U.S. wants Canada to stay in Afghanistan
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0
whiskeysour
Wow!!!! Hillary needs to go to Canada and praise them for Canada's support. It was America's war. I hope America offers Canada something in return.
Does anybody know who are they fighting in afganistan ? Maybe it's for oil ?
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adaydream
Right now they'll do most anything to keep coalition forces in Afghanistan. We need the help. < :-)
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tkoind2
"Does anybody know who are they fighting in afganistan ? Maybe it's for oil ?"
It is a complex question. Is it for oil or stategic placement of US forces. Probably so. But there is a more immediate consideration. The initial war was in retaliation for 911, had it been properly waged, the Taliban would not have made a come back and Afghans may be on the road to building a nation. But Bush had other, less sensible priorities in Iraq. Which leaves us where we are today.
Why fight now? Because the Taliban insurgency threatens not only Afghanistan but Pakistan's stability. A nuclear armed Pakistan can never be allowed to have its weapons fall under Taliban or any other unknown control. India won't allow this, the US, Europe and other nations won't allow it. So what is the answer?
Simply this. The Taliban have to be soundly defeated or reintegrated into mainstream politics in both countries. The solution is not so simple and continues to ellude those trying to solve this problem. But I can tell you this much with certainty, as long as there is a risk of Pakistani instability, the Afghan war will not end. Forget Bin Laden, forget the Taliban in Afghanistan, it is more about regional stability now.
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brotokyo
tk: "Is it for oil or stategic placement of US forces. Probably so."
Guess you're not a lone in this thinking.
http://members.localnet.com/~jeflan/jfafghanpipe.htm
0
SushiSake3
A U.S. administration that is finally taking this war and U.S.troops' lives seriously.
We haven't seen this since the war began.
Here goes another GOP campaign plank down the toilet.
0
SushiSake3
Conservatives are finding themselves in a very difficult position. Do they - for the first time ever - support the troops and risk being seen tacitly supporting the strategy of a Democratic president?
Or will they be true to themselves, follow party lines and continue slamming this Democrat-led war and by default the troops who are dying to defend their freedoms?
It shouldn't be a difficult decision but I've got full confidence conservatives will again make the wrong one.
0
PeaceWarrior
It's also true that if Canada keeps some of its troops there, they'll also have to keep the infrastructure that other international soldiers use on a daily basis, like their gym, and Tim Horton!!! But I don't think they will keep anyone there. Fatigue is a real problem for men and equipment and it will take a few years for the Canadian army to get back to their usual level of readiness. They took care of their NATO obligations... Let them go home and enjoy peace.
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SenatorAcorn
re "Conservatives are finding themselves in a very difficult position. Do they - for the first time ever - support the troops and risk being seen tacitly supporting the strategy of a Democratic president?"
I reckon Canadian conservatives want victory in Afghanistan as ardently as American conservatives do. Good on Canada.
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GJDailleult
SenatorAcorn reckons wrong. Apparently he doesn't know that the guy who said Canada does not have the appetite to keep soldiers in Afghanistan longer is a Canadian conservative.
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SushiSake3
The problem for U.S. conservatives is that they strongly supported an administration that treated the Afghanistan war - and U.S. forces lives - as a mere afterthought to the wrongheaded war in Iraq. Secretary Clinton shouldn't be in Canada asking for continued support. Had the previous GOP administration taken the conflict seriously, the Taliban would have been booted out years ago. Every extra U.S. death or injury is a damning indictment on GOP policy and conservative support.
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SenatorAcorn
re Secretary Clinton shouldn't be in Canada asking for continued support.
I agree. Canada's support should be unconditional.
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sf2k
we said no about a dozen times now, over then last year or two more so. A few more times and maybe it'll dawn on the Americans we really are pulling out.
It's a minority Parliament, so Afghanistan is an election issue if the current government run on extending the war. Thus that would fail. There is no voter appetite to continue this war when we are not effecting change. Also the government is involved in a detainee execution scandal so the faster we're out the more they can cover up.
Anyway, no doubt Americans will forget Canada was even there and will find more trade or border torments for us to screed on about. Where is your support for Canadian Arctic Sovereignty? We supported you, where is your support America? Figures...
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sf2k
which would be the Prime Minister Stephen Harper, theo-conservative more Bush than Bush. Both Bush and Ann Coulter have visited his riding in Calgary for speeches while either not in the rest of Canada. Ann C tried recently in Ottawa but ran away after thousands rallied in a peaceful protest (Canadians do that).
