White-supremacist fringe party invited to take part in BBC program

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  • 0

    sabiwabi

    The BNP, which opposes immigration and says it fights for “indigenous” Britons,

    That makes them white-supremacists? Do they also oppose immigration by white Americans, Germans, or Russians, for example?

  • 0

    kinniku

    That makes them white-supremacists?

    Sigh....Read much?

    BNP Constitution 9th Edition. British National Party. http://bnp.org.uk/Constitution%209th%20Ed%20Sep%202005.pdf

    "The British National Party represents the collective National, Environmental, Political, Racial, Folkish, Social, Cultural, Religious and Economic interests of the indigenous Anglo-Saxon, Celtic and Norse folk communities of Britain and those we regard as closely related and ethnically assimilated or assimilable aboriginal members of the European race also resident in Britain. Membership of the BNP is strictly defined within the terms of, and our members also self define themselves within, the legal ambit of a defined ‘racial group’ this being ‘Indigenous Caucasian’ and defined ‘ethnic groups’ emanating from that Race as specified in law in the House of Lords case of Mandla V Dowell Lee (1983) 1 ALLER 1062, HL."

  • 0

    skipthesong

    I didn't know the BNP was a white supremacist org. There is a really nice guy here, who has a Japanese wife, who is a big supporter of them. I wonder if I should say something to him.

  • 0

    kinniku

    I wonder if I should say something to him.

    If he is a supporter, I would assume he knows what they are. If you say something, just be prepared for a potential confrontation. Then again, maybe he really doesn't know what they really stand for. As witnessed in the first post some people don't always think to check things out.

  • 0

    Alphaape

    I didn't know the BNP was a white supremacist org. There is a really nice guy here, who has a Japanese wife, who is a big supporter of them. I wonder if I should say something to him.

    You know, even in America you have the same thing. People who don't like another group of people because of their color belong to a group, while at the same time marrying one of those who are supposedly in the "out" group. One of the OKC bombers (not Mcvey) was married to a mail-ordered bride from the PI, yet he believed with McVey that America was going to "Hell in a Handbaket" becuase many of our immigration issues.

    I must admit, I have not heard of this group, but I ask this question. Are there many Muslim groups in England that deny memberpship to non-muslims? If so, aren't they doing the same thing?

  • 0

    kinniku

    Are there many Muslim groups in England that deny memberpship to non-muslims? If so, aren't they doing the same thing?

    No, I don't think it would be necessarily the same thing to ask members of a religious group to be followers of that particular religion. If you are not a member of the religion, there is not much reason to be a member of that religious group. However, what we see here on the part of the BNP is a specific desire to block people based on race. That is the definition of racism.

  • 0

    bgaudry

    If we stopped immigration to the UK or shipped "immigrants" back, all the corner shops would close, there would be a real dearth of decent foods, buses and trains would stop and life would be even more dull and drab. Is this what people in the UK really want? I think not.

  • 0

    S7ro9kGm3aQ

    White-supremacist fringe party

    I don't see you using this kind of rhetoric when referring to Japanese parties of the same ilk. Double standards ahoy Cap'n.

  • 0

    sabiwabi

    kinniku,

    Thank you so much for pasting stuff; but as always, what's your point? How does that prove that they are white-supremacists?

    I'm not saying that they are not, I am just wondering on what exactly this statement is based on. This article seems to base it on their opposition to immigration. Their is absolutely no need for your childish, self-righteous, condescending response ("read much?").

  • 0

    Scrote

    The BBC is quite biased towards the left and I'm sure that the Question Time programme will be a complete fiasco. The audience will be packed with left wing loudmouths who will try to shout down the BNP representative at every opportunity.

    The chairman and other panel members will continually interrupt the BNP representative throughout the programme and I doubt that he will be allowed to complete more than a couple of sentences.

    Once the farce is over the BBC will have engineered an excuse to prevent future appearances on its programmes by BNP members.

    I do not support the BNP, but I do support free speech, something that no longer exists in the UK thanks to the corrupt, thieving labour government.

  • 0

    timorborder

    Although I do not agree with the views expressed by such organizations, of course they should be given access to air time. Why? It is called freedom of speech. At the time, however, if this organization is going to get on the air, they should be prepared to face a thorough grilling from the media, with no punches pulled. That also is a cornerstone of freedom of speech.

  • 0

    kinniku

    sabiwabi,

    Thank you so much for pasting stuff; but as always, what's your point?

    My point is to point out that all you have to do is look at the organization and see it's charter and membership requirements. Did you read it? Based on your response, I would say you have not. Re-read it.

    How does that prove that they are white-supremacists?

    Again, it is obvious that you are either having some trouble with reading or you have not read the quote or the link about the BNP for you to still be asking such a question. Do you know what the words 'white supremacist' mean? Again, did you bother to read my pasted quote or the charter in the link I politely provided for you? It again seems as if you haven't.

    Again, just for you:

    Membership of the BNP is strictly defined within the terms of, and our members also self define themselves within, the legal ambit of a defined **‘racial group’ **this being **‘Indigenous Caucasian’ **and defined **‘ethnic groups’ **emanating from that Race as specified in law in the House of Lords case of Mandla V Dowell Lee (1983) 1 ALLER 1062, HL."

