JAPAN NEWS AND DISCUSSION
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Muchakucha
LostinNagoya: :-) Even if a cult advocated free love, free beer, non-stop fun, self-enlightenment, kindness, respect and charity to fellow (male) cult members, but which stated I should beat my wife and kill people who leave the cult, I would class it as an evil cult and give it a wide berth.
Not in Islamic countries, you'd get flogged! All part of the 'beautiful' Islamic doctrine.
Posted in: Can Islam and the Western world coexist peacefully?
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Muchakucha
Lostinnagaya:
You still don't get it. Please explain how Jesus' teachings inspire the IRA. You can't. Whereas Mohammed's teachings directly inspire Islamic terrorists.
I'm not projecting them, Islamic terrorists are. If it hadn't been for 9/11 and subsequent atrocities, most of the western world still be completely oblivious to the 'negative aspects' of Islamic doctrine. Prior to 9/11 I had know idea such a brutal ideology still existed. I think you should blame the terrorists and Islamic 'extremists', not those who oppose their brutal ideology.
Posted in: Can Islam and the Western world coexist peacefully?
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Muchakucha
LostinNagoya:
I'm a secularist agnostic.
The bishop is not quoting Christian doctrine, he is explaining his own beliefs, ludicrous as they may be. The same is not true of Islamic 'extremists' like Bin Laden, the Taleban, or Anjem Choudhary. They quote the Koran and Hadiths directly, exclusively and accurately. And yet we're told they're 'distorting' Islam. Note that it's usually not Muslims who say they're distorting Islam; it's 'infidel' Islamic apologists who say so. Apparently they think they know more about Islam than Islamic clerics do.
That was 500 years ago. And again, nothing in Christian doctrine advocated it. Try to find anything in Jesus' teachings that advocates violence. A similar search of the Koran yields the prophet Mohamed himself urging his followers to violence or many occasions.
You seem to fail to be able to make the distinction between a religious doctrine (the 'holy texts') and the actions of individuals who claim to be acting in the name of religion.
It's Islamic doctrine, clear and unequivocal, and which we're told cannot be changed, which causes problems.
Posted in: Can Islam and the Western world coexist peacefully?
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Muchakucha
Lostinnagoya:
These are not 'ancient laws', they are part of modern Islam, as practised whereever there is Islamic jurisprudence. Islamic clerics and scholars tell us these laws cannot be modernised. And tell me, where is this modernisation happening? In Saudi? In Iran?
You seem to deliberately avoiding the point. I never suggested that Muslims cannot be good people. I claim that parts of Islam doctrine are barbaric and should be challenged. For example, your Muslim friends, (and mine), are contravening Surah Al-Maidah : Ayat 51 by simply being friends of infidels. And what's more, you seem to agree with me that Islamic laws needed modernising. So what's the problem?
I too have Muslims friends and acquaintances. Most don't agree with large areas of barbaric Islamic doctrine, whereas some tell me that stoning of women for adultery is correct. It's the doctrine which is at fault. Why else would a sane person come to believe that stoning for adultery is justified?
BTW, do you really divide the world into 'Muslims' and 'land-robbers' ?
Posted in: Can Islam and the Western world coexist peacefully?
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Muchakucha
LostinNagoya:
You think wife-beating and the slaying of infidels and apostates is beautiful?
Certainly, the Koran preaches kindness and charity, but only to other Muslims! Non-Muslims must be converted, subjugated or defeated in battle.
And your history lesson is laughable. Islam is a martial ideology created by a warlord. It's been at almost constant war with its neighbours for 1400 years; from its initial conquest of the Arabian Peninsula, Jersualem and Palestine (which sparked the Crusades), North Africa, Spain and Portugal, eastern India... its war machine never rested. Only when the rest of the world began to modernise did Islamic military conquest cease (since Islam and modernisation are incompatible.)