If Harper could stay he would, but even this issue is too far gone for him to manipulate
0
Noliving
Lol are you kidding me, for conservatives in the USA it is a very easy position not difficult, when Obama wanted to send more troops they were his biggest backers, they were the ones making the most noise to rally congress to give what obama wants on Afghanistan. If anyone is in a difficult position in the US it is the democrats considering most of them are supposedly "anti-war".
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SushiSake3
SenatorAcorn, you think Canadian support should be unconditional? You should stop and start to think. The U.S. attacked Afghanistan in retaliation for AQ attacks in New York. I didn't know NY was in Canada....
0
Noliving
Does anybody know who are they fighting in afganistan ? Maybe it's for oil ?
Most likely not as the potential "profit" to make from that pipeline isn't enough to cover the cost of the war. The truth of the matter is that this war just like the Iraq war wasn't really about oil, because if it was they would have withdrawn long ago after the costs of the war exceeded what ever potential profit they would have gotten from the oil.
At the very least people just need to accept that the war in Afghanistan isn't over oil or that pipeline.
0
Branded
sushisake3; !SenatorAcorn, you think Canadian support should be unconditional? You should stop and start to think. The U.S. attacked Afghanistan in retaliation for AQ attacks in New York. I didn't know NY was in Canada...."
Then you probably also didn't know that 24 Canadian citizens were killed on 9-11 in NY !
0
bicultural
I didn't know that Canada had more than 2000 soldiers.
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GJDailleult
Maybe Clinton should get Ann Coulter to go back up north and insult people some more. That would learn 'em real good and put them uppity Canadians in their place.
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paulinusa
I seem to remember terrorism arrests in Canada, so you can't say the Canadians haven't had some of the same issues as U.S.,England,Australia, Spain(unfortunately the list goes on and on)
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skipbeat
The U.S. can't lose any more allies in this war.
As long as the Taliban and Al Qaeda are around, this war is going to go on forever which will leave the rest of the world to look over their shoulder. The greatest factor in all this is the ideology that is being taught to young Afghans, Taliban, and Al Qaeda to dislike the West. That is the challenge of this war. Using manpower (military) is not going to make much of a difference except it is only going to cause more hatred for the West.
"The pen is mightier than the sword"
0
sf2k
using the military in a region where they are not wanted against a culture that doesn't want to change just means a waste of time. Once the military leaves it's back to business as stone age usual.
Go to Haiti, at least the Canadians will be wanted there, speak French, and it would rebuild a nation that wants to be rebuilt. That nation would be relatively local, and Canadians would help since our constitution was used as their template and we have the largest expat Haitian community. We have a history of helping. Anyone can fire a gun, but it's in Haiti that Canada can really perform.
Afghanistan is a no-win situation, and hasn't been for literally centuries of conflict.
Let it go.
0
sf2k
has been rather
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sf2k
Please no!! You can keep her. If she comes back we might not be so polite. We might get all miffed.
Send her to Afghanistan, you have no idea how annoying she is. She could save the war
0
roomtemperature
"Then you probably also didn't know that 24 Canadian citizens were killed on 9-11 in NY !"
Then you probably also didn't know that 140 Canadians were killed in Afghanistan in a war they didn't start.
0
HeyLars
Do you have a degree? In what? I am going to guess its not economics, finance or accounting. What you don't seem to realize is that the people who are paying for the war are NOT the same people who will receive the paycheck from the pipeline! The Ameican taxpayer pays for the war. The profits for munitions sales and any oil pipeline all go to companies, mostly to the CEOs and preferred stock holders.
Not saying it is all about the pipeline, but what you submitted as proof that it isn't is extremely naive.
0
SenatorAcorn
If Ann Coulter terrifies the rest of Canada the way she obviously does GJDailleult, their armed forces will soon be wearing skirts. That would really infuriate the Taliban.Its best they pull out.
0
GJDailleult
Who's terrified? I'm with sf2k, send her to Afghanistan, the Taliban would be desperate to get rid off her. I'm just pointing out that when you go around insulting people (and it is not just her), don't be surprised when they don't feel like supporting you anymore. Have your cake or eat it. Don't try to have both.
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gforce
Canada was impacted like just about every other by 9/11. We stepped in and supported throughout even when Afghanistan stopped being the priority and we lost boys to friendly fire.. I don't believe anything involving war should be unconditional. So we need to start thinking about bringing these guys home. If any of you have every drove on the Highway of Heroes when one of our fallen comes back, I doubt you would disagree.
