JAPAN NEWS AND DISCUSSION
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- Corporate Business English Trainers
- ACT Systems, Inc.（株式会社アクト・システムズ）, Tokyo
- Salary: ¥269,500 ~ ¥280,000 / Month
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- English Instructor (Osaka, Kyoto, Kobe)
- Berlitz Japan, Inc. (ベルリッツ・ジャパン株式会社), Kansai
- Salary: ¥125,000 ~ ¥250,000 / Month
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- FT English Teachers for Kids - Osaka
- Kohgakusha Co., Ltd. （株式会社興学社）, Osaka
- Salary: ¥255,000 ~ ¥275,000 / Month Travel Expenses, Encouragement of Japanese learning*
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BeaverCleaver
What did I say? I have a lot of experience in Japan, I have seen a lot of kids here exposed to very mild sex related things, such as nudity on DVD covers at the video store, stuff on TV, and being dressed in sexy ways moms decide to call "cute" etc. I used be just as appalled as some of the posters here. But not seeing any proof of damage (outside of some boy students going for my tackle for giggles or trying to give me a "kancho"). Its sad to see my words wiped away like that.
Posted in: Innocence lost: the dark side of Akihabara
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BeaverCleaver
cleo-"So that means no westerners can possibly understand Japanese sexuality, even the ones that are in a long-standing sexual relationship with a Japanese. Right. We live our lives in a fog."
You are blithely making absolute statements where unwarranted and projecting experiences with individual Japanese onto the whole society. You are doing your understanding of the topic no good at all.
It took me years Cleo, and I was always a top student. Most people are total suckers to their own moral base, and most of that was not put there by their own individual choice made after long periods of rational thought and weighing of evidence. This is high level stuff, and it took great minds to come up with terms like moral relativism and value pluralism and even they have difficulty explaining it and coming up with easy examples. Its a minefield of overlaps, and most people just give up trying to understand.
"Mmm. Hubby grew up here. He doesn't think it would have been a good idea for our daughter "
Your daughter? I was never talking about you or your daughter. We are talking about other people's daughters. That point means half your post was a waste of time for me to read.
My wife feels much the same if we ever have a daughter. But other's people's daughters? We are fine so long they are not being abused or exploited any more than so many other activities involving kids. We would never press our kids to be famous, or anything else. Nor do I expect our kids will desire fame. Others are different. Other parents press their kids for many things and nobody bats an eye unless the go overboard. Some kids genuinely desire fame, and they have every right to pursue it.
"Actually, no it wasn't. seduction of a girl over 12 and under 16 "of previously chaste character" was made an offence in 1886. "
Seduction is not consensual is it? I said consensual. I was not talking about coercion, trickery or seduction.
How you could construe the word consensual to mean acting on an empty promise of marriage is beyond me. And call me old fashioned but a genuine promise of marriage would be just fine. A whole lot becomes ok if a teenager is willing and steps are taken to ensure they are not being used, ie. parental supervision. Why, they can even watch rated PG-13 movies if a parent agrees!
I say supervise. Set rules for behavior. Establish guidelines. Everything that should be banned already has been. All else, including some of the banned things, can and should be worked with and not shelved. As rightly pointed out earlier, prohibitions often just drive things underground where they get far uglier and much harder to control. Darn near all things involving child sex already have been in the west, and look where it got you. You imagine the situation has improved? Japan is doing a lot better. Their example should be followed. And Japan needs to rollback some the recent "gaiatsu" created rules, before they go down the faulty path the west has.
Posted in: Innocence lost: the dark side of Akihabara
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BeaverCleaver
The driver was 19. He was a teen in name only. He was certainily no kid. If you do not know better than wait for the train to pass at 19, you won't be any different at 29. He already had a number of traffic violations too. I would say he was a world class idiot. His age is not amounting to an excuse of any kind.
Posted in: Attempt to beat train in Michigan ends 5 young lives
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BeaverCleaver
tkoind2-"There is more than ample evidence that sexual exploitation of children is morally wrong, unethical, contrary to the laws of most civilized nations and that it has long lasting and severe consequences for the victims."
You are so wrapped up emotionally in this issue you have no idea how intellectually and factually dishonest you are. Or, maybe you are doing it on purpose, because you think you are right and don't need evidence. So many Bushes here. No little WMD.