    If you would also read the charter, you would see there is plenty more.

    BTW, my comment about the impression you give that you don't manage to read very much is supported by your continued questions about something which has already been answered.

    For example, how could anyone upon reading the quote above or the charter asked this:

    I am just wondering on what exactly this statement is based on.

    It is based on the group's charter and philosophy. Asked and answered, twice now.

  • 0

    WayneRooney10

    Worse than the Murdoch Fox network in America! Say no to racism!

  • 0

    franz75

    When I hear or read the word "race", it does automatically sound wrong.

    Genetic decoding proved that "race" does not exist like we see in the animal world.

  • 0

    IvanCoughalot

    Like Rousseau said, you may not like what the man has to say, but you have to defend to your last breath his right to say it.

    Let this fat fart on the show, and show him up for the bigot he is. Denying him the platform will just be to give him ammunition. Then he'd be able to play the victim card: "You see, the BBC won't let me speak - why are they afraid of what I have to say? It's because they know people would agree with us".

    In any case, if Gerry Adams gets airtime after decades of terrorist activity, then Griffin is at least entitled to the same. He may be despicable, but he hasn't had anyone murdered.

  • 0

    kirakira25

    I can understand the UK`s anger when it comes to immigration. It has gone on unchecked for so long and it is not as if we are a big place, unlike the US!

    HOWEVER - I think that supporting the BNP is absolutely the wrong way to go about changing things. If they had their way, my Japanese husband and half-Japanese children would be "voluntarily re-patriated" back to Japan - without me. I have even been told on a forum before by a BNP supporter that "people like you have betrayed your UK roots" by marrying outside the UK, to which I responded that "quite frankly given the picking in the UK these days is it any wonder that decent British people are looking further afield for future life partners!"

    I would also say that, yes, whilst immigration is a huge problem and is causing increases in crime and social unrest, one of the UK`s single biggest issues is all the lazy "indigenous" scroungers on benefits and drinking themselves into a stupor. Many indigenous Brits are causing far more social problems than the immigrants and it breaks my heart every time I go home to see what my country is turning into!

  • 0

    Cicada

    Although it isn’t likely to gain a seat in the national Parliament because of Britain’s first-past-the-post electoral system, the BNP serves on several city councils and... took about 6 percent of the British vote in European elections, winning two EU parliament seats.

    A "fringe" party has two EU seats? Doesn't that mean they are no longer fringe?

    What are the criteria to be denoted "fringe"? Any party with no seat in Britain's national Parliament?

  • 0

    tanglewood

    Fox News may be a bit sensational but it is pay-per-view. Here is a taxpayer-funded monolith inviting a bunch of racist idiots to spew their beliefs for the benefit of the sheeple of Britain.It boggles the mind.

  • 0

    tanglewood

    "Like Rousseau said, you may not like what the man has to say, but you have to defend to your last breath his right to say it."

    Great quote. But it wasn't Rousseau, the forerunner of the fascists and the Marxists, who said that.

    Are you a long-time BBC viewer and listener, by any chance?

  • 0

    dammit

    As for white-supremacists, I've never heard anyone use that term about the BNP but it's not too far off the truth. They're a bunch of racist, lazy, mostly unemployed @?!$heads. That's not any particular insult, I just haven't decided what I want to call them today. Some people call them the National Front, some call them skin-heads, some call them racist scum etc. White-supremacists sounds like an American term, but as I said it's not far off.

  • 0

    Soochi

    I didn't know the BNP was a white supremacist org. There is a really nice guy here, who has a Japanese wife, who is a big supporter of them. I wonder if I should say something to him.

    Yup, give him this gem on miscegenation from Griffin,

    "Do I regard someone who is married to or living with a partner of another race as a suitable member or candidate for the BNP? No, because by their choice they have clearly shown that they do not share our most fundamental values."

    If he remains a big supporter nonetheless then reconsider your own definition of "nice guy".

  • 0

    Madverts

    "Great quote. But it wasn't Rousseau, the forerunner of the fascists and the Marxists, who said that."

    I thought it was Voltaire....

  • 0

    kinniku

    Doesn't that mean they are no longer fringe? What are the criteria to be denoted "fringe"?

    I guess there are probably a few interpretations. One of the most common definitions of fringe would be an idea or a group of ideas that depart significantly from the prevailing or mainstream view. The BNP fits the bill for this definition. At least, I would hope so.

  • 0

    Triumvere

    "Let this fat fart on the show, and show him up for the bigot he is."

    Oh god, this. The PC crowd thinks that shutting people up is the best way to combat bigots and their loathsome ideas, when letting them talk often does far more damage...

  • 0

    DickMorris

    Hey guys give this guy a break. Don`t you believe in free speech. He is going to allow blacks, asians etc into the part soon, so it sure aint no white supremacist party.

    Let`s give the guy a fair shot. If he has good points to make, he may gain more supporters, however he may lose support if he looks a fool.

    I kinda like the BBC, even though they have a history of Liberal bias.

