JAPAN NEWS AND DISCUSSION
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davidattokyo
desmosedici,
That's the problem. The ICCAT quotas need to be stuck by. That's what it comes down to.
Well the Club Med countries are catching the fish and selling it to buyers in Japan. The critical thing is that they catch the fish sustainably.
paulinusa,
No more than a destructive international trade ban would have been.
You guys have gotta be more positive! Positive thinking! Looking backwards doesn't get anyone anywhere.
Posted in: Hatoyama, fish dealers welcome tuna ban rejection
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davidattokyo
Absolutely, people shouldn't see this as "Japan winning", more like a "wake up call" for all involved.
The skepticism is healthy. It will keep the Japanese on their toes, but I still worry about the EU nations etc. Do they have the political will there to do what it takes? And the money? Dunno. Hope so, solutions need to be found for any issues they have.
Whats still disappointing to me though is that none of the high profile "environmental" groups like WWF are prepared to stand up and take a practical approach to solving these issues. They focus only on the environment by proposing blanket trade ban, and ignore the reality of the world today where people are part of the environment and need to be considered in the mix.
Posted in: Hatoyama, fish dealers welcome tuna ban rejection
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davidattokyo
Hatoyama's comments show what a moron he his...
Prices go up if tuna become more rare (or if more people are eating them). If Hatoyama wants to stop price rises then he needs to show a shred of leadership in the international community and get fish stocks stabilised for starters and eventually on the recovery path to more productive levels.
Then with more fish prices might actually be able to fall for a change.
Posted in: Hatoyama, fish dealers welcome tuna ban rejection
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davidattokyo
It is good though. I would agree that the average J-consumer doesn't think a lot about where there fish is coming from. (I also think that it's unreasonable to expect them to, every time they sit down for a meal.)
But it is good that this has been such a high profile issue, and I think the public will show understanding for any tougher measures the Japanese authorities see fit to adopt in light of it.
Posted in: Hatoyama, fish dealers welcome tuna ban rejection
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davidattokyo
Such as "There is a problem with overfishing, and ICCAT needs to enforce its catch limits more strictly"?
That's what I have been saying too, even though I don't deal in fish.
Posted in: Hatoyama, fish dealers welcome tuna ban rejection
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davidattokyo
Judyboots,
I also thought the article was totally slanted. E.g. the use of "rapacious" to describe Japanese consumers.
hokkaidoguy,
You won't find a vote break down. CITES has anonymous voting so as to ensure that politicians from vulnerable nations can vote they way they want without fear of reprisals from groups such as WWF who claim to be the only ones who know how to run the world.
Posted in: Japan happy as export ban on Atlantic bluefin tuna rejected
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davidattokyo
gogogo,
That's not a constructive approach, it's a destructive approach.
You folks need to use some imagination and think about solutions that will work in the real world where decisions have consequences not only for fish stocks but for people. If there are solutions that don't screw people over completely but do conserve the fish, then these are the solutions we should be opting for.
ezekiel25,
Indeed ICCAT hasn't worked well. So, it should be fixed, properly with constructive solutions.
Once CITES bans trade in something it is notoriously difficult to get it to un-ban it again. Just take a look at minke whales.
OK, so politicians should change the economics with their hefty influence, no?
Posted in: Japan happy as export ban on Atlantic bluefin tuna rejected
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davidattokyo
smithinjapan,
Maybe in your mind. But perhaps we should stick to reality.
Unless Japan's bribes are getting to the easily bought Australians, Chinese, etc.
Given that catches are higher than the amount of whale meat stocked in Japan (which is supposed to be "huge" according to anti-whaling campaigners), there are obviously quite a lot of tuna out there. Reduced to around 15% of pre-exploitation levels, apparently yes. Over-exploited, absolutely yes. Catch quotas should certainly be very conservative and probably cut further to ensure recovery to more productive levels, yes.
Posted in: Japan happy as export ban on Atlantic bluefin tuna rejected
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davidattokyo
Man you guys... stop thinking about who Japan will blame in 10 years time, and start thinking about a constructive approach that will ensure there are more tuna in 10 years time than there are today. Some of you people are just so so negative. Must be very gloomy where you wake up each morning.
Posted in: Japan happy as export ban on Atlantic bluefin tuna rejected
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davidattokyo
herefornow,
LOL, I like your sarcastic tone :)
Oh wait you are serious?
Tell me about this then.
http://www.oprt.or.jp/eng/e_news_100317.html
Posted in: Japan happy as export ban on Atlantic bluefin tuna rejected
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davidattokyo
LOL
Posted in: Japan happy as export ban on Atlantic bluefin tuna rejected
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davidattokyo
e: Tragedy of the commons.
We actually have RMFOs (regional fisheries management organizations) where nations talk together and are supposed to take actions together to ensure that the sum of actions by the sum of their citizens does not bring about intended consequences for the resources they are utilising.
This is a solution to the tragedy of the commons issue.
But only if the nations that are party to the RMFOs fulfil their obligations.
So why don't they? Let's have better monitoring and regulation from the nations who let their people catch these fish. By all means. Let's reduce the quotas too. By all means.
I do not understand why some people here think that the nations who aren't doing their job properly through the ICCAT RMFO would make a better job of banning the international trade of tuna?
If you don't trust them to implement monitoring and regulations of fisheries, why do you trust them to implement monitoring and regulations of a trade ban?
The source of the problem is overfishing. If we are going to be angry with these nations we should cut to the chase and get angry with them over their lax oversight of their fishing industries and their often poor decision making through ICCAT.