Again, lets see the proof that so many of these models are damaged. How many times must I ask for this?
Posted in: Innocence lost: the dark side of Akihabara
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BeaverCleaver
Many westerners have some very deep phobias concerning sex. Homophobia is an obvious one. We see a lot of Japanese guys acting very effeminate on the TV and elsewhere. We don't see that in the west so much. Also, there is the extreme reaction to anything sexual and kids. Westerners freak when they walk in the video store and see video covers of naked people and sexual situations at kid's eye level. Kids and teens flash their panties accidentally and on purpose such as as a result of sitting on the floor or ground and westerners are severely shocked and think something has to be done to stop that. I used to be like that. No longer.
The proof is in the pudding. Most everyone here is going off assumption after assumption after assumption about how even the most mild of sexually charged situations and scenes are going to utterly destroy children. They are running with it, despite little proof and despite the fact that in their own cultures comparable situations exist, its just that the facade is different. Again I point to cheerleading. You think the guys yelling "Go Bears!" along with the cheerleaders are all that different than the ones here yelling "Mana-chan!"? Again I point to Little Miss You Better Win or Else Pageants. You think they are not being pressured and paraded in ways that are sexually charged while grown men oggle them and fantasize? Same same. Just the facade is different. The Japanese facade is that of being a TV or movie star. The western facade is helping the team on the field or a family event. The facade is not totally fake in any of those cases. But you have to be very moral-centric to no see the sexuality. It seems to be a great part just a psychological trick to help you over-look it, and the Japanese one does not work for you because you grew up elsewhere.
Its not only or even mostly the photographers or the fans that take away their self esteem. Quite the oppposite. Its the people who get all holier than thou and call it dirty, perverted, unfit, etc. who lower the model's self-esteem more than anyone. Is it that hard to see? Certainly those who push children to perform make them feel bad. But its the fire and brimstone people who make the ones that felt good about it feel bad.
"Most of my family are Japanese and I cannot find a single one of them who would consider it OK"
Maybe you should try asking people who don't already know your opinion and feel free to disagree with you. And try asking in a neutral fashion. People entrenched on this issue have a lot of trouble acting neutral for the sake of getting the truth.
Posted in: Innocence lost: the dark side of Akihabara
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BeaverCleaver
LFRAgain, explain to me how you are tying teen crime to this idol industry. I cannot be bothered to reply to you until you come up with some convicing explanation for that. Are there some Jon Benet Ramsey in reverse cases that I don't know about here in Japan?
Posted in: Innocence lost: the dark side of Akihabara
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BeaverCleaver
womanforwomen-" But wrong guess, I am no where close to the eduaction sector!"
What are you talking about?
Posted in: Innocence lost: the dark side of Akihabara
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BeaverCleaver
BurakuminDes-"Parents have to understand that while they think it looks "Kawaii" to let their kids dress up as women, perverts out there can and will take advantage of this."
Strange but true, even in places where they do not do this, kids still get taken advantage of! Imagine that! Even if you refuse to believe the stats for Japan, the stats for America remain at 89,500 in 2000.
Posted in: Innocence lost: the dark side of Akihabara
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BeaverCleaver
tkoind2-"Further. It does not make sense to validate the perversions of these men and their sick need for oogle children by making this both available and legal."
I have no need to validate it. It is a fact of life whether you like it or not. There is no magic spell to make it go away.
"Especially when most of the civilized world realizes that children should not be subjected to such behavior nor should adults entertain such sick fantacies."
If you do not like it leave. The kids grow up. If they do not see a reason for it to change when they do, then it does not need to. You are free to enjoy your morality at home. Go there and leave Japan alone.
"We are talking about children who are subjected to a process that leads to childhood exposure to danger and psychological damage."
What danger? Is this more dangerous than riding a bicycle or crossing the street? Really short on specifics aren't you? Psychological damage? Is this worse than failing a test? Or having your father yell at you? Man, you make a lot of claims. But your proof is so lacking. Like I keep saying, find the proof, then talk.
"The parents of these kids are to blame in that they are willing to trade the childhood of these young girls for money and the remote chance of fame."
