Syria strikes Damascus suburb; UN decries arms flow

World Jul. 03, 2012 - 06:09AM JST ( 25 )

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4

TamaramaJul. 03, 2012 - 08:07AM JST

Ruling a country is a position of service and is an incredible privelige. Men like Assad have no integrity and no right to rule countries the way they do, and Moscow and Beijing clearly show they have a long way to go before being mature, responsible global citizens. I hope he gets ttried for crimes against humanity.
-4

NeverSubmitJul. 03, 2012 - 09:08AM JST

The equivalent of the "Free Syrian Army" is the Hells Angels, or AUM in Japan or Al Qaeda. Just a bunch of unruly, outlaw hooligans. The only difference being that the Free Syrian Army is being actively supplied with military grade weapons and endless ammunition.

It's against international law to supply military arms to a non-state loose group of criminals. What if Russia supplied MS13 with machine guns and plastic explosives and told them to run mayhem in the streets of the US.

The US always cries foul if any state supplies the Hezbollah with arms but they have no problems when a similar terrorist group that's based in Syria gets weapons from foreign countries.

Stop the flow of all weapons, equipment and support and civility and stability will quickly be reestablished.
2

paulinusaJul. 03, 2012 - 09:18AM JST

"Stop the flow of all weapons, equipment and support and civility and stability will quickly be reestablished."

Yes, prop up the dictator Assad and all will be well.
2

Zen studentJul. 03, 2012 - 09:23AM JST

paulinusa, you read my mind. I doubt if Assad even knows the meaning of 'civility' anyway.

There is only one way you can deal with a dictator: take him out either economically or militarily. Because dictators are POWER JUNKIES and they will do ANYTHING to hold onto power.
2

TheQuestionJul. 03, 2012 - 09:45AM JST

Stop the flow of all weapons, equipment and support and civility and stability will quickly be reestablished.

Yes, it will finally be quiet once they kill all the noisy protesters. Such a bother.
3

TamaramaJul. 03, 2012 - 09:51AM JST

NeverSubmit

The equivalent of the "Free Syrian Army" is the Hells Angels, or AUM in Japan or Al Qaeda. Just a bunch of unruly, outlaw hooligans.

You'd better do your homework. They are made up of mostly defectors from the Syrian Army who object to killing civillians and they bring with them their weapons as well as the knowledge of where Assad's forces stockpile their own weapons. Your hyperbole is miles from the truth.
1

Christina O'NeillJul. 03, 2012 - 10:23AM JST

Asaad seems detemined to hang onto power at any cost. The cost is thousands of civilians , men women children dead or injured, their homes and commuities destroyed. He has attacked Turkish aircraft which may yet be his undoing. I just hope there is some way to resolve the situation quickly, to spare the further suffering of the population. ,
0

paulinusaJul. 03, 2012 - 12:39PM JST

It's always been the same old story, hang onto power to protect you, your family and your circle of friends(business and military) The only question is how many Syrians will Assad be willing to kill before he flees the country or dies.
-3

DentShopJul. 03, 2012 - 01:58PM JST

You'd better do your homework.

It is you who are mistaken Tam. The Syrian conflict it not about "freedom". Readers of The Guardian may believe that but you only need look beyond US rhetoric to get a clearer understanding of what is going on there.

The rebels get their weapons from Syrian stockpiles - how laughable. Where are their satellite communications, logistical support and fuel supplies coming from? Someone leave the gate open at the barracks? Come on.

This is all about the new Cold War between Russia and the West/Gulf States. Saudi Arabia is financing the rebels because Assad Sr/Jr have kept Sunni Islamists out of power for decades, the US must support Israel who are in favour of the destabilising of Irans main ally and Russia supports a secular Syrian regime, the same way America supports criminal regimes in the Gulf and Israel with its horrendous human rights record.
0

Herve Nmn L'EisaJul. 03, 2012 - 02:01PM JST

Syria's Assad has long had cozy relations with both major arms suppliers, not unlike Mubarek. End the meddling, and that includes direct arms supply and economic "aid".
2

TamaramaJul. 03, 2012 - 05:22PM JST

DentShop

Well, a little research shows that the Free Syria Army is commanded by Riad al-Asaad, a former Syrian Air Force Colonel and that it was founded by Army defectors who encouraged other defectors to join, of which 40,000 are estimated to have done so. And you might consider Wikipedia to be part of the conspiracy, but that's the information I'm going on for now. Do you have any evidence to support what you are suggesting, or is it just "common knowledge" we all should know?
0

DentShopJul. 03, 2012 - 11:37PM JST

Wikipedia is ok, but as my professor once said, "If you quote Wikipedia, you may as well quote your 14 year-old brother because he could have written it."

