux. Hysterical man-hating feminists would line up at police headquarters across the land. Feminists refuse to admit false rape accusation happens, because at some point a man raped a woman and men must be punished. A woman would never dare lie about such a serious matter in their minds. The biggest problem with rape is that women can and do lie about it, all the time. Once they stop doing that perhaps we’ll can all begin addressing actual rape.
0
chewitup
Or even just after it happened? Investigators can go along way to proving sex happened. But how do you prove it was not consensual without an eyewitness, video or audio recording, a mind reading device or a seance? About the only edge the maid has over Banon is that the maid can point to where his fluids are.
About the only thing either women could have done to enhance their cases was to make sure DSK beat the mother loving crap out of them during the alleged attempted rapes. Like the maid could have bitten down on DSK during the oral sex. That would have stopped the sex act but then she could expect a nice dose of violent revenge. But even then, guess what? DSK would say the oral sex was consensual but she is a nut who bit his johnson, I mean just look at her past! And then he would eat the assault and battery charges but who would blame him after getting his willy bitten?
Its very difficult to prove rape in any case if the perpetrator has any sort of spine and brain, and that goes double if he has money and power. Look at Roman Polanksi. He drugged and anally raped a 13 year old girl after feeding her quaaludes, and in the end, all they were going to charge him for was intercourse with a minor!
-1
Cos
Well, the woman didn't simply wait 9 years. One less known point is she was a family friend of DSK and his first wife. She grew up and went to school with his daughters. It's a situation similar to kids raped by an uncle.
The delay to sue for rape is 10 years (or 10 years after the person is 18, in case of child victim) because the situation of victims is very difficult as theit immediate surrounding often condemns, even if the crime is proven and the criminal sent to jail. They can more safely sue a few years later, after leaving that family, changing of job and or city.
In this case, she went to see a lawyer the next day (she might have physical evidence, we don't know the file). And with her mother, they went to tell the execs of the PS party (to which both DSK and the mother belong) that they wanted to sue. From that it appears, nobody supported her but on the contrary they'd bully her if she went further. And she said she wanted to spare DSK's daughters that didn't know. She surely was naive about the last point.
" I would have had a bit more respect for her if she would have brought this up at the beginning of this case"
Where were you ? You should have expressed your support then. For the crowd, at that time, she'd have been a mythomane telling that story about a famous man, only to get a book publishing deal. I know women that sued important guys, and they had to move to another city after, as the "crowd" was against them, not against the guy, even after he was proved guilty. And most people say : "Yes, the guy is a playboy but precisely as it is known all around, the women that still went close to him, that must be that they wanted some, or they wanted to blackmail him...". People don't like victims. Just like here in Japan. Is it different in any country ?
But after he got his trouble with a Hungarian IMF staff and that was published in major media, DSK's problem became publicly discussed. He has more than the 3 current cases. So she told the story at that time.
Since the maid case, she has received more support. It's mostly because the attitude of PS Party leaders (covering their major politicians in any circumstances, defending Polanski, etc) has become exposed.
Now, of course, her lawyer chooses the more dramatic timing, she is considering her best interest. But well, why wouldn't he ?
-2
Cos
"Her book was about the failings of the most powerful men in politics... and you can't see how this sort of allegation might, just possibly, tie in to marketing her book? "
Her book was published 8 years ago. She said nothing back then.
"If she was angry enough to go on national television and denounce him on a TV show "
That was 5 years later, after she had published several other books... and after the guy had another similar issue reveal by media.
"then surely she was angry enough to walk down to the police station and file charges?"
It's possible that she did, but did not maintain her accusation later. That was not in New-York. In France, the files are not open to public (rarely cops let information leak). So we have to wait for the trial to know.
0
Triumvere
sfjp330,
You seem to be confused; we were talking about Mr. Banon. I was explaining why a genuine rape victim might not want to go through with the ordeal of a trial.
0
Triumvere
That should read "Ms. Bannon." Oops.
0
Triumvere
Or, "Ms. Banon"... double oops.
0
Madverts
Triumvere,
Thnaks for your reply.
"Now, none of this means her story is true. But I think it is entirely plausable."
Semi-plausible. I don't think any journalist worth his/her salt would have kept quiet, and the technology was there to attempt to prove the alleged incident at the time.....