Islam cannot coexist peacefully with anything that isn't Islam. It needs to change for sake of everyone.
Posted in: Can Islam and the Western world coexist peacefully?
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Muchakucha
Some even allow homosexuality?
Do they really?
Damning praise, smithinjapan. And of little comfort to homosexuals in Saudi, Iran, Somalia, Yemen, the Swat Valley etc. But Islamic aplogists who value their PC credentials above all else seldom care a jot for the victims of Islam.
Posted in: Can Islam and the Western world coexist peacefully?
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Muchakucha
No, it doesn't. Please understand the difference between the Old and New Testaments. Even an athiest like me knows that Christians follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, who poured scorn that kind of babaroc Old Testament stuff, and as a consequence got himself executed. Not unlike people who openly disagree with Islamic doctrine today.
You're correct here though.
Posted in: Can Islam and the Western world coexist peacefully?
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Muchakucha
mareo2: you're quite correct in that Christians have murdered for religious reasons. But I say again, this is inspite of Jesus' teachings. Muslim extremists commit violence because of Mohammed's teachings. It's difficult to apply the Koran to the modern world because it contains so many ideas which are at odds with modern civilisation. The same is not true of other religions.
The Taleban are doing this very successfully. And the Saudi regime is utterly mediaeval.
No. The answer is for Islamic authorities to declare that Islam's more barbaric teachings are to be consigned to history. Muslims should have the chance to leave Islam, and Islamic clerics should accept the secular law of the countries they live in rather than trying to implement barbaric sharia law. Other religions seem to be able to modernise, integrate and coexist peacefully with democracy, and it's time for Islam to do the same. Unfortunately, Islam is going the other way.
This is because it's still officially secular.
Pakistan is a failed state which is about to be completely overrun by the Taleban and thereby become the first Islamic Fundamentalist nuclear state.
Posted in: Can Islam and the Western world coexist peacefully?
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Muchakucha
mareo2:
Certainly. Just because one is born a Muslim it doesn't necessarily mean one actually agrees with Islamic doctrine 100%. Islamic doctrine calls for death for people who turn away from Islam, but I seriously doubt if the majority of Muslims who've been brought up in western countries sincerely believe that this is morally right. However, because Islamic doctrine is so inflexible and strict, it's almost impossible for Muslims to criticise it without putting their own lives in danger. Free-thinking Muslims are actually victims of Islam.
Posted in: Can Islam and the Western world coexist peacefully?
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Muchakucha
There have been violent Christians inspite of the teachings of Jesus whereas Islamic doctrine and its prophet itself advocates violence. Why is that so difficult to understand?
It's because the call to violence is there in the Koran, in black and white, and cannot be changed (at least, that's what Islamic scholars say) that Islam is incompatible with civilised society.
Posted in: Can Islam and the Western world coexist peacefully?
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Muchakucha
As (most) societies have become enlightened (democracy, religious freedom, gender equality, gay rights etc etc) they've been able to coexist with the major religions (Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism etc) because nothing in those religions' teachings is an insurmountable obstacle to progess. And even if some unenlightened attitudes persist, such as some religions' reluctance to fully accept gay rights, at least homosexuals aren't actually persecuted in the name of those religions. Contrast that to Islam, where homosexuals are not only denied equal rights, they can be executed - and often are in places like Iran and Saudi Arabia where Islam has achieved its goal of being the only jurisprudence.
Posted in: Can Islam and the Western world coexist peacefully?
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Muchakucha
mareo2: the question isn't whether Muslims can coexist with the west, it's can Islam can coexist with the west.
Posted in: Can Islam and the Western world coexist peacefully?