How melodramatic! Trade their childhood? Man, I had to carry water from a spring when I was like seven, all by myself too. I did not even get paid for it. Oh, my poor childhood! Look man, kids are going to do a whole lot things just because their parents order it. Juku, camping trips, visits to their reviled Aunt Witchy-poo. Life is tough. Modeling would be a cakewalk compared some things I went through.
"We have heard about the lives of ex-AV stars that led to drugs, prostitution and more. We have seen the problem with enjo kosai in Japan and we can all see the sick old guys on trains reading fantacy manga about raping school girls."
What you need are some figures to back up your fire and brimstone. Like I said earlier, one case of DV does not make all marriage evil. You do not need to be ex-AV to do any of those things. How endemic is the "problem"? Rape fantasy manga does not lead to real rape. And none of it is jack to do with the idol industry. If you had direct evidence you would have presented it. You don't, so dispense with the charade of relevance made ever thinner by absent data for that too.
"Why you and nicegaijin seem so oblivious to the obvious problem here is beyond me."
Because you cannot point to a direct problem with anything of substance to back it up. All you got is your over-active imagination.
Posted in: Innocence lost: the dark side of Akihabara
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BeaverCleaver
womanforwomen-"Japan's kids are doing just fine without you all. The proof is all around.
Really? you sure are not in Japan then. Maybe in some dreamworld."
Funny coming from you! LOL! No one has demonstrated thier life in a dream world any better than you! In fact, I have taught elementary school kids and junior high school students in many different locations in Japan off and on for 16 years! The only cases of abuse I know of were few and mild. And let me tell you that teachers and school nurses and principals can be pretty nosy and they sure talk a lot at meetings.
Posted in: Innocence lost: the dark side of Akihabara
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BeaverCleaver
kirakira25-"I know we were all over the age of consent (because we have laws prtotecting young girls in the UK) but I saw the psychology being used on these girls and their parents and sometimes by their parents."
And I am against coercion. And I do think there should be protections from it. But I am not good with the lazy and unimaginative answer of "ban it". Something you did not tell us in your post is whether you thought any of those that "succummed" would be any different at 30 or 40 if there was any real market for them at that age. Its certainly not always coercion. Some girls are made for this, just like some girls are going to be the town bicycle and like it whether you think its right or not.
Some of you seem to be living in a dreamland where you think you can bend all young minds to be saints. Personalities are pretty well set by 13. At that age, I think its pretty overbearing to tell them what they can and cannot do and just wash your hands of it.
Another thing I think you overlooked is all the other competions and similar things. Cheerleadering has some nasty injuries. Competetion can be fierce and bitter. And tell me the skirts and cartwheels are not getting a lot of male hearts racing. Plain old sports too. I would say any girl has more of chance at a career with this, than say, volleyball. And less chance of sustaining a serious injury. Its not "wholesome". Yech! I hate that word.
Posted in: Innocence lost: the dark side of Akihabara
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BeaverCleaver
What is with this "unstable girl" business? I doubt she would have done this if McNair had been playing his game right. Affairs are just fine in my book, but there are right ways and wrong ways to go about them. Sounds like McNair was doing it a wrong way. Sounds like he pushed her over the edge as much as she might have been close to it.
When a woman has marriage on her mind and she is eyeing you, you got to get that sorted a.s.a.p. You do not lead a woman on about that. You do not let her flit around thinking the wrong thing. Heck, you can even have an affair and hide your marriage, but you got to lay down the fact that marriage is not going to happen, and there are a million excuses. Such a course is also risky, but not as bad as letting your mistress think you are marriage potential and then not deliver.
Posted in: Police: McNair shot dead in sleep by girlfriend
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BeaverCleaver
Better ban long knives. Again. For good measure.
Posted in: 13-year-old Shimane boy in police custody after admitting to killing father with fishing knife
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BeaverCleaver
L4dymercury-"And there's no way you can compare movie acting to U-15 Junior Gravure modeling. There's no way."
There are many ways. Most kids who try for movie acting fail. There are your empty promises. There are guys out there getting a sexual thrill from those movies. Remember the movie Leon with Natalie Portman? She was like 12. You think some guys were not salivating over some of those scenes? And the parents pushing the children? Yep, that happens in both too. I cannot say which has more Joe Jackson/ Mommy Dearest type stories though. But I have a suspicion its the Little Miss You Better Win Or Else pageants.
"I do not see Dakota Fanning running around on the beach, on all fours seductively looking at the camera."
