JAPAN NEWS AND DISCUSSION
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davidattokyo
senseiman,
Australia raised a host of issues in it's application, good faith being one of them. You may be correct that the ICJ may not examine Australia's shortcomings in that area, but in considering Australia's allegation the ICJ panel will have to consider the purpose of the whaling convention. The real world implication of Japan winning the case is that Australia would be in the wrong, which I believe will have ramifications.
Australia is going to argue the populist "de facto commercial whaling" line, but the letter of the law (the actual IWC Schedule text, and Article VIII) makes it clear that Australia has no case. As a media sound-bite it sounds great, but legally it is baseless. The simple reality is that the whaling convention is not totally amenable to being used for anti-whaling purposes (unremarkably).
In my view the ICJ finding in favour of Japan would set an important precedent - Japan's interpretation of the meaning of the whaling convention would have been effectively affirmed, and the PR value of the victory will also give the whaling nations further justification to set up an alternative organization to replace the IWC, if it remains unable to function as intended in the case of ongoing anti-whaling intransigence with respect to quotas.
The "commercial whaling in disguise" argument is perhaps the strength of the anti-whaling movement propaganda in non-whaling nations, but it will have been discredited as a result... The USA perhaps recognises this as well, I believe, for they have described Australia's ICJ move as an "uncertain gamble on whales' lives".
Posted in: Japan using quake disaster budget for whaling aid
-11
davidattokyo
smithinjapan,
1) Whales reproduce - they are renewable resources, providing they are properly managed. 2) Wrote the late Dr John Gulland who represented the FAO at IWC meetings:
"... the best, if not the only, way to determine the sustainable yield of a whale stock is carefully monitored harvesting. Certainly our knowledge of whale stocks is far from complete, and there can be considerable argument on just how large a catch can be sustained from individual stocks. However, these doubts are no reason for not taking moderate, and carefully monitored catches from stocks which appear to be in a healthy condition."
This is precisely what Japan is doing.
globalwatcher,
I think most Americans think Watson is a douche.
Posted in: Japan whaling authorities sue Sea Shepherd in U.S.
-2
davidattokyo
Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the international law that says agreements must be honoured in "good faith". An objective reader who examines the whaling convention can understand clearly what it's purpose is, and see that Australia's stated policy of banning whaling globally runs contrary to it, as do their voting patterns at the IWC over the years.
We will be seeing Japan pursue legal remedies next year, thanks to Australia's decision to bring the matter to the ICJ. Until Australia's decision (regarded as rash by the US and NZ), Japan had the practical issue of finding an anti-whaling nation that would agree to go to the ICJ and accept a judgment, for the anti-whaling nations were content to simply continue to block the IWC from enacting any whaling regulations as a means to achieve their anti-whaling objective. (There is a part of the iwc schedule that says the "moratorium" is to be reconsidered "by 1990 at the latest" thanks to their actions to prevent any changes being made. I think this makes it clear someone isn't honouring the whaling convention, don't you?)
Fortunately, formerly Australian PM Kevin Rudd cared more about his political popularity than he did about anti-whaling strategy.
Posted in: Japan using quake disaster budget for whaling aid
-5
davidattokyo
globalwatcher,
Do you include most of Asia and Africa as well as the Norwegians, Icelanders in that?
On the contrary, the anti-whaling people need to be educated to have respect for cultural diversity and international laws and agreements. That is how we can rid the world of hatred.
Posted in: Latin American nations urge Japan to stop whaling
4
davidattokyo
smithinjapan,
Come on, are you seriously arguing that if the earthquake disaster had never occurred the government would not have beefed up security for it's whaling fleet?
Posted in: Japan using quake disaster budget for whaling aid
1
davidattokyo
SwissToni,
Its interesting to see how much of what you described is present in the propaganda of the commercial anti-whaling industry... Substituting "economic" for "environmental" gets us surprisingly close.
Check.
Not economic consequences, but environmental consequences. Check.
The commercial anti-whaling industry does indeed sponsor certain scientists. Check.
(Contrast with the work of the IWC's Scientific Committee - it's no coicidence they were able to unanimously recommend the "revised management procedure" to the IWC politicians for adoption)
Check.
Oh oh oh, triple check.
As of 2011 this one doesn't seem relevant in either direction.
Check.
It sure ain't me suggesting we just ignore the IWC's Scientific Committee...
Heh - well... Paul Watson anybody?
Yes, check.
I'm not scientist but I get disparaged for just posting comments at JT :)
Ab-so-lutely.