"Now this, on the otherhand, is a very good question. How does one prove rape several decades after the fact?"
That's what I mean. The US case boils down to a his word against hers. Now we have a whole new similar case, with even less evidence. Whether the incident happened or not, the fact that she is now being sued by DSK for false accusation is a serious crime, and I have no doubt there is no proof of the incident nearly 10 years on.
Thanks for being able to actually look at the facts at hand. Heh, there are some strange individuals out there on JTdesperate to see this man guilty. More than likely he propbably is, but he can't be strung up without the proof being there. I wish some people could grasp this.
0
chewitup
I do not see anyone advocating he be strung up, nor do I see anyone advocating we forego the trial. So why do you persist with this sort of rhetoric?
I cannot even imagine what that is supposed to mean. Does it mean she would ignore the potential damage to her love life and her family ties and ignore her feelings as a human being and a woman, if only she were a journalist worth her salt? Probably one of the most bizarre statements I have read here at JT. Yeah, she was a journalist, but of the many kinds and levels, I am not sure what kind one has to be to not keep quiet about something so personal. Besides, she would just get the accusations of seeking ten minutes fame twice as much, and yes, I think that is what you would be saying rather than "This journalist must be worth her salt since she wasted no time telling the world".
I think you print out the post TriumvereJul. 06, 2011 - 06:14AM JST and frame it.
0
chewitup
Never happened. Never heard her described as being in a delicate state. No need for her to be so after an oral rape.
About the call, not a quote from her, but a quote from someone else who paraphrased: "she says words to the effect of, 'Don’t worry, this guy has a lot of money. I know what I’m doing'".
What does it mean? It could mean he is rich and powerful and therefore dangerous, but I think I can take him. Or it could mean he has the money to pay me my due for his transgressions against me. Or it could mean she expects a big payout for lying through her teeth.
They are all quite possible. But the people who see only one possibility have blinders on.
0
Madverts
" do not see anyone advocating he be strung up,"
It's called figuritive speach.
"I cannot even imagine what that is supposed to mean"
I'm not surprised. After your proposterous claims earlier on the oness of proof I can only conclude you have no idea what you're tlaking about, or your trolling.
1
Triumvere
Madverts,
My pleasure, sir. It is always nice to be able to discuss serious issues with reasonable people. Even (especially?) when there is a difference of opinion.
As I have stated before, I strongly suspect DSK to be guilty (and in both cases). However, that is not a standard of proof. There is still the matter of the physical evidence in the NY case, but I have trouble seeing how DSK could be convicted in either, given that the standard of proof required is "beyond a reasonable doubt" - just as it should be.
0
chewitup
Yes, I know. I don't see anyone figuratively advocating that. I don't see anyone floating a sentence at all. I see people who believe he is guilty. I see people who think the system might be a bit off with regards to this case. I don't see anyone fairly characterized as suggesting he be "strung up" in any sense of the word.
Unfortunately everyone's standard of what is reasonable seems to vary. I have not heard a verson of events from the DSK side at all, and that in itself I find unreasonable. If there is to be a reasonable doubt, I think the defense better start talking about something other than the maid's checkered past. In fact, the more it goes on the more I think they are petrified of the fact that they don't have a reasonable explanation to give us a reasonable doubt.
1
Madverts
"It is always nice to be able to discuss serious issues with reasonable people. Even (especially?) when there is a difference of opinion."
Especially, agreed.
"As I have stated before, I strongly suspect DSK to be guilty (and in both cases)."
Heh, more incredibly so do I! He was judged by the press immediately after the case - his position and more his nationality being too much for certain to be objective. And that is my beef with the case. I don't think a rich man who thinks he can do what he likes to the under-class be allowed to get away with it - but it's fair to say there is reasonable doubt, especially in light of recent developments on the accusers side. Cheers
0
goddog
I do not understand how forced oral sex can happen. The guy would be vulnerable to have his Mr. Weeny bit off badly, while at the same time having his two bells squeezed so hard that he would vomit.
Unless the girl is tied down or a gun to her head or a knife up against the throat, I cannot see it happening.
And even if a knife or gun is used, as we all well know, when climax is reached, everyone is vulnerable to attack.
I hope the woman wins the case. This guy is a disgrace to us males.
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