Syrian troops push into Aleppo to oust rebels

World Aug. 09, 2012 - 07:10AM JST ( 11 )

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NeverSubmitAug. 09, 2012 - 09:54AM JST

The responsibility of the civilian deaths in Aleppo is borne on the shoulders of the despicable militants who chose the tactic of using human shields while engaging in armed combat. Have they no honor?

The fact that the Aleppo was liberated slowly and with civilian casualties counting in the tens it's clear that the Syrian Army took deliberate precautions to minimize civilian casualties.

Had the Syrian army actually carried out it's supposed "massacre" as Hillary had said they would then the city of 3 million would see casualties in the tens if not hundreds of thousands. In reality the reported amounts even by anti-Syrian groups are lesson then 1/100th that amount. In fact this article only refers to 6 people that died in a city of 3 million. It's said and unfair for that family but it's not a massacre and it's the fault of the rebels.

Rebels claimed the men are military personnel, including some members of Iran’s powerful Revolutionary Guard

"Some", Well how many? Is it all or a few? Why the vagueness here. The only number I ever read was that one old gentlemen in the group had a military ID. Why not release clear pictures of these supposed "military men". The pictures I've seen look like regular people and mostly old grandpas. Regardless, as non-combatants, the Islamic rebels have no right to kidnap them based on a premise.
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jomonjeulmunAug. 09, 2012 - 09:10PM JST

Many of the "rebels" aren't even Syrian. Two weeks ago Oerlemans, a famous Dutch photo journalist, and John Cantlie, another photographer from the UK, were captured by one of these so called rebel groups. These "rebels" were crossing into Syria from Turkey. Here's what Oerlemans told NRC Handelsblatt newspaper:

"One of the black jihadists freaked out and shouted: 'These are journalists and now they will see we are preparing an international jihad in this place.'" He said that none of the fighters was Syrian. They all claimed they came from countries like Pakistan and Bangladesh and Chechnya and they said there was some vague 'emir' at the head of the group." About 40 per cent of the militants spoke English. In fact, several apparently talked with recognizable regional British accents, from Birmingham and London.

In other words, these rebels are just paid mercenaries and the only thing they're fighting for is money. It's a good bet that even the ones that claim to be Jihadist would demand to be paid when the fighting ends, that is if they live long enough to collect their payment.
0

MadvertsAug. 09, 2012 - 09:44PM JST

"In other words, these rebels are just paid mercenaries and the only thing they're fighting for is money. "

Yup, one report is enough for me.

I mean, Syrians are cheering on their army in Aleppo. I read it on the NSNN.
1

TheQuestionAug. 09, 2012 - 10:03PM JST

The responsibility of the civilian deaths in Aleppo is borne on the shoulders of the despicable militants who chose the tactic of using human shields while engaging in armed combat. Have they no honor?

The fact that the Aleppo was liberated slowly and with civilian casualties counting in the tens it's clear that the Syrian Army took deliberate precautions to minimize civilian casualties.

You just refuted your own statement there friend. How could the rebel's be making liberal use of human shields while engaged in firefights that result in low civilian casualties? The fact of the matter is that large swaths of the city have been evacuated and those that remain behind are pretty much staying boarded up in their homes. So your whole 'human shield' argument is pretty much full of hot air.

"Some", Well how many? Is it all or a few? Why the vagueness here. The only number I ever read was that one old gentlemen in the group had a military ID. Why not release clear pictures of these supposed "military men". The pictures I've seen look like regular people and mostly old grandpas. Regardless, as non-combatants, the Islamic rebels have no right to kidnap them based on a premise.

In one breath you raise a question in the next you make an assumption and then an accusation. You're all over the place today.

Shouldn't you be the least bit concerned about even the remote possibility that Iran is sending foreign fighters into the area? I highly doubt these people were anything more than pilgrims but considering you've been shouting mercenary at every bush and rock over the past few months I'd expect you to find the prospect a bit disturbing. But that would require consistancy.

In other words, these rebels are just paid mercenaries and the only thing they're fighting for is money. It's a good bet that even the ones that claim to be Jihadist would demand to be paid when the fighting ends, that is if they live long enough to collect their payment.

Apparently you don't know much about PMC's or you'd know that the only English speaking country that allows combat ready contractors is the US, they're illegal in the rest of the west. And if there were US PMC's operating in Syria the war would look completely different. However, given the cost associated with these groups and the fact they use some of the best military equipment on the planet I'm almost certain there are no high end private interests on the ground in Syria at this point.

As for the ability to speak english...you do know that a lot of people in the middle east seek higher education abroad right? Most of Assad's family has been educated in the UK and whenever I've been to London I see a lot of middle eastern exchange students. I where you're getting the 40% number from but I think it would be reasonable that a reasonable number of rebels from more affluent families may have western educations.
1

lucabrasiAug. 09, 2012 - 10:11PM JST

"One of the black jihadists freaked out and shouted: 'These are journalists and now they will see we are preparing an international jihad in this place.'"

Even allowing for poor translation, this just doesn't sound right. It's like a line out of a kids' comic, inserted to make sure all the less intelligent readers understand what's going on.

