Turkish PM defends Gaza outburst
ANKARA —
Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan stood firm Friday on his outburst at a heated debate with Israel’s president, as the Jewish state sought to calm tempers saying bilateral ties would recover.
Erdogan received a hero’s welcome on his return to Istanbul and the Palestinian Hamas movement hailed his “courageous stand” after storming out of the debate on the Gaza war at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.
“We will never allow anyone to show disrespect to the prime minister of Turkey,” Erdogan told a cheering crowd as he returned home following his clash with Israeli President Shimon Peres.
He slammed the hundreds of civilian deaths in Hamas-ruled Gaza during Israel’s recent 22-day offensive, but said his anger was directed not at the Jewish people, rather “the practices of the Israeli government.
“The death of civilians cannot be seen as a simple work accident,” Erdogan said.
In Ankara, Israeli ambassador Gaby Levy sought to defuse tensions, saying he is confident relations between the two “closest and… friendliest countries” will recover “within a period of time.”
Turkey and Israel have overcome other spats in the past because their ties “are solidly based… on strategic interests,” Levy told reporters.
“It is in the interest of both countries to start trying to calm down and move forward,” he said.
The influential Turkish army, which has a series of cooperation accords with the Israeli military, stressed “national interests” in signalling that close relations would continue.
Erdogan said Turkey is determined to pursue peace efforts in the Middle East, while officials announced that Palestinian leader Mahmud Abbas will visit Ankara next week to discuss “all aspects of the Palestinian problem, including efforts to secure unity among Palestinian groups.”
Before he marched off the stage in front of Peres and U.N. chief Ban Ki-moon, Erdogan said Israel committed “barbarian” acts in Gaza, lashed out at the audience for applauding Peres’ emotional defense of the war and vowed he would never return to Davos.
Erdogan’s gesture made headlines across Europe and the Middle East, although a spokesman said his move was directed not at Peres but at the moderator of the debate, who interrupted his speech.
Turkey is one of Israel’s rare allies in the Muslim world but Erdogan has been a fierce critic of the Jewish state’s military onslaught on Gaza that left more than 1,300 Palestinians dead.
Peres, a Nobel peace prize winner, defended the offensive, saying Israel had no other choice to stop Hamas rocket attacks—adding, with his finger pointing, that Erdogan would have done the same if rockets fell on Istanbul every night.
“Hamas pays tribute to the courageous stand of Turkey’s prime minister… who in Davos directly defended the victims of the criminal Zionist war against our children and women in Gaza,” Hamas spokesman Fawzi Barhum said Friday.
“We consider his departure from the room an expression of support for the victims of the Holocaust carried out by the Zionists,” he said in a statement.
Senior Hamas leader Khalil al-Hayya also showered Erdogan with praise and compared him to Sultan Mehmed II who conquered Constantinople in 1453, bringing an end to the Byzantine Empire.
“From Gaza the victorious, we stand at your side and alongside Turkey,” he said. “You remind us of the glorious position of our Ottoman ancestors,” Hayya told a rally in Gaza City, during his first public appearance since the end of Israel’s offensive on Gaza.
“Yesterday, you rose up in the esteem of all free (persons) in this world,” wrote Lebanon’s parliamentary speaker Nabih Berri in a letter to Erdogan, cited by the country’s official news agency ANI.
Despite the hero’s welcome from his supporters, the Turkish opposition and foreign policy experts harshly criticized Erdogan’s outburst.
“Mr Erdogan has ruined Turkey’s international prestige. Supporting the Palestinian cause is one thing, but supporting Hamas is something else,” said Onur Oymen, deputy chairman of the main opposition CHP party.
“Mr Erdogan acted like a spokesman for an organization that is classified as terrorist,” he said.
Wire reports
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nanotechnology
Perez is right of saying that that
.
I remember that a decade ago, one of our neighbors was using sling shot to rain down stones on our galvanized-iron roof in retaliation to the fight with my brother. They were teenagers at that time. When it was happening almost everyday, we warned the whole family that the next time stone drop on our roof and we actually see where it came from, we will retaliate accordingly.
The next night when we saw someone was using sling raining down again our roof, although it was a little bit dark, we fired several shots to that direction using just BLANK BULLETS, and since then no more stones raining down on our roof.
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skipthesong
When it was happening almost everyday, we warned the whole family that the next time stone drop on our roof and we actually see where it came from, we will retaliate accordingly." And you were completely correct to do so.
