What climate change? Meltdown trumps fears at APEC
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36 Comments
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hereandthere
the only "jobs" created will be more wind bags harping on anti-scientific theories of "man made" global warming.
Humanism run amok.
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buddha4brains
Yeah, we all know that humans did not cause acid rain, ground water contaminations, Chinese carp infestations, farm land salinations, food contaminations, and other so-called spoilations of the environment. We as a species have no effect on our environment. We are not responsible for global warming or any other phenomena that casts a negative light on human activity.
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SushiSake3
I love it when the global warming deniers start claiming someone or some "corporation" are making money bigtime off climate change "paranoia."
But they can never name who they are referring to. :-)
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bushlover
Buddah? You're right mate!! Let's just all take the last big sleep. Someone mix up the Kool-Aide please. Buddah you go first.
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JOKERXJOKER
ohhhh..the sky is falling down...run...run..hahaha (This time there is no where to run..little human..you create it you face it..take it like a man/ape ?)
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bushlover
Global Warming Happens!!
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smithinjapan
Ah, gotta love the people who deny global warming.
"Yesterday it snowed.... A WEEK EARLY! Therefore global warming is a myth!"
Idiots. It'll be funny to hear them explain to their grandkids, if we survive that long as a race, how 'it's not THEIR fault! How could they have possibly known' their grandkids wouldn't be able to play outside, feel the rain on their faces, or breath natural air!? There was never any indication that it was man-made, right?
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thepro
I just ignore the deniers as I would any people that believe there is a super secret organization controlling the world.
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powderfinger
Global warming? Show me the proof.
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SushiSake3
powderfinger - heh, why?
Does you think your beoming enlightened about the reality of climate change is somehow going to make a difference??
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SushiSake3
I have already mentioned this, but why is it that many of the same people who bought GWB's WMD lies also deny climate change?
Fool me once......but TWICE???
Case in point - Sarge is also one of the rapidly shrinking pool of Climate Change Deniers, and he totally bought into GWB's lies about the WMD being north south east west of Tikrit, or somewhere. :-)
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powderfinger
The challenge still stands, sushisake3.
Anthropogenic "Global Warming"
Show.me.the.proof.
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SushiSake3
powderfinger - 'Show.me.the.proof.'
I would, if I could be bothered, but what's the point?
It's like being asked to provide evidence that the sun is 'hot,' or that Sarah Palin is an idiot.
In both cases, where do you start?? :-)
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omarbabilon
A good chance to try peruvian food and visit Macchu Picchu.
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powderfinger
"I would, if I could be bothered, but what's the point?"
IOW, you have nothing to offer but your blind faith in clearly irrational tenets which are central to your 'progressive' groupthink politics.
So much for 'debate' and 'argument.'
You guys are as quaint and silly as scientologists.
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adaydream
The problem is that countries are so broke that their financial situation overshadows the enviroment, in the short term. < :-)
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SushiSake3
powderfinger - 'So much for 'debate' and 'argument.'
So much for researching and looking things up.
www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/17/tech/cnettechnews/main4454448.shtml
You might have a point if you pulled your head out of the sand and actually spent some time looking up information about climate change instead of embracing the misinformed ideas of other Climate Change Deniers and believing whatever you are told.
www.cyberwest.com/climate/waterton-glacier-international-park.shtml
I would like to offer some evidence
www.worldviewofglobalwarming.org/pages/temperate-zone.html
of the effects of climate change,
www.worldviewofglobalwarming.org/pages/alaska.html
but it gets a little tedious when there is so much of it
www.worldviewofglobalwarming.org/pages/alaska.html
What's a man to do? - Bury his head in the sand?