Not buying it.
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jomonjeulmunAug. 09, 2012 - 10:47PM JST

Apparently you don't know much about PMC's or you'd know that the only English speaking country that allows combat ready contractors is the US, they're illegal in the rest of the west. And if there were US PMC's operating in Syria the war would look completely different.

I never stated that US contractors like Academi (previously known as Xe Services and Blackwater) or DynCorp were operating inside Syria, although I wouldn't rule it out. But the fact remains that a large portion of the rebels fighting against the Assad regime are not Syrian. Here's an excerpt from a NY Times article claiming members of Al Qaeda are now operating inside Syria.

The evidence is mounting that Syria has become a magnet for Sunni extremists, including those operating under the banner of Al Qaeda. An important border crossing with Turkey that fell into Syrian rebels' hands last week, Bab al-Hawa, has quickly become a jihadist congregating point.
1

TheQuestionAug. 09, 2012 - 11:08PM JST

I never stated that US contractors like Academi (previously known as Xe Services and Blackwater) or DynCorp were operating inside Syria, although I wouldn't rule it out.

But you heavily implied it and now you're backpeddling. People throw around the term mercenary like it's a regular thing, that there are contractors all over the place, well there's not. There are very few places in the world that you can find organized, well trained units. And as I've stated, if these groups were involved in Syria the war would already be over.

But the fact remains that a large portion of the rebels fighting against the Assad regime are not Syrian. Here's an excerpt from a NY Times article claiming members of Al Qaeda are now operating inside Syria.

The fact does not remain. Without any quantitative evidence your assersion is based entierly on your own opinion. I have not refuted that there are Al Qaeda members inside Syria at this point. Flies to the carcass and what not. But the continued assumption made by posters on this site that a majority of the Syrian rebels are foreigners is virtually impossible to substantiate.

The simplest answer is typically the correct one and all these conspiracies about foreign mercenaries, and hordes of foreign fighters, and whatever other nonsense has come out en the past several months just doesn't jive.
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jomonjeulmunAug. 09, 2012 - 11:38PM JST

But you heavily implied it and now you're backpeddling.

How would I imply that when I quoted that "they all claimed they came from countries like Pakistan and Bangladesh and Chechnya." Most US contractors are former US military. If they come from Pakistan and Bangladesh and Chechnya then it doesn't imply US contractors. It just implies that there are foreigners from those countries fighting against Assad, many of them for money.

Here's an excerpt from a Reuters article stating that the opposite occurs as well, foreigners bringing wads of cash and recruiting Syrians:

It's little surprise then that battle-hardened fighters from abroad, with wads of cash from the Gulf, appeal to rebels. One opposition activist said that groups like Ahrar al-Sham get money from Gulf Islamists in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. "In a period of several months when I was checking, they sent about 3 million Kuwaiti dinars ($10.6 million) to hardliners like them," he said, requesting anonymity... "We're getting so many guests from the Gulf now, and Islamists from Europe too. Sometimes groups as big as 25 people. And if they get chatty they tell me all about the money they're sending in. One guy told me he alone brought more than $100,000," said a hotel employee who also asked not to be named.
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NeverSubmitAug. 10, 2012 - 05:46AM JST

A few months ago it was flatly denied in all corners that the rebels were receiving foreign aid and assistance. Now the fact that the rebels are based in Turkey, receive massive funding from Islamic regimes in Bahrain and Saudi Arabia and receive equipment from NATO is openly published.

It's hasn't been fully explained where the rebels receive their cache of weapons, including anti-aircraft rockets (that aren't even in the Syrian arsenal).

The idea that the rebels are a bunch of disgruntled neighborhood fathers complaining about high taxes who spontaneously cobbled together a semi-professional army overnight is a farsical idea.

The rebels are a mash of mercenaries and jihadists who have been dumped into Syria at the behest of NATO and NATO allies Saudi Arabia, in order to destabilize the country so in can be softened for invasion.
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MadvertsAug. 10, 2012 - 06:14AM JST

Has any substantiating word come through on the Blackberry mercenaries? The French? The Lizards? The NSNN seems pretty quiet on it's past allegations.....
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TheQuestionAug. 10, 2012 - 07:06AM JST

A few months ago it was flatly denied in all corners that the rebels were receiving foreign aid and assistance. Now the fact that the rebels are based in Turkey, receive massive funding from Islamic regimes in Bahrain and Saudi Arabia and receive equipment from NATO is openly published.

No it wasn't. I and many others on this site have openly stated that western nations are likely supplying weapons and intelligence. What I do not believe are your claims that this is not a Syrian uprising led, and comprision of, Syrians that have been targeted by the Syrian government.

The idea that the rebels are a bunch of disgruntled neighborhood fathers complaining about high taxes who spontaneously cobbled together a semi-professional army overnight is a farsical idea.

It's been months and while they have made some strides the Syrian rebels lack any real widespread organization. Additionally a large chunck of the rebels are made up of Syrian defectors including high level officers. Such defections have been reported by both western media sources and by internal Syrian sources, although Syrian media typically makes it sound like the individuals were fired. Because, you know, it makes sense to fire a whole bunch of senior staff during a civil war.