Monday May 28, 2012

JAPAN NEWS AND DISCUSSION

U.S. ambassador says human rights in China worsening

World Jan. 17, 2012 - 04:00PM JST ( 33 )

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The US ambassador to Beijing has said Chinese leaders are very fearful of social and political unrest within China

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33 Comments

2

some14someJan. 17, 2012 - 04:49PM JST

thanks for reminding about 'human rights' after long time. Impose sanctions and bring justice to dissidents :(
3

globalwatcherJan. 17, 2012 - 04:51PM JST

Many Chinese students I have met here did not want to talk anything about their government. They are afraid.
-2

Elbuda MexicanoJan. 17, 2012 - 06:48PM JST

Not only Chinese are afraid but students from Cuba too!!
0

tmarieJan. 17, 2012 - 07:42PM JST

Many Chinese students I have met here did not want to talk anything about their government. They are afraid.

Interesting. The ones I've met/taught are very pro-Chinese government and will argue at the drop of a hat abotu how great it is - all the while studying abroad...
-3

Elbuda MexicanoJan. 17, 2012 - 07:55PM JST

My guess not only Chinese but now under Chavez many Venezuelans too??
-10

Herve Nmn L'EisaJan. 17, 2012 - 09:31PM JST

The US complaining about human rights violations??? Well, isn't THAT the pot calling the kettle black! The US boasts the worlds largest prison population by number AND per capita. More blacks in PRISON now, than enslaved pre-Civil War!!
0

yosunJan. 17, 2012 - 09:34PM JST

@ tmarie:

I think we should grade a (any) government base on more aspects so as to let people accept it, say, 20% for economic performance, 20% for management efficiency, 20% for democratic reform, 20% for education, 20% for science development... etc, this way your grading will be fair and your Chinese friends might accept your thought more easily. Chinese government get "F" for democratic reform, however it's other courses might be not that bad. However you grade it totally "F", for sure your Chinese students will be angry.
1

USNinJapan2Jan. 17, 2012 - 09:53PM JST

Herve Nmn L'Eisa

The US boasts the worlds largest prison population by number AND per capita.

This is a result of the US handing out longer sentences compared to other countries. Many other countries have higher numbers of their population sentenced to jail but their incarceration rate is lower than the US because their sentences are much shorter and their criminals aren't in jail as long. You could claim that the US has stricter punishment for crimes compared to other countries but how is this a human rights violation? A harsh prison sentence meted out following due process is a violation of the criminals' human rights? I don't think so.

More blacks in PRISON now, than enslaved pre-Civil War!!

Really? I was curious so I did a quick google search and the wiki gives the latest (2009) black prison population as just over 900,000. The 1860 census records the number of slaves that year as 3,950,528. Do you have different figures that support your outlandish claim above?
1

Herve Nmn L'EisaJan. 17, 2012 - 11:19PM JST

Numbers correction, 7.2M under correctional supervision, 70% of which are "non-whites". I misread initially. More accurately, well over 4 million incarcerated(total of all ethnicities). Any way you slice the numbers, that's an unbelievable number. Too many incarcerated.
As for the human rights issue, overly harsh sentences meted out ring more as from a totalitarian regime than from an advanced democracy. How about extra-judicial, non-reviewable killing based on "classified" information? The say-so of an unknown, unverifiable informant is enough for a drone strike, totally non-reviewable. Sounds like a crime, at the very least a human rights issue. Who else routinely conducts extra judicial killings with impunity?
-2

Herve Nmn L'EisaJan. 17, 2012 - 11:25PM JST

Sorry, 2.9M incarcerated as of 2009. Still, that's 10% .
0

maglev101Jan. 17, 2012 - 11:34PM JST

@tmarie - Interesting. The ones I've met/taught are very pro-Chinese government and will argue at the drop of a hat abotu how great it is - all the while studying abroad...

supporting one's govt and supporting one's educational system seem like a different matter.
-1

SerranoJan. 17, 2012 - 11:55PM JST

"Asia's energy-hungry top economies"

They had better get with the program and cut their energy consumption and CO2 emissions.
-2

USNinJapan2Jan. 18, 2012 - 12:54AM JST

Herve Nmn L'Eisa

So you obviously feel that the US' judicial system abuses human rights? In what way? Because the sentences are 'overly harsh' in your opinion?

I feel that the laws themselves are fair, and if people break them and are tried, found guilty and sentenced to incarceration I don't believe that their human rights have been abused. Which inalienable (human) rights do you feel have been violated through this due process? It's not logical to infer that rights have been violated simply because there is a high prison population or because sentences for certain crimes are stricter in relation to other countries.
4

MadvertsJan. 18, 2012 - 12:54AM JST

Obviously a report about Chinese human rights abuse makes me want to lash out at America.

