U.S., Russia discuss Syria's future

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  • 0

    NeverSubmit

    The best way to ensure the safety of the Syrian people and the security of Chem weapons is to stem the flow of weapons and fighters to the Al Qaeda rebels.

  • 0

    Konsta

    No, the best way to ensure the safety is to get directly involved for both the US and Russia, and not allow the vacuum of power when Assad is gone, which is pretty clear now. I am not sure, whether the US or Russia want to be directly involved, but if they don't, we will get Lybia+Islamism+chemical weapons+ready to continue in Lebanon, Israel + one can add features at will.

  • 0

    sfjp330

    Konsta Dec. 07, 2012 - 08:04AM JST No, the best way to ensure the safety is to get directly involved for both the US and Russia, and not allow the vacuum of power when Assad is gone, which is pretty clear now.

    Russia will reject what it sees as a world order dominated by the U.S. This is the only reason why Russia is supporting Syria. If Russia really care about human rights and democracy, why don't they start changing their own countries? I don't see how democracy can thrive in a country where there's religious discrimination among sects. Religious authoritarianism is their downfall. Their superstitious beliefs inspire them to murder each other, and disregard each other's humanity.

  • 0

    Tamarama

    Keep funding the Syrian rebels, let them overthrow their murderous overlord, let them organise democratic elections and vote for and choose a government they want. They will kick out the foreigners and the couple of hundred Al Qaida that might be there and rule their country properly.

  • 0

    Konsta

    TamaramaDec. 07, 2012 - 08:44AM JST Keep funding the Syrian rebels, let them overthrow their murderous overlord, let them organise democratic elections and vote for and choose a government they want. They will kick out the foreigners and the couple of hundred Al Qaida that might be there and rule their country properly.

    Idealism. Most probably they will dismiss courts like in Egypt, kill a bunch of western ambassadors like in Lybia or join Iranian military efforts, like in Irak, or all these things altogether. As a difference, unlike sissy Assad, they will have chemical weapons to threaten neighbors and to ensure that the US, Israel or Russia will never meddle with the "proper ruling" of the country a la Morsi.

  • 0

    Tamarama

    Most probably they will dismiss courts like in Egypt, kill a bunch of western ambassadors like in Lybia or join Iranian military efforts, like in Irak, or all these things altogether. As a difference, unlike sissy Assad, they will have chemical weapons to threaten neighbors and to ensure that the US, Israel or Russia will never meddle with the "proper ruling" of the country a la Morsi.

    Cynicism and racism.

  • 0

    Konsta

    sfjp330, Serious questions - serious answer. :) You are right, of course. I don't think that human rights and democracy are ##1 and 2 priorities of Russian government. Not now. There are many problems Russia has to deal with. However, I am not very worried about the religious rise yet. Russia had religious starvation during communist years and after that the country was almost in ruins, so people had other things in mind. Now, when their level of life somewhat returns, people start thinking about religion and other such things. It is always like that. Let's not take a bell-shaped figure for an exponential increase.

    But all-in-all you are very right that a civilized society must have certain things in check. Europe reminds Russia about them constantly. I can name several other things that are very poor in Russia as well.

    Internationally, however, Russia is still one of the biggest and most influential players. Its influence in international affairs is much higher than the influence of such rich countries as Germany, for example, and incomparably higher than that of the other BRIC countries, including China. Thus, it is not surprising that the US discusses things with Russia, even though some of the American senators behave like North Koreans.

    With respect to Japan, Russia behaves in a very mature way, which is shown (in comparison) by how quickly the territorial problem with China got out of hand.

    So, I would only partially mix internal Russian problems and its international behavior, as far as the US world dominance problem, or Syrian problem are concerned.

  • 0

    Konsta

    TamaramaDec. 07, 2012 - 09:23AM JST Cynicism and racism.

    Facts. From all around the place. You don't even elaborate. Not interesting. You can give me at least one fact, supporting your idealistic view of the "rebels" and "proper ruling"?

  • 0

    Konsta

    PS. On the other hand, Tamarama, don't bother. I do not enjoy arguing with people, who use labels and words, such as racism, without understanding of their meaning, to accuse other people, and as a tool to defend their point. It is clear that all, who fight on both sides of the Syrian conflict are of the same race.

  • 0

    YuriOtani

    Just wait until the Syrian government starts to use poison gas. Hear on TV it has been mixed and loaded. If people have died up to now it is nothing if they use sarin gas. 100,000 plus dead and maybe more. If NATO intervenes perhaps Turkey and Greece will become targets. While all of the attention is on North Korea this is something to be afraid. Oh 1 shell equals 18,000 dead.

  • 0

    T-Mack

    Both these counrties need to be speaking of their own future's!...Syria has had no help, and Africa get's no attention...

  • -1

    NeverSubmit

    Free, fair an open elections are path out of this but nothing can change until the rebels stop firing and killing people.

    Any election should be open to all candidates, including Assad and current cabinent ministers.

    After all, if Assad is as unpopular as some people claim then what's the harm in having him run in elections.

    In demanding that any future election excludes Assad and current ministers pretty much confirms that Assad is far more popular than NATO leaders would like to admit and their afraid that he'd probably win any and all future elections.

    In fact he's more popular than ever because he's taking a stand against the rebel invaders and keeping the Islamists at bay. For Christians, he's basically their only hope for survival in Syria as they're outnumbered 10 to 1 by Muslims and the rebels have made clear that Christians will be subject to Sharia Law regardless of their religion. The more extreme elements of the rebels have even more sinister plans for the 2 million Christians that live in Syria.