That's why no one ever bothers to survey anyone about anything, but geez maybe in this case you are right and just for whale meat opinions as an exception for some reason, surveys are completely useless.
Is this a rational explanation?
There are literally millions of tonnes of sea food product stored like this in Japan, grossly dwarfing a few thousand tonnes of whale meat.
Why do everyday people have food in their own freezers at home.
Why do cold storage facilities around Japan take business decisions to purchase whale meat products from Kyodo Senpaku and store that whale meat.
Are they all crazy, or do you have some personal bias against whale meat that prevents you from seeing it as it is?
Posted in: Japan using quake disaster budget for whaling aid
3
davidattokyo
senseiman,
1) it's effectively banned as of now, but legally the moratorium has to be lifted sooner or later - a permanent ban is illegal under the terms of the whaling convention that it was established under taken together with other international law 2) fighting for international agreements to be honored is a principle well worth fighting for - if not then what is the hope for international relations in future if the Australians or whoever will just renege on their word when some fringe minority gets uppity?
At the end of the day, it's naive to expect the people who have a difference of opinion about with this to just roll over and die. If the shoe were on the other foot I imagine you'd not be just sucking it up, either.
Posted in: Japan using quake disaster budget for whaling aid
0
davidattokyo
dolphingirl,
No dear, it's the anti-whaling people that are looking to use the disaster as an excuse to push their agenda without any regard for the victims of the disaster that are being stubborn and stupid.
Posted in: Japan using quake disaster budget for whaling aid
0
davidattokyo
smithinjapan,
Oh I answered your simple question :) Not my problem if you are can't process anything beyond a binary answer.
It was that AP-GfK poll that was covered at JT recently. It classified groups by their level of interest in eating whales, and found that a majority had some level of interest (as opposed to absolutely no interest). 12% (e.g. 15 million people) were described as being "deeply interested" in eating whales. That is more hard-core than me :)
(I don't know why you would doubt that there are millions of people interested in eating whales, Japan has a large population, each one of them counts as one human being)
Posted in: Japan using quake disaster budget for whaling aid
-3
davidattokyo
smithinjapan,
Excuse me. I couldn't be bothered reading your comment the whole way thru, first time.
Maybe it could (I don't know the full economic impacts of the security spending to say - do you?), but it's not a matter of "one or the other" in the first instance. Japan's government has an obligation to look out for the interests of all it's citizens and interests. And your personal dislike of whaling is not something they take into consideration when deciding whether to protect their citizens and interests or not.
Posted in: Japan using quake disaster budget for whaling aid
2
davidattokyo
The notion of killing animals so that they can be eaten is not a form of "abuse".
Posted in: Whaling fleet off to Antarctica with beefed up security measures
0
davidattokyo
smithinjapan,
Polly is short for "politician".
As for the rest (malcontents etc), try dictionary.com.
They are engaged in legal activities. There is no reason people engaged in a given legal activity ought not be protected by the state. It's up to you to justify a state deliberately neglecting to protect a given subset of it's citizens.
As for the funds, you have bought the commercial anti-whaling propaganda harpoon-and-line.
Posted in: Japan using quake disaster budget for whaling aid
0
davidattokyo
senseiman,
We haven't had free markets. We have had a scientifically unjustified moratorium imposed and maintained 20 years past it's used-by date. This precluded free markets, damaging the interests of both industry and consumers of the products.
My view is that once that has been rectified then free markets all the way.
I would suggest it is nonsense to expect it to be possible for an industry that existed prior to the commercial moratorium to be able to continue to exist inspite of the commercial moratorium.
How many other industries do you expect to prosper after being essentially banned?
I've not seen any massive publicity campaign myself - what, did you receive fliers in the mail or see CMs on TV or something?
The goal of the government subsidising the research programme is not to create a market, but to contribute a scientific basis for future whaling management decisions. I do not think your expectations for a market to develop under these circumstances makes sense.
That's not a statement of fact.
That's nonsensical. How can markets work considering the massive government interference that is the moratorium?
The correct regulatory environment for whaling is not a moratorium, but sustainable catch limits. With quotas in place, and millions of Japanese (literally, according to recent polls) interested in eating whales, it would be seen as a business chance.
There is no need for the moratorium to be maintained if that is all you expect.
This is the weakest part of your argument.
Posted in: Japan using quake disaster budget for whaling aid
-2
davidattokyo
senseiman,
My argument is that only the market knows. (I personally think whale cuisine would exist to some extent once the moratorium is gone. It's the extent that I'm not sure of, but it's not nothing.)
Stiff cheese - if the industry cannot operate within the confines of sustainability, too bad.
