Thursday February 16, 2012

SezWho2's past comments

  • 0

    SezWho2

    So the world can read them. Now remember, their is more to the world than the US.

    I've already said so that America and the Western countries could read them. If you want to throw in China, India and Pakistan, I have no problem with that.

    My point was that the signs were not to the Iranian leadership or to the populace as a whole.

    Posted in: Republicans call Obama timid on Iran

  • 0

    SezWho2

    Why are the protest signs in English?

    There's that question again. Do tell.

    If the protest signs are in English, the protesters are obviously not appealing to the Iranian leadership or the Iranian populace. At least when the Bush protesters were escorted to the back of the bus, they were not holding up signs in French.

    If you have an answer to your question, now would be a good time to explore it.

    Posted in: Republicans call Obama timid on Iran

  • 0

    SezWho2

    Why are the protest signs in English?

    To answer in kind, that's a rhetorical question is it not?

    Yes, why indeed are the signs in English? To elicit American/Western support and put added pressure on the Iranian government? Why do you think?

    Posted in: Republicans call Obama timid on Iran

  • 0

    SezWho2

    JoeBigs,

    You stole my thunder. Good on ya'. Far from being charged with leading the free world, I think the President is charged by the Constitution to preserve, protect and defend the very same document. And he is actually given very limited powers with which to do that--although you wouldn't know that from the actual exercise of the office..

    There is a time for leadership. And there is a time for figuring out where we ought to be going. In the latter case, I think the trick is to maintain momentum while standing still. Obama's remarks have been measured and if Merkel and Sarkozy want to lead, let them.

    Obama's job is to do what is best for the US.

    Posted in: Republicans call Obama timid on Iran

  • 0

    SezWho2

    kinniku,

    So, one can then understand Iranians making due with whatever they found on the Internet that they could make use of.

    Absolutely. However, can't one also understand why the US government would have an interest in making sure Iranian citizens continued to have access to it?

    It is also the perfect way to tell people what is on your mind at any given moment.

    Absolutely, if you can tell people what's on your mind in 140 characters. That is a forum for passion, not reason. 140 characters is the language of a lynch mob.

    I am not so sure if the US gains much of anything if the Supreme Leader and the Council of Experts had approved of all the the candidates anyway.

    Any embarrassment to the government is a gain for the US. From little fissures, big rifts grow.

    Posted in: Iran accuses U.S. of meddling after disputed vote

  • 0

    SezWho2

    SuperLib,

    Again with the personal accusations. You ask questions, mock the answers and refuse to answer questions put to you.

    I happen to think that the US government is one of the best on the planet. I do not think it is the best and I do not think it is as good as it can be. Our nation's history is written in war and foreign interference and I think that we are heading for disaster unless we wean ourselves of that habit.

    What keeps that habit in place is the type of fear that Bush played so well upon. He didn't create it, only exploited what was already there. And what also keeps it in place is our reverence for war. We probably spend about as much for war (defense!) as all other nations put together. Our defense industries and arms industries are among our few viable exports.

    We congratulate ourselves for having spent the Soviet Union into oblivion and fail to notice how much our own debt increased as we did so--or who we are in debt to. We are strong. But I question the wisdom of a policy that seeks to be permanently the strongest. I think that is the wrong tack for the US and the wrong tack for human beings. No country has been strongest forever and I think it is a very bad bet that the US can be strongest long enough to lead the world into halcyon democracy.

    So, as in the discussion with Iran, I do not think we should be looking for enemies, I do not think we should be pretending that we have a clearly better system and I do not think we should be looking for evil. When you look for evil (or a witch) you find it. So, where is the evil if it can always be found?

    Long before Hobbes Thucydides opined that the strong take what they can and the weak suffer as they must. This is true in democracies, in totalitarian regimes, within tribes, within countries and on the planet. And, once again, no one has yet been strongest forever. Where are the Mongols--or for that matter, the Persians?

