Thai airports reopen after PM ousted by court

Wednesday 03rd December, 04:40 PM JST

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sickearth at 10:35 AM JST - 3rd December
sorry the top statement was mess-up!!

the protesters literally don't consider it Democracy unless their party wins. <

do you know what party they're supporting? from what i know they do not have a party. they see that all political party in thailand today are corrupted even.

What they're asking for is the appointment of legislators, rather than Democratic election. <

yeah that is what they are asking for, but not demanding to have it. their demand is a system with less to no corruption. and that is not only the PDA's demand. people all over the country who disagree with the way PDA is/was doing also agree in principle that thailand need a better and cleaner system. people has been talking about this since i can remember a thing!

Funny how they didn't ask for it before the election results.<

dead wrong, they talk about this long before the military step their uninvited dirty feet in! long before the last election!

and about the vote buying, thais know and talk about this since.... 30,40,50... year ago. people said thais need to get rid of this vote buying thing, and they were trying to do it via education. but then taksin came in, and he changed all of that. he develop the vote buying fashion and the way corruption work to a next level.

those irresponsible enough to offer and accept the money think that it is common, and many of them even said it is the way to develop the country. people up north accept corruption as a way it have to be.(this idea is almost everywhere on thai web board.)
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perhaps this is also the same way your country develop democracy!
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Wait til the next PM shows up, same story, same scenario. Ridiculous.<

people has been saying on the news and in many place, they promise to come back if no thing change to eliminate the same fake democracy where money can by everything and corruption are the way to develop the country idea as thailand has been using for many many years.

Thai democracy: RIP< make sure, if the country ever had it! and since taksin came, he doom so many people hope to see a real working democracy in thailand.
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make sure you understand what is democracy, 
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and what the system thailand is using now!
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democracy doesn't meant only election.
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smithinjapan at 11:02 AM JST - 3rd December

sidwarwick: "The mob have spoken. The people spoke in the election."

You ever hear of election-rigging? It happens, and happened hear after the last PM was sacked... who happened, curiously enough, to be this one's brother-in-law. The 'people' didn't speak during the election; money did. The people spoke DIRECTLY in this instance, and their voices were finally heard. Period.
rjd_jr at 11:19 AM JST - 3rd December

Funny how a small percentage of the entire Thai population, the PAD protestors, somehow represent "the people." The very same "people" that think rural Thais are too uneducated and basically too stupid to make their own judgements and cast their own votes. The very same "people" that violate all international norms of what non violent and peaceful demonstrations and protests are about, threatening people, invading property and causing destruction and mayhem, none more so than their fellow Thais who depend on tourism income.

A look at the U.S. presidential election, just to name one small example out of countless many across the globe, shows that big money equals big votes. Obama's money making machine put McCain's campaign to shame. My point being, accusations of vote buying and rigging are not as cut and dry as people make it out to be.
nimbus at 12:13 PM JST - 3rd December

Have you ever wonder why the richest man in Thailand has the support of the rural poor and it is the rich and powerful people of Bangkok who wanted to get rid of him?

Before Thaksin became prime minister, all the wealth and development in Thailand were concentrated in Bangkok with the exception of a few places like Chiangmai and Phuket. The people of Bangkok, especially the middle to upper classes, benefited the most from this. After Thaksin became prime minister he started a number of social programs, like the village funds, 30 baht (less than one U.S. dollar) medical program, etc, which really benefited the lower economic segments of Thai society. Because of Thaksin the poor uneducated rural farmer could afford to see a doctor and the poor village could afford to buy farming equipment to help increase their income. These programs were of course not popular with the middlde - upper classes of Bangkok, as they saw them as a drain on their share of the pie. Thaksin won two elections by landslide supported mostly by the people outside of Bangkok. Vote buying or not, he does have majority support outside of Bangkok.
sickearth at 12:18 PM JST - 3rd December
The very same "people" that think rural Thais are too uneducated and basically too stupid to make their own judgements and cast their own votes.<

again, this is not about "rural" Vs "urban".

it is about

who think corruption and benefit from corruption are bad for the country

and

who thing the other way around are the way to go for a democratic a state. it is also not only bkk resident protesting and waring yellow!

so you keep saying rural, it is not truth.
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and blaming them for all the violence is very biased.
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yes, they are not so peaceful demonstrator, and they invading property.

but most of the time destruction go to the Yellow PDA. it was not coming from them

they are the only one got multiple hand granated to dead.

