JAPAN NEWS AND DISCUSSION
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- Core Developer - コアディベロッパー
- Midokura Japan K.K. - ミドクラジャパン株式会社, Tokyo
- Salary: ¥4.0M ~ ¥10.0M / Year Negotiable
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- Translator
- ZAIHON, Inc. (日本財務翻訳株式会社), Tokyo
- Salary: ¥6.0M / Year Negotiable
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- Assistant Language Teacher (ALT) in Kanto region
- RCS (RCSコーポレーション), Kanto
- Salary: ¥180,000 ~ ¥250,000 / Month includes performance bonus
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BeaverCleaver
Toecutter-"If you eroticize children, it is bound to stimulate some twisted idiots out there, who will in turn demand more of the same. The demand feeds the growth of the industry,"
Backupasecond. First you talk about "some" twisted idiots, then you go on to talk about how they fuel a whole industry and it spirals out of control?
Just how many such idiots do you think are out there? Or are their numbers going to spiral too? And all because of the junior idol industry and not the kids we see walking on the street and playing in the parks whether we want to or not?
I have been digging for information to prove an increase or decrease in child sex offenses since the big awareness campaign called the 1980's, including child porn offenses, and you know what I found? Nothing but a bunch of controversy on the question. So all I can say is: inconclusive. Your theory, my theory, anybody's theory. Its all best guesses. Even the extent of harm in cases that go far beyond just modeling are in serious question. I don't care how many confirmation biased people rose up to surpress psychological studies they did not like and also probably did not read.
So it really sticks in craw when people view another country and start making a hellofalotofnoise despite the fact they got nothing but guesses and rage and over-active imaginations. So again I say, if you don't like it leave. Come on back when you create utopia at home and all the conflicting evidence has been sorted on the theories you cling so dearly to proven, or not as may well be the case. In fact, given all the energy, money and even a very conspicuous lack of public outrage whenever an article or bit of research comes out that LFRAgain would approve of, I would say that the continued controversy proves just how flawed your case is and how you are most probably dead wrong about a majority of it.
Posted in: Innocence lost: the dark side of Akihabara
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BeaverCleaver
The poll is from Yahoo! Japan Research, not these reporters. The video says 500 men were polled but not say where or how. But a clear group of 500 men sounds like they were using established methods.
Its your right to question the messenger, but we all know it do your case a lot more good to find another poll rather than trash this one, while failure to do so reflects poorly.
Posted in: Innocence lost: the dark side of Akihabara
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BeaverCleaver
Cheney-"So you want to join Counterterrorism Club? OK. The first rule of Counterterrorism Club is you do not talk about Counterterrorism Club. The second rule of Counterterrorism Club is YOU DO NOT TALK ABOUT COUNTERTERRORISM CLUB. Rule three-If someone finds bin Laden, the fight is over. (we don't want that). Rule four-Two men to obey (me and George). Five-One government branch all the time.(executive).Six-No constitution, no disclosure. Seven-The club will go on as long as its not discovered by the new CIA director. Eight-If this is your first night at Counterterrorism club, you have to eavesdrop on the conversation of an innocent American single mother."
George- Where'd you go, psycho boy? Dick- I felt like destroying something beautiful.
Posted in: Cheney told CIA not to discuss counterterrorism program
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BeaverCleaver
womanforwomen-"BC glad you are reading up a lot on the subject. Please read up on fetishes also."
Why? When one-third of men in a country have the same interest, its not a fetish. I too was surprised by the poll, but it says what it says. In a country where related actions are illegal and jailable, but the interest is allowed and there is no griff inspired government or society of intolerance, one-third of men admit an interest in this. Do you think it was somehow forced upon them? Do you think its genetic? Do you imagine the Devil was at work here, or that pictures of underage girls have a powerful magic to them that makes men go lolicon? I think that scat pictures somehow lack that magic because I am sure one-third of men have no such interest!
Y'all got some s'plaining to do!
Posted in: Innocence lost: the dark side of Akihabara
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BeaverCleaver
griff-"seems a pretty key component of building a healthy and successful relationship with a member of the opposite sex"
Age is not a key. If a 50 year old has a relationship with an 18 year old, there is nothing inherently wrong with that and not legally either.
"the existence of material like this does nothing to assist this"
Not all fantasies or porn are geared toward procreation you know. Believe me, we do have a capacity for a wide range of fantasies and still procreate. We don't need such a firm hand as breeding stock.