  • 0

    bushlover

    [The BNP, which opposes immigration and says it fights for “indigenous” Britons, wants to become a force in British politics.]

    So a party that doesn't want an immigration nightmare like the USA has with illegal Mexicans and others is Racist? I don't think so. Just full of common sense. And just because they are white they must be racist... Well I can see that misconception as they are British and it's easy to see that they are full of themselves.

  • 0

    zurcronium

    white supremacist fringe party? they should link up with the US republicans which is almost the same thing.

  • 0

    fleetwood77

    no one man-one vote system.

    We DO have a "one man one vote system" in the UK - Patrick Smash is talking bollocks

  • 0

    kinniku

    DickMorris and bushlover,

    Sigh. Read the thread from the beginning. Better yet, read their charter:

    BNP Constitution 9th Edition. British National Party. http://bnp.org.uk/Constitution%209th%20Ed%20Sep%202005.pdf

    It is obvious that the BNP is a racist group and easily fits into the definition of white supremacist group. Right above here is a quote from the BNP's Griffin himself. If you are still having trouble, I hear you can buy reading primers on the internet now. So, there is still hope for you.

    At its core, this has nothing at all to do with 'immigration' policies and it has everything to do with racist ideology.

    Well I can see that misconception as they are British and it's easy to see that they are full of themselves.

    Since you did not even take the time to read through the thread...right back at you. In fact, it is interesting that you would decide to judge people mainly on what country they come from. I'm sure the BNP can open up a spot for you. Hey, if they are full, you could always shave your head.

  • 0

    kinniku

    Oh and Dick,

    The BNP was FORCED to accept applications for members of other races. They had NO choice but to do that or have their party dissolved. Try reading. You can learn so much about things.

  • 0

    bushlover

    [it is interesting that you would decide to judge people mainly on what country they come from.] -- Yes exactly how many Brits decided to brand me a "dumb Yank" oh so many times. Or what was that popular term back in the 80s? SPAM? Spastic Plastic American Moron I believe it means. Oh so lovely to be judged by a nationality I must say. Payback sure is a bitter pill to swallow.

    That said I still believe they have the right to protect their country from hoards across Europe and elsewhere coming into their country and trying to change things so it suits them. If they don't like Britain that much why don't they just stay away. Maybe it's been this that has sparked para 2 sub para b of their Political Objectives. Other than that I can see nothing wrong here. I wouldn't go as far as calling them "supremacists" though. They are not lynching foreigners are they? Or do you think that anyone that fights for the rights of whites is a KKK candidate?

  • 0

    kinniku

    Yes exactly how many Brits decided to brand me a "dumb Yank" oh so many times.

    Umm...unfortunately for you, you seem to be proving their point here. Anyway, I would suggest that you learn the expression, 'two wrongs don't make a right'. If you think what they said was wrong, then you should not being doing it yourself.

    That said I still believe they have the right to protect their country from hoards across Europe and elsewhere coming into their country and trying to change things so it suits them.

    Heh, yeah sure. The US has stayed exactly the same as when the original natives were there...not. Immigration, controlled of course, is the life blood of a healthy country. It made your country strong. Time for you to realize that.

    If they don't like Britain that much why don't they just stay away.

    Who are you talking about? The non-white British citizens who don't like the way the BNP suggests they are not as good as whites and that they are should not be allowed to be in Britain? I've got news for you. It is not just non-whites. As can be seen from this brief article, lots of British citizens hate what the BNP stands for and realize that such racism should not be tolerated.

    Maybe it's been this that has sparked para 2 sub para b of their Political Objectives.

    No...it is the racism. Interesting with all the proof available even in this thread, which it seems you still have not even read through, that you are giving your opinion that a racist group is only concerned with immigration.

    Other than that I can see nothing wrong here.

    Well, that certainly says a lot about you. You see. Most people do not like and are not willing to tolerate the racisms that the BNP has demonstrated. Again, since you cannot be bothered to even read this thread or the charter of the group that I have provided, it is clear you either support that racist attitude or that you are just offering opinions with no reasonings related to the issue.

    I wouldn't go as far as calling them "supremacists" though.

    Well, it seems that you do not understand the meaning of 'supremacist' then. Check out a dictionary and look up white supremacist. Don't worry, you don't have to buy a dictionary, they are available for free on the internet. So now you don't have an excuse for a lack of knowledge.

    They are not lynching foreigners are they?

    LOL! That is your only criteria? Hear that everyone? As long as you don't lynch anyone, it is okay to spread hate and racism. Whew. I would not want to live in the narrow world as you imagine it to be.

    Or do you think that anyone that fights for the rights of whites is a KKK candidate?

    The BNP and the KKK or David Duke's organization are all the same bunch of rubbish with different packaging. The BNP is not 'fighting for the rights of whites' (whites have plenty of right in the UK and elsewhere, BTW so it is a specious 'cause' to begin with), they are fighting to exclude people who they do not consider 'white' from Britain and British society. That includes those that would marry or have children with people who are what the BNP does not consider 'white'. Although members of the BNP don't wear hoods and sheets, since it seems you agree with that philosophy, I would imagine if you went to the UK and joined a BNP meeting, that they'd probably let you bring and use your own hood and sheet.

