White House says tax bill to pass despite Democrats' revolt
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0
TimRussert
Civil war in the Democrat Party?
0
mikehuntez
The rats are jumping ship? Poor Captain Obama will go down with his ship?
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hottomales
Tax cuts to help the rich? God forbid they might be reduced to buying a domestic luxury car this year! How dare the Democrats try to make it hard for the rich to buy a Mercedes or BMW! Don't they care about Germany's economy at all?
Well Republicans, most of you might think these cuts will be great one day when you get rich, as you dream now. But that year is not this year. In fact, it won't ever come. Could you just learn your station and act appropriately? I am real sick of this tax cut for the rich bull crap. Our national debt is so high and Chinese owned, its more likely you and your children will be butlers and maids for some Chinese guy in the near future than your getting rich!
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TimRussert
Americans don't talk about "learning their station." So you can quit with the charade. And the US already has a very progressive tax code - the bottom 40 percent of working class folk pay NO taxes. You could tax 'the rich' all you want and STILL not make a dent in the bill the Democrats' massive spending is racking up and being passed on to the unborn. Obama played the class war card (that non-American Lefties like u just luv) and it failed.
0
pointofview
Tax cuts are ok for the wealthy if the actually do what they are intended to do, create jobs and stimulate the economy. But they don`t. Look at the unemployment rate. The fat companies are making record profits once again and hiring nobody.
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TimRussert
Have you ever owned or operated a business? Would you hire in the Obama era? They rammed through a stimulus bill that the majority of economists and even ordinary Americans recognize harmed our economy, as intervention always does. Then they rammed through health care "reform," effectively punishing small businesses. There is no clearer indication that this too was a mistake than the FACT that the White House has quietly issued over 200 "waivers" to favored companies, allowing them to opt out. Just who is pimping for "the rich" now ? Obama is repeating the same mistakes as the micro-managers of FDR's era - and the result is that it produces what is most harmful in a free market economy:uncertainty.
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skipthesong
The fat companies are making record profits once again and hiring nobody." And they are holding that cash NOW, unlike before, because they are waiting on what they will pay. And rich now vice last year even richer still means you pay out and for what? Oh, and don't forget you get us again when we die. Why should we have to pay any more than we have for the last few years.
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GJDailleult
Sorry, but I can't take anybody seriously who clings to this silly idea that the USA has a free market economy. In a free market economy you can not have an industrial and economic policy based on creating an infinite amount of debt (the unstated economic policy of the USA since the Reagan administration), for the simple reason that the free market will destroy the banks that lent out more money than can be paid back. You do not have a free market in any country where the price of money is set through central planning, and set artificially low to maintain the size of the money supply. You do not have a free market in any country where government subsidizes zombie banks and transfer trillions of dollars (estimated true amount is $12 trillion) from the productive economy to keep them alive. And then spread nonsensical propaganda like "they paid back the TARP", that was just pocket change, and the idea that things will change if you replace one useless, clueless fool in the White House with another useless, clueless fool.
As for the Tax bill, a successful parasite is one that does not kill its host. Obviously there are few things in the world dumber than a "rich" American.
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sf2k
Reaganomics has never worked though. That's when the spike in debt started from graphs I've seen online. Americans will have to start paying their bills, should they wish not to continue to impoverish themselves.
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TimRussert
What companies, specifically, are making record profits? Is there maybe a lesson to be learned from their business model? Maybe they actually make things, create wealth and value.
They should be forced to hire? This is pretty disturbing to read. As with the proponents of "progressive" taxes people like you seem to have a rather warped idea about "democracy."
Your demands upon successful people and companies violate the principles of free association that civil democratic society rests upon. You agree that a man shall be free to pursue happiness, to make the most of the precious gift of liberty and of his natural talents, but then you want to penalize him when you decide he has done a little too well for himself.
The really zealous seek to penalize not just the gifted individual but even the ordinary one who reaches an advanced age and has accrued an amount of wealth the zealot believes should be redistributed to a younger portion of the population, in the name of "fairness," of course...
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sf2k
banks are making record profits because they are loaned money at no interest because they are too big to fail, and are now raking it in because they are charging people the same rates. Their business plan is to cry to government when their business model is a failure. Much like the auto companies.
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sf2k
so the taxpayer is funding the companies but the companies are to pay less taxes, so thus the taxpayer will have to pay for services themselves. Mix repeat. It's corporate socialism and welfare capitalism.
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sf2k
the only gifted individual is the nut who started all this nonsense. I hope China recalls it's loans soon. Then we'll see the facade of Corporate America. Much like the facade of freedom.
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TimRussert
sfk2 - maybe you should stick to commentary about the UK. You don't really understand the US.
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sf2k
this is exactly analogous to the UK education fiasco. A gov't intent on cutting taxes milks the costs off the citizenry to put up with more burdens, while the rich among them get break after break.