Posted in: Innocence lost: the dark side of Akihabara
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BeaverCleaver
womanforwomen-"It can be cured, and sometimes even the patient understands that. Apparently, Isshie Sagawa attempted to get some medical treatment before he committed the crime afew years later"
This individual is posting about a man who ate the corpse of a fully grown woman he killed. Yeah, its a good thing my posts are getting so much attention. You know, because I so far off topic. Like with former child models. Well they are not current, so it must not count. But cannabalism? Not sure why I did bring that up myself.
Posted in: Innocence lost: the dark side of Akihabara
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BeaverCleaver
Who would like to have some information on former child models? Is it relavant? Of course it is. Brooke Sheilds. Yuka in the entertainment section of JT.
Posted in: Innocence lost: the dark side of Akihabara
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BeaverCleaver
griff-"there is every reason to suspect that if child exploitation was more strictly regulated in law then any existing tolerance for it would also dry up extremely quickly."
Quashing tolerance is completely secondary to the effects on children and to crimes against them. Completely secondary. If a little tolerance to the junior idol industry is what is keeping Japan's abuse rate lower than that of other countries, then, by God, tolerance is the way to go. Again, none of the Wars on X went as planned.
"another point that doesn't seem to have been discussed is the glaring point that grown men need to learn how to interact with women their own age."
Did you say "need"? No. They do not need to any such thing. It is not your business to try to force men to do such a thing. It might be your business to keep them away from children, but that is not the same thing. Its a separate matter.
Now, I can see where you might want to steer them that direction. I am all for steering them in that direction as long its not invasive, forceful or violating people's rights. So, rather than take something away, I suggest you add something to steer them that direction. Don't ask me why all that adult porn flooding the internet was not enough. But it seems it wasn't.
The video gives us a rate of 33 percent of people polled (all men?) had an interest in Lolita material. One third. That is a huge segment. One out of three! I will bet that most of them are plenty interested in and relating with adults of the opposite sex. This is just an extra interest.
Posted in: Innocence lost: the dark side of Akihabara
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BeaverCleaver
Well, I cannot be bothered to reply to or read the words being put into my mouth right now. But, unlike some people, I have been doing some reading. Now, as I am not here to try to prove a point, I will provide some links that both help and damage the case that some people insist on imagining I have. (Remember, if it has not been deleted, I did say even perceived pedos will be attacked by the hungry mob desperately seeking an enemy). I only want what is best for all. So enjoy.
The first is a video report from Japan about junior models and feelings about the industry. It is not safe for work. If that did not sink it, it is not safe for work. But it is straight from national TV and its relevant even if short on proof and long on opinion. http://www.japanprobe.com/?p=1688
Posted in: Innocence lost: the dark side of Akihabara
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BeaverCleaver
LFRAgain-"Said without a shred of empirical data....Where is your proof, sir, that prohibition of sexual exploitation of children drives it underground, making them "uglier and much harder to control."
Right here:
"Meanwhile, the numbers show that Japan is, in reality, a safe place for kids: there were 754 reported cases of sexual abuse in 2000, compared to 89,500 in the United States."
Don't say one word about not believing the data. I don't care. Its been your turn to show some empirical data for a long time now. The burden of proof has been on you since the beginning. Stop wasting our time and driving us in circles. Present your own data already.
Posted in: Innocence lost: the dark side of Akihabara
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BeaverCleaver
cleo-" I expected the obvious preposterousness of the statement reflecting your own arguments"
Only it does not reflect my arguments very well at all.
"We aren't all living in a fog, wondering when our partner is going to bring home a prepubescent girl "
I should think not! It is illegal you know! Just because it probably won't happen is proof that people seek to stay out of jail and seek to obey social norms. The fog you live in is that you do not know if your partner has an interest. He might. But it might be mild enough, or other interests strong enough, that he does not need this industry to soothe him. Verbalized strong denial of such an interest is standard modus operandi for non-pedos and pedos alike, much the same as a Republican in the closet, or toilet stall.
"Whatever your doll-loving student does with his inanimate objects is no one's business but his own"
Is it? If they were anatomically correct, they would be illegal. They would be called child porn. And as that defintion gets fatter all the time, one day, these dollies might be included as the junior idol industry is by many posters here. The concept of "what is child porn?" is getting sillier by the day and getting put into law too.
"Why would anyone want to take his dollies away?"
Like the junior idol industry, they would say it creates and fuels pedophilia. Given the attitudes toward the junior idol industry and the very strong desire to shut it down in this thread, I would not be surprised if it is shut down one day. The primary source of outrage seems to be with the heads of the customers, rather than anything to do with the children. If the industry is shut down, the customers and their heads will still exist. So where will the outrage go? Wherever the customers go, that's where. This guy and his dollies could be next, "because we know what he is thinking about and we are freaked out by it".
