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JopinionAug. 08, 2012 - 02:15PM JST
"In case #2 where the convicted could be innocent, you can't bring the death penalty ANYWAY, since the verdict is not "watertight""
Neither can you put someone into prison for life if innocent - where did I say otherwise? - please quote case #2?
That fact is both happened in real life where it shouldn`t.
Posted in: Japan hangs two death-row inmates
JopinionAug. 08, 2012 - 02:09PM JST
"Jopinion, you can't say that life imprisonment is "more cruel" than the DP while at the same time saying that life imprisonment is not enough of a punishment. That makes no logical sense."
"more cruel" - I did not make that claim - a DP opponent did (check the posts) - I just hold this argument against him.
But just for an argument - even if I did say that theoretically, though I did not - I am still in support of the DP because of the tax issue explained in my earlier comments (and again all on the basis of watertight cases).
JopinionAug. 08, 2012 - 01:53PM JST
"unlike the death penalty you can reverse the act."
That was my question - how to reverse the act in other words compensate (if you possibly could do that, that you have to ask people like Mainali and yourself if you were in that situation) but you are again unwilling to answer - I never made the claim that I would put innocent people in prison or execute them - I need watertight cases - simple as that. I do not even need to defend the DP because I (personally find it morally OK) - but here is my 2 cents: Compensate innocent people like Mainali or similar generously - financially and socially in any way you can - that is the social cost for all of us even more so where society is tolerating low standards and flaws in it`s legal system - punish hard those that contributed to the verdict (in the Mainali case apparently a mean spirited prosecutor withholding evidence) - make the system transparent so as to eliminate such mistakes (and this is not unique to Japan), but again all this may not even make up in the slightest to the loss of freedom, suffering endless days etc. of the innocent in prison but we should try!
JopinionAug. 08, 2012 - 01:07PM JST
"life imprisonment is less harsh than the death penalty."
See Thomas, the problem is the DP opponents feel morally safe when objecting to the DP yet they have trouble explaining why life imprisonment is morally better even though for some this is "more cruel" (or check the previous posts of DP opponents for variations on this), so this must be even more cruel etc. for somebody innocent wrongfully convicted in prison for some even a very long time - well if it`s less harsh for you (personally) would you care to explain how to compensate an innocent convicted who nevertheless suffered, even though less harsh? Take the Mainali or similar case if you want.
JopinionAug. 08, 2012 - 12:12PM JST
"so you think that you can use the DP in "water tight cases", but not for life imprisonment?"
I never implied anything like that, I think that in watertight cases life imprisonment for killers is an inappropriate and insufficient punishment - yet you once again evaded my question.
JopinionAug. 08, 2012 - 11:25AM JST
"you're using the same argument that is used against you to support your own argument"
What`s wrong with this - I made it clear that I support the DP in water tight cases and I do not when in doubt - still I have yet to see one answer from the DP opponents why their proposed life imprisonment instead is less barbaric when an innocent person is convicted and what they offer to do about it. Hence my question about compensation.
JopinionAug. 08, 2012 - 10:09AM JST
"Given cases like Mainali's and the Japanese man who was in jail for decades then found to be innocent, it is just plain ridiculous that anyone would support the death penalty."
In the case of innocence the DP is barbaric, but how can someone support life imprisonment instead, how do you compensate the wrongfully convicted (innocent) victim for that (say after decades of prison)?
JopinionAug. 08, 2012 - 07:55AM JST
"he didn't have the 'right',"
So what is then appropriate for society to do with him (according to you)?
JopinionAug. 08, 2012 - 07:41AM JST
"Ultimately, no one has the right to kill... "
But Hattori did - what is your opinion on this?
JopinionAug. 07, 2012 - 11:55PM JST
"So the DP being cheaper is wrong, you can google the figures."
In the case of Hattori and many others your statement is unsupported - at 40 he is dead now and free of charge to society - you can do your own calculation how much tax money society would have to waste, if he would have been kept in prison and survived another 2, 5, 10, 20 or even 40 years. Still not convinced that the DP is cheaper - at least in Japan?
JopinionAug. 07, 2012 - 01:02PM JST
Valid question, don`t you think?
JopinionAug. 07, 2012 - 08:38AM JST
I have done my fair amount of research on this and found nothing conclusive (either pro or contra a correlation) because any before/after analysis is inherently flawed as murder crimes are random events. So I give you the benefit of doubt - there may be no correlation.
