Russia, Georgia head toward war over South Ossetia

Sunday 10th August, 06:50 AM JST

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Triumvere at 11:54 AM JST - 10th August

They are no longer the Soviets...

Are you sure about that?

http://v.youku.com/vshow/idXODA3OTY3Ng==.html
sdf_crew_member at 12:00 PM JST - 10th August

Then why doesn't Russia give independence to North Ossetia? The fact that Ossetains are the largest ethnic group in South Ossetia is irrelevant.

If North Ossetia will someday vote for independence then there will be something to discuss.

Russia is being hypocritical and should not be interfering.

Russia is a good learner and has an excellent teacher...

Georgia has nore more obligation to give independence to the Ossetians as the Russians do. Also, in Abkhazia for example the reason why there are so few Georgians is because they were killed in ethnic cleansing or they are living as refugees in other parts of Georgia. What of their rights?

As I said before - it's a very complicated issue - it's Caucasus! If you'll try to find who started all this mess first you are to delve into the history of the region and you get nothing - dozens ethnic groups, the conflicts throughout all its history.

My opinion - all should drive back, the persons who gave an order to bomb civilians and are responsible for such amount of victims must be prosecuted.
Severinka at 01:13 PM JST - 10th August

Some things are not about oil. South Ossetia fights for its independence for quite a while. The current Georgian policy is beyond any reason. It's amazing how little it is emphasized in the news that GEORGIA ATTACKED FIRST. As of now more than 2000 are dead, 2000 civilians. There are no humanitarian corridors, there is no way for the civilians to leave the area among those skirmishes. The Caucasus is suffering huge losses again. Yet another proof of UN inability to act, same as 10 years ago, 6 years ago...Corruption? How about Security Council? Those who keep referring to USSR, soviets, cold war, etc...Time to get real, the world has moved on way past. There is reality beyond Hollywood flicks like Bourne's and Wilson's.
JoeBigs at 04:07 PM JST - 10th August

Severinka Time to get real, the world has moved on way past.

The world has gotten way past the era of the Soviet Union, but has the current Russian leadership gotten out of the mindset of the old Soviet empire?

They claim that they are there to help the citizens of South Ossetia from the attacking Georgians. Why are they striking civilian targets? All this is is another case of Russia trying to flex it`s so called military muscle.

If the Bush wants to keep what is left of his respectability in the world Bush will force the Russians hand quick. If the US does not do something to help an ally then the Russians will believe they have a green light to attack any one at will.

Time to ax Putin and his plots of rebuilding the old long dead Soviet empire.
SezWho2 at 05:43 PM JST - 10th August

I just wonder how much this has to do with American support for an independent Kosovo. Maybe nothing. But it seems to me that it might be difficult to argue that Georgia had any right to attack a people who have independently declared autonomy. And the Russians may have made a correct political calculation.

I think that the Russian escalation into Georgia is a point of concern, but I seem to recall that, for example, we made an incursion into Iraq when Iraq attempted to annex Kuwait. If you are going to play the war game, you might as well be effective about it and counter attack instead of simply playing defense.

It seems to me it would be wonderful if we didn't have to be involved here. But this is the price we have to pay for attempting to extend our sphere of influence into former Soviet Republics. While what President Bush says is true about extension of the conflict being a dangerous escalation, it seems a bit preachy from a fella who marched into Baghdad from Tora Bora.
SuperLib at 09:06 PM JST - 10th August

I'm with Sez, Sushi, reddragon, and proxy. You can't really form any opinions about the situation without mentioning Iraq.
SezWho2 at 09:17 PM JST - 10th August

SuperLib,

I probably could have formed an opinion without mentioning Iraq. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. I would have stopped after "preachy" if I thought everyone would understand why. But I'm not sure that I would have escaped your bitterness for even alluding to Iraq.

I think the test of whether Iraq is relevant here or not has to be judged on merit. If you don't think that Bush's comment is a little preachy, I'd love to read why, instead of just reading your general complaint.
Nordon at 10:14 PM JST - 10th August

Iraq isn't relevant at all.

