Wednesday February 15, 2012

davidattokyo's past comments

  • 0

    davidattokyo

    Spidapig24,

    Let me just say this then "The Commission is unable to to provide reliable estimates at the present time. A major review is underway by the Scientific Committee." And that statement is from the IWC.

    This is true, but you should read the most recent report from IWC 63's Scientific Committee. It's on the IWC homepage. Check the section about minke whale abundance, it provides more up to date information about the status of the "reliable estimates" which are due to be agreed next year.

    But wait doesnt the ICR provide the IWC with a wealth of scientific research? Surely accurate numbers of whales would be a good place to start. After all what exactly are they researching?

    Besides numbers they are collecting biological data that can be used to determined trends in abundance. An abundance estimate only tells you a range within which true abundance is likely to fall with a certain degree of confidence (like a public opinion survey). The catch-at-age analysis which is mentioned in the IWC 63 report uses Japanese data to analyse actually trends in abundance over time. This information together with abundance estimates allows for better sustainable catch limits to be set than would otherwise be the case.

    Oh so you admit that the Japanese need to be regulated unlike now?

    I raise the point because you argue that - yet the reality is that they are unregulated as of now. If you think they can't be trusted then you should (like me) be arguing in favour of IWC regulated hunting. This would address your issue with your belief than Japanese people can't be trusted. I argue for regulated hunting from a risk management perspective. (Maybe you are not familiar with risk management, I suggest you don't just try to guess what it is...)

    Funny on that sounds so much like a quote from the JWA website.

    Gee, what a coincidence. Maybe you are biased then if multiple people are saying that of you?

    I am opposed to the Japanese whaling in my home countries region and ignoring my countries requests for them to stop. Pure and simple

    A little too simple, obviously.

    Posted in: Japan walkout throws whaling talks into disarray

  • 0

    davidattokyo

    Spidapig24,

    What does your answer have anything to do with my statement David, nothing whatsoever.

    You are saying the "Japanese side", yet only 4 nations in the entire world agree with Australia's claim.

    How can you characterise the rest of the world less 4 nations as a Japanese side view?

    But seriously when the Japanese rig voting by paying bribes,

    There is no voting at the IWC in recent years, so talking about bribes for votes is crazy. Only people who believe everything they read in News Corp publications would believe that.

    and your good mate Glen organises flights out of Australia to spy on SS

    The IWC unanimously calls on nations to take measures to ensure human safety at sea and monitoring the movements of the eco-terrorist organization is fully compliant with that. Australia agreed with these IWC resolutions, so who is complaining, unless they are complaining to suck up to gullible Aussie voters?

    Nice play on words their.

    Their what?

    Maybe l should have simplified it for you. When Japan conducts its whaling in Australia's region rather than Japans region. Is that better?

    International waters are not "Australia's region". They are called "international waters" for a reason.

    Rubbish, you say the IWC came into existance to primarily regulate whaling in Antarctica.

    Sure it did. Read a history book.

    "The main duty of the IWC is to keep under review and revise as necessary the measures laid down in the Schedule to the Convention which govern the conduct of whaling throughout the world". Notice that the word WORLD is used not Antarctica as you erroneously claim.

    Yeah but the main whaling grounds at that point were the Antarctic grounds.

    You just dont get it do you David, the world doesnt belong to Japan

    I know that - it's not me calling International waters Australian waters (or Japanese waters)

    How would Japan feel if Australia came and fished in waters in its region against its wishes.

    Everyone including landlocked nations have the right to fish in international waters.

    While the Japanese may not hunt in the mentioned countries EEZ's they still hunt against these countries wishes in their region and thats the point.

    Those countries should not presume that international waters belong to them.

    Actually you are wrong again, Australia is primarily concerned about Japanese whaling in the Southern ocean and thats the main point of its arguement and its court case.

    It is who who are wrong. If you bother to read the Australian case document (as I have done) they indeed state that they are opposed to whaling besides the Southern Ocean but they are limiting their case itself to Southern ocean whaling only.

    Australia's case is certain to fail, by the way. It's the worst legal case I have ever seen.