As long as its not remotely sexual, then its all good? Not even. When I was a kid, we played doctor. We got our hands on porn mags and hid them under a bridge for occasional viewing. We even sometimes kissed the girls. Some of us even flirted with adults. I can only imagine someone like you would have tanned our hides for such behavior and scared and scarred us so bad that we would feel guilty about sex even as adults and have some good old dysfunction to boot.
You too are welcome dredge up that resevoir of books and blogs written by the kids when they grow up, because, just like Saddam's WMD, they just have to be out there, right?
Posted in: Innocence lost: the dark side of Akihabara
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BeaverCleaver
tkoind2-"nicegaijin, your arguments are clearly indicative of either anarchist or extreme right anti-government sentiments and in now way reflect the reality of modern civilization."
tkoind2, you arguments are a combination of shreiking and extreme exaggeration and completely unfair comparisons. I especially love your line of "protect the children". From what? From exploitation? Well lets wait three years for when Saaya Irie hits 18, that magic age when the blinders society puts on kids and teens somehow fall away, and all that was once hidden is there to be seen, and suddenly they are able to make proper choices and see the past for what it was. When she starts writting books and blogs about how she was exploited and how she regrets her bikini poses etc, then, you will have some ammuntion. But one girl claiming expoitation will not be enough. If it were, one case of DV would be enoughto declare marriage an evil practice! No, you will need more, many, many more examples. In fact, others have already come of age. So where are those blogs and books? Come on, oh white knight for the kids, where are the victims? I think your efforts would be better directed a Nike and Disney than nisegaijin or this industry, unless you were trying to set yourself up as a modern Don Quixote.
"It is hardly totalitarian to enforce rules that reflect the majority will of the people and their moral code of conduct. "
Unless you can prove damage and detriment to society, you are violating rights without good cause. With regard to both, you have no evidence and no case. In contrast, there are easily things more damaging to children out there. We can only take even bothering to waste you time with this as something other than a genuine concern for the children. Even if it were real, it is sorely misplaced. You seriously need to reflect on why this bothers you so much while you have only guesses about the models feel.
"You need to spend some time with parents"
This and the "you don't understand because you are not a parent" load of absolute garbage! How did it escape your attention that ALL these models have the approval of a parent? I will tell you how. More emotion than sense. More intense effort to see what you want see rather than calm down and view this with a steady eye.
This thread is full of people who are upside-down, inside-out and backwards on this subject. Japan's kids are doing just fine without you all. The proof is all around. You all need to stick to messing up your own country's kids and leave Japan alone. Look at it as a proving ground. Because one day, you will wake up to that that its been proving you wrong.
Posted in: Innocence lost: the dark side of Akihabara
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BeaverCleaver
nisegaijin-"So in my view if parents or legal guardian choose to send their kids to coal mines or to prostitution, as much as I would be against it, i think it's still their right. On the bright side, it cleans the gene pool."
You cannot mean that nisegaijin. Perhaps if you inserted the idea that the kid agreed and at least got a session with a third party counselor first? I could accept that. But we all know that most kids are not going to do either anyway. Those that do though, they are not going to grow up and become saints anway, so after so many tests, the agreement of parents, the desire of the child, and a counselor making massive efforts at dissuation, it seems pretty silly for an outsider to go throwing up a legal blockade, downright anti-freedom even.
Posted in: Innocence lost: the dark side of Akihabara
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BeaverCleaver
nisegaijin is making plenty of sense. His many detractors are shrieking and exaggerating in failed attempts to make a point. Good on you nisegaijin for holding your ground against the waves of misplaced outrage and unwarranted attacks upon you.
Posted in: Innocence lost: the dark side of Akihabara
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BeaverCleaver
Innocence lost? What an unnecessary title. There is no need to pump this issue with emotion. The thread shows just how out of proportion with emotion the topic is and even being sensible with the title won't help much but would be an improvement.
When is innocence lost? Its when a child stops streaking about the house because we have taught him or her to be ashamed of their bodies. Breaking down that barrier is not a loss of innocence. Its a return to some normalcy through loss of an imposed inhibition that people felt no shame putting there. I imagine that inhibition is lost easier in the teens than the 20s, more in the 30s, and then become easier again as people older start to not care about anything. I remember when I first removed the clothing of a 20 year old virgin. She had no objection but her eyes were as wide as saucers. I put it off for another day. But people are not supposed to be like that. Its not an empowering trait to be so ashamed and embarrassed you know. Its certanly not natural. Its imposed. And its disempowering.