"and they all start drooling over live little girls that people get concerned. Live little girls are not dollies."
I think they know that. I think that is patently obvious. I think the fact is being ignored as people just look for something to rage against, and the popular vehicle of this age in the west is the pedophile, so anyone percieved as a pedophile is persecuted whether they actually did anything or not. Further, my last statement will not be taken at face value or logically accepted even if simply logically disagreed with. The pet peeve and outrage target will be just as irrationally defended and the logic will be rejected. Pedophiles are the social pariah of the west, and if they do not cross the line so we can smack them, the line will be redrawn. Anyone mistaken as a pedophile is in serious social danger. I run the risk just calling people out on their over-blown reaction to this topic.
Posted in: Innocence lost: the dark side of Akihabara
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BeaverCleaver
bushlover-"BeaverCleaver could you provide examples of the "abuse"?"
Abuse of trust and responsibility-lawmakers had never been apprised of its existence.
Abuse of the chain of command- Attorney General John Ashcroft, was not aware until March 2004 of the exact nature of the intelligence operations beyond wiretapping that he had been approving for the previous two and a half years
Abuse of the law-Yoo ignored the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, which had previously overseen federal national security surveillance.
Abuse of authority and the constitution- basically one person at the Justice Department, John Yoo, and Hayden and the vice president’s office were running a program around the laws that Congress passed, including a reinterpretation of the Fourth Amendment
All from the article. As for other less general abuses, we won't until the information is released, if it ever is. Given all the other larger abuses, you have no reason to believe that smaller more person ones do not exist, well, no good reason anyway.
Posted in: Bush surveillance program was massive, report says
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BeaverCleaver
bushlover-"First they say that you can't watch suspect groups"
Uh, no. Nobody said that. Watching suspect groups by following established rules and protocol and with clear oversight is A-ok with any American. Establishing secret spy orgs that massively abuse the power Congress gives you to wantonly spy on anybody you feel is not cool, unless you happen to be a Neo-con underling, in which case you either give a sappy grin and a thumbs up, or you accuse concerned Americans of hypocrisy via building a strawman argument.
Posted in: Bush surveillance program was massive, report says
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BeaverCleaver
Gombei424Canada-"Your posts are usually bang on, mon ami,
Thank you.
"I for one HOPE you aren't saying that the administration of Obama is keeping secrets from us the way that bush did.I could never believe something like that.Sorry."
The trouble is that he is the president, not the king. He is also not bullet-proof. Even if he were, he still cannot run the country but through other powerful and influential men. Come to think of it, even kings and queens have this trouble. This genie may not easily go back into the bottle. No matter your feelings about Obama, it is reasonable to think that Bush tied his hands, and he now has nothing but a list of bad options. If Obama goes for disclosure option and closes this whole thing down, and pisses off some high up guys in the process, who is going to protect him? The public?
We don't even know what they have on Obama! Remember even the CIA is not privy. These guys answered to Bush and Bush alone it seems. They may not be taking kindly to their new master, and its not like Congress has any clear authority over them. This could be a very nasty beast that bumbling junior has unleashed on the world, and even Obama might be powerless against it. This may be Mace Windu vs. Emperor Palpatine. We know how that turned out.
Posted in: Bush surveillance program was massive, report says
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BeaverCleaver
cleo-"...while I rolled off the boat just yesterday [/sarcasm off]"
The sarcasm is obvious. But you made a preposterous statement. Here it is again:
"So that means no westerners can possibly understand Japanese sexuality, even the ones that are in a long-standing sexual relationship with a Japanese. Right. We live our lives in a fog."
How do you expect me to respond to that? You make an absolute statement, "no westerner" when I obviously was not talking about all westerners, but western society in general. Then you make it even more preposterous by suggesting a long standing sexual relationship opens the door to understanding all of Japanese society's sexuality. Is this the argumentative version of throwing sand in someone's eyes? Its not helpful, even if it is more forgiving than LFRAgain's wild interpretations of my words.
I know you have been in Japan a long time. I know you have family and a life here. I know you are basing your opinion on many things. But look at what you have written.
Here is an anecdote from my long experience in Japan. One of my students has dolls that he displays and dresses. He attends shows to buy clothes for them. He seems just the type to also patronize these junior models. Is it all creepy to me? Yes. Especially the day he brought his dolls to class. I think maybe doubly creepy as I am a westerner and such interests would get you beaten up as a teen and universally reviled as an adult. But the guy is harmless I believe. But I don't want to test the theory by removing his paraphernalia. Do you?
