Thursday February 16, 2012

davidattokyo's past comments

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    davidattokyo

    Shrkb8, to elaborate on the first fact, Australia and other nations have all agreed to the ICRW text, which permits special permit research such as that conducted by the Japanese.

    Posted in: Japanese whalers, activists clash off Antarctica

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    davidattokyo

    SS supporters should take note that they support a group deemed by the US government to be taking "aggressive and harmful actions".

    At least the Japanese and Americans can agree on this much.

    Now if only the rogue Australians and Dutch could be made to fulfill their own obligations as proper law abiding states.

    Posted in: U.S., Japan discussed action against anti-whalers: WikiLeaks

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    davidattokyo

    Happy New Year all.

    Shrkb8, as a neutral observer to this discussion I have to let you know that you lost the argument.

    Simple facts: 1) ICRW allows for research catches, as the contracting government authorizing those catches sees fit. Japan is doing this. 2) Japan submits biological data from these catches to the IWC's scientific committee, and indeed the scientific committee itself USES the data. See the catch-at-age work on minke whale samples for example. It is not possible for Australia or anyone, yourself included, to prove that data that evidently does exist does not exist. 3) Australia's case at the ICJ thus stands no chance, and I continue to believe that Australia will drop the case before they suffer the larger embarrassment of losing it.

    Posted in: Japanese whalers, activists clash off Antarctica

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    davidattokyo

    Will make a point of staying at Lake Kawagachi sometime...

    Posted in: Blue Fuji

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    davidattokyo

    "... this issue drives Westerners nuts. So there needs to be a smarter approach to this"

    Western anti-whalers are only so smart though... tough situation huh.

    Posted in: Taiji mayor defends dolphin hunts

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    davidattokyo

    Good job Ghana!!! The "I LOVE GHANA" flag on my wall ain't there for nothing.

    Posted in: Ghana, Uruguay reach quarterfinals

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    davidattokyo

    Japan claims the right to hunt under the commission’s exemption for scientific research, but nearly all the meat ends up in restaurants.

    Whale meat is supposed to end up in restaurants (read the ICRW, it's a whaling convention for the benefit of the whaling industry and consumers of whale products), so the "but" here is strange choice of words.

    There is a lot of meat on a whale - the parts that don't end up in restaurants are limited to the interesting biological parts that help our understanding of the population dynamics of these populations.

    Posted in: IWC OKs new quota of indigenous whale hunting for Greenland

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    davidattokyo

    KeikoTokyo,

    Actually it is a democratic organisation, & listens to the arguments of both sides. & in doing so properly manages whaling

    Given that only 20% of whales taken are caught with explicit IWC approval (as opposed to implicit approval in the convention) any who thinks that the IWC is an appropriate or effective organization to properly manage whaling is clearly bonkers.

    Posted in: IWC OKs new quota of indigenous whale hunting for Greenland

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    davidattokyo

    KeikoTokyo,

    Yes the moratorium has been the most successful conservation bill ever put through.

    1) It was not a conservation success, it was a disaster. Conservation victories had already been won before the moratorium was illegally imposed 2) It wasn't a "bill". It's an IWC Schedule amendment, please (for once) actually read the convention and the Schedule to understand the legal context.

    As I am sure you are aware despite the previous bans you speak of countries continued to ignore them, & continued to hunt these banned whales

    Proof that "countries" were hunting Blue whales, Fin whales, Humpback whales and Sei whales in 1980, prior to the moratorium? Where is it? Besides in your imagination.

    as we all know indigenous hunting is not carried out in Antarctic waters

    Who cares? There are hundreds of thousands of minke whales in the Antarctic waters, even the US commissioner to the IWC has admitted that thousands of them could be taken on a sustainable basis each year, and the reason the IWC was established in the first place was to manage sustainable harvests of whales in Antarctic waters. Read the convention. If I'm not mistaken you'll struggle to find mention of the word "indigenous" a single time.

    what was 'illegal' about the moratorium formed

    It violates Article V of the ICRW, and it was also imposed through the corrupt immoral practice of instating anti-whaling activists as "representatives" of countries to which those activists had no connection at all. I have already shown you the information about this - names of anti-whaling activists are on the record as representing certain nations at the IWC in the early 1980's when it's clear that they had no business in doing so. The anti-whaling camp has also admitted it, so you can hardly deny it.

    Posted in: IWC OKs new quota of indigenous whale hunting for Greenland

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    davidattokyo

    Typically daft media coverage:

    Others said lifting the ban—one of the most effective conservation measures in history—

    Huh? The "ban" achieved nothing in terms of conservation. The "ban" was adopted (illegally) in 1982. Yet, the Blue whale was protected in the 1960s. The Humpback whale was protected in the 1960s. The fin whale and sei whales were protected in the 1970's.