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taiko666
powderfinger: you seem to be the sort of person who needs to be spoon-fed. Man-made climate change is a theory based on observations; namely the rise in temperatures during the last 150 years and the correspondingly large amounts of 'greenhouse gasses' produced by man duing that time. The theory state how former can be caused by the latter, and goes on to list other consequences (eg rising sea levels.) To date the theory has been borne out (melting polar ice caps etc.) It remains a theory; an extremely convincing theory, but a theory nontheless. The proof you obviously need before you consider taking any action can only come when it's too late. Reminds me off when people were saying 'SHOW ME THE PROOF!" during the early years of BSE awareness (I expect you'd have been one of those people.) Of course the proof turned out to be a massive epidemic and perhaps over half the UK population exposed to a deadly prion infection.
You shouldn't discount an extremely convincing theory for lack of 'proof'. The entire basis of modern chemisty is based on a theory that's not yet proved.
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powderfinger
Great stuff, sushisake3. Real convincing:
"At this time, neither NASA nor the National Snow and Ice Data Center have made suggestions as to the possible cause for the change. A thorough analysis of the data is scheduled to be released the first week of October, according to NASA."
"worldviewofglobalwarming.org"? LOL. It's one guy, his camera and a list of 'supporters' engaged in an overtly political project sponsored by a bunch of Lefty photographers at 'Blue Earth Alliance' laboring under the delusion that with their photographs they can change the minds of millions. I have seen personal blogs that are more professional-looking.
Until then I say we try the 'follow the money' line of investigation Lefties insist is the best way to determine where the truth might be found:
"...proponents of MMGW [ man made global warming ] have been funded over the past decade to the tune of $50 BILLION whereas the sceptics have received a meagre $19 MILLION. In other words, MMGW is a giant cash cow for scientific researchers, while those who refuse to latch onto the poisoned udder find they risk professional suicide. Even so, the number of scientists now ‘coming out’ to declare that MMGW is a monumental fraud is growing by the day."
http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/550481/the-mammoth-global-warming-scam.thtml
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SushiSake3
powderfinger - Oh, and I forgot to mention - I met the Prime Minister and Foreign Minister of Tuvalu earlier this year in Tokyo - they had come to Japan to look for funding to help their islanders mitigate the effects caused by their island sinking.
But you'll still say 'Show me the proof!'
It's kinda cute. :-)
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skipthesong
sushi,
I don't think people are denying global warming the way you are putting it. I do however believe there are those that go with the Gore thought 100% and there is quite a bit info out that refutes his findings.
Of course, as I had explained before, I would hope that everyone buys into his findings and the sooner the better - for me at least.
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powderfinger
"Oh, and I forgot to mention - I met the Prime Minister and Foreign Minister of Tuvalu earlier this year in Tokyo - they had come to Japan to look for funding to help their islanders mitigate the effects caused by their island sinking."
Tuvalu, eh?I can go one better. It were just last week and I was at my local tachinomi and I met several guys from NASA!, astronauts they said they were, been to the moon an everthing. And they told me just the darndest news - seems old Sol is at a point in his cycle where he is emitting more heat than ever. One of 'em, hearing me translate in my near flawless J-speak for the benefit of one of the girls behind the counter, thought I was credulous enough to actually believe in MMGW, and he beat me round the head with a Birtish newspaper -
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/11/16/do1610.xml
I called for another beer.
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mikihouse
global warming? man-made? duh! Have anybody studied the effect of sunburst and exploding nova on the effect on tiny planets like the earth? As usual, man playing gods. These naysayers can't even accurately predict the weather in one day and then claim they can predict the values in 1000 years...get a l ife
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SushiSake3
powderfinger - 'I called for another beer.'
Were the first 10 not enough? :-)
You still have no case to refute the fact that the effects of climate change are as real as your ignorance of the issue. :-)
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nandakandamanda
Back to the article at the top of the page for a quick second, you will notice that it says 'global warming' at the beginning without specifically mentioning the causes.
Thus, countries like Tuvalu will increasingly find their waters rising, and we will increasingly need to think about how to help such low-lying areas and their people.
If the cause is man-made, then that is one angle to attack.
