UK 'Remain' camp's lead narrows before EU referendum

I'm guessing it will get even tighter as people start paying attention the number of undecideds increases.

Michael Gove was absolutely savaged on SkyNews the other day. It's really worth watching. In addition to lying about the UK's contribution, it was gobsmaking to hear Gove (the Lord Chancellor) telling a woman that her right to live in France would be protected after Brexit by some unspecified principle in 'international law'. This is simply an absurd lie. Owning a home in the EU will not confer any right to live there under international law.

I think debate is always healthy but the Brexit campaign has become a deliberate and desperate campaign of lies. Here's the video:

https://youtu.be/t8D8AoC-5i8

@ M3M3M3

I'm not sure if you understand the meaning of savaged. Michael Gove did really well. He won the audience at several points of the programme and even embarrassed the interviewer for his biased questioning. It was interesting to note that every single question he was asked by the "balanced" audience was an anti-Brexit one.

This is simply an absurd lie.

That sums up the entire leave campaign.

The truth is "let's do it and see what happens" . The consequences could be dire, and the effects on us expats are a given. Gove cannot in anyway protect the rights of expat Britons abroad and he's a fool for saying so.

Hi M3M3M3, If you are resident in France or have property in any of the other 27 EU states, including UK, there is full protection under article 60a of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties 1969.

I am not going to sound like a broken record and repetitively harp on. There is time yet, especially with economic events unfolding in Italy and the proposed use of the Outright Monetary Transactions programme. The ECB will have to purchase unlimited amounts of debt from Italian government to shore up its banking system.

Also the OECD may hold off publishing a report on the impact of sub zero interest rates on global retirement incomes. The UK is in for a caning.

http://people.unica.it/giacomobiagioni/files/2013/10/Slide81.ppt

I

I am reassured by the most accurate poll of all:

http://sports.ladbrokes.com/sports-central/uk-eu-referendum/

71% odds on Remain.

@Tangerine2000

I'm not sure if you understand the meaning of savaged. Michael Gove did really well.

I guess these things are a bit subjective, but is that really what you thought? He seems to struggle quite a bit with the truth.

@itsonlyrocknroll

If you are resident in France or have property in any of the other 27 EU states, including UK, there is full protection under article 60a of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties 1969.

Can you explain what you mean by 'full protection', and protection from what exactly? As I see it, Article 60 prevents France from taking retaliatory measures against Brits in France if, for example, the UK unilaterally decided to stop making budget contributions, or some other breach of EU treaties. An orderly Brexit will not be a breach of any treaty. If Brexit happens, France (as a sovereign nation) take back control over its own immigration policies when it comes to Brits.

If you own a home in France after Brexit but have no special immigration status under French law (ie permanent residence), France will have every right to limit your stay to 90 days as a tourist. If you want to live or work there permanently, you will need to apply in the ordinary way.

Hi M3M3M3 the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties 1969 affords signatures a period of reflection and negotiation.

in all honesty Brits living in France as well as French nationals working and living in the UK will not suddenly be turfed out.

You are fully aware and I agree with your sentiment. However the economies of France, Italy and Spain under and single currency will continue to struggle for a wealth of economic and political issues with the overwhelming political influence of Germany.

The UK cannot and will not be able to cease contributions. The UK will have to continue with all requirements of a member state up until exit negotiations are completed.

I have always viewed the dangers of Brexit as less economical and more political.

" This is simply an absurd lie. "

This sums up the entire "remain" campaign. I so hope that reason prevails and the UK leaves this totalitarian monster that the EU is becoming.

But I doubt the the smoke-filled back rooms will let them, even if the "leave" vote wins. It is truly sad to see what is happening to Europe.

Rubbish Willi. The Leave campaign has been one disgraceful lie after another. No economic plan whatsoever. The Leave campaign is feeding the racist tendencies of your average tabloid reader suggesting, as foolish as it is, that leaving the EU will somehow solve the UK's immigration woes. It is of no surprise to me that you of all posters a leading the charge into the dark...

Rockandroll,

in all honesty Brits living in France as well as French nationals working and living in the UK will not suddenly be turfed out.

No, but all of a sudden things will change dramatically. Residency permits. Double taxation. Do you really think the French will not punish the Brits? A Brexit would only spur on nationalistic nonsense in France, who coi Unt on Europe to stave off the collapse of the glorious socialist experiment...

I doubt the Germans will keep the cheque book open after such a scenario.

But if Ladbrookes are giving 71% odds at this point like I said earlier, common sense will prevail.

@itsonlyrocknroll

Thank you for the clarification. I agree that people will not be turfed out. Even in the event of a 'Yes' vote, the negotiations will probably take so long that most Brits in France will be able to meet minimum number of years required for a permanent residence type visa. I'm sure France and other countries will also adopt some humanitarian transitional measures on their own to help people who want to stay.

However, there will definitely be some people who currently spend half the year in France and half in the UK (ie. For work or because they own a holiday home). It seems that many of these people won't be in France for long enough during the year to meet the fairly strict residency and integration requirements. Despite what Gove was suggesting, whether they own property or not will have no bearing on their immigration status. I think he should have been clear on that.

I live in France and have dual nationality so it can't affect me. The same cannot be said for my parents, and tens of thousands like them that cannot qualiffy - be it here or in Spain.

And this after taking their livelihoods to invest and buy a retirement property on the continent.

Hi M3M3M3, I am the only one of two exiters in my UK family of 45. I worry deeply for there future health, particularity the requirements of land holdings and farming. They are reliant on EU financial subsidence to compensate the low wages and squeezed margins of the supermarket chains. Both campaigns neglect to state the implications coherently.

@itsonlyrocknroll

I completely understand your concern and I think everyone has one issue in the referendum which is most important to them. In my case, it's maintaining freedom of movement for young people in Europe. I've been lucky enough to work across Europe at a number of smaller companies who, unlike big multinationals, would never have had the resources to go through the hassle and complexity of sponsoring me for a work visa if freedom of movement didn't exist. I hope young Brits will have the same opportunites.

I'd agree that farming is probably the one area of the EU most urgently in need of reform. I'm certainly no expert in this area but it's not exactly clear to me how leaving the EU would make things better, particularly when you consider that the conservative government is more likely to do the bidding of the big supermarkets. Perhaps you can explain what you'd like to see the EU do or not do?

One problem I see is that many Brexit supporters (present company excluded) seem to think that the UK will be entirely free from any and all regulation after Brexit. For example, Michael Gove is convinced that the EU is responsible for the demise of his father's fishing business, but the reality is that an independent UK would probably have imposed similar quotas and environmental regulations in the 1970s and 80s to deal with dramatic decline of fish stocks.

HI M3M3M3,Madverts, Certainly states governments will be disappointed if any one of the net contributors leaves the EU.

However Southern Europe economies are on the verge of collapse, and there is no prospect in sight of reform or restructuring of the single currency. Inevitably the net contributors will have to bail them out. The issue here is future generations will be burdened with the debts. It will be the Italian banking system that will deliver the fatal blow not brexit.