What is happening in Syria is incredibly complicated and it is not as simple as army defectors stealing government weapons and rising up against the oppressor. It is hard to discuss this situation with those who only follow the mainstream media because their reports are so far from what is actually happening on the ground. In fact to say the Western media is just plain wrong is closer to the truth.

Turkey is creating a very dangerous situation in Western Syria and is provoking Syria into a fight. The arms, logistical support, the training is coming through Turkey.

The New York Times has confirmed that the CIA is in Southern Turkey training Syrian militias within refugee camps.

The US Government openly states the Al-Queda operatives have joined the FSA, which is being financed by the US Government. What the hell??

The Assad government is far from guilt-free, his government is far better for the people of Syria than what is happening in Libya and Egypt. And is Assads government much worse than those of Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Israel - all of which the US Government support, rather than try to overthrow.

I wont paste any links, since JapanToday doesnt like that. Sounds like a cop-out and maybe it is.
1

MadvertsJul. 04, 2012 - 01:11AM JST

"The Assad government is far from guilt-free, his government is far better for the people of Syria than what is happening in Libya and Egypt"

How on earth can you tell that at this stage?
0

MadvertsJul. 04, 2012 - 01:13AM JST

It would seem Assad is blubbering apologies for shooting down that jet.
2

SuperLibJul. 04, 2012 - 02:54AM JST

DentShop: What is happening in Syria is incredibly complicated and it is not as simple as army defectors stealing government weapons and rising up against the oppressor. It is hard to discuss this situation with those who only follow the mainstream media because their reports are so far from what is actually happening on the ground. In fact to say the Western media is just plain wrong is closer to the truth.

Who cares what the "Western Media" reports. Right now the West is doing what it's always done, and that's trying to drag yet another ass-backwards country into the 21st century. It's the usual "We can't can't seem to sort our crap out, but until we manage to evolve, would you prefer the dictator, the theocracy, or the radical whatevers? We have all 3 here." Purges to the left, death squads to the right. Pick your poison.

It doesn't matter if it's Syria, Iran, North Korea, yadda yadda yadda. If it's not a liberal democracy supported by secularism and the rule of law, it's just a royal pain in the ass. Thankfully there are fewer left as time goes on, but this crap is getting old. So let the West do what it does and stop complaining.
0

NeverSubmitJul. 04, 2012 - 06:11AM JST

Dentshop, you're right on. The situation is very complex but the Western media portrays it as a simple minded Rebels= Heros and Syrians = Evil dialectic.

Unfortuantely, many people fall for it and it's impossible to have a rational dialogue with them because they're fallaciously confident since they read the daily blurb about Syria that's dished out by either Reuters or the AP.

The situation in Syria is far more complex then is presented in the Western press. The Syrian people are not an evil people as many posters seem to imply and the rebels are not some pious band of freedom fighters.
-2

DentShopJul. 04, 2012 - 09:15AM JST

trying to drag yet another ass-backwards country into the 21st century

Not sure whether you are being sarcastic or not. In Syrias case, the nation is a secular, socialist state that has taken in millions of refugees from the Wests previous fix-it jobs and the government has rejected neo-liberal policies that would have exploited rural Syria. If it accepted the "help" of the West it would end up with religious extremists in charge.

So let the West do what it does and stop complaining.

Again, surely you are being sarcastic or were drunk when you wrote this. Show me cases of where the West has succeeded in doing what it does. Oh and dont worry, I will complain as much as I like. However I do prefer rational debate rather than dorm-room politics.
2

SuperLibJul. 04, 2012 - 12:48PM JST

Dent, are you saying Syria resembles a liberal democracy?