It makes perfect sense.
0

YuriOtaniJan. 18, 2012 - 01:42AM JST

USNinJapan2, stands up and claps. I find myself agreeing with you more and more. Oh interesting...
0

globalwatcherJan. 18, 2012 - 03:50AM JST

tmarieJan. 17, 2012 - 07:42PM JST

Many Chinese students I have met here did not want to talk anything about their government. They are afraid.

Interesting. The ones I've met/taught are very pro-Chinese government and will argue at the drop of a hat abotu how great it is

I think they know I do not just listen to them with compassion and empathy. FYI, I am very active in human rights violation issues..
-1

TigermothIIJan. 18, 2012 - 04:22AM JST

The US complaining about human rights violations??? Well, isn't THAT the pot calling the kettle black! The US boasts the worlds largest prison population by number AND per capita. More blacks in PRISON now, than enslaved pre-Civil War!!

There are also many, many factors in this that you don't address in your condemnation of the US (imagine that!). The US is third in population density, which might have a good deal to do with having a larger percentage incarcerated. At least they are incarcerated within the laws of due process; not always perfect, but overall pretty good I think. We have a free and open society. It's great to live in, but also opens society up for more 'opportunity' for the criminal mind. We border Mexico and South America funnels drugs up to the rich north. More opportunity for crime. We have relatively open immigration laws (too open in my mind). Remember 'give us your poor...' ect. When you have people immigrating to a country where they don't speak the language, might not have valid papers and have no real marketable skills, sometimes crime is an option they might feel need to exercise. Everyone wants the American dream of wealth, but not everyone is willing to put in the hard work and depressingly long hours to achieve success and the wealth it brings.

As far as 'blacks' being incarcerated (a term which African Americans do not really care for I don't think)....it's a long, difficult, and painful social issue that causes a great divide and a great deal of strife in this country. But as an example, I live in Washington, DC when it was known as the 'murder capital' of the world. 99 % of the violence was black on black crime, usually concerning drugs. Some sociologists might disagree, but that lifestyle is a choice. Give a street punk/gang-banger a choice of working at the local quickie-mart for a wage that would at least provide food and clothing, or dealing for the big score, and it won't even be a choice. Who's fault is that? Mainstream white America? Me going about my daily drudgery working a normal 9-5 with mediocre pay? You tell me.

The American society has become and entitlement society and one where getting by is not enough. The twisted answer is crime. Why earn it honestly when you can earn ten times as much dishonestly?

End results - higher crime rate. But keep in mind that being locked up for dealing crystal meth and being locked up because you write an anti-government newspaper are two entirely different things.
1

Patrick HaggerJan. 18, 2012 - 05:30AM JST

Human rights is more than: abortions, gay marriage, illegal alien amnesty, and decriminalizing drug usage. It must include the ending of coercion of minorties of being subjects to government dependency.
0

TriumvereJan. 18, 2012 - 05:54AM JST

Madverts,

Obviously a report about Chinese human rights abuse makes me want to lash out at America. It makes perfect sense.

You misunderstand: the need to lash out is a constant. The occasion is of no consequence.
1

7solace9Jan. 18, 2012 - 07:18AM JST

Which inalienable (human) rights do you feel have been violated through this due process?

Most violations of human rights occur when due process has been denied.
-2

tmarieJan. 18, 2012 - 09:09AM JST

** @tmarie - Interesting. The ones I've met/taught are very pro-Chinese government and will argue at the drop of a hat abotu how great it is - all the while studying abroad...

supporting one's govt and supporting one's educational system seem like a different matter.**

Who said anything about the education system? The way I see it, the ones who are able to get out and study come from wealthy backgrounds so of course, don't see a problem with the system. They aren't the ones being locked up based on religion, creed... What do they care? Personally, I find they lack an empathy for those who have it worse off than they do. I find that sad - though no surprising based on China's value that human life isn't worth much.
-1

sfjp330Jan. 18, 2012 - 09:27AM JST

Japan and China are in the high 98 percent conviction rate, but does really this tell us about criminal convictions? Are these two systems remotely comparable? Do prosecutors really screen cases better so that they lose fewer of them, or is the system one in which being charged with a crime pretty much results in a conviction or both? Is a practice of torturing those arrested relevant to the conviction statistics? Hey, don’t laugh at the question, considering that was considered standard procedure in this part of the world in “olden days”: “In Europe and the New World, until the early 18th century, it was common for the justice system to have suspects tortured to extract confessions from them, since circumstantial evidence was rarely analyzed or admitted in those times. Although this practice is generally and has generally been disallowed in the more recent past, except during 20th-century fascist and Soviet governments, there have been attempts to introduce evidence obtained from suspects tortured elsewhere.
-2