    Posted in: Japan walkout throws whaling talks into disarray

  • -1

    davidattokyo

    DJbooth,

    good to hear you would prefer these nations starve & suffer for Tokyo's choices. & before you go off on a rant lets remember these Minke whales you talk of in Antarctica migrate along the same routes as the Humpbacks,

    Can you provide evidence that the migration routes of minke whales are as you state?

    It's sure the first time I've heard the claim that nations are starving because Japan catches a tiny fraction of the Antarctic minke whale population each year...

    The rest of what you wrote is a laugh, thanks

    Posted in: Japan walkout throws whaling talks into disarray

  • -1

    davidattokyo

    Spidapig24,

    The point l was trying to make was that the Japanese cannot be allowed to resume commercial whaling and set their own quotas and

    If commercial whaling is allowed to resume, the Japanese WILL NOT BE ALLOWED to set their own quotas.

    The IWC would set the quotas in accordance with scientific advice from it's scientific committee.

    Right now the Japanese DO set their own quotas - they issue special permits to catch as many whales as they think necessary for research purposes. Anti-whalers including the Aussie govt claim this "commercial whaling in disguise".

    So you are saying you are afraid of what is already reality, when we already have that reality and what Japan would like is for the IWC to set quotas for commercial whaling. Furthermore - note that if the IWC set quotas for commercial whaling, these quotas would be reduced where any scientific whaling were taking place.

    You should be HAPPY about this, until you are not being honest about your beliefs surrounding this issue.

    why is it that they went to Antarctica in the first place to hunt whales? Because they had driven stocks in the Northern hemisphere to the brink of extinction.

    Matey, lots of nations went to the Antarctic to harvest whales, and the Japanese would probably still be hunting whales locally if the Americans hadn't plundered the Japanese whaling grounds during the 1800's (which is related to the reason why Perry wanted Japan to open its doors to the world in the first place).

    Posted in: Japan walkout throws whaling talks into disarray

  • -1

    davidattokyo

    Spidapig24,

    Nobody agrees with the inflated numbers that the Japanese have put forward, the numbers are estimated to be well below the Japanese figures according to estimates from the IWC.

    You are just pulling this stuff...

    The IWC's latest report explicitly says when new estimates for minke whales are (finally) agreed next year, they are likely to be close to the estimates produced using an abundance estimation method that has been produced by Japanese researchers. There is an Australian method as well, but the report says the estimate will likely be closer to the "Japanese" method's number. E.g. one can presume it is believed the Japanese method to be more accurate than an alternative Australian method.

    And while we are at it, since when can Japan be trusted to hunt anything in moderation

    That's why it should be regulated, not unregulated as research whaling is now.

    If given open slather Japan WILL hunt the whales to extinction just like

    Japan has open slather - they can hunt as many whales as they like for research purposes.

    So when pray tell are the whales going extinct?

    Your statements are full of bias against "Japanese".

    Posted in: Japan walkout throws whaling talks into disarray

  • 0

    davidattokyo

    Spidapig24,

    But in all seriousness David we will never agree on this. You are a pro whaler with you buddies like Glen Inwood and so forth. You will only ever see the Japanese side.

    Only 4 countries recognise Australia's claim.

    When Japan travels to the other end of the earth in my countries back yard to whale thats where l have an issue.

    Sure if they were doing it in your backyard, but they aren't doing it in anyone's backyard they are doing it in international waters.

    The IWC came into existence primarily to regulate whaling in the Antarctic - to now suggest that this is Australia's backyard is to deny the IWC's primary reason for existence. If you wanna do that stop blaming Japan alone. Lots of nations have agreed to the whaling convention.

    Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Chile, etc, they all want no whaling in their region pure and simple.

    There is no whaling in their recognised EEZ's.

    No one is saying to the Japanese dont whale. They are saying dont whale in our region.

    Actually no, Australia is telling the Japanese not to whale any where. You can read this in Australian policy documents.