  • 0

    SuperLib

    NeverSubmit: After all, if Assad is as unpopular as some people claim then what's the harm in having him run in elections.

    Sure, he only killed peaceful protesters. What's the harm in having him run in elections?

  • -3

    NeverSubmit

    Sure, he only killed peaceful protesters

    "He" killed them? Really? Like with his bare hands in a fist fight?

    Do you have any tangible proof whatsoever that any peaceful protestors were killed or are you just quoting the Damascus blogger again?

  • 0

    Tamarama

    Konsta

    On the other hand, Tamarama, don't bother.

    Oh no, I think I will. My understanding of racism is perfectly sound. Here is how Wiki sees it;

    Racism is usually defined as views, practices and actions reflecting the belief that humanity is divided into distinct biological groups called races and that members of a certain race share certain attributes which make that group as a whole less desirable, more desirable, inferior or superior.

    Here is what you said about the Syrians;

    Most probably they will dismiss courts like in Egypt, kill a bunch of western ambassadors like in Lybia or join Iranian military efforts, like in Irak, or all these things altogether.

    So, they can't handle democracy, they are murderers and they will tend towards militarism. You may as well just say 'We can't expect much from them because they are Syrian'. Clearly, and irrefutably, that is cultural/racial stereotyping that slots very neatly in as racism. You can try to window dress it any way you like, but it is what it is. Perhaps you are the one that needs to revisit your definitions my friend.

    This is, by the way, a view I have seen pop up a number of times through the nearly 2 years of discussion that has been running on this topic. A general belief that the people of the Middle East are incapable of anything other than violence. Your statement is nothing new.

  • 0

    ubikwit

    Better late than never.

  • 0

    slumdog

    Do you have any tangible proof whatsoever that any peaceful protestors were killed

    This is at the beginning. The Syrian government beat peaceful protesters. Before you come back with the government response contained within the article, let me prerespond with I do not believe the Syrian government. Any government that needs to rule with martial law for four decades cannot be trusted to tell the truth. How can you justify a government not allowing its people to protest peacefully?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/24/syria-crackdown-protest-arrests-beatings

    Tensions are mounting in the Syrian capital, Damascus, after the third** peaceful demonstration **in three weeks was violently dispersed on Wednesday. There are increasing reports of intimidation and blocking of communications by secret services in the wake of violent unrest in neighbouring Arab countries. Fourteen people were arrested and several people beaten by uniformed and plainclothes police on Tuesday after about 200 staged a peaceful sit-in outside the Libyan embassy to show support for Libya's protesters. Witnesses said at least two women were among those beaten.

  • 0

    slumdog

    After all, if Assad is as unpopular as some people claim then what's the harm in having him run in elections.

    Thanks. I almost forgot. You were going to get back to me with your information about the percentage that Assad received in the 2000 and 2007 presidential elections. I believe I suggested it was around 98% which is a true sign that the Syrian government is a dictatorship. You suggested the percentage was mistaken, but have not as yet said what you think the percentage was. So, are you ready to answer? Remember, I am not interested in recent elections. I am talking about the 2000 and 2007 presidential elections in Syria in which Assad received approximately 98% of the vote. I am not talking about elections for parliment that took place this year in May.

  • 0

    slumdog

    Do you have any tangible proof whatsoever that any peaceful protestors were killed

    Do you have any tangible proof whatsoever that Hussam Abdel Wali Ayyash and Akram Jawabreh were not protesting peacefully?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12791738

    Two of the dead people were named by witnesses as Hussam Abdel Wali Ayyash and Akram Jawabreh.

  • 0

    NeverSubmit

    Fourteen people were arrested

    14 people arrested?

    That's all you got. Do you have any idea how many OWS protesters were arrested in America last year.

    14 people arrested, questionable reports of 2 people killed? These are farsical numbers. I don't see how 14 people constitute a mass uprising.

    after about 200 staged a peaceful sit-in outside the Libyan embassy to show support for Libya's protesters.

    200 people is a joke, that's like a minor college gathering of hippies in the States, the average G8 protest in a major city will draw about 1000 times that figure.

    Since when does 14 people arrested and 200 people protesting constitute a spontaneous mass uprising.

  • 0

    sfjp330

    Konsta Dec. 07, 2012 - 09:45AM JST Internationally, however, Russia is still one of the biggest and most influential players. Its influence in international affairs is much higher than the influence of such rich countries as Germany, for example, and incomparably higher than that of the other BRIC countries, including China. Thus, it is not surprising that the US discusses things with Russia, even though some of the American senators behave like North Koreans.

    I have never heard Russia call for restraint in any crisis. When the Syrian attack started, The Russians opposed any international attempt to force the Syrian government to show restraint. The Russians can easily dispose of Assad. But they want something in return. They don't want NATO missiles in Eastern Europe. That will be the deal, but U.S. will have to promise to do it later so as not to to get the right-wing extremist in the U.S. a fit. U.S. has made these deals before and any international crisis requires give and take.

  • 0

    slumdog

    14 people arrested, questionable reports of 2 people killed? These are farsical numbers. I don't see how 14 people constitute a mass uprising.

    You really need to read what I wrote again. This was the beginning and it was a peaceful assembly. Any protests were outlawed under martial law. Any criticism of Assad and his dictator government is punished by arrests and beatings.Considering how much you like to criticize those in authority, one would think you would be against the actions of the Syrian government.

    So, how about those Assad presidential election percentages for 2000 and 2007? Unless, you now agree with the figure of approximately 98% of the vote going to Assad. In which case, you will admit it is clearly a dictatorship.

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