I told me cousin's boyfriend/father of her kid, if he were to hit her one more time, he'd suffice... he did and to this day, he has a tattoo on his left cheek that reads something that I can't say here.
Anyway, Wasn't this the same person who defended Turkey's genocide against Armininians (or one of those un-spellable peoples)
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smithinjapan
"He slammed the hundreds of civilian deaths in Hamas-ruled Gaza during Israel’s recent 22-day offensive, but said his anger was directed not at the Jewish people, rather “the practices of the Israeli government."
It's a good thing he qualified his stance -- there are more than a few fools on here who think if you don't support the wholesale slaughter of Palestinian civilians then you are automatically against all Jews and basically support another holocaust. It's a shame it has to be spelled out, but it's good that the man made it clear for the naysayers.
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smithinjapan
nanotech: "The next night when we saw someone was using sling raining down again our roof, although it was a little bit dark, we fired several shots to that direction using just BLANK BULLETS, and since then no more stones raining down on our roof."
Wow, what a man you are! You fought 'terror' with 'terror', and actually had the gall to think you were justified in pointing a gun (loaded with real bullets or not) at someone and pull the trigger... and threatening a whole family, no less. I notice you also pointed out that this was a result of a fight with your brother... or in other words, that's what instigated the whole thing.
In my opinion, while what they did was just plain stupid, it was harmless, while what you did -- pointing a gun and firing -- was criminal. Yeah, that sounds about akin to what happened in Gaza, alright. Of course, if said family were outdoors at the time and you pointed the gun at the mom and little girl, perhaps, it would have been more akin to what the Israeli government had troops do; oh, and you can say it was the boys' fault for hiding behind the family!
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wuzzademcrat
"It's a good thing he qualified his stance -- there are more than a few fools on here who think if you don't support the wholesale slaughter of Palestinian civilians then you are automatically against all Jews and basically support another holocaust."
LOL. That reads like writer actually believes the prime minister of Turkey is directly addressing, on the writer's behalf, the people here who disagree with him and defeat his arguments.
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bebert
Yes, because rockets fired into Istanbul might actually kill a large number of people and pose a legitimate threat. A month's worth of drunk driving deaths in Tel Aviv probably exceeds the entire death toll from rockets fired from Gaza.
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sailwind
bebert
The Israeli's have 15 seconds to reach shelter before the missle hits. The announcement is hebrew for 'Code Red'.
You don't think after watching the video the rockets aren't a legitimate threat?
Imagine the carnage if they didn't have the warning first.
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=VU-ljpXoyUQ
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smithinjapan
wuzzademcrat: "That reads like writer actually believes the prime minister of Turkey is directly addressing, on the writer's behalf, the people here who disagree with him and defeat his arguments."
It would read like that, except you are the last person on whose behalf the Turkish PM would address others. :) (sorry... a bit of a sarge moment).
Anyway, what I said is true, and to you in particular. YOu are so one-sided in your thinking that my disagreeing with Israel's policies leads you to believe I am pro-Hamas -- you've said it before. I am 100% against Hamas, but I am not at all for Israel's use of excessive force. Really screws with YOUR head, no doesn't it? The Turkish PM is also against the Israeli government's overreaction, but he has clearly stated that he is not against the Jewish people -- and as I said, he NEEDS to clarify that for people like you.
There, I further clarified it for you. Perhaps they'll make a 'Gaza for Dummies' book you can pick up.
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skipthesong
there are more than a few fools on here who think if you don't support the wholesale slaughter of Palestinian civilians then you are automatically against all Jews and basically support another holocaust."
smith, that is not fair assessment. The Muslims have billions of miles of land to live on, the Jews have a tiny spot. Not recognizing the state of Israel is due to one thing and that is the hatred for the Jews. That is why Egypt and other Arab/Muslim countries have been free of any type of Palestinian complaints. But for the next door Jew, oh no, we can't have that now can we? You can say they are against the Zionist and Zionist only but that movement numbers is small and does not represent all Jews living in Israel.
Why don't we start the thread concentrating on what Turkey has done to many other peoples living next door to them.... The guy is a hypocrite, and I'll extend that to a great many Turks as he was hailed as a hero.
Perhaps they'll make a 'Gaza for Dummies' book you can pick up." Don't, as I find you, sadly, very biased in this conflict.
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smithinjapan
Skip: "smith, that is not fair assessment."