    Posted in: Japan walkout throws whaling talks into disarray

  • -1

    davidattokyo

    Spidapig24,

    Just out of curiosity how many people are dying of starvation in the world while Japan sits on this stockpile?

    Are you blaming starvation in Africa (for example) for Japan stockpiling food? If not, I don't understand your point.

    The Japanese in their eternal victim mentality will no doubt use the earthquake stockpiling as an excuse to continue their research whaling sidestep around the ban on commercial whaling much like you are.

    Research whaling and the idea of maintaining stockpiles of food have nothing to do with each other. And recall it was an anti-whaler who raised the stockpile issue, not me in defence of research whaling. I've never heard the Japanese make the argument you suggest they would.

    Who really cares what whale meat production peaked at in the 60's.

    Well, anyone who wants to keep a tiny stockpile of whale meat in perspective does.

    maybe that peak is the reason why whales almost became extinct have you actually thought of that.

    This is a fair point. But still, the stockpile is obviously not massive now as claimed.

    But hey lets reintroduce commercial whaling and let the Japanese at it again is that what you want David?

    No I want the IWC to set sustainable catch limits in accordance with the scientific advice of it's own scientific committee and for whaling operations to be monitored for compliance in accordance with international rules, and for compliance to be monitored internationally. I don't think anyone wants to go back to unregulated whaling but realistically we are closer to that now with the status quo than we would be if the IWC would do it's job and set sustainable quotas in accordance with scientific advice.

    Would you trust the Japanese to resume commercial whaling responsibly?

    That sort of fear is why we should have international regulations, rather than leave regulations over to individual nations - as is now the case as Japan effectively catches as many whales as it wants for research purposes (which anti-whalers claim is actually commercial whaling). Funnily enough the whales aren't doing so badly inspite of this, but hey dream a nightmare if it pleases you.

    Posted in: Japan walkout throws whaling talks into disarray

  • -1

    davidattokyo

    the Australian claim stands

    Doesn't mean the claim is recognised...

    Posted in: Japan walkout throws whaling talks into disarray

  • -1

    davidattokyo

    Spidapig24,

    Dont worry this just seems to be the excuse for the continued whale just in case of an earthquake. Its a crock, if it wasnt earthquakes it would be meteors, or some other rubbish excuse.

    So go tell that to all those cold storage facilities around Japan that are loaded with food, that they are all entirely nuts, if you think it's such a big problem. Your expert advice on how to manage inventory would surely be paid much heed.

    The facts are Japan is sitting on a massive stockpile of whale meat that is slowly diminishing.

    A few thousand tonnes of whale meat versus millions of tonnes of frozen seafood, and you call it "massive"? Whale meat production peaked at 226,000 tonnes back in the 1960s. And you are getting all excited about a few lousy thousand tonnes?

    Posted in: Japan walkout throws whaling talks into disarray

  • -1

    davidattokyo

    Ayler,

    No I got my ideas from the things you typed.

    In that case, you need to learn to read :)

    certainly no rational intelligent person would come up with such nonsense.

    The stuff you made up as a strawman?

    I found nothing on distributing whale meat to earthquake victims, as you well know since it only happened in your imagination.

    So if the news that I say exists is actually in my imagination and you found nothing about it, what would you say if I can show you an article that shows the JWA did indeed send whale meat from Kushiro to Ishinomaki residents, after a survey of evacuated residents found that "almost all respondents said they quote, want to eat whale meat, unquote"?

    Would you be able to admit that you are wr..., wro..., wrong?

    Don't tell me your Google ability is as poor as your reading comprehension.

    There is little sense in debating with you however, we'll simply never agree.

    That much is indeed obvious.

    I'll just have to get some what satisfaction I can from knowing I'm right :)

    LOL

    Posted in: Japan walkout throws whaling talks into disarray

  • -3

    davidattokyo

    Ayler

    No I didn't. Your point was that whale meat stockpiles were important should another major earthquake happen.

    Whee, now you're telling me what my point was. As I said first up, "there is certainly more need for food stockpiles". Food stockpiles includes whale stockpiles, but is certainly not limited to whale stockpiles as you seemed to think at first.

    if you really think there is any relation between whaling and the reconstruction of Japan/feeding the hungry masses you

    You would only get that idea if you were interpreting my comments in the context of your own preconceptions and biases, rather than objectively.

