U.S. military: No. 2 al-Qaida in Iraq leader killed

Thursday 16th October, 06:10 AM JST

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CavemanLawyer at 03:49 PM JST - 16th October

the US should have targeted the hearts and minds of the Iraqi population from the get-go.

If that is in the context of no military action, I agree. Iraq should not have been invaded.

But the defeatist Left just comes with the usual snark

It beats the "We can defeat them all!/ Bring it on!" mentality any day. Had the focus remained on al-Quaida, this guy probably would have been killed or captured a long time ago, and we would probably have bin Laden to boot. But no no. We just had to make up stuff about WMD in Iraq as an excuse to invade despite no ties to al-Quaida or 9/11. --Cirroc
SezWho2 at 04:06 PM JST - 16th October

If there were no defeatest Left the gung-ho Right would find it necessary to invent one. And maybe it did.
SuperLib at 04:11 PM JST - 16th October

Is it just me? I imagine ordinary folks hear news of this monster's death and they cheer.

I think some people are so angry about the invasion overall that they won't allow themselves to cheer even if the news is good. All information must be negative all the time without exception.
CavemanLawyer at 04:52 PM JST - 16th October

I think some people are so angry about the invasion overall that they won't allow themselves to cheer even if the news is good. All information must be negative all the time without exception.

A step forward is great. But some can't let go of the two steps back. I cannot fault the right for cheering the step forward. Neither can I fault the left for clearly remembering the two steps back. --Cirroc
coulrophobic at 05:38 PM JST - 16th October

"We just had to make up stuff about WMD in Iraq as an excuse to invade despite no ties to al-Quaida or 9/11."

Well then, counselor, maybe you can tell us why Bush supposedly 'made up stuff about WMDs'.

You know - motive.

What was it?
WilliB at 06:08 PM JST - 16th October

Both the political left and right in the West are ignoring the real problem. While they keep going at each other (like here), political islam works steadily, determinedly, and uncompromisingly towards its long-term goal. It is quite bizarre to watch this self-flagellation.
SezWho2 at 07:51 PM JST - 16th October

coulrophobic,

I think that question has already been answered. Stuff was made up with the purpose of invading Iraq. The purpose in invading Iraq was to remake the Islamic world so that it would not be a threat to the freedoms which the terrorists supposedly envy.
coulrophobic at 08:21 PM JST - 16th October

sezwho,

"Stuff was made up with the purpose of invading Iraq."

Sorry. I need something a bit more specific than 'stuff'.

"The purpose in invading Iraq was to remake the Islamic world so that it would not be a threat to the freedoms which the terrorists supposedly envy."

The entire Islamic world? Interesting. I think the Arabs of the ME account for about 20 percent of the entire ummah.

I don't recall Bush or any politicians saying that the likes of those who carried out 9-11 envy our freedoms, I recall them saying that Islamic supremacists hate our freedoms.
SezWho2 at 08:48 PM JST - 16th October

coulrophobic,

Nonsense. Your question:

...maybe you can tell us why Bush supposedly 'made up stuff about WMDs'.

You know - motive.

What was it?

My answer:

Stuff was made up with the purpose of invading Iraq. The purpose in invading Iraq was to remake the Islamic world so that it would not be a threat to the freedoms which the terrorists supposedly envy.

Your question was about motive, not about "stuff". And if you want to use the word "hate" instead of "envy", that's fine with me. I wasn't quoting.
Madverts at 08:54 PM JST - 16th October

"I think some people are so angry about the invasion overall that they won't allow themselves to cheer even if the news is good. All information must be negative all the time without exception."

Of course there are people like this, but they're no different than their counterparts that claim Iraq is some sort of a success story. I have yet to see you critisize these imbeciles on JT despite years and years of your documented attacks on the others here.

You must understand one day, that to those that opposed this for humanitarian reasons after the hundreds of thousands of corpses it has produced, or the slide towards Islamic fundemantalism and fear and loathing of the West since the invasion in the area - tends to outweigh what the US military claims to be the death of yet another second in command of al-Qaida in Iraq.

Al-Qaida in Iraq that didn't actually exist in Iraq, of course, until Bush's minions allowed them to take root there that is.
timorborder at 09:14 PM JST - 16th October

Anyone with a minimum understanding of modern Iraqi history would appreciate that before Bush kicked out Saddam (the locus of power in the country), Iraq was one of the more secular states in the region. Indeed, there used to be a joke in Bagdhad about Saddam in the Iran-Iraq War. The punchline of the joke was that Saddam only tended to "get religion" when he started losing in that conflict.

To put this in another way, Saddam feared muslim fundamentalism just as much as the West still does. He saw the power of the mosques as a potential rival to his own despotism. As such, it could be argued that by removing Saddam (and not just marginalizing him), the coalition actually released forces that saw the radicals move in. Moreover, it has to be appreciated that many of the radicals in Iraq (AQ) are foreign nationals who are bringing anarchy to the country under the guise of muslim fundamentalism. Furthermore, it is important to distinguish between the AQ and Iraq's homegrown nutjobs - certain Sunni and Shiite groups.
adaydream at 09:59 PM JST - 16th October

coulrophobic - Well then, counselor, maybe you can tell us why Bush supposedly 'made up stuff about WMDs'.

geoege bush wanted to be the war president.

george bush wanted to complete the job that many warmongers wanted. (his supporters)

george bush wanted to build a legacy besides the one his grandfather left.

george bush's vice president wanted to make billions on "no bid" contracts for Haliburton.

george bush wanted to send $Billions to his supporters who run the US war machine.

george bush was looking for a way to attack Iraq and when the Taliban attacked us, he went straight toward Iraq.

george bush deserted the war in Afghanistan for the war in Iraq.

he made up stuff because there wasn't real evidence to support his goal to attack Iraq, so he had to made up lies, fabricated evidence and out a CIA agent to get into Iraq.

I'm sure that I can come up with more reasons why george bush attacked Iraq, but it wasn't for freedom or to stop Al-Quaeda.

Moderator: Readers, please stop rehashing tired old arguments about WMDs and Saddam. They are not relevant to this discussion. Focus your comments on the current and future situations in Iraq.
adaydream at 12:10 AM JST - 17th October

WilliB - I quess I'll quit repeating these things.....never.

My candidate will be bringing the troops out of Iraq in a precise and structured way, ensuring protection of our troops and equipment. The Iraqis will be required to take over their country and do their own policing.

Barack will send more troops to finally finish the job in Afghanistan. We will do the job we were supposed to do. We will do the job that george bush failed to do. We will send in the troops required to finish this war.

The majority of the people of this nation want the troops out of Iraq and Barack will do that. They also want the war in Afghanistan finished. They want their troops/family members home and not fighting a war forever.

It is unbelieveable that we're still in these wars after all these years. It is unbelievable that the greatest military force on the face of the earth is still involved in wars against enemies that are so ill equipped and numbers way below ours.

And the republicans want to stay involved in war.......forever. < :-)
SuperLib at 04:55 AM JST - 17th October

Like I said, some people are against the invasion and any positive news is considered a threat to them that needs to be immediately muted. If anything that point has been reinforced by the posts following mine.

Bush sat there and told us that things were getting better when they were falling apart. Now the opposite side of the radical spectrum is here to tell us that things are falling apart as they are getting better. You have Bush on the right, and the radical liberals on the left. When you're in the middle it's hard to tell them apart, ne?
SezWho2 at 10:53 PM JST - 17th October

I don't think that people are saying that things are falling apart as they are getting better. I think that people are saying that they aren't getting better to the degree that is claimed.