Zimbabwe regime jubilant at failed U.N. sanctions bid

Sunday 13th July, 05:44 AM JST

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RepublicofTexas at 04:46 PM JST - 13th July

And to think some people want to expand the UNSC to have more seats....

We want to expand, while simultaneously removing veto power. Veto power gives the current members of the UNSC too much power, this isn't an age of imperialism anymore.
SezWho2 at 05:16 PM JST - 13th July

SuperLib,

In short, instead of trying to punish the regime, I propose that we offer assistance to it and to the people of Zimbabwe.
RepublicofTexas at 05:18 PM JST - 13th July

In short, instead of trying to punish the regime, I propose that we offer assistance to it and to the people of Zimbabwe.

When NGOs set about trying to aide the people of Zimbabwe, Mugabe and his goons harassed them. There can be no peace and prosperity in Zimbabwe until Mugabe is out. Zimbabwe was once a model for post-independence Africa and now it is a cautionary tale of what not to do.
unscrejects at 10:14 PM JST - 13th July

RepublicofTexas] NGOs are as welcome in my country as Gordan Brown is. Go back to 1997 and see what was done by Standard Bank of South Africa. Stop pretending not to hear what I am saying. Zimbabwe was broken in 1997 because of the Congo intervention which spoilt South Africa's rape of Mobuto's Zaire. We even arrested 3 US men armed with 36 rifles and pistols on their way to the Katanga - and your State Department said they were missionaries!!!!! The crap about multi-nationals destroying African countries and armchair liberals crying gabbage about evil African leaders has run its course. Mugabe outwitted you. I can't wait to see him die just to prove how wrong you are.
RepublicofTexas at 10:20 PM JST - 13th July

unscrejects

NGOs are as welcome in my country as Gordan Brown is

Exactly, Mugabe and his gov't hate both.

your State Department

ummm...I'm only half American, so I don't know why you seem to be yelling at me over what the US gov't has done, especially as you seem to hate South Africa. As for Mugabe outwitting me, I don't see how, the man's insane, he has no wit. What are you even talking about with multi-nationals, who said they were destroying Africa?
SezWho2 at 11:00 PM JST - 13th July

RepublicofTexas,

It may be true that there can be no peace and prosperity in Zimbabwe until Mugabe is out. It does not follow that there will be peace and prosperity when Mugabe is out.

Sanctions have not worked to oust him. Stricter sanctions are not likely to work. Strict sanctions might work in a true democracy but that is not the case in Zimbabwe. Unless we find a "coalition of the willing" to relieve Mugabe of his duties, Mugabe will find a way to live with any new sanctions, and like Castro in Cuba, our punitive efforts will not hasten his ouster one jot.

When punishment does not work, try reward.
RepublicofTexas at 11:02 PM JST - 13th July

It does not follow that there will be peace and prosperity when Mugabe is out.

No where did I say that, it's obvious that the country wont recover for a long time after Mugabe is gone
RepublicofTexas at 11:06 PM JST - 13th July

When punishment does not work, try reward.

Yes, but pandering to every dictator and oppressive regime in the world sets a bad precedence. Already many countries (ex. North Korea) believe if they act up the rest of the world will shower gifts on them as a way of making them behave. It's like indulging a spoiled child. As for reward a man who violently suppresses opposition and participates in ethnic cleansing does not deserve a reward.
SuperLib at 11:54 PM JST - 13th July

In short, instead of trying to punish the regime, I propose that we offer assistance to it and to the people of Zimbabwe.

That might work, but it also might end up rewarding people like Mugabe. And it might be hard to explain to the neighbors why we're giving assistance to the guy while they get nothing.
SezWho2 at 08:24 AM JST - 14th July

RepublicofTexas,

It's true that you did not say that there will be peace and prosperity once Mugabe is out. It's also true that I did not say you said so.

Neither did I say that we had to "pander" to Mugabe. Ne?
SezWho2 at 08:31 AM JST - 14th July

SuperLib,

I agree. However, I think the goal is to bring relief to the people of Zimbabwe, not to punish Mugabe.

As for the neighbors, if they are now getting nothing, I think that in itself should be difficult to explain. And, if they cannot appreciate the difference between necessity and critical necessity, there may be no pleasing them anyway.
skipthesong at 09:08 PM JST - 14th July

I would like to know why isn't South Africa offering more help in terms of offering refuge for refugees.
Alinsky4prez at 11:46 PM JST - 14th July

Well, uhh, now Russia and China are siding with Mugabe. We need to stop provoking such outcomes. What we need is aggressive diplomacy! John Bush and George McCain haven't thought of that.
RepublicofTexas at 10:59 AM JST - 15th July

I would like to know why isn't South Africa offering more help in terms of offering refuge for refugees.

South Africa's all show, no substance. Look at the anti-foreigner attacks on Zimbabweans a while back, as well as the inaction of the South African gov't. I don't understand why, one would think that a healthy Zimbabwean economy/stable gov't would be beneficial to South Africa.
unscrejects at 02:21 PM JST - 15th July

Republic - your knowledge about Zimbabwe's crisis is as reliable as Colin Powell's on Iraq's WMDs. Zimbabwe's economy was intentionally destroyed by South Africa and Britain in 1997-1998. Ask the Japanese ministry of foreign affairs. Better still call Muneo Suzuki and Koizumi. The British embassy can tell you about the people it sent with cash offers to Mazda in November 1997 explaining that the balck Zimbabweans would be put through 18 months (max) of hell to get them to overthrow Mugabe who they noted had cost their multi-nationals through loss of mineral concessions in Zaire. Russia and China know the facts because they were also approached and asked to stand aside. Mbeki can vouch for it. Hell why I am telling you this when there is nothing you can do about it... Mugabe is a victim of treachery by members of his own party who were conned into the plot. The CFU, the ZCTU, the Jo'burg stock exchange all don't deny what I am saying - why should you.