The article talks about the model being "dazed and sheepish". For bikini modeling? You think some kids in the Sears catalouge were not the same? You think the girls in the little Miss Whatever pageants in the U.S. were not the same? And get on Youtube. You will find teens and younger making their own videos. Some love to be the center of attention. If they like it and want to do it, the parents approve and their genitals are covered, why do you care so much? I will answer for you if you do care. Its not about the kids. Its about the guys watching. That is all you really care about.
And there are many extreme assumptions about the guys. A few crime articles and some people assume all are that way. People think almost exclusively from their gut on this issue, and their conclusions are about as sound as the conclusion that Saddam had WMDs. In fact, most of these guys are harmless, are satisfied with their bikini shots and fantasies, and never touch a kid. I don't care how high and mighty your idealism about this is, its pie in the sky. You will never have it. Your own countries are probably trying to implement the ideals as we speak. I would say they are wasting your money, your energy, and actually making things worse for your kids. The proof is Japan, whether its the numbers or just lookinging around.
You want more proof? Leave Japan alone. Pack your things and go. If Japan is so under-reported and this is such a huge and widespread problem, then sooner or later, something has got to give without your intervention. Japanese women are becoming more big mouthed and bossy all time, just like we westerners always wanted apparently. So any time now, expect to see massive blog space about how child sex offenses are under-reported by them, the insiders who would not be guessing quite as much. Wait for that proof, then act. And if you feel Japan is such a danger to your children in the present, you know perfectly well that change will not happen overnight. Your kids will be grown by the time there is a change. So get them and yourself out now, and keep waiting for the bombshell that blows this issue wide open in Japsn that never happens.
If there is going to be bombshell, its going to be how other countries grossly over-reacted to the issue on extreme and usually unwarranted senseless emotion. Its going to be about how for decades now, they have just been making things worse while somehow selling the ridiculous notion that Japan was so bad. Not in your best scape-goating wet dreams. Bye, and have a nice flight.
Posted in: Innocence lost: the dark side of Akihabara
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BeaverCleaver
Zurc-"I am so grateful to the senile McCain, who I voted for in 2000 when he was still lucid"
In the primaries? I would have voted for him myself if he had made it to the race.
"The republicants need to find someone new, if there is anyone left, to fly the kamikazi flight in 2012 against the towering and successful Obama."
Don't be so sure. The Republicans are correct in stating that the economy will be an issue. Obama has been painted as "the magic negro" ( the mysterious black man who comes to the aid of the troubled white character in so many movies) but it is going to take a lot of magic to turn this plummetting bus around. My view is that nobody could do it. Nobody. But if the economy of Alaska booms for whatever reason, they will credit Palin in some way or another. A lot can happen in 3 and half years. Palin regaining credibility is possible. The nation's economy turning around? I don't think so. And the fickle public will look for someone to blame if the economy does not turn around. Just you wait and see.
Posted in: Palin links resignation to 'higher calling'
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BeaverCleaver
yabits, as I posted elsewhere, conservatives have major trouble with NPOV. Nobody is perfect with regards to that, but nobody does family bias like a conservative. They do it like there is no tomorrow. Thank goodness for the internet and modern recording technology, because its hard to remember all the hypocrisy, in fact, I prefer to forget lest it make me bitter! But thanks to modern tech, I can call it all up fast and not have to drag it around whereever I go.
"For some reason J.T isn't allowing my links to work."
Thank you for trying Sailwind, but I believe you. No need for the link. You are a man of your word. That does not mean I believe every word, as we all make mistakes, but if you say you did it and said you checked it, I believe you did. No sweat.
"I'd say right after 9/11 most people were showing their love for our flag and country"
I would agree that they were trying. (Very trying in fact!) But they got caught up in the moment and they lost their sense. That is my core problem. Sense is paramount for a leader, even if its the leader of a small town, but particularly an ambitious one. Sure, she did not know the future then, but I guarantee you she was dreaming big, and would say odds are that ambition was more than half of her reason for using the flag like a blanket.
Posted in: Palin links resignation to 'higher calling'