    You'll back it up with some hard stats then. Good job I raised it eh? Get googling!

    You can check it yourself via Google. I could waste time Googling and post the links to show you the news articles and you'd just turn around and go off on your next tangent. Check about the research whaling meat from Kushiro, Hokkaido this year.

    having a bit of trouble with the old keyboard Davey?

    Actually, I had turned off my computer for the day...

    Jarvis,

    they are not other animals, they are highly intelligent creatures and

    They are not so intelligent that they aren't good for eating.

    I have no desire to eat members of my own species, and don't know anyone who does, so I don't know why you would raise that point. Whales are not humans like us. Whales are animals more like those intelligent pigs we eat.

    Nessie,

    Isn't it the case that Australia is claiming a patch of open ocean that is well outside its EEZ, i.e., waters they are not Australian waters? This would make it an unprecedented ocean-grab.

    Australia is claiming the patch of open ocean based on some claim they think they have over part of the Antarctic continent. They think they can claim an EEZ around the Antarctic continent as a result. With less than a handful of nations recognising that land claim (and only those nations with other equally dubious claims) they shouldn't be surprised that the rest of the world thinks those waters are high seas under international law.

    I like Aussies generally but they are crazy about these particular issues.

    Posted in: Japan walkout throws whaling talks into disarray

  • -1

    davidattokyo

    Ayler,

    You missed the point. The point is, is that without stockpiling food (be it whale or whatever - there is millions of food stockpiled in Japan right now) then you don't have anything to eat when your supply suddenly gets disrupted.

    Why people would imagine whale food be treated so differently to every other type of food is also - you guessed it - beyond me. There is a stockpile of whale meat - so what - there is a stockpile of lots of stuff, and the whale meat one is relateively tiny.

    You really think that if another massive earthquake hit they would start giving away free whale meat? really? didnt hear anything about that last time.

    Actually there was some whale meat distributed to people in affected communities - but that wasn't my point. Glad you decided to raise it though.

    Raymasaki,

    a walk out was a Bad move,

    The bad move was to put to vote a proposal that was obviously never going to pass, and also be entirely ineffectual. See this BBC piece for an explanation: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14163984

    Posted in: Japan walkout throws whaling talks into disarray

  • -1

    davidattokyo

    Spidapid24,

    given that Japan is still sitting on a massive stockpile of whale meat why do they need to keep increasing that stockpile.

    It's a tiny stockpile of whale meat, only a few thousand tonnes doesn't provide food for many meals in Japan. And there is certainly more need for food stockpiles than there is useless digital photographs that people hardly ever look at again once they are taken.

    Afterall like all food it will not keep forever

    If it's frozen like whale meat is then it lasts for a good number of years (10 or so).

    why not suspend whaling for a while until the stockpile is reduced.

    The stockpile is already reduced compared with what it was before the moratorium. And there is no good reason why this should be the case considering there are plenty of whales out there that could be caught sustainably.

    You know why as well as l do, because the Japanese are being bloody minded and

    You ought to stop speaking for anyone other than yourself if you are going to say wrong things.

    They dont need the meat for food now do they?

    If there was no stockpile of food in Japan and a massive earthquake strikes tomorrow, then what do you think people are going to eat in the days that follow??

    Gee this scenario doesn't sound so unfamiliar to me actually...

    Posted in: Japan walkout throws whaling talks into disarray

  • -1

    davidattokyo

    @nigelboyJul. 16, 2011 - 01:47AM JST

    As for the latter part, you need to show me proof that Japan is fudging population figures.

    Absolutely - the IWC Scientific Committee is working on the population figures as a group. When the estimate is announced next year it will be from the IWC SC as a whole - not just Japan as the anti-whaling propaganda will have it.