    The whaling that the "ban" stopped was essentially sustainable harvests of minke whales in the the Antarctic. And yet the media continue to spout crap like "this was a very effective conservation measure".

    Of course the Greenlanders shouldn't have had to beg to get their humpback quotas, but that's just another sign of how screwed the IWC is.

    Posted in: IWC OKs new quota of indigenous whale hunting for Greenland

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    davidattokyo

    cleo,

    What I'm asking is, if they'd be able to provide up to date data on the health and numbers of whales from a catch of 200 whales, why for the past few years have they been trying to kill close on a thousand every year?

    If you are familiar with opinion polls you'll know about statistical precision etc based on sample size. It's the same concept.

    I could have sworn that I've explained it to you before. Did you forget?

    Posted in: Proposal to resume commercial whaling hits snag at IWC meeting

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    davidattokyo

    arrestpaul,

    Yes, it's nice to see KeikoTokyo agree that Japan's whaling is not "commercial whaling".

    cleo,

    Isn't KeikoTokyo simply saying a return to pre-moratorium status isn't in the cards?

    No, KeikoTokyo clearly said that Keiko is happy there will be "no return to commercial whaling", e.g. that currently there is no commercial whaling now by Japan.

    KeikoTokyo,

    davidattokyo;"Uuuh, what is Iceland doing? What is Norway doing? And what it is that you think Japan is doing?

    ... "commercial whaling"? No?"

    Thank you for confirming Japan is actually hunting commercially.

    Japan isn't hunting commercially, but from your previous comments it was clear that you thought Japan was conducting commercial whaling. But now that you say there is "no return to commercial whaling", it is clear that you understand that Japan is not commercially whaling now.

    Although you should be aware that Iceland and Norway (and even Japan's catches of Baird's beaked whales) are catching them on a commercial basis. So you are right that Japan's whaling ops are not commercial, but you are wrong that Iceland and Norway are not conducting commercial whaling.

    Glad you have learnt something these last few days!

    Posted in: Proposal to resume commercial whaling hits snag at IWC meeting

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    davidattokyo

    cleo,

    So if they're going to be catching for the table instead of for 'research' and no research will be being done

    No one ever said that research wouldn't be done on the catch.

    Research is always done, for both "commercial" whaling as well as research whaling, and I believe even aboriginal subsistence whaling probably has elements of biological data collection, although for financial reasons probably not as good or comprehensive as what Japan does.

    how will they be able to ascertain population levels, age structure, etc.,

    They will stil be able to get information, although the precision would be lower and thus it would take more time to get results than otherwise.

    But as you should know, "compromising" doesn't always mean you get what you want.

    Aren't they basically saying if they're allowed to catch openly for the table, they won't bother anymore about whether the catch is sustainable?

    No, they aren't saying that. How you jumped there is beyond me.

    And if the argument is that they'd be able to monitor population levels from the quota of 200 dead whales

    Japan wasn't happy with 200 and was negotiating for higher levels. 400 was apparently barely acceptable.

    why are they trying to take roughly five times that now?

    Because they can take as many as they want under current arrangements, but for the sake of the IWC they were prepared to compromise with irrational anti-whalers.

    Personally I think it was a dumb idea and am happy the anti-whalers destroyed it so that Japan could not agree to the compromise. That would have been a big mistake.

    Posted in: Proposal to resume commercial whaling hits snag at IWC meeting

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    davidattokyo

    cleo,

    It seems that under its so-called 'scientific research', Japan is killing more whales than it says it wants to kill in a commercial whaling programme.

    Read the compromise proposal.

    It's not "commercial whaling". It's just WHALING. WHALING without any stupid dumb classification in front of it. What Japan does with the quota then would become Japan's business.

    And thus, idiots won't be able to whine and whinge about "scientific whaling is commercial whaling in disguise". Yes, I guess losing this propaganda favourite is why the anti-whaling camp is opposed to compromise.

    Why on earth would they want to do that, considering the cost of storing all the unused meat/shipping it to illegal sushi bars in the US?

    The distribution system consists of operators who store the meat after it's discharged into the market because they can make money by doing so. The shipping to the US consists of a few tens of kgs personally transported by individuals, so far as I know, which are costs borne by them for their illegal activities (under US law).

    With less whale meat in circulation, the distribution operators would be fetching even higher prices for whale meat they keep in inventory too, so your logic is backwards.

    Why 'offer' to do it? Why not just do it, if all they need/want is 200 whales?

    They want more. Do you not understand "compromise" either?

    Posted in: Proposal to resume commercial whaling hits snag at IWC meeting

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    davidattokyo

    Disillusioned,

    Japan has to accept a quota of ZERO. That is the compromise.