Increasingly abundant whales resources get so much attention, but just imagine what might be possible if the pressure were diverted towards real problem areas such as Atlantic bluefin tuna?
Posted in: Japan happy as export ban on Atlantic bluefin tuna rejected
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davidattokyo
herefornow,
This was an issue of jurisdiction for the Atlantic bluefin tuna fisheries. It's not a moral/ethical issue, it's a conservation issue.
And it would not have been "conservation" to impose a blanket international trade ban. That's just "non-use" philosophy.
In that scenario, everyone loses - both consumers, and the fishing industry and workers...
... everyone except the anti-use / non-use campaign groups such as WWF that need such issues to pull donations and support their own cushy lifestyles, tripping around the world to exotic locations for various meetings.
If only they could adjust their campaigns to be for sustainable-use based conservation, rather than irrational protectionism, they might actually be able to serve a more useful purpose in the world.
Posted in: Japan happy as export ban on Atlantic bluefin tuna rejected
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davidattokyo
jinjapan,
That sort of research, like the claim about there being no more fish left in the oceans by 2048, are based on assumptions about management actions, such as "no good management decisions to address the problem are taken".
Of course, these assumptions are stupid, because if there is a problem there is a good chance that appropriate management actions would be taken.
Then this "research" is used as propaganda by groups who have anti-trade, anti-use agendas, as opposed to conservation agendas.
The power is with the politicians and authorities. Let's hope they put conservation goals ahead of their personal self-interests of getting re-elected, etc.
Posted in: Japan happy as export ban on Atlantic bluefin tuna rejected
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davidattokyo
This article from AP is incredibly slanted, but anyway...
Exactly.
Let's not let them forget this.
Stopping this stupid kneejerk proposal from Monaco (apparently sponsored by WWF with millions of dollars) is not the true victory.
The true victory will be ICCAT functioning as an effective management body. Hopefully this CITES fiasco will be the kick in the pants that the EU nation members need, and I trust that Japan and others too will play their part.
They will need to do a good job.
Because the NGOs that make up the commercial anti-use industry will be spewing their propaganda in any case (they can not admit it when they are wrong).
Hope now that we will see lots of political focus on ICCAT, like never before.
Posted in: Japan happy as export ban on Atlantic bluefin tuna rejected
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davidattokyo
Pukey2
Hey outside Japan and Asia I think you missed a few places that didn't support the trade ban proposal. And you really think Japan "bribed" 70 of them?
Come on man, just accept the fact that US/EU opinion is not always world opinion.
What we need to hope for now is that the same EU nations that were pushing the trade ban will finally come to their senses and implement policy in accordance with their obligations under ICCAT.
That's the opposite of what those countries want to do.
Mmmmm, OK and you give a little racist blurt against Maori as well... shows who is on the right side of this argument.
sf2k,
If we are trying to impose trade bans when we should be regulating the fisheries where it all starts, then yes we would be idiots.
Again to everyone complaining - ICCAT set quotas this year in the ballpark of 13,000 tons. Japan's so-called "unwanted whale meat stockpile" is just 4,000 tons or thereabouts.
There are still quite a few tuna left :)
This is not the end of the tuna. What will be the end of the tuna is a failure of the nations involved to regulate their fishing fleets and ensure that quotas that are set are kept to. If you feel strongly about it, write to the EU member nations about it and tell them to pull their heads in.
Posted in: Japan leading charge against bluefin ban
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davidattokyo
(A 66% majority is required for adoption at CITES, they didn't even get 50%).
Posted in: Japan leading charge against bluefin ban
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davidattokyo
Here are the votes... 20 in favour (gee, that's less than the number of countries in the EU alone, so some of them must have turned), 68 opposed.
Resounding defeat for blanket international trade ban.
The EU put a new revised proposal too, which garnered 43 votes in favour and 72 against.
Now let's please not forget about ICCAT and complain about it loudly if they don't take appropriate management measures.
Posted in: Japan leading charge against bluefin ban
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davidattokyo
Fadamor,
Incorrect. CITES is a trade management organization. ICCAT is the body that sets catch quotas, and they haven't proposed a zero catch quota.
See http://www.cites.org/eng/disc/how.shtml The Monaco propsal was to list the species on Appendix I, which would mean an international trade ban (except between countries with reservations). The Australia compromise proposal was to list on Appendix II, which would allow trade but with increased controls. Not an entirely bad idea.
This is all academic now as breaking news is that the proposal was voted down. (Apparently something like 60 to 20 odd votes, I missed the exact count)
But, given that annual quotas for Atlantic bluefin tuna are much greater than the size of the much criticised "unwanted whale meat stockpile", one has to question whether the species is actually in danger of extinction, as opposed to in need of proper management to build the stock numbers back up to greater numbers.
I personally hope that ICCAT cuts quotas again, but that alone is not enough without meaningful controls in the EU nations to ensure the rules are complied with. As you say, even though there may be some poaching, so long as the impact is limited it may be something we can live with. But it seems more needs to be done by EU nations before we reach that point.
Posted in: Japan leading charge against bluefin ban
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davidattokyo
Fadamor,
OK, that's a start. So, then do you actually police it? Do you know that you have monitored all the tuna that is caught, and some hasn't been snuck past you? And how do you make sure that it doesn't get exported?
And if you can do all of that, then why not just regulate the fisheries properly via ICCAT and agree to quotas advised to you by the ICCAT scientists? That way your fishing industry can rake in foreign exchange which is good for your economy, and tuna consumers can be happy too.
But who does a ban on exports really work for? Is this really the best we can do?
Posted in: Japan leading charge against bluefin ban