Herve Nmn L'EisaJan. 18, 2012 - 11:59AM JST

Due process of law is at the heart of the matter. The wealthy are much less likely to be convicted(considering comparable crimes) for a variety of reasons:well-paid attorneys, leniency, connections, even race. The War on Drugs has exacerbated the situation of the lower class. It's also very true as another poster noted that the Entitlement syndrome has also played a major role. Where real employment opportunities lacked or diminished, reliance on the State or illegal income sources increased. This poverty cycle disproportionately affects minorities whether black, hispanic, or other. Black is not a pejorative. I'm black. The Civil Rights movement is a Human Rights movement. But this is not merely about race. It's about oppression. With the multitudes of laws, more and more people wind up becoming labelled as criminals, losing Human Rights, for many actions previously not deemed as crimes. And when a person is incarcerated for a minor offense, that person is more likely to then commit more serious offenses, largely out of desparation. If you ever lived in a ghetto, you would know there are fewer and fewer ways out. It becomes a caste system. There is no forgiveness or compassion. So, it's without a doubt a human rights issue, a plunging spiral. The US needs to get its own house in order before accusing others regarding human rights. Let's not mention indefinite detention, secret rendition, assassinations, etc too much. Guantanamo is not the US's only(or first) gulag.
1

JeremiahWJan. 18, 2012 - 12:33PM JST

The US boasts the worlds largest prison population by number AND per capita. More blacks in PRISON now, than enslaved pre-Civil War!!

12 percent of the population committing 70 percent of the crime is what you are saying. And what is really strnage is that the South has lower rates of incarceration.
0

JeremiahWJan. 18, 2012 - 12:35PM JST

Does this mean Thomas Friedman was wrong about China?
0

Elbuda MexicanoJan. 18, 2012 - 01:58PM JST

We can complain about China but do we really want all them folk to be running hog wild with too much freedom? drugs? guns and etc..like back in Virginia and or Chicago?? As for me, let the communists in China do there thing.
1

NessieJan. 18, 2012 - 02:00PM JST

Human rights in China always worsen around US election time.
1

NessieJan. 18, 2012 - 02:13PM JST

@usnin

You could claim that the US has stricter punishment for crimes compared to other countries but how is this a human rights violation? A harsh prison sentence meted out following due process is a violation of the criminals' human rights? I don't think so.

The argument is that the sentences for nonviolent crimes are laughably severe and disproportionately imposed on racial minorities. It may not be a clear-cut human rights violationk but it borders on it, and it's reckless social policy in any case.

Incidentally, I appreciate the chance to disagree with someone whose posts I appreciate and opinions I respect.
0

Elbuda MexicanoJan. 18, 2012 - 02:21PM JST

Here! Here! I think freedom is out of control for the rich in the USA too but in the case of China, just too many people, too many different groups and they DO HAVE NUCLEAR missiles, do we want China to be broken up like the ex Soviet Union??
-1

JeremiahWJan. 18, 2012 - 02:58PM JST

The argument is that the sentences for nonviolent crimes are laughably severe and disproportionately imposed on racial minorities

LOL. Ever heard of "sanctuary cities" ? Obviously not...
0

Herve Nmn L'EisaJan. 18, 2012 - 09:21PM JST

Extrajudicial killings which are unreviewable, performed on the soil if a different sovereign nation secretly, then announced proudly to the world is not the picture of promoters of democracy and liberty that a reasonable person would expect. It represents the abandonment of the rule of law and that tyranny has taken its place. Madison and Jefferson would turn in their graves lamenting the monstrosity the Land of Liberty has devolved into.
0

JeanValJeanJan. 18, 2012 - 10:07PM JST

Generally, the US has gone very much in the wrong direction regarding human rights especially in the past several years. I have to agree it seems the pot is calling the kettle black.
-1

MolenirJan. 20, 2012 - 07:44AM JST

Generally, the US has gone very much in the wrong direction regarding human rights especially in the past several years. I have to agree it seems the pot is calling the kettle black.

Yes, because everywhere you look, people get arrested, tried, convicted, and executed, without even being indicted, or having a warrant issued against them. I mean, just last week the US executed about a hundred people on drug charges. And they'll execute another hundred this week... Yeah, the US has a horrible human rights record. Much, much worse then Chinas.