JAPAN NEWS AND DISCUSSION
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davidattokyo
No... Japan should continue whaling. If it has to stop something it should stop tuna fishing and importation of tuna.
Posted in: Whalers 'on the run' again, say activists
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davidattokyo
tkoind2, Paul Watson is repeatedly at pains to stress that his is not a "protest" organization. So you can stop trying to argue with him about it. He is not protesting.
Posted in: Whalers 'on the run' again, say activists
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davidattokyo
Aussieooo,
There is a commercial whaling "moratorium" right now, there is hardly any whale meat to be eaten. That's why so few Japanese people are able to eat it.
And that's all. Thousands of tons is nothing, compared with the huge mountains of beef and pork in storage (lots of it from Australia).
The amount of whale meat in storage is also less than Australia's quota of critically endangered southern bluefin tuna that it catches just to fatten up and send to Japan for ridiculous profits.
Disillusioned,
No, it takes longer than that. You should read Japan's research to get more accurate knowledge. But anyway...
If you have 500,000 whales, with a natural rate of population growth of 2-4% each year, you have at least 10,000 NEW minke whales born every year. At least until the population hits it's natural carrying capacity, prior to which density dependence effects kick in and the population finds somewhat of an equilibrium, give or take some thousands of whales each year.
Even if there were only 200,000 minkes, 2% increase each year is 4,000 whales.
So, you're complaining about 1,000 (more than Japan takes) which is a quarter of that, and thats in an extremely pessimistic case where there are only 200,000 minkes instead of 500,000.
I'm simplifying things, but I think you should see that you are worried about a problem that does not exist.
Posted in: Australia: diplomacy, not courts best way to stop whaling
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davidattokyo
See ya Aussieooo :)
Posted in: Australia: diplomacy, not courts best way to stop whaling
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davidattokyo
Because in Japan, whales have long been regarded as a valuable source of food.
Posted in: Australia: diplomacy, not courts best way to stop whaling
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davidattokyo
Aussieooo,
The "propaganda" is from the IWC's Scientific Committee, not only Japan, although in some areas Japan is the only nation with any data.
As for CITES, you only have to consider that the Antarctic Minke whale has been listed by CITES to see that this is true. The Antarctic Minke is not endangered, there are hundreds of thousands of them, according to the estimates of the IWC. So yes, sorry, but CITES is full of crap when they say that every whale species is "endangered"
Posted in: Australia: diplomacy, not courts best way to stop whaling
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davidattokyo
Aussieooo,
Japan's interest in whales is as a resource for exploitation. The science of that resource exploitation is what they are working on.
Posted in: Australia: diplomacy, not courts best way to stop whaling
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davidattokyo
Aussieooo,
Because if the "international program" (Australia's baby) doesn't produce the results required for contributing to the knowledge of whale stock management, then Japan will need to get the data itself.
All power to Australia. If they can produce the same data as Japan, then well done, and I will no longer support lethal permit whaling.
Australia's programme, other than being a propaganda vehicle at this stage, has produced nothing - not even a single peer reviewed research paper! So it's too early for Japan to suddenly believe that it's true.
Posted in: Australia: diplomacy, not courts best way to stop whaling
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davidattokyo
Aussieooo, a main goal of Japan's research is to contribute to the body of knowledge we have about how to sustainably utilise whales. If Australia's research excludes or precludes that goal, then Japan is not going to be especially interested.
Japan is not studying whales "for the hell of it", even if Australia is.
Posted in: Australia: diplomacy, not courts best way to stop whaling
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davidattokyo
Yeah, I do. But don't you know that whales mate and produce offspring? Don't you know that if we kill a few whales, more will be produced to replace them naturally, through the power of the sun?
Posted in: Australia: diplomacy, not courts best way to stop whaling
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davidattokyo
Aussieooo, slow down, and "david" is fine.
Posted in: Australia: diplomacy, not courts best way to stop whaling
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davidattokyo
Aussieooo,
Australia's programme seems to be a big white elephant, and I have no idea what the actual objectives of it are purported to be, although on the surface it looks like a political propaganda vehicle.
Depending on how serious it is, Japan might participate, but if the objectives of the Australian programme do not include objectives in relation to contributing to the optimal utilisation of marine resources including Antarctic whale stocks, then it is certain that Japan will have no choice but to continue it's own programme.
Posted in: Australia: diplomacy, not courts best way to stop whaling
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davidattokyo
Q1
Is that why the LDP is polling as if it is about to get kicked out of power this year?
Japan is not North Korea.
You sound like you read nothing but Greenpeace propaganda.
Q2
CITES classifies whales based on politics, not on science. Even the Antarctic minke is classified on Appendix II, which is ridiculous.
Why wouldn't they? Japan is quite right.
Just because you want them to be listed as endangered, doesn't mean they are. What matters is the numbers of the species, and trends in those. Not whether some bunch of hippie politicians voted yay or nay. That's just propaganda, not reality.
Q3
CITES is a political body. Politicians can vote yes to proposals to list non-endangered species, and they get listed as a result. It doesn't mean the species are endangered. Just look at the whales.
Q4.
There was a "Moratorium" since 1986, a "sanctuary" is just a duplication of that. And the Antarctic minke species for example does not need protection from sustainable exploitation. And for your interest, whales do not breed in the Southern Ocean "Sanctuary", they breed in warmer waters to the north during the austral winter.
Why should Japan have stopped?
Eh... the coasts of WHICH "poor islands and countries"?
