U.S. public sees Obama as agent of change, McCain as just old: poll

Tuesday 08th July, 06:58 AM JST

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RedMeatKoolAid at 01:37 PM JST - 8th July

"I'm glad that Obama understands economics and will be in office this next term."

This is like saying 'I understand economics myself and approve of my candidate's economic plan.'

So tell us, A.D.D., just what is Obama's plan?
adaydream at 01:54 PM JST - 8th July

Actually RedMeatKoolAid, stick around tomorrow. Barack is going to spell it out to you. I don't agree with another stimulus package. But we'll see what he has to say.

I don't agree with everything he wants to do, but at least he understands economics.

Hey I only repeated John McCain when he said he didn't know anything about economics. < :-)
SezWho2 at 03:08 PM JST - 8th July

SuperLib,

One could say that nearly all your comments are anti-poster and not pro-position. But what would be the point?

It seems to me that we live in a political culture where people vote against candidates more than they vote for them. Reasons scarcely matter. Some people vote against a person because that person is a Democrat, or a woman, or black or old or a Republican. And don't even get me started on the vast majority of voters who won't even consider what a candidate is saying because the candidate is a (gasp!) socialist.

My personal view about this election was that I was somewhat excited because I thought Obama was offering something I could actually vote for. Now, with his "repositioning" or whatever, I tend to believe that Obama will bring about incremental improvement at best and that those changes are as likely to be wiped out with a counterswing to someone more in the Bush mold as they are to endure. (Yes, I view Bush as a force for negative change.) So, I'm back to choosing between the lesser of two evils, a choice that essentially involves a negative vote--unless, of course, it is possible to think that we can positively embrace a negative option.

None of this is to say that someone should not offer arguments in favor of the lesser evil. But it is to ask why they should not offer arguments against the greater one.
Jaebez1975 at 04:08 PM JST - 8th July

OK Obama's young and charismatic being paralleled to the likes of JFK, but can he really make a change? The real question, however: does a dominant two-party system eliminate the viability of independent candidates? Look at the choices, does America really want what is available? However, what one promises to do to get to the White House, and what one can do when he is elected are two different bowls of wax. Still, "it's the economy stupid!" So where are those economic platforms that will matter to the voter?
SuperLib at 06:08 PM JST - 8th July

Sez....

Sushi's comment:

"I find it interesting how the McCain "supporters" seem to say very little or nothing in support of their man, but they'll bash Obama until they are blue in the face."

My response:

"Nearly all of your comments are anti-McCain and very rarely pro-Obama."

Sushi made an accusation and I commented that his own habits are similar to the accusation he's made about others. I suppose the only thing left is to ask you what your point is.
Madverts at 06:39 PM JST - 8th July

yawn

Can't they move the elections forward, like to next week. I'm thoroughly bored, especially as this one's a forgone conclusion.
Betzee at 07:04 PM JST - 8th July

When you have zero accomplishments "change" is all you can pretend to offer.

Nah, you can claim to be a "compassionate conservative." It you have a skimpy record of public service, well there's nothing your opponent can cite to suggest otherwise.
skipthesong at 08:13 PM JST - 8th July

I find it interesting how the McCain "supporters" seem to say very little or nothing in support of their man, but they'll bash Obama until they are blue in the face."

By whom are you calling a McCain supporter? There are only two candidates and granted Obama seems better than McCain, but its not really that much of a match now is it? Can you line by line list the difference between the two?

However, in my eyes, voting for either one brings no change.
RedMeatKoolAid at 08:23 PM JST - 8th July

So why can't Obama find a running mate?
RedMeatKoolAid at 08:34 PM JST - 8th July

Obama's conspicuously meager record of actual achievement in "public service" reviewed less than favorably - and by the NY TImes of all sources.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/07/us/politics/07community.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
Betzee at 08:56 PM JST - 8th July

RedMeat, In fact a Democrat letter writer to the NYT's, who actually read the article you linked, makes a far better anti-Obama case than you do (maybe if SuperLib nudged you relentlessly the way he does Sushi you might lift the quality of your posts):

What surprised me most during the primaries was the group euphoria among the media and many Democrats for his candidacy. Most of these people were taken in by his soaring rhetoric and lofty proposals.

But these same people failed to examine his record in Chicago, a city not known for genteel politics or honest politicians. Or perhaps they chose to ignore it. If they had bothered to look, they would have found a crafty politician who made calculating choices from the very beginning.

Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton has asked her supporters to endorse Mr. Obama. Although I cannot vote for John McCain, neither can I cast my vote for Senator Obama. He is a roll of the dice, and I’m not a gambler.

Fair enough, we rolled the dice on GWB and his claims to be a "compassionate conservative" who would "change the tone in Washington" as evidenced by his seeking bipartisan support while Gov of Texas. It's now difficult to find anyone who supports him.

Yet the Obama campaign may be taking a page from GWB's successful campaigns where it was claimed by one operative "we make our own reality."
SezWho2 at 10:19 PM JST - 8th July

SuperLib,

I think you'll find the point in the first paragraph of my post. It's really short so no digging is required.

I don't know, but I just don't think the he-did-it-so-so-can-I justification is a contribution unless you also go on to add something of a constructive nature. Otherwise it seems to me that we are just standing toe to toe and giving blow for blow until there's a last man standing.

If you would like for me to say that what I said of you applies with equal force to SushiSake3's post here, I hereby do so with the following reservation: I am not as familiar with his posts as I am with yours. I almost always read your posts wherever I see them and I have a zone of comfort with the assertion I made regarding them. I cannot say the same of his, which I often read but not with the regularity with which I read yours.

Despite my disenchantment with Obama, I think it is in this area in which he still has some appeal. He's not above attacking people, but it's very clear (at least to me it is) that he is not entirely comfortable in that role and that after the attack he offers a personal vision which people can understand as positive and constructive, even if it is a little vague.
peacetoismailha at 10:44 PM JST - 8th July

Mc Cain does not want change. They enjoy failure. Their supporters like this current trend and wanto to keep sinking further down the gutter.
Sarge at 10:51 PM JST - 8th July

peacetoismailha - The current trend is reduced levels of violence and greater capability in the Iraqi security forces. Please try to keep up.
peacetoismailha at 02:36 AM JST - 9th July

Please try to wake up. Both the so-called allies and the resistance/terrorists and such as agree that US should leave.