  • 0

    sabiwabi

    Who are you talking about? The non-white British citizens who don't like the way the BNP suggests they are not as good as whites and that they are should not be allowed to be in Britain?

    Oh wise one, please educate me some more. Do they actually say that non-whites are inferior? Or do they just not like seeing their country being changed so much by other cultures?

    Again, I'm not saying I approve of the BNP. I just haven't seen anything in the article or in your posts indicating they feel superior to others.

  • 0

    bushlover

    Sorry Kinniku I don't usually agree with sabi but on this I do. You are reading conspiracy where there is none. You are putting words in their mouth because you imagine it to be the way you think.

  • 0

    kinniku

    sabiwabi and bushlover,

    You make very interesting bed-fellows. Anyway. on with the show:

    Oh wise one, please educate me some more. Do they actually say that non-whites are inferior?

    Did you read the charter yet? Have you read the quote of Nick Griffin? No? Read them. While you are at it, read these, too:

    From the BNP constitution:

    "The British National Party stands for the preservation of the national and ethnic character of the British people and is wholly opposed to any form of racial integration between British and non-European peoples. It is therefore committed to stemming and reversing the tide of non-white immigration and to restoring, by legal changes, negotiation and consent, the overwhelmingly white makeup of the British population that existed in Britain prior to 1948."

    Umm...hint, hint. This is called racism.

    Nick Griffin:

    "Do I regard a black or Asian, who loves Britain, as a suitable candidate to stand for the BNP at election time? No, I do not.

    "Do I regard someone who is married to or living with a partner of another race as a suitable member or candidate for the BNP? No, because by their choice they have clearly shown that they do not share our most fundamental values."

    In a speech in Burnley, Griffin said this;

    "We bang on about Islam. Why? Because to the ordinary public out there it's the thing they can understand. It's the thing the newspaper editors sell newspapers with. If we were to attack some other ethnic group — some people say we should attack the Jews … But … we've got to get to power. And if that was an issue we chose to bang on about when the press don't talk about it … the public would just think we were barking mad. They'd just think oh, you're attacking Jews just because you want to attack Jews. You're attacking this group of powerful Zionists just because you want to take poor Manny Cohen the tailor and shove him in a gas chamber. That's what the public would think. It wouldn't get us anywhere other than stepping backwards. It would lock us in a little box; the public would think "extremist crank lunatics, nothing to do with me." And we wouldn't get power." (bushlover, are you still there? I wonder how you feel about this? sabiwabi, are you feeling mixed feelings yet?)

    I have not put any words in their mouths. These are their words, as were the ones the JT poster and I quoted earlier. If you cannot see they are racists, then neither of you know what racism is. More's the pity on you.

  • 0

    kinniku

    This is quite relevant to our discussion:

    Have a look.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04QolIvfQEw

  • 0

    zurcronium

    Joe (you lie) Wilson will be joining this meeting to compare notes on how to manage minorities properly.

  • 0

    bushlover

    Gee Kinniku I do agree that that paragraph about non-white immigration is racist. But other than that I have not seen proof that they are really out to cause violence against racial groups as you are trying to imply to us about their "extremism". They are only extreme in opinion to maintain national identity. They are an exclusive white club that is all. Prove to me they burned crosses on anyone's lawn.

    And as far as candidates for their party are concerned they have every right to allow or disallow anyone they want from their party. Remember their party is not in power and may never be. So they are entitled to their opinion and membership of their own group. If you want to start a party only made up of non-born in Britain immigrants and exclude locally born white people all the power to you. Their lack of getting voted in will be their problem due to their views. Until they have committed a crime I can see them as just another losing party. So like it or not you'll have to live with them. You have the choice not to join them or vote for them. That's why it's called freedom of speech and freedom to vote. They have the right as much as you do.

  • 0

    kinniku

    bushlover,

    Early another poster suggested that Republicans in the US would have a lot in common with the BNP. Sadly, you seem to have also proven that point.

    Gee Kinniku I do agree that that paragraph about non-white immigration is racist. But other than that I have not seen proof that they are really out to cause violence against racial groups as you are trying to imply to us about their "extremism".

    At least, you realize (sadly, only to a small degree, it seems) that the BNP are racist. Let me say, it took you way too long to come to this conclusion. You seem to be equating only the 'lynching' kind of violence with with being extremist. They are extreme in their racism. Did you really read and watch what I provided? All of it? Did you see his speech with David Duke that I provided? Have you looked into the BNP in more detail? Now, Griffin has been clear (if you are actually attempting to listen to and read what the man says, that they have to watch their rhetoric and actions so that they may get into power. Then they may say and act as they really wish to) that he wants all persons of color (as he defines them) out of Britain.

    Sigh. Okay. Let's move on....

    They are only extreme in opinion to maintain national identity.

    No. They are extreme when it comes to the race of other people. It is amazing to me that I must explain this yet again. If you aren't white, they don't believe you have the right to live in and be a British citizen. SOLELY because you aren't white. If you do not think that is extreme, I heard you can probably get some jackboots cheap somewhere to get your outfit started.