A look at the U.S. presidential election, just to name one small example out of countless many across the globe, shows that big money equals big votes.<

obama try to put money directly in to american voter hands?

bush try to protect his business empire, and make us$1.88 billion without paying taxes as taksin done?

if any american' president have done that, do American people still support him, and think that corruption is the way it has to be for developing America?

that is the difference.
sickearth at 12:59 PM JST - 3rd December

Before Thaksin became prime minister, all the wealth and development in Thailand were concentrated in Bangkok .... The people of Bangkok, especially the middle to upper classes, benefited the most from this.

don't forget to say that another group benefit even more than middle call in bkk are the local mafia who pay a big chunk of money before the election. when they got their sit, they also take it back plush many time of interest.

After Thaksin became prime minister he started a number of social programs, like the village funds, 30 baht

wrong! he give a million baht funs to every village. it free to us on anything thing, and un-uncheckable.

and

that 30baht thing is the 30baht health care, which no one say that it bad in principle. but! "all" of the medication material been brought from taksin or his family related company! they won all the bidding from goverment. surprise?

Thaksin won two elections by landslide supported mostly by the people outside of Bangkok.

another big NO.

first election his party also got a lot of support from BKK people. he got out of his first tax fraud case during his fist 6 months by the help of bkk people who hoped that he would be the next big thing to help country's democracy!!! (i strongly disagree with BKK people at that time.)

second victory he got from people only in the north and northeast

by buying many representative house member from most of smaller party in the country.

people in bangkok and south started to see something wrong with the way this guy manage country's money.
rjd_jr at 01:41 PM JST - 3rd December

Excellent point Nimbus. This is really about social class and elitism, not about corruption and the like. Sickearth can put his spin on it, with all due respect, but all the sugar coating does not hide the obvious. Which is the 'social elites' sense of superiority over the rural class. Even my Thai/Laotian friends tell me of this prejudice the 'bangkokians' have over the 'farmers' from the northeast (esarn).

The PAD and their followers have never given a fair or satisfactory explanation of exactly how they propose to make the government fair. Again, they think the rural class are too dumb to make their own voting choices.
sickearth at 02:13 PM JST - 3rd December

some people like to see only haft the truth and whatever support their own idea, i can't help!

we got so many of this people in thailand already, and it proof hard to change them even we present the real truthful information!

i do not spinning any point but only you keep say the same thing the same point inwhich you yourself can not even proof how corruption can be good for a country and democracy. whit something like

they think the rural class are too dumb to make their own voting choices.

which in fact it is

who think corruption and benefit from corruption are bad for the country

and

who thing the other way around are the way to go for a democratic a state.

and if you really see the news with open eyes and open mind, you will see that it is not only the rich waring yellow and all the rural waring red.

to be fair ask southern Thai/ chinese thai / indian thai / muslim thai / westerner like but still thai / eastern thai too

do not just get one person one idea and think that everyone is going to be that way. after all this is the idea of democracy as many like to refer too but hardly practice in its right direction!
tclh at 03:00 PM JST - 3rd December

Anti government protesters really put the constitutional court under immense pressure to give a verdict in their favour, hence this is a problem. Now the country is deeply divided between two opposite political forces (for and against the elected government) which will lead to even bigger unrest ...I agree that democracy is lost in Thailand, hooligans rule the country.
sickearth at 03:58 PM JST - 3rd December

tclh i have to agree with you that

hooligans rule the country.

one thing i need to give some more info. if this was something happen during taksin as a PM. he would just buy the hold court as he had done before with every case connect to his family business.

even recently, he tried that with one of his case, but he is not in the power, so the story went to newspapers quick and his lawyer was jailed for that. i am not sure for how long. taksin was in UK at the time.

that anger a lot of people in the country agree or disagree with PDA.
JeffLee at 05:07 PM JST - 3rd December

The spoiled little brats got their way - again.
tigris at 11:16 PM JST - 3rd December

Nimbus, What you write above is accurate but there is more...