The choice is "dictator or extremists" if Syria is left up to their own devices. Which is your personal favorite? With the West involved at least there is a chance for a 3rd option.
-2

DentShopJul. 04, 2012 - 01:25PM JST

Dent, are you saying Syria resembles a liberal democracy?

Nope.

What I am saying is that Syria should be left to decide its own future rather than other nations interfering and trying to force another way of life onto it. The US and Israel are allowing Assad no option for talks. The only option allowed for him is exile or death. This doesnt sound very democratic at all.
1

SuperLibJul. 04, 2012 - 02:28PM JST

Exile or death? Sounds about right to me. He and his family had their fun, done some good killing recently, but his time is over. Without support from outside nations the democratic transition often fails since no one knows what to do except what they've always done, at which point the new leaders turn into the old leaders. The "hands off" approach will produce one of two results in Syria: 1). Assad is going to kill a ton of people or 2) Assad will be killed by rebels, then the inevitable purge begins which kills a ton of people and leaves radicals in charge. If you see a different outcome, please let me know.
-2

NeverSubmitJul. 04, 2012 - 03:56PM JST

Superlib: Have you been to Syria? Why do say it's a backward country. It was one of the most developed and stable countries in the region prior to being invaded by Turkey-based rebels.

If the flow of weapons and support to the Turkey-based rebels stop then Syria will quickly normalize into the stable country it was prior to this Western instigated insurgency.

No doubt that rebel soldiers with blood on their hands will face arrest and charges but that is price they pay for killing Syrian civilians.

At least the rebel soldiers won't have to worry about being sent to Gitmo. Perhaps as a terrorist, they'd be better off being arrested by Syrian police than by American ones.
1

TamaramaJul. 04, 2012 - 06:18PM JST

Dentshop

OK, well you have shifted the focus of your comment there, but that's fine. I have no doubt it's a complicated situation. It's been a very complex situation in that region for most of it's history, but certainly since the Ottoman Empire dissolved at the end of WWI. No one is disputing this. And countries like the United States have a very long history of meddling in, and manipulating the affairs of State in this part of the world. It's very well documented by authorities on the subject such as Robert Fisk, in his tome 'The Great War for Civilization: The conquest of the Middle East' which I have in my hands as I type this (he isn't my 14 year old brother). But whilst you are making some claims that are feasible;

The New York Times has confirmed that the CIA is in Southern Turkey training Syrian militias within refugee camps.

You do need to provide some credible links to where you are getting your information. Otherwise, as you know, it's really of no use.

The Assad government is far from guilt-free, his government is far better for the people of Syria than what is happening in Libya and Egypt.

Perhaps their biggest claim to fame is that they are one of the very few - possibly the only Middle Eastern countries to have completely crushed fundamentalism. But secular Baathism isn't democracy and this is what the people of Syria are unhappy about. And once you start killing so many of your oponents, particularly seeing they are NOT Muslim Brotherhood this time around, you have a big problem. It seems the people of Syria disagree with the basic premise of what you have said. Oh and by the way, I've been to Syria. I spent a couple of weeks there in 1998. I loved it. I found the people to be extremely engaging, extremely hospitable and very open to political dicussion - in fact quite a few openly instigated it. They are a people who are politically awake in a part of the world that has to be one of the most political on the planet. Damascus is a fantastic city.
0

MadvertsJul. 04, 2012 - 08:21PM JST

"If the flow of weapons and support to the Turkey-based rebels"

Whoa....wait a minute. Blackwater backed. US backed. Nato backed. Now Turkey....

You've taken the step from a bizarre devil's advocate to ludicrous....seriously, you're sounding like David Icke again.
0

DentShopJul. 04, 2012 - 09:37PM JST

You do need to provide some credible links to where you are getting your information. Otherwise, as you know, it's really of no use.

No links. I will say though that the article was published June 21st in The New York Times.
0

SuperLibJul. 05, 2012 - 01:49AM JST

NeverSubmit: Have you been to Syria?

No, but I hear it's lovely this time of year.

The fact is that Assad is an authoritarian ruler and his rule is coming to an end, and the world will be better for it as long as the West to can help the transition to make sure the radials don't take over. One less problem for the world to worry about. Your hyper obsession with the concept of Western intervention has put you in a position where you'll hop into bed with a man like Assad, and that's just sad. The only good news is that it will all be in vain.