The rich are not entitled to their entitlements. If they are such loser citizens then go to China. Citizenship needs to mean something in America. Even corporate citizenship. Wealth distribution is the Hobgoblin of little conservative minds. During a recession is the best time to get rid of all that bloat, fire bankers, their lawyers and friends. Let those auto companies fail, get real ones instead. Let the entitled CEO's stockbrokers and other grifters live off their savings. Who is this a burden to? Those workers can then create new companies, finally.
But oh no, don't cut their taxes. Increase them. They need to pay even their fair share. Some wealth distribution is necessary to cut the excesses of the stupid pork barreling grifter generation.
Anything less is madness. You'll end up wth no middle class, rich and poor only. With increased unrest the police state will be necessary to protect the companies interests since the government is so weak, that must keep people in line paying for company socialism.
Sad watching a great country diminish.
Interesting that it comes from a predictable outcome:
"""A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.""" ---various Alexander Fraser Tyler quotes 18th century
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GJDailleult
TR - you really have no idea what is going on here do you. This tax business has nothing to do with fairness. It is about the fact that an economy is a system, and that certain things are required to keep it alive or it will collapse. That has been learned over hundreds of years of economic thought, thought that the USA threw away just because some bad guys started charging them more for oil, and then they built the biggest economic bubble in human history.
Supporting shifting the tax base off those who, as said above, are looting the treasury onto those who are not is basically the same as actively cheer-leading for the economic collapse of the United States. There is a certain middle eastern organization who does that too. As for those "gifted" individuals who actually earn their money, they have more at stake here than anybody. It is time for them start making a stand, although it is probably too late anyways.
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hottomales
More changing of the topic. The unborn have owed since even before the Dems took back Congress. And so, all that matters in this thread is generating the money to pay, ie taxation. And you won't generate the money by taxing the middle class and poor alone. In fact, you will make even less of a dent!
Which is why so many of them are suckers for their rich masters. They foolishly think they can lick boots all the way to the top!
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hottomales
The tax code is progressive, but its not "very" progressive. The bottom 50 percent make like less than 33,000 dollars a year, because they are being paid peanuts. And taxing peanuts more won't help us. Companies have already pushed them to their limits and taxing them more will just break them.
A "very" progressive tax code would have lots of breakdowns for those over 500,000 dollars and go over 35 percent. Ours does not. What does anyone need with literally millions a year while our country is in hock to foreign countries? Further, why should they be allowed so much since they push half the nation to their tolerable limits?
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SolidariTea
To read that
so many of them [Americans] are suckers for their rich masters. They foolishly think they can lick boots all the way to the top!
but finish such a silly rant without learning who these "rich masters" are is a real disappointment. The wanton cynicism and flippant dismissal of a country as diverse as the US is one loud false note for me.
All the more reason for the sovereign individual to invest as he sees fit. Your faith in big gubmint is quite at odds with your tough guy nihilist pose...
0
SolidariTea
sfk2 - that is a familiar quote
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. "
familiar to me from conservative and Libertarian websites. It was especially popular in the run-up to Obama's obscene porkulus "stimulus".Thanks for posting it.
0
TumbleDry
A thing that should be noted is that the rich, other than their playboy grade mansion, Ferrari and Gulfstream jet, they don't hide their money under their mattress but in banks or investment institutions. Banks give loans and investment institutions invest with that money.
In theory, this is supposed to create jobs.
The government goal is cleverly waste money obtained through taxes and loans. Banks & Cie goal is to make money. Here I see 2 radical views. Don't tax and let the people deciding what to do with their money or let the government decides what to do with this money. The solution isn't communism, the Dems or the Reps but something in between. The real health, education and other infrastructure costs are too great to be all privatized. US is living above her mean.
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TumbleDry
Add Japan, Europe, etc to the above list...
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SolidariTea
The Democrat revolt this article speaks of included a closed-door meeting yesterday that ended with a Dem member of Congress literally saying "F_ _ _ the president !"
I recall quite a lot righteous breast-beating when Joe Wilson (correctly, as it turned out) called Obama " a liar".
Even Keith Olbermann, the Rush Limbaigh wannabe of the Left, has declared
Obama Is ‘God Damned Wrong’
What is happeneing to all the hope and the change?
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hottomales
Anyone in a company or owning it that takes home more than 5 times what any one full time employee earns in a year at that company is a rich master in my opinion. Any employee earning 5 times less who thinks those other employees (executives) and owners should be taxed easily is a boot licker.
Since I have not seen rioting and protests in America yet, I am going to have to conclude that there are a lot of bootlickers there. Some execs earn more than 100 times that of floor workers.
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hottomales
No, you just confused my ideas of "better" with my ideas of "best". I have no faith in big government. But better big government take the money the greedy stole, than the greedy get to keep it. I would much prefer the money go to the workers who actually did the work that made the money though. I understand the value of leadership and entreprenerism, but there are limits to how that can be fairly valued over working a full time job.
My solution would be to tax the rich heavily for now, while at the same time reducing the size and expenditure of the government until our debts are paid. Don't even think that because I want to tax the rich, I want some government fat cat to enjoy it. I want that money paying our debts. And I want less government.
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