    So as well as intransigent, you don't appear to know what "compromise" means either.

    If Japan is not prepared to accept this compromise

    uhhh... that's not a compromise, that's a one-way demand.

    Whaling is over David and

    Ah, tell that to the dinner I had last Sunday.

    Posted in: Proposal to resume commercial whaling hits snag at IWC meeting

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    davidattokyo

    Disillusioned,

    Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

    I guess you don't know what intransigent means.

    Japan offered to more than half it's Antarctic catch quotas. What did the anti-whalers offer in return? Nothing. They demanded zero, instead of half.

    KeikoTokyo,

    So no return to commercial whaling, GREAT NEWS!!!

    An admission from you that Japan is not conducting commercial whaling. Thank you.

    pettelaar10,

    1 thing i never will understand that the people in japan finding this normal and

    Well lots of people outside Japan think it's normal too. Check the Te Ohu Kaimoana press release today for a Maori view from New Zealand, for example.

    this will not possible in the netherlands wen they slauhter wales then we will kill the goverment

    The Netherlands is a shameful nation for it's support of eco-terrorists.

    Posted in: Proposal to resume commercial whaling hits snag at IWC meeting

  • 0

    davidattokyo

    KeikoTokyo,

    Wake up and join the real world.

    GREAT NEWS for the whales, there will be no return to commercial whaling!

    Uuuh, what is Iceland doing? What is Norway doing? And what it is that you think Japan is doing?

    ... "commercial whaling"? No?

    So, what is the "great news"?

    So I guess all those bribes & prostitutes were for nothing,

    These are baseless allegations. There is no proof - just talk of a video tape, and yet the video tape is not released so that independent people can review it to verify that the allegations are true. The lack of the release of the video tape is proof that the allegations are false. Otherwise it'd be public already.

    On the other hand it's a proven fact that anti-whaling activists illegally acted as representatives of some of these small countries in the early 1980's in order for the anti-whaling movement to illegally establish the moratorium. Such as Roger Payne "representing" Antigua and Barbuda, despite being an American citizen with no relationship to A&B.

    Posted in: IWC opens meeting with focus on commercial whaling ban

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    davidattokyo

    There ARE no quotas. Yet people claim Japan will ignore them. Instead they just set their own, anyway. People are nuts if they seriously think Japan is asking for quotas to be set (instead of Japan deciding for itself) just so that they can later go and ignore the quotas.

    That doesn't make sense at all, except to fanatics.

    Posted in: IWC opens meeting with focus on commercial whaling ban

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    davidattokyo

    KeikoTokyo,

    Oh that is why both Iceland & Norway have previously left the IWC, because they were such good participants

    Both Iceland and Norway are members of the IWC. Check the membership: http://www.iwcoffice.org/commission/members.htm

    Or maybe you are talking about Japan who is now paying for the chairman of the IWC's hotel bill & expenses?

    "Japan"? What is "Japan"?

    Is that not bribing & blackmail?

    LOL! He is the chair of the IWC meeting! He has no power over the decisions the IWC makes, he simply runs the meeting, and he is only doing so because the other chap from Chile "fell ill", before the meeting.

    the EU is blackmailing a country by simply saying

    Who cares. Icelanders don't won't to join the crumbling, decrepit EU anyway. They are a bunch of debt-ridden states that Icelanders sure won't be happy to join up to, especially if they have to allow them access to Iceland's fisheries and stop whaling to boot.

    Then what are Japans hunts in Antarctica, The Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary, being called now? Commercial?

    Japan's research programme in the Antarctic is a special permit programme allowed under the terms of Article VIII of the ICRW. Iceland too recently conducted a similar special permit program, and many other nations have issued such permits in the past as well.

    These programmes are especially important today because the illegal moratorium otherwise precludes the acquisition of biological data, which is noted in the convention as being critical for sound and constructive management of whale fisheries.

    Read the convention before posting further, I would suggest. Night night!

    Posted in: IWC opens meeting with focus on commercial whaling ban

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    davidattokyo

    KeikoTokyo,

    Ohh you mean Norway, & Iceland that as you have stated ignore the ban,

    They have ICRW permitted objections to the "ban" provision in the IWC Schedule.

    Education time. ICRW Article V: "Each of such amendments [e.g. IWC Schedule amendments, which include the illegal moratorium and sanctuary amendments] shall become effective with respect to the Contracting Governments ninety days following notification of the amendment by the Commission to each of the Contracting Governments, except that (a) if any Government presents to the Commission objection to any amendment prior to the expiration of this ninety-day period"

    Posted in: IWC opens meeting with focus on commercial whaling ban

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