    They are an exclusive white club that is all.

    Heh, so is the KKK and David Duke's organization. I am sad to find you approve of such organizations. In the video I provided, you can see the BNP and David Duke are close chums. Sad you cannot see what an extremist is.

    Prove to me they burned crosses on anyone's lawn.

    Again, you do not need to burn a cross on anyone's lawn or lynch them to be considered an extreme racist. If you cannot see they are extreme racists, I suggest some adjustments in your moral compass.

    And as far as candidates for their party are concerned they have every right to allow or disallow anyone they want from their party.

    Please learn to read. A British court just decided that they didn't have that right to disciminate. Why I am teaching you things that are written in this article? Second, allowing or disallowing someone merely on race is the very definition of racism.

    Remember their party is not in power and may never be.

    I hear that is what the Jews in Germany said about the Nazi party. Anyway, what is your point? They are still extreme racists.

    So they are entitled to their opinion and membership of their own group.

    Which are by definition, extreme racism.

    If you want to start a party only made up of non-born in Britain immigrants and exclude locally born white people all the power to you.

    Sigh. Again, do you read much? There is no 'more power to you'. It cannot be done. It is racist and has been determined to be illegal. You know, because rational people don't like racism. Can you point to a 'non-white' group that excludes whites in the way you describe? I honestly don't know of any that specifically say, if you are white, you are not welcome. However, by all means show me an example. I will say it is racist, too. If they advocate getting rid of all white people and excluding them, I will say they are extreme racists? Why? Because that is the very definition of extreme racism.

    Their lack of getting voted in will be their problem due to their views.

    Sigh...you really don't read or watch things much, even when they are provided to you, do you? Griffin specifically says they are toning down the previously harsher rhetoric (look up his previous quotes about Jews and the Holocaust for example) in order to be taken seriously and then plan to revert back to their original positions (remember HIS words, not mine) after getting into power. Sound familiar? Nazi uniforms anyone?

    That's why it's called freedom of speech and freedom to vote. They have the right as much as you do.

    Yes, they have a right to spew their extreme racism and vote according to it. As you said, I have that same right. I vote to recognize it for the vile bile that it is and speak out and vote against it. I hope you will join me in this way of thinking someday.

  • 0

    kinniku

    This is also quite relevant to this discussion.

    Please have look:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7Dygboz4Ew

  • 0

    bushlover

    Kinniku I guess you don't get what I'm saying. I don't care if they are racist. They won't get power due to it. But I do think that they have the right to say whatever they want because that is what your democracy provides for them. It sure allows extremist Islamists in Britain to publicly threaten Britain and it allows "womens" groups to exclude males etc. So why don't you call them all extremists. Some you will some you won't. This one you will but you still must allow them to have their say. It's up to the population to follow them or not. So being allowed to take part in a BBC program is their right. Too bad.

  • 0

    BuddhismTech

    If Japan and United Kingdom make a deal to switch all of their people, UK's 61,000,000 people will live in Japan while 120,000,000 Japanese people will move to UK.

    UK people will have to learn how to read Japanese language, take care of rice fields, adopt Buddhism as their main religion, and operate the high speed trains, as Japanese people will have to get familiar with English, Christianity, and Western politics.

    Then, will the mainstream media take a shot against Japanese people by writing an article entitling, “Yellow-supremacist fringe party invited to take part in BBC program”?

  • 0

    kinniku

    Kinniku I guess you don't get what I'm saying.

    You are correct. I did not get what you were saying. You have to admit, when you starting going on about 'white people's rights', it certainly sounded as though you agreed with the BNP. If you do not. I am glad to know it.

    I don't care if they are racist.

    Well, on just the face of it, why would you not care? I care if people are racist and I don't like it.

    But I do think that they have the right to say whatever they want because that is what your democracy provides for them.

    I agree. I have not written anything to suggest otherwise.

    It sure allows extremist Islamists in Britain to publicly threaten Britain

    I'm curious. Could you be more specific? What groups are you talking about?

    and it allows "womens" groups to exclude males etc.

    Again, could you be more specific? What groups are you talking about?

    As you know, on principle, I am against such barriers.

    So why don't you call them all extremists.

    Who says I wouldn't call them extremists? Since I don't know specifically who or what you are talking about, I can't speak specifically to your question.

    Some you will some you won't.

    With the BNP. I will. How do you feel now that you know more about them? Am I correct in suggesting they are extremists? Should the fact that there are other extremists groups mean that we cannot comment about this extremist group? I do not think so. I try to speak against any form of extremism. In this case, I am speaking against racist extremism. I don't think it should be considered acceptable behaviour or thinking.

    This one you will but you still must allow them to have their say.

    I agree. I have not written anything to suggest otherwise. May I ask? Do you now acknowledge that the BNP are a racist extremist group? I would hope you would agree.

    It's up to the population to follow them or not.

    Yes. It was also up to the population of Germany to follow the Nazis or not. Don't you wish more people had tried to convince them to do otherwise?