    Posted in: Iran accuses U.S. of meddling after disputed vote

  • 0

    SezWho2

    kinniku,

    Twitter is a very awkward medium for having anything resembling intelligent discussion. It is an ideal medium for arranging times and meeting places.

    The US gains if the weight and momentum of the demonstrations sways people to believe that the vote was rigged, whether it was rigged or not.

    Posted in: Iran accuses U.S. of meddling after disputed vote

  • 0

    SezWho2

    SuperLib,

    From my perspective it looks like you used it as an opportunity to bring up your usual knee-jerk carping about the evil of the US government.

    Once again you lead with a comment that is your personal take on me rather than what I have said about the issue or about the comments of others on the issue. I'm flattered that you let me rub your fur the wrong way, but your little love bites do leave tooth marks on my hands. I hope they won't become infected.

    You say that you don't know what the US line on Iran is and that all you have heard is our administration say "we're concerned", etc. You say that all I have uttered are "back-door" (note the pejorative) suggestions that we have meddled in the past and that no one else claims that we have meddled. Give me a break.

    You would have us believe, once Obama gained the White House, that 60 years of meddling in the affairs of Iran, overthrowing its governments, propping up leaders, proxy war and subversion, hostility and sanctions--that all this suddenly stopped on a dime and became a mere expression of concern. You can believe that if you want. Not me.

    And I haven't accused the US of meddling only in the past. It's actions with Twitter, while on a small scale, are direct evidence that our government will coopt private business to effect its own political ends. No matter how Secretary Clinton formulates it, this was not a compassionate act to bring communication to Iranians. It was a deliberate attempt to ennable the protesters. And I'm certainly not the only person who says that the US meddles.

    Your understanding of my comments is that it is OK for Iran "to ban foriegn media, shut down websites, and kill protesters because that's what a hardline theocracy is supposed to do." Really? Is that your understanding or is that your intentional misunderstanding? If it's your understanding, then you have misunderstood.

    It's not that the Iranian government is supposed to do this, it's that it can do these things more easily than a government that is more directly accountable to its people. There is not one single government on earth (OK, I can't prove that but can you give a counter-example) that does not seek these powers. That's the nature of governments. So, yes, I think I understand.

    In my opinion, you are not arguing freedom. You are haggling over degrees of freedom. You seem to get your back up when challenged and you seem to want to make it personal rather than discussing the issues themselves.

    You ask me what kind of "balance" I'm looking for. I'm looking to balance the blatant anti-Iranian (government) prejudice that we see here. Perhaps now you can tell me what kind of "balance" is permissible.

    Posted in: Iran accuses U.S. of meddling after disputed vote

  • 0

    SezWho2

    SuperLib,

    "That's pretty rich coming from someone who ... insert irrelevant topic ..."

    You are characterize my post instead of addressing it and you are reaching back instead of going forward.

    Yes, I brought up Kent State in the matter of the Iranian protests. Perhaps you could explain why you don't think that's relevant. However, I did not bring it up to defend the crackdown. I brought it up to dismiss the knee-jerk carping about the evil of the Iranian regime. If you had truly been paying attention to my posts instead of understanding only what you wanted to understand, you would have recognized that my fundamental complaint here is with people who are completely invested in the US line on Iran.

    As far as your still not understanding what I think about the Iranian protests and the government's actions against the protestors, ask me a question and I'll try to clear up any confusion you may have. To help you formulate your question, I'll say that I really don't know what to think about the protests. But here are some of my random thoughts.

    I don't think that, given the type of government the Iranians have, it is inappropriate for them to dismiss the foreign press, to shut down web sites, to ask people not to make inflammatory statements. I don't approve of the government killing its own citizens, but I understand why it may have done so. Are you aware of any government who would not--if faced with a similar situation? I think that the protests themselves are not proof of fraud in the vote. I approve of Khamenei's decision to review the vote. I think it's possible that outside forces are encouraging the demonstrators, read into that what you will. I also think that the people who think they know, probably do not.

    Now if you still profess confusion, please do ask a proper question instead of indulging in innuendo.