(However I expect recovering whale stocks to provide extra scope for expansion for some time, already there are stocks besides the Antarctic minke that can support harvests.)
The moratorium was never "necessitated" in that minke whales were never seriously over-depleted, but certainly poor management by the IWC prior to the moratorium was the main contributor to the depletion of some whale stocks.
However, the future whaling I'm talking about would be done under a modern robust method of calculating safe quotas, not like those of the past such as the "Blue whale unit", which had no biological basis at all.
Free-market thinking and subsidies: I am a free-markets guy, but I am not opposed to subsidies for public-good research (which I consider the research to be), and especially in the case of the whale research part of the costs are borne by those eating the meat products so I think it's a good model, actually. Ultimately I'd prefer to have commercial license fees used to fund any required research in future, but the moratorium precludes this at the current time. (This is the problem - the anti-whalers wish the whaling commission were not for regulating whaling but for eternally banning it, and thus refuse to abolish the moratorium, whereas Japan and others still expect the whaling commission to be a whaling commission, and as a result we get nowhere for 25 years and counting.)
Cost/benefit analysis for policing / security: If one considers the costs of caving to eco-terrorists such as Sea Shepherd (and the consequences of doing so, which go beyond the whaling issue), I think it stands up well to such an analysis. Sea Shepherd will not stop it's attacks on Japanese interests if it were to succeed against whaling, it would just move on to a new target. They need to do so to continue to fund their operations. Personally I think Japan should have come down harder already, as do the Canadians, Icelanders and Norwegians, and this nonsense wouldn't be carrying on.
Posted in: Japan using quake disaster budget for whaling aid
-2
davidattokyo
senseiman,
The other thing is I don't think it makes sense for security costs to be associated to the whaling operation. Protecting a nations' citizens and interests (as with piracy of Somalia) is a cost that ought be borne by society.
Posted in: Japan using quake disaster budget for whaling aid
-3
davidattokyo
senseiman,
There were conservation issues at one point some decades ago, but I really struggle to accept there is any genuine argument against all whaling based on conservation, today.
I myself am a conservationist. I am against harvests of the Antarctic Blue whale stock, as that remains at levels that demand ongoing protection to ensure further time for recovery.
But I would be lying to suggest that that were true of the Antarctic minke whale stock, which seemingly numbers more than 500,000. Even under a conservative harvest regime an annual catch of 2,500 would be perfectly fine.
The moratorium goes against the spirit of the IWC itself. This is the root cause of the IWC's dysfunction.
The "whaling industry" does not exist today besides the government sponsored research programmes. You appear to be convinced that this programme itself is a form of commercial whaling. The fact is that the research programme is conducted in a very different manner to how a commercial whaling operation would be (lower costs, more product, and true commercialization).
Like I said, until the moratorium is a gone-burger, no one knows what the true market potential is.
Posted in: Japan using quake disaster budget for whaling aid
1
davidattokyo
Scrote,
Sure - but that start is for them to determine for themselves. They are free humans, just like you and I. Them having a different idea to you does not make them "narrow minded"
What I think you do not understand is that they, the people who have actually made themselves a livelihood that way, do not agree with you.
Let them be for goodness sake.
Posted in: Japan using quake disaster budget for whaling aid
-2
davidattokyo
senseiman, Nessie
Me too.
That statement appears to be based on quarter of a century of market distortion created by the moratorium, and in reality no one knows the true market potential (although a recent poll did find that literally millions of people have an interest in eating the stuff).
Until the moratorium is gone and the commercial whalers are trying to make money with sustainable quotas once again, this is really a mute argument.
Abolishment of the moratorium has to come first, then Adam Smith will shine the light.
(Given that coastal whaling persists today as it is, I think it's wishful thinking by anyone to believe it would die out entirely - and maybe that's the real reason the anti-whalers refuse to abolish the moratorium).
Posted in: Japan using quake disaster budget for whaling aid
-3
davidattokyo
Scrote...
That's some suggestion. Have you thought about rolling up into Ayukawa and telling them this? Maybe offering them some help?
Posted in: Japan using quake disaster budget for whaling aid
-1
davidattokyo
senseiman,
Since there is a commercial whaling moratorium, no research data can be obtained from commercial catches. This leaves only special permit research as an avenue for obtaining the data, which the whaling convention states all signatories should strive to obtain. Hence Japan's government funds the research in the meantime.
The sooner the needless, unproductive, wasteful commercial whaling moratorium is abolished, the better.
Posted in: Japan using quake disaster budget for whaling aid