    So being allowed to take part in a BBC program is their right.

    I agree. I have not written anything to suggest otherwise.

    Too bad.

    I am not quite sure what your 'too bad' is supposed to me. Does it mean you support this group and too bad for me that I don't? It is a rather cavalier attitude I think. Protesting (peacefully mind you) an extremist racist group and the right to do so should be a part of any democracy. I certainly wish more people had done that in pre-Nazi Germany. Don't you?

  • 0

    kinniku

    BuddhismTech,

    Your question has nothing to do with the situation being discussed here.

  • 0

    BuddhismTech

    Sorry. My apology. Just a bit of commonsense. Yes, my question does make a point. We are all concerned about the mainstream media's way of reporting. Biased or not? Your decision. JapanToday is a part of it, too.

    Everything seems to be repeated for many decades, but slowly something is changing for better or worse, contradicting or according to someone's wish. It will - guaranteed.

  • 0

    BuddhismTech

    Sometime, people need to learn how to "deattach" themselves from things around them, as Buddhism indicates. They don't need to be attached to the racial politics and anti-racial politics. They should try to empty their minds and try to stay tranquility through meditation. A land, above vastness of ocean(s), is just a land. A color is just a color. A human is just a human. Nature is just nature.

  • 0

    kinniku

    Buddhism Tech,

    Briefly, thanks for the sermon. However, maybe you might want to consider giving it to the Buddhist extremists in Sri Lanka who have attacked Christian childrens' orphanages or churches. The bottom line is that any group can have its extremists and they should be rejected and protested. This includes the BNP.

  • 0

    sabiwabi

    "The British National Party stands for the preservation of the national and ethnic character of the British people and is wholly opposed to any form of racial integration between British and non-European peoples....

    Umm...hint, hint. This is called racism.

    The thing I don't understand with you is that you seem to be very much opposed to the views of the BNP and at the same time be a spokesperson for Israel, which is basically a Jewish version of the BNP, fighting (in this case militarily) to "preserve" the Jewish ethnic character of a land they stole from the Palestinians.

    I am no fan of the BNP, I'm just trying to figure out why they are being labeled "supremacists". But even if I don't agree with them, at least there is some sort of logic to their argument; Israel on the other hand...

  • 0

    kinniku

    The thing I don't understand with you is that you seem to be very much opposed to the views of the BNP

    The thing I don't understand is that you don't seem to be very much opposed to the views of the BNP

    and at the same time be a spokesperson for Israel,

    Baloney. I criticize Israel when I feel they things I consider wrong and I do it quite often.

    to "preserve" the Jewish ethnic character of a land

    Baloney. There are Israeli citizens of many religions. Your comparison fails at they always seem to do.

    I am no fan of the BNP

    You seem to be a pretty loyal fan with the way you are defending them here and on the new thread.

    I'm just trying to figure out why they are being labeled "supremacists".

    Well, that is merely because of your lack of reading skills. You see, they are racists. They are racists again anyone that is not white. That makes them white supremacists. Please look up the terms for a change. My definitions are in the dictionary. You can use a free one on the internet if you don't want to buy one.

    But even if I don't agree with them, at least there is some sort of logic to their argument; Israel on the other hand...

    Again, you prove that you have no idea what you are talking about...the BNP in their desire to be accepted have temporarily shifted their racist focus away from Jews (as detailed in quotes above) toward Arabs and members of the Muslim faith. As such, they claimed to support Israel's 2006 war with Hezbollah in Lebanon and encouraged Israel 'to leave a bunch of greasy spots where the Arabs were. So, since you seem to agree with the logic of their argument, that you claim to understand, it seems you have finally admitted you are anti-Arab and anti-Muslim. It is a shame you can't end up going in the other direction and getting rid of racism but instead have picked up a new one...

  • 0

    sabiwabi

    So racist = supremacist? Hmmmm, I thought supremacist was thinking that one race is superior to another, which is a form of racism.

    Interesting, so I guess, assuming you're correct, they changed the meaning of supremacist just like they changed the meaning of Semite to make it refer to Jews, most of which are not Semitic.

    You seem to be a pretty loyal fan with the way you are defending them here and on the new thread.

    No, no fan of the BNP at all. I just hate it when labels are thrown at people when they disagree with what they say. Some people on this forum do that quite a lot too.

  • 0

    kinniku

    Sigh. So, you still haven't managed to look at a dictionary? You really need to start to learn about the world on your own.

    The word racism and its meaning comes from 1933. There have been no 'changes.

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism

    Date: 1933 1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that** racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race** 2 : racial prejudice or discrimination — rac·ist -sist also -shist\ noun or adjective

    Umm...They didn't change the word 'semite' to mean Jews. It You read need to crack a book every once in a while. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/semite Date: 1848 1 a : a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs b : a descendant of these peoples 2 : a member of a modern people speaking a Semitic language

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anti-semite Date: 1882 : hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group

    No, no fan of the BNP at all.

    Sure you are not. That why you think 'at least there is some sort of logic to their argument'.