It may not be fair, but it's true. There are countless posts by said people over the Israel/Gaza threads where those who support Israel have stated people who disagree with them therefore support Hamas. Even yesterday when I defended Erdogen's comments and his storming off stage was 'funny coming from Hamas supporters' (paraphrased).
"smith, that is not fair assessment. The Muslims have billions of miles of land to live on, the Jews have a tiny spot."
Skip, you're misdirecting. Where on earth did I talk about Muslims in general in relation to the size of Israel?! YOu even quoted me as saying PALESTINIAN CIVILIANS, and correct me if I'm wrong, but they live in a much smaller, more confined space, than the Jews in Israel. You want to bring the size of Turkey into the argument as well? fine, but keep in mind we are talking about Israel and Palestinians, and the Turkish PMs berating of Israel for it's actions, not about your problem with Muslims in general.
"Not recognizing the state of Israel is due to one thing and that is the hatred for the Jews."
Again, complete and total misdirection. Where did I say I don't recognize Israel?! I DO and have said so about a million times. What's more, Erdogan pointed out that he has never denied the holocaust and he recognizes Israel, so what are you going off about??
"Why don't we start the thread concentrating on what Turkey has done to many other peoples living next door to them.... The guy is a hypocrite, and I'll extend that to a great many Turks as he was hailed as a hero."
This isn't a thread about what Turkey has done to its neighbours. That can definitely be brought into the conversation as a means of showing how indeed hypocritical the man may be, but suggesting we shift a thread on this man's comments on Israel to what Turkey has done to its neighbours only does just that -- shifts focus from what the man's comments were directed towards. Save the comments on Turkey's crimes to a thread on such topics. I'll be more than happy to join in (and have, when they have persecuted Kurds Japan sent 'safely back to Turkey', etc.).
"Don't, as I find you, sadly, very biased in this conflict."
How am I biased? I have said repeatedly that I am not against Jews, but am against the Jewish government's overreaction. I have also said I do not at all support Hamas, but I feel shame over the plight of the Palestinian civilians, and the fact that they are basically suffering a seige. Where's the bias in all that? What I call bias is taking my comments about Palestinians suffering and saying it's not fair to compare the world's Muslims to the tiny space Israel has (as you did), in another of your anti-Muslim posts.
Come on, guy. Focus on the subject... I said nothing about Muslims world-wide -- YOU did.
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smithinjapan
Sorry, the last line in my first paragraph should read:
"Even yesterday when I defended Erdogen's comments and his storming off stage was 'funny coming from Hamas supporters' to wuzzademcrat (paraphrased).
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SezWho2
And that tiny spot was fundamentally taken from Muslim residents and the Muslim residents were then removed. Grouping all Muslims together is what is not a fair assessment. The people who lived in Palestine were not Egyptian, not Syrian, etc.
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skipthesong
smith, sorry. A bit on the low today. You are correct, you never claimed that but I should have written better.
Sez, it is a known fact that many moved into the areas in recent years and then claimed to be Palestinians. There were Jews there and who claim independence. No one told the Palestinians (which they were not called that at that time) they had to leave. They instead joined forces that wanted to prevent the creation of the state. Now, if they would have won, I wouldn't be arguing the point.
I am only grouping because when you call for the destruction of Isreal, you are calling for the very basic foundation of the Jews. They, unlike the Muslims who are calling for the state to cease existence (a minority of Muslim leaders have not but you know they down with the idea in private), don't have a vast amount of places. You destroy Israel, you destroy Judaism.
Turkey is a very central figure in this conflict - their ilk started this ball rolling. People here have called the US a hypocrite for defending Israel, well I am calling Turkey a hypocrite as they are still in denial of what they have done is a "real" genocide. This conflict with people saying the state of Israel can't exist is still bottom line self defense. Many other Palestinians have taken up Israeli citizenship and live fine and dandy.
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skipthesong
The government of Turkey, the successor state to the Ottoman Empire,[2] maintains that the large-scale campaign was triggered by the perception that the Greek population was sympathetic to the enemies of the Ottoman state." In addition to the Arminian, this guy is one of the main figures in a genocide denial yet you all are hugging him.
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Gombei424Canada
Well, the president of Turkey is right, my friends.Israel's over reaction NEEDS condemning.I for one am happy he didn't use the passive voice,either. I hate teh passive!