    In the "that's rich" department, however, I find it strange that anyone who insists that UN resolutions regarding Israel/Palestine be "balanced", objects when someone else "balances" Iranian issues. The US has been meddling in Iranian affairs since before 1950, if not longer. Can you deny that?

    Posted in: Iran accuses U.S. of meddling after disputed vote

  • 0

    SezWho2

    kinniku,

    Actually, it seems that according to what Reuters has reported (if we can believe the reports as they are written), the U.S. Department of State has acknowledged that it asked Twitter, the social networking service, to delay scheduled upgrades so as not to disrupt the Iranian opposition’s communications.

    I entirely agree with that. Now, what do you suppose the opposition is twittering about? foreign policy? how to bolster the economy? solutions to the nuclear issue?

    Posted in: Iran accuses U.S. of meddling after disputed vote

  • 0

    SezWho2

    I expect the best for my vote and for my country. I want men and women of character leading it. When people like Ensign and Clinton damage our reputation that really hurts us as a whole.

    As I said before, that is the nub of our disagreement. Please do not wave the flag at me. I, too, expect the best for my vote and for my country.

    I want men and women of ability leading it. The added requirement that they conform to our mores adds, in my opinion, nonsense to the mix. I can't say that what Ensign did here shows a lack of character.

    As far as I know, except for the fact that Ensign's paramour was not 15, it could have been like R.P. McMurphy said:

    She was fifteen years old, going on thirty-five, Doc, and she told me she was eighteen, she was very willing, I practically had to take to sewing my pants shut. Between you and me, uh, she might have been fifteen, but when you get that little red beaver right up there in front of you, I don't think it's crazy at all and I don't think you do either. No man alive could resist that, and that's why I got into jail to begin with.

    Posted in: Senator Ensign resigns from GOP leadership after affair

  • 0

    SezWho2

    But in this case there is a difference, he was a leader.

    Yes, that is your point. I hope you understand that it is also my point. We seem to have different expectations of our leaders.

    Posted in: Senator Ensign resigns from GOP leadership after affair

  • 0

    SezWho2

    That is where many people are mistaken, like many you are judging Ensign for what he did.

    With respect, that is where you are mistaken. I'm not judging Ensign at all. I didn't judge Clinton, I didn't judge Edwards and I'm not judging Ensign. It's none of my business.

    What you say about the Ensign's affair as it impacts the Republican party is mostly true, I think. The party didn't need this. I don't think there is any question that the Republicans have, especially of late with their unholy alliance with certain Christians, positioned themselves as the party of "family values". And I don't think there is any question that Ensign's behavior is inconsistent with those values.

    But falling short of embodying those values does not invalidate them. And, touting the values while falling short of them does not necessarily make Ensign a hypocrite. Before I would judge, I would need a lot more information than will probably ever be forthcoming in this matter.

    I have been faithful to my wife throughout our marriage. However, Ensign has something that I don't have--opportunities in abundance. I don't have a lot of fillies presenting themselves to me (or maybe I'm just too busy too notice and too tired to care). Ensign probably does. Any human being can lapse--if you even consider that to be a lapse.

    Posted in: Senator Ensign resigns from GOP leadership after affair

  • 0

    SezWho2

    And it's become pretty clear that your question - how much? - actually means how much does Left resent free democracies of the world 'meddling' in the affairs of a totalitarian regime in Iran the Left needs to oppose the spread of democracy in a region which, like Africa, they want and need to remain a "victim of colonialism."

    Blah. Blah. Blah. That's clear, perhaps, to you because you continue to look at the world in terms of dichotomies--Left/Right, totalitarian regimes/free democracies, and no doubt evil/good.

    Actually, however, my question was exactly what it was and nothing else. It had nothing to do with Africa and colonialism. It had nothing to do with the left or totalitarian regimes versus democracies. It did not suggest that Iranian meddling was acceptable but US meddling was not.