    You have been defending them since the beginning of this discussion. I don't remember anything in the first post of yours but your asking the really fantastically silly question of 'why are the being called white supremacists'. Even after being provided with the answer over and over, you kept up defending them as you are now.

    I just hate it when labels are thrown at people when they disagree with what they say.

    Heh, I know what you mean, kinda like when you insist that Jews control Western governments and media. You and the BNP have a lot in common actually. However, the 'label' fits with regard to the BNP and the fact that this continues to escape your understanding merely underlines how much you seem to have in common with the BNP.

    Some people on this forum do that quite a lot too.

    Yes, you really should stop doing that.

  • 0

    bushlover

    To me racists think. Extremists and Supremacists do. So far these people have done nothing but blow out their ideas. Let em blow them out. Some will bite but most won't. Everyone grows tired of BS after a while.

  • 0

    kinniku

    To me racists think. Extremists and Supremacists do.

    Well, the only reason the BNP haven't 'done' anything yet is that they are not in power. Were they to be in power they would 'do'. So, yes, they certainly are extremists and supremacists. BTW, extremist and racist refers to the strength and scope of their racism. That is what the words refer to. For reference, please look at the above definition of racism.

    So far these people have done nothing but blow out their ideas.

    Again, only because they are not in power yet. The Nazis also 'blew out' their ideas and that did not work out very well after they convinced a population to vote them in.

    Some will bite but most won't. Everyone grows tired of BS after a while.

    I certainly hope you are right. In addition, I agree 100% that the BNP is BS.

  • 0

    kinniku

    Everyone grows tired of BS after a while.

    Well, about one fifth are not tired yet.

    One in five 'would consider voting BNP' after Nick Griffin Question Time appearance More than a fifth of the public would consider voting for the British National Party, according to the first opinion poll taken since the appearance of its leader, Nick Griffin, on Question Time.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/6417906/One-in-four-would-consider-voting-BNP.html#

  • 0

    JoeBigs

    I see the Republican party does have a British version. Nice to know that the Brits have the same problem America has with racist political parties....

  • 0

    tanglewood

    Once again, failed "liberalism" seems to lead directly to rise of fascist elements:

    'The huge increases in migrants over the last decade were partly due to a politically motivated attempt by ministers to radically change the country and "rub the Right's nose in diversity", according to Andrew Neather, a former adviser to Tony Blair, Jack Straw and David Blunkett. (Telegraph reports)

    'He said Labour's relaxation of controls was a deliberate plan to "open up the UK to mass migration" but that ministers were nervous and reluctant to discuss such a move publicly for fear it would alienate its "core working class vote".'

    The rise of angry losers like Nick Griffin is actually quite predictable.

  • 0

    kinniku

    JoeBigs,

    While there may be Republicans who are racists, I think it is inaccurate to call the US Republican Party a racist political party. Unless you can point to otherwise, I do not believe the Republican party has a constitution/charter that specifically states they will not allow non-whites to be members of the party or to run for the party.

    Again, although there may be comparisons with a member or members of the Us Republican Party and the BNP, comparisons on the party level fail. In fact, they tend to detract from how seriously racist the BNP is.

  • 0

    tanglewood

    re "I see the Republican party does have a British version."

    I see "JoeBigs" has no original thoughts on the matter and is hopelessly ignorant of not only UK politics but also the political landscape of his own country. How sad and embarrassing.

  • 0

    SiouxGirl

    Wait a minute. "Indigenous" Britons? There aren't any, are there? Wasn't a lot of Europe settled by Middle Easterns migrating up from the south? I think the British isles have also been settled by scandinavians and Germans. Not only that, but when the flesh and skin comes off a skeleton you can't tell the difference between a Black person and a White person. Meanwhile, my ancestors also fought against immigration for about 400 years. It's a losing battle, especially now that it's easier for people to travel. Me, I'm hoping to be the first Japanese citizen of Native American ancestry, and not just for the awesome Hello Kitty stuff I can get my mitts on. But I'm French and Scottish, too. So many of us are such a mix of everything, it would be best if the supremacists would just get over it and get onto something more productive. Another tip from the Girl - once you start thinking you're superior to someone else, that's 10 demerits. Once you start telling other people you're superior - you've just proven you're not. Now, about those Japanese papers ...

  • -1

    JoeBigs

    tanglewood at 05:04 PM JST - 25th October re "I see the Republican party does have a British version." I see "JoeBigs" has no original thoughts on the matter and is hopelessly ignorant of not only UK politics but also the political landscape of his own country. How sad and embarrassing.

    How interesting that you did not refute my statement but instead tried to belittle it. By your statement you must be one of the BNP's supporters then? Or am I mistaken?

    Actually the present U.S. Republican party is a bit racist and too far to the right for my likings.

    Case in point, take the Republican party during the 80's. The Republican's were very conservative and less nationalistic. I considered them (the Republican's) to be Center Right and I was a member. They were closer related to your Tory's than to the BNP.

    While today the Republican party has changed and become more nationalistic and less conservative. Their ideals have become more far right and less tolerant. Now they resemble the BNP more than the Troy's.

    Take a look at their party policies and see how close they are...

