POLITICS
Abe says World War II leaders tried by allies cannot be considered war criminals

Stop talking about it, AND erase it from history, AND create a generation of Japanese (hell, they already have) who are ignorant of their own country, and who potentially one day again brandish similar pride in it which saw them try to enforce their will on the world around them? That's a severe suggestion and one which I don't think will come true, but people who just go about and say enough empty apologies = a true and deep one, and forget about it, are just about the most oversighted people I can think of at the moment.

 

"Stop talking about it, AND erase it from history, AND create a generation of Japanese (hell, they already have) who are ignorant of their own country, and who potentially one day again brandish similar pride in it which saw them try to enforce their will on the world around them? That's a severe suggestion..."

Umm, where did I ever say that? You are taking my quote WAY out of context. I didn't say anything about erasing it from history. Quite the contrary, I said that they should make peace with history and move on. And as far as your poignant poem goes, I have another one for ya.

Under the weight of posturing
The pine tree bends,
But does not break,
Or change its color.
It just looks stupid to everyone, But itself.

It's interesting to think about what this may signify about the Japanese psyche too.

 

It's hard for Chinese to talk about Tibet. Nah, actually it's because they don't even give enough of a damn to be aware of it.

Physicians, heal thyselves. When you withdraw from there, then maybe I'll start feeling a little concern about your whining over the 'rape of nanking'

Yeah, go ahead censors -- er, I mean "moderators" -- take the coward's way out and delete my message for being "off topic" when you know that it couldn't be more on-topic.

 

Folks, there is no point seeking rational responses from these anti-Japan mania. They are like the child sex offender/murderer that has just been given capital punishment verdict, who had said to the judge, "I have to be excuted if you don't want more victims".

It doesn't matter to these anti-Japan mania how senseless and brainless their opinions are. Their assertions and actions are based on sadism that they get from bashing anything Japan. They want to see Japan and Japanese people suffer, and they get a great pleasure out of it. It's a mental sickness that cannot be cured with logics.

Maybe these sadists should start considering moving to the northern part of the Korean Penninsula who will anytime welcome their moral support...

 

Panawave...I totally disagree with your way of thinking, but loved the poem. Very clever. Unfortunately, until it is illegal to deny the slaughter in Asia, Japan won't be allowed to stop talking about IT. I also don't agree that the people have apologized. That would require a debate in the Diet about the war and a vote by the people's representatives to apologize. That has never happened. At this point it will never happen so the best we can hope for is some recognition of the extent of the barbarity. As Japan declines relative to China over the next 20 years, Japan may be forced to do this if it wishes to continue doing business in China. Already big business in Japan is putting pressure on the PM's office to not visit the shrine.

 

Does this come with a cup of holocaust denial?

 

tenuki...No. Because if one can demonize the Arian German, it just makes 'me', the Japanese look better and confirms what 'we' already know about those nasty foreigners: they sure are warlike, not like us wa loving Japanese.

 

I agree with your post but I think we are just looking at the same conclusion from different angles. Actually the Japanese government won't stop talking about it UNTIL it is illegal to deny the slaughter in Asia. That is precisely my point. They still think they have a shot at rewriting history. So even though this is ultimately a losing battle for them, they still refuse to stop fighting it.

Most of your average everyday people really do feel sorry for what happened to everyone during WWII. They were also taken for a ride. But they are also confused because there is a disconnect between the pacifist educaton system and the government's official stance. That is a fact. The wack version of history presented at the Yushukan is not the opinion widely held nor accepted by the population. Actually most people don't even know about it. My wife was just as shocked as I was to read some of the crap that was written in there about WWII (in Japanese of course. The English captions said different things). So they are genuinely puzzeled and can't figure out why everyone is still on their case when they really believe they have apologized numerous times. THEY have but officially, THEIR GOVERNMENT hasn't.

Ultimately market forces will decide Japan's fate. I also agree with you on that 100%.

"As Japan declines relative to China over the next 20 years, Japan may be forced to 'debate the history of WWII and officially apologize' if it wishes to continue doing business in China. Already big business in Japan is putting pressure on the PM's office to not visit the shrine."

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

You didn't say it, but it's naturally related to your idea of stopping talking about it for the Japanese government. Stop talking about it, and erase or alter history so it stops becoming a matter of not talking about it, and literally becomes a case of not being ABLE to talk about it, because it never happened. They should never be allowed to stop talking about it until they clearly damn own up to it.