    Nope. It was exactly what it was--to what extent is (was, or has been) the US meddling (and for how long). You seem to want to wave your hands and say that because we (or at least the Right, the free democracy lovers and the good) are here to bring greater good to the world, the question is irrelevant, if not subversive. I note, though, that you offer no answer.

    Posted in: Iran accuses U.S. of meddling after disputed vote

  • 0

    SezWho2

    zurcronium,

    I'm not familiar enough with Ensign to judge whether or not this is hypocrisy, so my fall-back position is that it is not. I don't remember (I suppose I could look it up but it doesn't seem worthwhile.) his comments during the Clinton affair. I don't know the extent or tenor of his remarks on family values.

    My points were basically three:

    First, a man may say one thing and do another without being a hypocrite. I apologize for drawing on American literature, but I kind of see it like this: Elmer Gantry--hypocrite; Arthur Dimmesdale--not. I think an assessment of conscience is fundamental to judgments of hypocrisy and I cannot assess Ensign's.

    Second, I think it is awfully difficult for a political party to be hypocritical. It could be comprised of hypocrites but the party itself will be hypocritical only with a failure of mass collective conscience. And as for the composition of the Republican party, I doubt that it is any more or less riddled with people who have secrets to keep than the Democratic party is.

    Finally, we in the US seem to subscribe to an evolutionary brand of capitalism in which some people are just more fit to succeed while at the same time subscribing to a kind of moral egalitarianism, a socialism of values, if you will. We've got to stop that nonsense. Successful politicians are, quite simply, different from the rest of us and we cannot judge them by the same standards.

    In fact, less judgment all around might be a very good thing.

    Posted in: Senator Ensign resigns from GOP leadership after affair

  • 0

    SezWho2

    Well, according to the International Herald Tribune, the administration asked Twitter not to perform its regularly scheduled maintenance. The administration acknowledged that it made this request so that Iranian citizens would not lose this service during the critical time in which information about demonstrations needed to be distributed. The administration also denied that this constituted interference.

    I suppose, IHT could be lying. However, if it is not, the administration (or its representative) is definitely spinning its action. It has interceded with the regular operations of a private business in order to further US aims and goals in another country. I think that, no matter how you slice it, "meddling" would be an exactly correct word.

    Posted in: Iran accuses U.S. of meddling after disputed vote

  • 0

    SezWho2

    some14some,

    Not knowing how much Iran meddled in the affairs of its neighbor during the US meddling in Iraq, I can't quite grasp how much meddling that would be.

    Posted in: Iran accuses U.S. of meddling after disputed vote

  • 0

    SezWho2

    One day the human race is going to look back on the concept of fidelity and laugh--if we survive that long.

    I don't think this makes the Republican party look hypocritical. Yes, the Republicans are supposedly the party of family values, but the Democrats don't deny "family values". They only have a more liberal interpretation of "family".

    The man fell short of his professed beliefs. That in itself doesn't make him a hypocrite. It makes him human.

    We have to stop following stallions while expecting them to act like geldings.

    Posted in: Senator Ensign resigns from GOP leadership after affair

  • 0

    SezWho2

    With the administration request to Twitter that it not perform its regularly scheduled maintenance, I don't think there is any question that the US is meddling. The question would be "how much?".

    Posted in: Iran accuses U.S. of meddling after disputed vote

  • 0

    SezWho2

    Notice there is no mention of or apology for having described Gov Palin on the same show as having a "slutty stewardess look".

    Nor to the best of my knowledge has there been any apology from Palin with regard to typifying Obama as one who pals around with terrorists, nor any apology from McCain for mocking him as a self-anointed messiah.

    We live in a country and in an age in which people demand apologies for things that never happened but gloss over the need for good behavior in public life. In my estimation--and I hereby apolgize to the ghosts of Braniff flight attendants and their sisters--Letterman nailed it (can I say that in this context?) when he suggested Palin had a slutty stewardess look.

    Comedians offend. If they don't they're Bob Hope.

    Posted in: Letterman apologizes again for 'bad' Palin joke

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