Thaksin was a populist and divider using the south-north, social, historical and ethnic gaps in Thai society for his own greedy ends. Not only did he manage to multiply the family fortune in a real short time while being prime minister, but 3 years ago the Thaksin family sold their entire stake in Shin Corporation to a Singapore based holding company for a cool US$1.88 billion. - Tax-free - using a loophole in Thai law that made individuals who sell shares exempt from capital gains tax. This vulgar display of corruption and power ignited the polarization of Thai society and escalated over the years to what we have now.

That he also harassed the press, tried to mess with the Thai constitution, put family members in key positions during his reign and got rid of anything or anybody opposing him just on the side.

That said, I found the closure of the airport(s) by the PAD totally inappropriate. But the situation for foreigners and tourists never was as "threatening" as described by the lurid fantasies of people who have not been there. There was no terror and no fear - only the fear to miss the few available flights. It was an annoyance - there was no panic at the airport last Wednesday before everybody was evacuated from the terminal to hotels in Bangkok. About half of the protesters were middle aged housewives, food and drink was (finally, morning about 9 AM) distributed free, even the toilet rolls were (reportedly) regularly exchanged. Then came the kids, the pets, the mattress and food sellers. Hardly threatening. If you hadn't seen the heavily armed barricades at the front lines in the news you would not realize that this was a rebellion.

A last note: I have no pity with tourists who give a wet towel about what's going on behind the beach or outside the bar. It is about time some people realize, that there is a country attached to the resort, with poverty and social problems and upheaval. A cursory google search should have brought up enough information to be concerned - last month the PAD closed Phuket's international airport and the social conflict is escalating into violence since months.
nimbus at 06:18 AM JST - 4th December

tigris

I have many Thai friends in and outside of Thailand, from Bangkok and outside of Bangkok, some for and some against Thaksin so I am well aware of a lot of the things Thaksin has done and I am not saying he is a selfless saint. You are correct that Thaksin via his children and Ample Rich (an off shore holding company set up in 1999) sold Shin Corp to Temasek (a company affiliated with the Singapore government) for close to US$1.9 billion in January 2006. Note that Thaksin was not elected to PM until 2001 so this whole set up started two years before Thaksin became the PM. The transaction was tax free because of tax loopholes in the Thai tax codes. I don’t see how using a legal tax loophole to reduce your taxes is a “vulgar display of corruption”. It would be interesting to know if there are any other Thais who have used this same tax loophole to avoid paying taxes. The current corruption charges against Thaksin are about the sale of a piece of property by the government to Thaksin’s wife at below fair market value while Thaksin was still the PM and not about the sale of Shin Corp.

My main concern is the real agenda of PAD. The mobs in yellow shirts are just pawns. The smoke screens are for democracy and anti-government corruption, but the real objective is for a small, rich and powerful group of people to take control of the country. If this happens, the government could become even more corrupt and the country worse off.
JeffLee at 08:05 AM JST - 4th December

Tigris Thaksin sold the satellite firm to avoid conflict of interest in his role as prime minister. If he were to hold on to it while running the country, the accusations of corruption would be even shriller.

Yes, he sold it at a profit, which is what sucessful business people tend to do. Using "a loophole" is not illegal. Legimate corporate lawyers build their careers on finding loopholes for their legitimate clients.
tigris at 09:43 AM JST - 4th December

A successful business man exploiding tax loopholes - to be expected. But I would also expect from a successful prime minister in a mature democracy to close tax loopholes and not exploid them. To serve the country's interest and not run it as a family enterprise.