U.S. blames Taliban for civilian deaths in Afghanistan
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0
OnTheRecord
Who is any rational decent person going to believe? America of course, not agroup of terrorist thugs who live in medieval ways.
0
Nijik
After 100,000 civilian deaths in Iraq (http://www.iraqbodycount.org/) over 6 years, mostly, but not all, from American weapons how hard is it to believe 140 civilians were killed by US forces in Afghanistan. The US warplanes made 13 passes over the villages dropping bombs and strafing [with cannon]; It doesn't matter what nation's pilots were flying them, or how good they were, innocent people are going to die.
In battles people die, and in battles with airplanes dropping bombs and strafing villages of mud buildings, innocents villagers die. It just terribly sad and tragic, but regrettably unavoidable.
The choice was War or No War. As the decision is for War, then if we disagreed we should blame the politicians not the soldiers, and we agreed we must accept the horrific cost of our decision.
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yabits
This brings back memories of Vietnam.
Yes, just like My Lai. Who lie? America of course.
0
Sarge
Karzai: "We cannot justify, in any manner, for whatever number of Taliban, for whatever number of significantly important terrorists, the accidental or othewise loss of civilians"
So, what Karzai is saying is, no action that could result in the loss of civilians can be taken against the terrorists. I see the Pakistanis don't agree with him, as they are launching a full-scale offensive involving helicopter gunships blasting away in the Swat Valley, in apparent total disregard for the possibility of the loss of civilians.
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SushiSake3
Change I can believe.
After years of failure in this arena, under President Obama, the U.S. is finally putting the pressure on the country that WAS, in fact, behind 9-11 instead of going off on some half-ar*sed GOP-backed joy ride into a country that had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the New York attacks.
But it's still a given the GOP will complain about this.
Honestly, Bush, the GOP, Sarge, teleprompter, etc. were the best things to ever happen to the Democrats. The GOP has never been such a powerfully irrelevant force as they are now. :-)
Yes, I disagree with both these wars, but heck, as I said above, at least the U.S. is now putting more emphasis on the war it should have had as its numero uno priority 6 years ago but went wildly astray under Bush and the GOP.
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Sarge
"the U.S. is finally putting the pressure on the country that WAS, in fact, behind 9-11"
Kicking the Taliban out of power apparently wasn't putting enough pressure on them. Go figure.
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jeancolmar
US militarism has not changed. The US drops the bombs and kills innocent people, then blames the Taliban, who did not drop the bombs. What a load.
How does that make the Taliban look in the hearts and minds of the Afghan people?
Afghanistan is known as the breaker of Empires. Gorbachev was smart enough to pull out of Afghanistan, though it was already too late. Let's see if Obama will wise up.
This loser war, started by Bush, has thrown the entire region into chaos. It is going to get worse.
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teleprompter
Why don't you ask the millions who fled in '96?
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Sarge
"The US drops the bombs and kills innocent people, then blames the Taliban"
Yes, there is absolutely no way the Taliban killed any innocents and blamed the U.S.
"It is going to get worse"
With President Obama as commander in chief? No way!
0
proxy
I believe the US truly regrets the loss of civilian life but possibly they place too little value on the civilians. Surely, there must be a road to victory without killing so many civilians. Patients would serve NATO better. Couldn't they have surrounded the town and starved out the enemy?
0
sailwind
proxy
This was a set up ambush by the Taliban. Let's get to the basic facts on this battle.
Afghan Security Forces were in the lead. They came under attack an attack so intense they called in for help. Our forces responded and they themselves came under attack. They are in a life or death firefight without any knowledge of the true enemy strength, positions, escape routes, re-supply lines or strong points. At this stage of the battle the leaders on the ground are only concerned with one thing, keeping his men alive and not being killed. The leaders on the ground felt the situation they found themselves in so desperate that they could not take out the enemy and protect his forces with the firepower they had on hand.
They called in airstrikes. You have to remember something very important here. They are in close contact now. This is a raging battle if it gets so bad that the troops on the ground have to call in airstrikes to suppress enemy fire, it's either life or death now for both sides. Also when you have to call in airstikes while engeged in close combat.......Here it comes, you have no way that you can 100 percent sure that YOU don't get blown up instead because the pilot made a mistake in what target to hit. I know for a fact that you've heard of friendly fire incidents.