0
sailwind
Just a small point of order that has to be made. After 9/11 NATO's charter was invoked for the first time. An attack on one NATO member is an attack on all NATO members. All NATO members were obligated to provide Military support to the U.S and have been since this whole war got underway.
Not to decry Canada's efforts in the least. Just need to point out that this an obligation to be filled in the first place by her.
Now what kind of support is a different story. Some Nations opted for more of a logistical role and no Combat troops. Some nations offered police type training and such services to their Afghan counterparts as their contribution to fullfill their obligation.
Canada, God Bless her offered her combat troops straight up. This American is damn grateful for that. For what it is worth I appreciate the honor, courage and sacrifice of my Canadian brethren both in Arms and in civilian support all these years.
If Canada now feels her role will change now to a more background type of support, there will be no complaint from this American. She has earned that in my opinion and I wish her well in whatever decision she makes as a Nation and a people in the future with her Afghan policy from this point forward.
Thank You Canada and I deeply honor your Fallen.
Very Respectfully
Sailwind
0
ElJeffeEnJapon
Well versed Sailwind.
0
Branded
roomtemperature;
"Then you probably also didn't know that 140 Canadians were killed in Afghanistan in a war they didn't start."
Umm, got a calendar ? I do believe Sept. 11 2001 was months and months before any Canadian soldier was dispatched to Afghanistan. Please don't disrespect the soldiers that have lost their lives by insinuating such.
"Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper has said Canada does not have the appetite to keep soldiers in Afghanistan longer."
But Canada does have the appetite for a terror free country- as witnessed by nationwide media reports everytime a cell or activists are rounded up. Canadians under Harper's rule will eventually have to face the reality of fighting terrorism at the heart of the problem- in the ME, or at home on Canadian soil, like Toronto- I imagine his current "cut and run" ideology would have American's less likely to support the latter as Canada would be left to "fend for itself", much like Mexico is trying with it's war on drugs- what a failure that has been- and "no" it hasn't spilled over into the US like many have predicted. Sorry, but the lets "fend for itself" option seems doomed to cost lives, many more than the 140 over years and years. Are Canadians prepared for such a possibility ? I doubt it.
0
sf2k
I think on paper the Americans For A New Century were correct in thinking because Afghanistan is between China and Iraq that it was of strategic importance. This is why Af has been invaded countless times over the last 100 years. But that's correct only on paper.
Instead the reality on the ground is that it is too mountainous, too porous a border, too militant a people, and has never worked out for any invader trader or country.
Thinking any pipeline between China and Iraq was going to be done was never reality and thus there is no reason to continue being there. Forcing a people to be Western when they will never be isn't going to work.
If you wanted Osama Bin Laden, try Pakistan. Pakistan is actually interested in fighting militants. That would have been helpful.
Many countries around the world deserve to be free. If America was really interested they would do something within their own hemisphere. Don't our Central and South American neighbours deserve to be free? But most of those countries would be social democratic so they are ignored, America too afraid of government. Too bad really considering the terrible lives of people in Guatemala, Mexico now, and even rebuilding of Haiti.
Canada has always benefited by being America's neighbour, trade and lifestyle are decidedly North American. But our outlook is different, and we are finished with wargames in Afghanistan and are returning to our peacekeeping ways. We may return as rebuilders if invited. But its a right-wing Canada that is really not who we are and when we return some day the world will be happier. Lately I'm not proud of my government, not because I fear it or because of size, but because of missed opportunities to engage the world on important issues.
Thanks Sailwind for those comments. Proof once again that Americans individually can be reflective of all the best ideals even if our respective countries fail us from time to time. If we see the people behind the country then we are both the better for it.
0
sf2k
Where Canada can be a friend to the US is in tempering vengeance with instead desired outcome and having that conversation. While we had that ourselves in not invading Iraq, we didn't engage the Americans because no one wanted to get in their way.
I think that after this experience, and watching Americans lie to themselves and not put those liers in jail, my hope is that Canadians and Brits and others around the world will not be so standoffish towards foreign policies that are clearly in error and do not foster realistic improvements.
There were other choices and those should have been more emphasised. We are a world of nations, and if we can temper the worst traits among ourselves, then that is the best outcome.
0
guest
Well you will certainly have plenty of extra wood, for the rebuilding, cause America wont be buying it from you.
0
sf2k
guest
what are you talking about?
0
roomtemperature
"Umm, got a calendar ? I do believe Sept. 11 2001 was months and months before any Canadian soldier was dispatched to Afghanistan. Please don't disrespect the soldiers that have lost their lives by insinuating such."
Yes, I have a calendar.
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