No,the president,like myself and MK Ghandi,understands that the world is not white and black.i.e., if you are criticizing Israel it DOES NOT mean you are pro-Hamas, as certain fools here foolishly continue to say.Of course, we all know that Obama's carte blanching of Israel's aggression is part of the problem.But said carte blanching is really not his fault I would say, since that was the policy in effect when he took over from bush, who always was a loser from the get go, and always WILL BE.But I am too subtle for the fools here so I won't even BOTHER to explain that, because certain posters can't understand things like paradox.Well, anyways mon amis, it was a great day for justice and nonviolence.I just wish President Erdogan would have thrown his shoe or something.
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JackBerstein
The great majority (ca. 90%) of Israelis were supporting this slaughter the whole time. But I agree his anger should not be directed at the Jewish people in general as Israel does not represent Jews.
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skipthesong
No,the president,like myself and MK Ghandi,understands that the world is not white and black.i.e."
You are putting the President of Turkey and Ghandi in the same line?
If people left Israel alone, perhaps this over reaction would not have happened. I am not saying anyone is pro Hamas, but far too many, even though they are not pro hamas, do provide them with sympathy.
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smithinjapan
Skip: "smith, sorry. A bit on the low today. You are correct, you never claimed that but I should have written better."
I was admittedly a bit harsh in my comments towards you as well. My apologies.
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SezWho2
skipthesong,
It is also a known fact that Jews were a minority. Your claim that no one forced them to leave the land is simply not credible. Israel could never have been a Jewish state otherwise. Palestine has been recognized as such at least since Roman times.
Furthermore, the argument that Israel (or, as you call them, the Jews) only took a little bit of land is pernicious. It's like only taxing you a little more or only stealing a little bit of product. The issue for the Palestinians is land and how it was come by.
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grafton
There might well be a lot more going on behind Erdogan’s out burst than a man getting angry over the deaths of Palestinians. In myself I do believe he allowed his emotions to get the better of him, but he is a politician & as such I can’t avoid my automatic doubt. Erdogan has got his own Islamic problems at home, he is trying to keep the country secular & is coming up against pressure from the those that want Turkey to allow Islam to play a greater role in government. He needs to get his popularity points up in his own country & he has just done that. Maybe how he reacted was genuine, but it did him a lot of good at home, so maybe it isn’t quite as black & white as many would like to see it.
I just wonder how comfortable he is with the following?
“Hamas pays tribute to the courageous stand of Turkey’s prime minister… who in Davos directly defended the victims of the criminal Zionist war against our children and women in Gaza,” Hamas spokesman Fawzi Barhum said”
He is very likely as disgusted by hamas putting their children up as shields as any normal man would be. Would he risk saying as much? Not if he wanted to stay prime minister of Turkey.
Just as a note to those that like details. A long time ago I watched a documentary about the attack by the united Arab armies on Israel in 1948. When it became obvious that the Arabs were not going to win, the Palestinian leadership ordered the Palestinian people to leave, or be classed as traitors. I remember listening to the radio broadcasts made by David Ben Gurion asking the Palestinian people not to leave, telling them that the new state was going to be a secular state & was still there home. It would not be a Jewish state. Over the following years many Palestinians that had stayed were murdered by the PLO because they were seen as traitors.
What Israel has become today it became with the help of those that were against it just as much as those that were its supports. I don’t like the silly details game that gets played so much here, but sometimes it helps to know that a single harmless stone landing on your metal roof hour after, after hour, after hour will eventually make you a dangerous person. Realising that it is easy to see how hamas pushed & pushed until it got the reaction it wanted, the dead children to be shown on TVs around the world. You may have a heart that is hurt by such a sight, so do I, but the men that control Gasa don’t have, they only see how the image of a dead child will influence you.
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SuperLib
and I'm 100% against Israel.
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grafton
Hamas is a political group that have a not very positive charter that blocks them from accepting the very existence of Israel & would, if they could, wipe Israel off the map even if doing so meant the deliberate killing of women & children.
Israel is a country of many, many different people thinking many different things. Like most countries I should think.
Disliking hamas is acceptable because they are a political group, disliking Israel is racism.
Now try saying on this site that you hate America & see what happens.
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grafton
Sorry the above is addressed to superlib.
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SezWho2
grafton,
I think SuperLib has his tongue in his cheek. I think you'll find that generally speaking he supports Israel and opposes Hamas and I suspect this is his way of mocking smithinjapan's assertion that he (smith) is 100% against Hamas.
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