Fact is that we have to deal with the high number of those for who no form of punishment has been a deterrent - neither the prospect of being hanged for Hattori nor the prospect of being put in prison for up to 21 years for the Norway killer - which leads me to my 2nd question - what is an appropriate punishment - for you the DP is barbaric and yet too easy at the same time - "Life imprisonment (proper life), solitary confinement are all terrible punishments" but so they are not barbaric - isnt revenge always part of the equation when we talk about justice? Why do DP opponents then want to punish so hard if it hasnt been a deterrent nor do they want revenge?
t revenge always part of the equation when we talk about justice? Why do DP opponents then want to punish so hard if it hasn
JopinionAug. 07, 2012 - 07:29AM JST
"There is no proven correlation between DP and murder rates."
That is what I am saying we cannot prove it (we can only speculate), but the same holds true for life imprisonment and murder rates.
"I tend to think that being allowed to die (and hence cease to exist) is too easy for th murderer."
So if it`s too easy, what are you after then, if not revenge?
JopinionAug. 06, 2012 - 09:29PM JST
"For all the people that support capital punishment do you feel it's OK for the innocent ones THAT have been executed in the past and will no doubt be executed in the future..........."
At the risk of repeating myself, but since I made my mark as a DP supporter, the answer to your question is a crystal clear NO (it`s not OK) and I doubt the majority in favor of the DP would accept innocent people to be executed as collateral damage - but it happens - sadly - I have my own extreme view what to do with law enforcement who knowingly and willfully manipulate evidence to come to a wrong verdict executing an innocent person (out of convenience or because they are simply corrupt).
The DP is for watertight cases, like the Akihabara killer or the Norway killer etc., but in that case I say go for the DP full force without if and but etc.
What I am missing in all that discussion for or against the DP - particularly from the DP opponents (some of whom who support but ironically find life imprisonment far more cruel) - is how do you compensate somebody who was wrongfully accused and put in jail.....and released as innocent after many years if not decades - some of the DP opponents seem to believe you simply can undo (compared to the DP) - I dont think its possible to undo this either.
t think it
JopinionAug. 06, 2012 - 04:53PM JST
"Who should pay? "
Food for thought - every tax dollar spent on keeping a killer in prison (for sometimes a very long time) is a tax dollar less for a good cause..............compensating the victims, nursing homes, cancer research, education etc. etc. etc. - so who is willing to pay for the killer? No need to respond - just ask yourself (and do not cheat)!
JopinionAug. 06, 2012 - 03:32PM JST
Thank you - I guess we all feel better now - PeaceWarrior your list was not impolite but out of context and did not support your alleged contradictions.
JopinionAug. 06, 2012 - 02:59PM JST
Disagree as much as you want, but how do my comments above contradict myself, unless you take them out of context?
JopinionAug. 06, 2012 - 01:38PM JST
"You are saying that the DP is a deterrent when it has been shown not the be a deterrent."
Please refer to my first and following comments - the DP (as well as any other punishment) has not been a deterrent for those dedicated killers who committed their crime, otherwise we wouldn`t have this discussion - in the context of my above comments it is a deterrent for me and I "believe" for other normal people as well (regardless of the existence of many other deterrents before that) - This is a yes or no question - if you cannot answer (the question of whether the DP is a deterrent for you) either with yes or no, then you are evading the question.
For the rest - the grey zone of uncommitted murders (possibly due to the existence of the DP), the effectiveness of the DP is almost impossible to judge - see my first comment on this!
"I don't actually have to contradict you, you seem to be doing a good job of that yourself."
So please quote where I contradicted myself!
JopinionAug. 06, 2012 - 12:47PM JST
You may disagree with me but your comment was meaningless - stay on topic and contradict me if you can.
JopinionAug. 06, 2012 - 12:18PM JST
"If there are other things that stop you killing people (and I hope there are), then the DP is not a deterrent- you've already been deterred by those other things."
That is twisted logic, regardless of many other factors (deterring me before that) the DP as such is still a deterrent, even though I won`t get that far. Cannot be that difficult to understand.
May. 25, 2013 - 07:39AM JST
No, it wasn't a "divine punishment" as the editorial says, but the result of hatred toward…
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May. 25, 2013 - 07:36AM JST
Hashimoto is a reminder that all politicians in all countries are scum and have a single,…
Posted in: Hashimoto regrets meeting cancelation; wants to apologize to U.S.
May. 25, 2013 - 07:33AM JST
Can't he just apologize without adding more obnoxious comments?
May. 25, 2013 - 07:30AM JST
Oh, he was drunk? Well, it's okay then...
Posted in: Judo official admits to sexual harassment claims
May. 25, 2013 - 07:23AM JST
Big brother is always watching, fool!
Posted in: Canadian man arrested at Narita airport for stealing camera