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Muchakucha
Ah so: since you have religious texts at your fingertips you'll probably be aware that the violence of the Old Testament was rejected 2000 years ago by a religious figure with the initials JC. The main reason that Islam can't coexist peacefully with the West, or any civilized society, is that the message of violence it began to teach 1400 years ago has never changed. It's a real now as it ever was. Another factor is that Islam is a complete ideology, not a religion. Islam is the law. Allah is the lawmaker. Democracy cannot funtion in that scenario. And it's not just the West- even model Islamic 'democracies' like Pakistan are failing, for the simple reason that Islam and democracy don't mix.
Posted in: Can Islam and the Western world coexist peacefully?
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Muchakucha
Name another religion that clearly advocates wife-beating and the death penalty for apostacy.
Posted in: Can Islam and the Western world coexist peacefully?
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Muchakucha
What you said contains many truths but is in no way at odds with what Sarge said.
And besides, we all know the oil rich Arab states are now in a position to control world finances. Mega-rich Saudi is leveraging its financial might to have Sharia imposed in Europe (it's already in parts of the UK.) The US adminstration may have changed, but the goals of Islam remain the same.
Posted in: Clinton tells Asia: America is under new management
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Muchakucha
Naturally, murder and domestice violence occurs all over the world.
However, DV is a particular problem in the Muslim community because the Koran specifically states that beating one's wife is permitted. (Verse 4:34 - go and check it.) Killing a fellow Muslim is forbidden however.
And even the most Islam-accommodating apologist will have noticed the Islamic predeliction for beheading. That's because in the Islamic world, emulating Mohummad is considered a holy act, and Mohummad personally beheaded hundreds of prisoners.
Posted in: New York TV exec accused of beheading wife after she files for divorce
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Muchakucha
smith: I now believe that you understand the difference betweem hating Muslims and disliking Islam. Muslims are born into an ideology which they cannot leave (since it's punishable by death.) Women born into that ideology suffer daily (since they are offically owned by their husbands) And I agree that the vast majority of Muslims would not want to harm anyone. However, the ideology they've been born into unequivocally preaches stuff which by modern standards is just evil. Muslims aren't evil, but parts of Islamic doctrine most certainly is.
Terrorists claim they're committing their atrocities in the name of Islam. They even cite specific verses. The USA's insane foreign policy (eg Iraq) gives them an reason to fight. The Koran actually gives them divine sanction to fight. America stumbled blindly into a war with a Muslim country. It attacked Muslim lands. According to Islamic teaching, the whole of Islam is now at war with America and its allies. It's as the jihadists say, a 'holy war'. The Koran mandates this. Mohammed himslef personally beheaded around 600 prisoners of war. That's why jihadists strive to emulate him when executing hostages. That is the nature of Islam.
To cure a problem, it must first be diagnosed, not obfuscated.
Posted in: Clinton, in Indonesia, seeks to improve U.S. image with Muslims
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Muchakucha
I've seen no posters here who state they loathe Muslims. However, there are several who dislike intensely the openly misogynistic and aggressive teachings of Islam. Moreover, I notice that Islam is doing nothing at all to improve its image with the non-Islamic world.
One of the aggressive teachings to which I referred is the Islamic teaching that the world can't truly be at peace until Islam is in control, ie everyone is under the rule of Sharia. That's not so say all Muslims agree with this; it is however part of Islamic teaching, and therefore cannot be challenged, even by Muslims. You have strong opinions about Islam, smith, yet you don't appear to have read the Koran.
Posted in: Clinton, in Indonesia, seeks to improve U.S. image with Muslims
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Muchakucha
cleo: I'm glad you posted that link. I encourage everyone to read the Koran. The issue of Islamic terrorism and jihad would then be understood by all.
Posted in: Doctor convicted in failed London, Glasgow attacks
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Muchakucha
Islamic terrorists routinely justify their actions by reference to Koranic verses. Why is this so difficult for you to see?
I agree that the USA and UK's astoundingly stupid foreign policy has given terrorists a motive, but it's the Koran which actually justifies their terrorism in their eyes, and in the eyes of Islamic clerics.
Posted in: Doctor convicted in failed London, Glasgow attacks