This is about former Soviet republics and Russian ambition. This is old school stuff.
Sarge at 10:28 PM JST - 10th August

I wonder how many innocent people have already lost their lives or been maimed and how much property has been destroyed or damaged...
Betzee at 11:00 PM JST - 10th August

SezWho,

If you are going to play the war game, you might as well be effective about it and counter attack instead of simply playing defense.

Ah, but that would require Superlib to deploy intellectual ammunition and he clearly doesn't have any. Hence the reliance on strawmen.

The latest Russian moves fed fears that Moscow was planning an all-out assault on Georgia, a U.S.-backed former Soviet Republic. Moscow brushed aside calls from the Georgian government for a cease-fire, insisting that the troops' mission was to restore calm to South Ossetia. "We are enforcing peace," said Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov,

An extension/escalation of violence is frequently justified in exactly these terms. Nothing new here.
Betzee at 11:20 PM JST - 10th August

But this is the price we have to pay for attempting to extend our sphere of influence into former Soviet Republics.

This is a valid question. Should we be extending, or trying to extend, NATO membership up to Moscow's borders? When the Soviets tried it with the tiny Caribbean island nation of Grenada in 1983, well everyone should remember how that played out...
Eulji_Mundeok at 12:18 AM JST - 11th August

Should we be extending, or trying to extend, NATO membership up to Moscow's borders?

We certainly should be doing that now. This is what happens when we don't.

When the Soviets tried it with the tiny Caribbean island nation of Grenada in 1983, well everyone should remember how that played out...

. . . or when the Germans tried it with the tiny, insignificant Polish town of Danzig in 1939, well, everyone should remember how that played out . . .

. . . or especially when China tried it with Vietnam in 1979, well, everyone should remember how that played out . . .
Betzee at 02:31 AM JST - 11th August

. . . or especially when China tried it with Vietnam in 1979, well, everyone should remember how that played out . . .

Yeah, the PLA got their butts kicked. The Chinese were ticked the Vietnamese had the temerity to liberate the Cambodians from the Pol Pot regime (which China, along with the US, backed). The Chinese learned a lesson from their effort to "teach the Vietnamese a lesson:" you gotta have a modern military to be a regional hegemon.

SezWho summed it up best: I'm not so sure that Georgia should continue to seek an American alliance and I'm not so sure that we should have been so quick to form one. In so doing we have courted trouble. Unless we are willing to rush to the aid of an ally, a continued conflict will make us look weaker--if not make us actually weaker.

Indeed. A more experienced leader than GWB would have seen the problem this posed. As it stands, the airport highway bearing his name has been bombed.
JoeBigs at 09:42 PM JST - 13th August

George Bush bombed.....Oh the humanity!

Now back to our program....

If your willing to call a country an ally and that country is one of the WILLING. You better be ready to help them when they are attacked.

But I hate to say this, I do not see Bush as the kind of President that can get the job done.

If we had a President that was willing and able to handle this then it would have been handled already. But as we see every day he stalls is another day that our ally suffers.
JoeBigs at 12:00 PM JST - 14th August

Eulji_Mundeok at 12:18 AM JST - 11th August . . . or when the Germans tried it with the tiny, insignificant Polish town of Danzig in 1939, well, everyone should remember how that played out . . .

Dare we forget that Poland was invaded by not one nation but by two. One of course was Nazi Germany and the other? Well some folks like to omit that fact that the Soviet Union/Russia was the other invader.

If we do not look to the past we will never know what lays in the future. Russia back then wanted an empire then. Today is no different, the name may have changed but the ambition is still burning hot. Russia and Putin want the Soviet Empire back together and if they are not stopped now. Well remember what the world was like under the threat of the RED menace?

Russia and Putin must be stopped before his plan some to pass.

. . . or especially when China tried it with Vietnam in 1979, well, everyone should remember how that played out . . .

Yes they were ready for War and had support. The US needs to support Georgia and to hell with Russian complaints.