If the cause is increased sun activity gradually releasing CO2 long-term from the oceans, then we will need to consider how to live/ride with that. Perhaps we need to address both sides.
Meanwhile, this year has been exceptionally cold so far...
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hereandthere
climate changes happens (warming and cooling), that is a scientific fact, backed-up by billions of years of history.
human activity influencing global climate change through CO2 output is just not scientifically possible, no matter how hard we try.
we are not significant enough.
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SushiSake3
hereandthere - "human activity influencing global climate change through CO2 output is just not scientifically possible."
LOL!! That would be even funnier if you were serious. :-)
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thepro
'I won't believe climate change until I'm on fire! Prove that I'm on fire!'
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majimeaussie
We need more pirates....
Sushi, as others have stated I understand that almost all scientists agree that the planet has been getting warmer. The question comes about as to what is causing this warming. There are many theories. Some such as the amount of solar output are natural issues, some such as CO2 are possibly man made (it is also argued by some scientists that the increase in CO2 is the result of the warming, not the cause of it). At this stage there is no definitive proof of the causes.
Do I think nothing should be done because it is not proven. No I don't. I believe it makes sense to take action already in case it is man made. I disagree with people stridently saying that one idea is correct (when it hasn't been proven) and that others therefor aren't worthy of consideration.
It is very easy to use analysis to make a theory meet past data. The case for MMGW is at this stage. It may prove to be correct (there is a lot of circumstantial information that indicates it may) or it may not be correct. For example, there are thousands of different financial models that can predict past financial problems, but they don't seem to do as well predicting them.
One of my favourite graphs is the graph of the number of pirates vs world temperatures. There is a very good inverse relationship. Based on this we need more pirates in the world. Maybe this is why the world temperature dropped recently with the increase in pirates in Somalia.
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smithinjapan
sushi: "You still have no case to refute the fact that the effects of climate change are as real as your ignorance of the issue. :-)"
Oh, now you're just being unfair to powderfinger! how can he possibly refute his ignorance? Doesn't his ignorance contradict his ability to be able to refute it?
Anyway, I do agree with you that he should have stopped the Thanksgiving drinking after the first 10.
It is also very fun to watch all the people who so strongly insisted that bush was right to attack Iraq and that there were WMDs come on here and insist that global warming is wrong despite all the evidence to the contrary. Sadly, like with the WMDs, when it's too late they'll still deny they did anything wrong.
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hereandthere
let's see... if you choose to insist that humans are contributing to "global climate change" via their CO2 production, then should be rejoicing in the "global financial meltdown" since it will lead to a halt in productivity globally... as factories shut down or go out of business, jobless increases and less driving etc. problem solved...
and don't forget the pirates...
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Sarge
"What climate change?"
Heh.
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Helter_Skelter
This whole issue of "global warming" is more about anti-capitalism and anti-big oil than it is about the environment. Leftists love this issue for political reasons, as an attack on evil corporations and businesses, especially American ones. This is really about pushing their socialist agenda. There may be some small component of environmental concern, like the polar bears, but that's about the extent of it.
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HaroldSteptoe
Helter Skelter- Global warming is a fact that cannot be disputed. oh yes, i have studied the climate and global warming IS man made.
Jeremy Paxman said that global warming is the biggest threat to the worlds economy and security in the 21st century, and i agree.
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hereandthere
Jeremy Paxman!? now there is a real authority on climate...
funniest comment ever, thanks Steptoe
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bushlover
[It'll be funny to hear them explain to their grandkids, if we survive that long as a race, how 'it's not THEIR fault! How could they have possibly known' their grandkids wouldn't be able to play outside, feel the rain on their faces, or breath natural air!?]
Sorry I'm late on this one but this is surely the funniest thing I've read here. Smith watches too many Arnold movies. And by the way what is 'natural air'? Sounds like something we could use to increase global warming which we all know is caused by liberal do-gooder save the planet spout hot air types who are increasing the methane emissions from all the bull they spout.
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