    As I said it before "I see the Republican party does have a British version"

  • 0

    WilliB

    " The BNP, which opposes immigration and says it fights for “indigenous” Britons "

    I wonder how the writer gets from there to "white supremacist". If this was a party of, say, Canadian Eskimos or American Indians, wouldn´t it be lavished with praise?

    Who is protection of indigenous culture sometimes good and sometimes bad?

  • -1

    JoeBigs

    WilliB at 06:53 PM JST - 26th October " The BNP, which opposes immigration and says it fights for “indigenous” Britons "I wonder how the writer gets from there to "white supremacist". If this was a party of, say, Canadian Eskimos or American Indians, wouldn´t it be lavished with praise? Who is protection of indigenous culture sometimes good and sometimes bad?

    Point proven, clear example of why I say the Republican's and the BNP are brothers in tow.

    They have the same vision no ifs ands or whats......

    tanglewood at 05:04 PM JST - 25th October re "I see the Republican party does have a British version." I see "JoeBigs" has no original thoughts on the matter and is hopelessly ignorant of not only UK politics but also the political landscape of his own country. How sad and embarrassing.

    tanglewood..aka teleprompter; I think my point has been proven by the statements of WilliB.....

    Again, thank you for the help in proving my point WilliB.....

    The Republican Party and the BNP, 2 pigs in a race hate filled pot....

  • 0

    WilliB

    JoeBigs:

    " Point proven, clear example of why I say the Republican's and the BNP are brothers in tow. "

    Huh? I was simply asking a question on principle. If you have an answer, how about giving that, instead of posting personal insults.

    Fwiw, I am neither US nor UK citizen and obviously not member of any of their parties.

  • 0

    tigermoth

    I traveled to London from the States a few months ago and was surprised at how few people in the city were indigenous or even spoke English. But I live in NYC and the same is true there. It's a double-edges sword. With an influx of immigration that has moved away from white northern Europeans (at least for the States) to more from Asia, the Middle-East, etc where customs and tradtions are so vastly different from our own, it's only natural that friction would occur. And when it goes relatively unchecked it leads to things like the BNP.

    But the other edge of the sword could be a rightious and beautiful thing if people on both sides weren't so close-minded and ethnocentric. I love the ethnicity of NYC and it's what makes a sometimes dirty sh*thole tolerable. If you get past appearances and ideologies, people are just people. The idea that some people 'own' or are entitled to certain parts of land in the world is a purley territorial animal thing, and a shame we can't get over that. As Americans we stole our land anyway, but given that (depending upon your belief here - science or hocus-pocus) all the land masses were once one, our exclusive claim to turf is silly. We should as people assimilate and grow rather than quarrel and destory. But that's some Star Trek-like world we don't have.

    In my view the BNP are racists, but they are also scary. Why if they are only a 'fringe group'? Well, the NSDAP (that Nazis folks) was a fringe party within Germany as well. And they preyed upon the fact that 'normal' Germans were fed up with the economic collapse and political chaos and ineffectiveness of post-WWI Germany. Sound familiar? They didn't sound so bad, so radical or that racist. They didn't like Jews, but basically they were for Germany for the Germans, and helping their own get back on track financially and politically. They won a few seats here and there without too much notice. We all know what happened. Could it happen again? Certainly.

    More to the article, I think that despite this groups obious (well to most) racism - no matter how 'well-disguised' as the view of the common Briton - they should be allowed on the program and to have their say. Discredit them by showing their stupidity rather than ignoring them and hoping they'll go away. Don't give them the chance to say 'see, they're afraid of us because we show them what you're all thinking'. They didn't go away in the 1930's and they won't go away by ignoring them now.

    Zucronium you crack me up. It's never a thought out argument with you but just a jab about how whole-heartedly you hate the Republican party. Do you wake up and jab pins in your GB doll?

  • 0

    kinniku

    Huh? I was simply asking a question on principle. If you have an answer, how about giving that, instead of posting personal insults.

    Is there any particular reason why you have not clicked 'show all' above? The questio has been asked and answered by myself and others numerous times. Please read the responses. The term supremacist group fits perfectly. This has been proven over and over again in this very thread and the other BNP thread.

  • 0

    WilliB

    tigermoth:

    " If you get past appearances and ideologies, people are just people. The idea that some people 'own' or are entitled to certain parts of land in the world is a purley territorial animal thing, and a shame we can't get over that. "

    So, there is no argument to be made to protect the ingenious cultures all around the world? As you say, double-edged sword.

  • 0

    tigermoth

    Well certainly there is. My statement is not to mean that people have no right to claims of land per say. But I see what you mean. On the one hand it seems silly that we don't want people to immigrate to 'our lands' because it messes about with our established ways of life - when in fact no one person or group of persons 'own' any land in the existential sense. But at the same time without territorial claims that might be construed as saying it's okay for something like our shameful taking of land from native Americans - which I don't believe to be the case; it's not okay. I suppose it's a compromised medium. The land doesn't belong to any one group to monopolize, but at the same time no group should be forced from an area that they have made as home.

    Okay, it all gets too complicated and somewhat impossible in the sense of reality!

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