Posted in: Innocence lost: the dark side of Akihabara
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BeaverCleaver
cleo-"The whole point of seduction is that the seduced party does consent, is enticed into consenting. If they don't consent it's rape, not seduction."
Yes cleo. Through trickery. And I do not approve of it. There may not be a concrete way to ensure that any man is ever sincere in his intents and affections, even if we did employ the old idea of forcing a marriage on him. Even these guys watching these girls perform and buying their DVDs, we can never know their exact intentions whether its just finding the girls adorable the same way as many women do, if its just a vehicle for nostalgia for their own younger years, or if its a fantasy you don't want to think about.
But whether you like it or not, some men are sincere and genuine and there have been oodles of them throughout history. I do not like that people like you would spit in their faces and make no effort at all to separate them from the ones that are not. Its not only unfair, its also dangerous. I am unhappy enough with folks like yourself taking this course to squash them all utterly as if they are one and the same in your own countries. That situation is why I am so adamant that if you do not like this aspect of Japan, go...tinker...at...home.
"That was exactly the case in those halcyon days when the age of consent was 14. "
After that you trouble me with details. When a perfectly good idea is misapplied by society, it is no less a perfectly good idea that cant be more appropriately applied by another society. Besides, times have changed. The necessity of marriage has waned, has have the dangers of sex. So, I would not apply the idea the same as they did. I am sure there ways to determine sincerity that are better than all the risks bans always entail. But do you know the glory of this industry? Even the guys with the most revolting fantasies and zero sincerity or affection may get their fix, and live and die without ever touching anyone. I can find no good reason to take that away.
Posted in: Innocence lost: the dark side of Akihabara
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BeaverCleaver
Sarge-"Can you prove that hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have died ( excluding the bad guys and people over 75 )? Thanks a whole lot in advance."
I don't need to. No matter how many you think died needlessly in Iraq, the general figure of hundreds of thousands is going to be a lot more accurate than saying Saddam killed millions.
Moderator: Comparisons to the Saddam era are irrelevant.
Posted in: Worst violence since U.S. pullback hits Iraq with 60 dead
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BeaverCleaver
Well, the right seems to be divided into two camps: those who believe the secrect surveillance progam worked and those who think it failed because it was not done enough. Heaven forbid any of them just think it just didn't work, and that Bush and his legions of Yes-men just could not easily and instantly top the systems and controls that were already in place. No, no. One flacid al-Quaida attack makes it past us, and we focus on al-Quaida. But then junior takes over, ignores memos, forgets all about al-Quaida and we get one single though large hardcore al-Quaida attack. Then suddenly we need a whole new system, privacy be damned. We cannot even consider the idea of human error. That would be insulting.
Unfortunately, the question of how many terrorist attacks have occurred in the U.S. since 9/11 is not the correct question. The correct question is "How many terrorist attacks has this invasive program potentially prevented?" Surely a list could be compiled telling us how many arrests and convictions utilized the information they gathered. Then we could have a second list showing how many arrests and convictions were related to ordinary methods. Then a third list showing arrests and convictions related to both. That would give us an idea of how many attacke were thwarted.
Oh, but they are not telling us. They are not giving us any indication whatsoever of the success of the program. Wonderful. Sounds very much like an American Gestapo. Just lovely.
Posted in: Bush surveillance program was massive, report says
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BeaverCleaver
Cleo-"LFRAgain is correct in everything he says about changes being the result of a social consensus. "
Nonsense. All he showed was complete ignorance of the way the world works. Right now, this industry is free. There is no law banning it or the will to tie it to existing laws at this time. The industry is enjoying freedom and it was not awarded by consensus. It was awarded by default. What might happen is that some people will organize interest groups to try to destroy the industry. Then politicians will take notice and see if they can get some political advantage by taking up the cause. If yes, they will push to ban it. If no, they will ignore it. Will the people of Japan be asked for social consensus? LOfreakingL!
Most of the people who will rise up to protect (defend, freedom fighters are almost always on the defensive) the industry will be those involved in it. But many of them will back down. There will be a few people like myself pushing against the mypotic moralizers. But it is extremely hard to fight the moralizers and panic button pushers and its nothing to do with consensus and nothing to do with fairness or evidence.
Posted in: Innocence lost: the dark side of Akihabara
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BeaverCleaver
I will bet most of these teen models feel empowered and liberated with their work. I will bet more self-esteem is generated than taken away, and like I said earlier, the Japanese way of doing things would be at the heart of that. At least, unlike the Little Miss You Better Win pageants, girls are not being pitted directly against other girls in fierce competition. That is the western way of doing things and Japanese do not subscribe.
Posted in: Innocence lost: the dark side of Akihabara