Q5
If you hadn't figured it out already, whales and fish are both marine resources. Both are food. And both Australia and Japan exploit marine resources on the high seas, in accordance with international agreements.
Q6,7,8
Not true, there is more, and I already gave you examples. If you want answers to your questions, you have to actually read what I write in response and not ignore everything that is inconvenient.
You have not really read my answers....
For the same reasons as Australia exploits marine resources on the high seas. It's about using marine resources for the benefit of humans, and so long as it's done on a sustainable basis I support it, whether it's Japan or Australia or whoever.
Australia should not feel guilty for exploiting marine resources on the high seas.
The IWC is full of anti-whaling nations that wish to ban whaling entirely, let alone permit more to occur. Australia is the loudest of all anti-whaling nations with such a policy. If you want Japan to expand it's local whaling, then you need to tell your Aussie government that you want it to change it's policy. No use complaining to me or Japan - Japan's government has no room to move, because there is already a ridiculous "moratorium" banning sustainable whale exploitation globally.
Posted in: Australia: diplomacy, not courts best way to stop whaling
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davidattokyo
Aussieooo,
Japan is conducting on the high seas in a manner that is consistent with international agreements to which nations including Australia have put their signature to.
Disillusioned,
Incorrect. It also exploits marine resources on the high seas as well.
Eh?! The pro-whaling lobby is for strict controls to conserve stocks. The anti-whaling lobby is for complete blanket protections for whales, no matter how abundant any given species may be.
All responsible advanced nations that utilise marine resources analyse biological data from their fisheries to determine this. Whaling nations apply the same concepts to whale stock management. Get over it. Whales are not "special".
Posted in: Australia: diplomacy, not courts best way to stop whaling
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davidattokyo
Aussieooo,
My answer to nipandtuck was that if Japanese who know about whaling were "simply horrified at the waste of tax-payers money, and of the internationa embarrassment is causes Japan" (which is regarded around the world as one of the nations having a favourable influence), Japan would not have kept the policy. Fact is, that characterisation is not reality, it's bogus anti-whaling rhetoric.
No they aren't. This is a species that was protected in the 1970's - e.g. more than 30 years ago. The population is recovering nicely, both in the Antarctic and in other places like the North Atlantic. If the fin whale becomes extinct during my lifetime because of a little whaling then I'll give you my bank account details.
CITES doesn't base its whale listings on science. It's politically motivated.
Here you go: Antarctic Blue whale. This species is endangered. Only like 3,000 in the Antarctic. At least they are showing signs of recovery, but it's still too early to be sure and too early to consider hunting them. Japan knows this from it's own research. And guess what. Japan is not hunting this species.
I gave you the answer. The whale "sanctuary" didn't even exist when Japan's programme started, and "sanctuaries" are meaningless with regards to research permit whaling. It's in the IWC's rules.
For the same reasons that Australians don't catch marine resources exclusively in their own EEZ.
There's many more than one data item that can only be obtained via lethal techniques. Stomach contents (prey composition and quantity), reproductive organs etc, plus a recent study published in a western journal to the dismay of anti-whaling NGOs used blubber measurements.
Read up about population dynamics modelling (catch-at-age / virtual population analysis etc), there is lots of information about this with regards to marine resources.
It seems that many western journals won't accept papers based not on the scientific merits but for reasons of western ethics, so whatever the figure is, it doesn't mean anything
Yeah, so what?
Posted in: Australia: diplomacy, not courts best way to stop whaling
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davidattokyo
Why is Australia not happy to only kill fish in its OWN waters?
Posted in: Australia: diplomacy, not courts best way to stop whaling
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davidattokyo
Aussieooo, Cooeebobber, reports in Australia suggest that the Yushin Maru #2 was repaired and returned to sea. Even your cult-idol, Paul Watson, recognises this on his website. The Japanese media doesn't get so excited as Aussies about every operational issue of the whaling fleet - nor do I... You guys really do love this for the drama don't you?
Posted in: Australia: diplomacy, not courts best way to stop whaling
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davidattokyo
Aussieooo,
This is why you are writing a big long response to me huh.
You guys are so funny the way you contradict yourselves. You complain that Japan's research programmes (involving both lethal and non-lethal methods of data collection) is "commercial whaling in disguise", and then complain that the "commercial whaling in disguise" does not make profits.
Your basis premise is wrong, that's why everything seems so strange to you.
Exactly. Why would they hide it? It's not them who is saying that it's "commercial whaling in disguise", it's morons hailing from brain-washed places like Australia.
1) Japan isn't killing endangered whales in its programmes 2) The "sanctuary" wasn't established until 1994, by which time there was already a commercial whaling moratorium, and Japan had already commenced their research programmes 3) IWC "sanctuaries" prevent commercial whaling activities, not scientific permit whaling which is legal under the terms of the international agreement that Australia and Japan have put their signatures to.
Posted in: Australia: diplomacy, not courts best way to stop whaling
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davidattokyo
TJrandom, wow way to totally misquote me and ignore context :) Just out of curiosity, were you one of the folks who voted for Labor?
Mystie, Good luck with your boycott, I wonder why no one else has thought of that these past 25 years. Oh, perhaps a few people did, but the majority don't actually care enough to bother?
Posted in: Australia: diplomacy, not courts best way to stop whaling
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davidattokyo
nipandtuck, hot air yes, but who seriously thought otherwise when they hit the election campaign trail back in 2007?
Posted in: Australia: diplomacy, not courts best way to stop whaling