    As davidattokyo alluded to, by placing a commercial moratorium, there is a de facto sanctuary in place so there is no need to "ban" scientifiic research in open seas

    To be precise, the commercial moratorium precludes commercial whaling, but like the moratorium, whaling convention sanctuaries don't apply to special permit research catches either. The Southern Atlantic Sanctuary is therefore entirely pointless from a view to the number of whales that are being caught there. And Japanese research doesn't cover Atlantic waters anyways..

    Posted in: Japan walkout throws whaling talks into disarray

  • -1

    davidattokyo

    @DJboothJul. 16, 2011 - 01:29AM JST

    Some nations make billions of $ from eco-tourism/whale watching, & those same whales Japan kills in the Antarctic

    It's all about money for you, isn't it.

    Japan kills mainly minke whales in the Antarctic, and there are hardly any eco-tourism ventures that target these same whales. The fact that Japan has been catching whales in the Antarctic for more than 50 years is evidence enough that doing so has no negative impact on the potential for whale watching.

    Besides, priority wise food for people comes before photo targets for rich tourists.

    Posted in: Japan walkout throws whaling talks into disarray

  • -1

    davidattokyo

    @smithinjapan Jul. 16, 2011 - 12:52AM JST

    We're all well aware that, sadly, Japan is far from logical on issues like whaling and

    M'kay... nice argument there. Well done.

    watch Japan freak out about the idea of making payment methods to the IWC more transparent! I'm curious what you have to say on that issue. :)

    Were you watching Japan "freak out"? How? Were you there?

    As for this sideshow about payment methods, what's the point - the IWC hasn't been conducting any votes for a couple of years anyway, so why anyone still believes that Japan is buying votes is beyond me. Especially since the allegations last year came from News Corp.

    Posted in: Japan walkout throws whaling talks into disarray

  • -1

    davidattokyo

    The whaling issue is just the most high profile one but the philosophy of sustainable use of natural wild resources is the same across the board.

    Antis think certain animals are too good for eating, Non-antis think Antis are a bunch of really nasty arrogant people who should mind their own business.

    Posted in: Japan walkout throws whaling talks into disarray

  • 0

    davidattokyo

    DJbooth,

    On one hand you say scientific whaling is a cover for commercial whaling and it catches how many whales it likes, yet on the other hand you suggest that Japan can't be trusted to abide by international quotas.

    Logically if that were the case Japan would already be catching as many whales as it likes for commercial purposes.

    Yet in reality, Japan reduced catches significantly in the wake of the moratorium when it brought in scientific whaling.

    Obviously therefore your beliefs are completely wrong for some reason.

    You continually argue Japans whaling is sustainable, yet agree Minke numbers are 200-300 thousand,

    Latest information from the IWC Scientific Committee suggests the new estimate next year will be between 400,000 to 600,000 and probably leaning more towards 600,000.

    if just 50 nations from the IWC killed 1,000 Minkes per year,

    If nations want to share the quota then the quota should be divided up between them so that in sum the quota is sustainable. This incidentally is why there is an IWC in the first place - to prevent the sort of hypothetical crisis situation you raise.

    Therefore the conclusion is that the IWC ought to be setting such sustainable quotas right now - if we really care about preventing nasty crises. I do. (You don't seem to as you disagree with me.)

    It's not Japan's fault that no one else is particularly interested in an Antarctic minke whale quota at the moment, and certainly no reason that Japan should be denied a quota.

    Posted in: Japan walkout throws whaling talks into disarray

  • -1

    davidattokyo

    "Japan issues special permits allowing hunts for scientific research" would also be a statement of fact, without the implied suspicion in the "claim" statement.

    Posted in: Japan walkout throws whaling talks into disarray

  • -1

    davidattokyo

    more amusing is that Japan and others are trying to block the sanctuary from being officially recognized because they claim it "lacks scientific evidence"!

    There is no scientific basis for the Southern Atlantic Sanctuary that has been proposed, as required under the whaling convention (Article V).

    Common sense - given that there is already a moratorium on commercial whaling, there is already a de facto "sanctuary" throughout the entire world by a different name.

    Posted in: Japan walkout throws whaling talks into disarray

Follow us

Facebook
Twitter

View all