And your poem sucks, because it's entirely not about posturing, and completely about meaningful remorse. Posturing is for actors, so THANKYOU for agreeing that the Japanese government, successive governments, have just been acting and haven't been meaningfully sorry.

 

"You didn't say it, but it's naturally related to your idea of stopping talking about it for the Japanese government. Stop talking about it, and erase or alter history so it stops becoming a matter of not talking about it, and literally becomes a case of not being ABLE to talk about it, because it never happened."

Huh, 'Naturally'? Did I miss something or did you completely miss my post where I used a very graphic example to prove why this whole idea of trying to rewrite the past is waste of everyone's time and sounds stupid so they should quit doing it. The world is not going to forget. Don't worry so much.

"They should never be allowed to stop talking about it until they clearly damn own up to it."

That's what I am saying! Own up, officially apologize and shut up about it already. WWII is over! GOD! MOVE ON AND QUIT WASTING EVERYONE'S TIME!

"And your poem sucks, because it's entirely not about posturing, and completely about meaningful remorse. Posturing is for actors..."

You just said my poem sucks and then proved my point in your next sentence. It's all about posturing for the Japanese government because they have no remorse! They ARE actors! Posturing and sincerity are mutually exclusive and posturing makes you look dumb! Do you understand now? I agree with you!

Man, I think you need to lean how to comprehend what you read a little better because everything you are trying to beat me over the head with are all things I agree with you on.

 

Panawave...what a little lovefest this has turned into. I agree with a majority of posters for a change. How about another poem to commemorate Abe and North Korea? He so obviously needs a bogey man, has been handed one on a platter, and is now making hay. Come on, you can do it.

 

Of walking the line between what he believes and what the Prime Minister is required to submit to. Basically, he believes that his grandfather (and perhaps all the Class-A's right up to Tojo) was never tried for any true crime. Though war atrocities did occur, many of the leaders, like Nobusuke Kishi, were not the ones performing them.

To the victors go the spoils (including the heads of the enemy generals). Though beheading a fallen opponent is no longer sanctioned, many Japanese see the comparison easily. Had the Allies lost this war, then their 'beheading' trials would likely have listed Eisenhower and Patton as Class-A war criminals, and I will not discuss Hiroshima and Nagasaki in this thread.

I am a student of history, and can clearly see the pain suffered by Manchuria, Korea, Formosa (Taiwan), and China during the War, but I do not believe that all of the cabinet members, nor even the military generals, were war criminals.
War is hell.

 

Sorry, I didn't see you say they should apologize sincerely for anything. I saw you say:



and



"Make peace with history and move on" sounds distinctly different to "History is what it is. Get over it and move on". The first sentence sounds meaningful, the second sounds like "You have a problem with Japan over their history? Well f'ing get over it and move on, because they've apologised enough, and whether you think it's sincere or not means jack".

I also don't see how "they've apologised enough, and it doesn't matter how much they do so in the future" = "they should apologise".

Looking at your post again though, it seems I did make some mistakes, and if you agree with me, fine. But not everyone has time to read every single thing that is written in minute detail, and from the quotes above I think you can see how I took issue with what you wrote.

 

[quote:War is hell.[/quote]

And agressors are agressors.

 

justify another life. i am certain that many asians
throughout the asian mainland and other pacific is-
lands really grieved their families lost. i believe
that no nation can invade other nations and expect
them to not prosecute using their war courts. what
the japanese did to asians and polynesians through-
out the pacific was gruesome, but let us understand
that the past japanese generations have gone and wo-
rld war 2 has been since over... i have a japanese
girl friend and she doesn't even care much bout the
world war 2... most japanese youngsters are more co-
ncerned about xbox or going to college... i don't th-
ink it is fair for people to be bringing up japan's
military history everytime a political dialouge...
everytime nations speak to germany or italy we do not
bombard them with why did you kill the jews... explain
that... or why did you occupy ethiopia... you know i
think for japanese people of today... most of them are
more preoccupied with the concernes of everyday life. i
will always defend though my position concerning certain
aspects of racism in japan because everyone has their own
phobias of different people as unhealthy as that maybe.
but everytime i visit japan today i hear about world war
2... okay we are aware that japan has done many bad things
in the past, but japan is moving forward and has not attacked
any nation since 1945...