Now the question I have for those who want to rail agaisn't the U.S for using airpower in support of close combat troops, and I'm sure glad it ain't you at the other end of the phone when the call came in requesting them. The question is......The desperate call comes in for air support of YOUR troops who are mortal danger now you going to tell them no?
0
Nijik
teleprompter -- I agree with you, that the US military is doing good things to help and rebuild the Iraqi infrastructure, and as the web-site I linked shows almost every recent death has been from insurgent death squads not Allied weapons. The soldiers out there are brave, braver than me, and I recognise it and respect them for it.
The point I was making, however, is that most of the huge number of civilian deaths occurred in the fighting at the beginning, when US/British bombs were being dropped on places where civilians and combatants mixed. Innocent deaths were inevitable then and are inevitable in Afghanistan now. We can't have war without innocent casualties but these days we try to pretend we can and get outraged when it happens. We cannot blame the soldiers for fighting in an impossible dilemma; we should either blame ourselves for expecting a perfect war where no innocents get killed in the crossfire, or if we can't accept that then don't have a war.
What gets me is not the fact civilians die (although I do regret it and feel sorry for them) its the fact that we don't/can't own up to it -- we try to sanitise war and pretend only the bad guys get killed, and I think that is immoral because it denies the terrible cost of these decisions in friend, foe and innocent lives lost.
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pathat
There is plenty of blame to be shared by all concerned. No one needs to feel left out in Afghanistan, and there will be more to come.
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SuperLib
You're against Obama on Afghanistan? Perhaps you feel he's making a mistake?
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jeancolmar
"Why don't you ask the millions who fled in '96?"
A better idea: Ask the people who are there now.
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likeitis
I do. But the original mistake was not Obama's. He is just perpetuating it.
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likeitis
The U.S. cannot win be seen as good by the populace when calling in airstrikes that kill civilians. If the U.S. military, already viewed with suspicion by virtue of being a foreign military in a foreign land, cannot be perceived by the populace as good, then we have already lost and should pack it up and go home.
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yabits
Especially when certain segments within the military community feel it is their responsibility as Christians to attempt to convert Muslims.
Putting all the blame on the Taliban for civilian deaths is kind of like how the US military initially handled the whole affair with Pat Tillman.
The only way that Afghanistan is going to evolve from the tribalism that besets it now is through economic and educational progress -- and nobody reading this is going to live to see that day, as the transformation will take many decades if not a century. Western countries can be involved in the transformation, but not through use of their militaries.
The parallels between Afghanistan and Vietnam are striking. It is no small irony that US conservative policymakers themselves referred to Afghanistan as "Russia's Vietnam."
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teleprompter
Obama is Bush, who was just perpetuating Clinton's engagement with the Taliban...
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adaydream
I have in the past blamed the US military for a lot of these deaths. And I have been correct, with circumstances. I have to be candid and say that if these reports are correct then it's the Taliban that has led the US military into these actions, it's the Taliban who have resorted to despicable warfare.
Given that, we have to change our way of fighting. We have to put boots on the ground in these areas and quit firing into the hands of the Taliban. If the Taliban are using these deplorable fighting tactics then we have to change our way of fighting.
If the Taliban are using this fighting tactics and I believe that they are capable of it, then we have to become smarter and going into these villages. PROBLEM This will start to mean more military deaths. This means that more coalition/US miliary will die in face to face fighting.
We have to find a way to fight the Taliban smarter. < :-)
0
sharky1
adaydream....never been in combat eh? Goods words, but not practical. The taliban doesn't wear uniforms and they blend in with the general population. Some of them are trained by our troops, then they turn on our troops in a patrol, and start killing our servicemen. The civilian deaths are deplorable, but the taliban that is using them for human shields should be held 100% accountable for the death of these people. If Karzai keeps complaining, I say we all pack up and go home.
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SuperLib
So you also think Obama is making a mistake and you don't support him?
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