eyeonwarson's past comments

  • 1

    eyeonwarson

    @ Cleo

    The report mentions only that the sighting surveys were planned according to the IWC survey guideline and were endorsed by the IWC SC. No mention of the survey or observers being paid by the IWC

    Just to save you doing your own research, Page 2 Top table

    http://archive.iwcoffice.org/_documents/commission/IWC62docs/62-10.pdf

    There was no IWC/SOWER survey 2011/2012.

    I`ve already told you why, yet you ignore it. I see no point in discussing it further

    Posted in: Anti-whalers say Japanese fleet heading north

  • 0

    eyeonwarson

    @ Cleo

    The report mentions only that the sighting surveys were planned according to the IWC survey guideline and were endorsed by the IWC SC. No mention of the survey or observers being paid by the IWC.

    Why don`t you ask them as I did? The IWC pays the ** impartial **observer Day rates / salaries. If you wish, look at the breakdown of the SOWER surveys costs and finances to find out who paid who. I know for a fact that the IWC pays the salaries of their obsevers and I also know that compared to comparable other surveys, the pay is low. Check it out, do some research.

    Send them an email, apply for one of the jobs if you have the required knowledge or simply ask them - their email addy is on their homepage, Then report back here as to their answer

    Please explain to the readers how taking a sample of 1000 will affect a population of 515,000 animals, I really look forward to this one

    Answer the question..

    Ignoring your opponents questions whilst demanding answers to your own? Cool ( albeit intellectually weak ) debating tactic, can I do that too? :-)

    Posted in: Anti-whalers say Japanese fleet heading north

  • 1

    eyeonwarson

    @ Cleo

    No, you are the one who does not understand the meaning of the word 'impartial'. The non-lethal survey observers were on a whaling ship, in the pay of the icr. How is that impartial?

    Once again, incorrect, false, wrong. They are paid by the IWC ( and not a great day rate either ) Try and educate yourself so that you don`t spout such rubbish.

    What? The whalers - not the non-lethal survey observers in the pay of the icr - claimed to have sighted 684 minke, of which they killed 266. That's 39% of all the minke they saw.

    The IWC observers are not paid by the ICR. Do you understand this yet? sheeesh

    It was the whalers' decision to abandon the non-lethal survey in favour of the harpoon party

    I`ll repeat, as you really ignore this you can dance all you want, fact is, due to SSCS interference, Valuable non lethal population studies of crucial importance to the IWC were unable to be carried out due to the actions of SSCS

    Interesting to note that even if they had killed every single minke they saw, they still would not have made their quota of 850 plus/minus 10%. Yet they claim they can take over 1000 without affecting the population?

    Please explain to the readers how taking a sample of 1000 will affect a population of 515,000 animals, I really look forward to this one :-)

    Posted in: Anti-whalers say Japanese fleet heading north

  • 0

    eyeonwarson

    @cleo

    And let's face it, if you're happy sitting on a whaling ship and happy to abandon your non-lethal sighting survey to try and ensure more whales killed, you're not treating both sides equally; you're throwing in your lot with the killers. Unless of course you can find any reference to these impartial scientists making a formal complaint about their work being made to take a back seat to the harpoon wallahs

    Interesting that you see non interference on either side by the observers as being" throwing in your lot with the whale killers" but its perfectly clear you still do not understand the meaning of the word "impartial " No worries, I didnt expect anything less

    And they killed nearly 40% of all minke sighted.

    They were not on the Sightings survey then - at the time, they were a security ship - you can dance all you want, fact is, due to SSCS interference, Valuable non lethal population studies of crucial importance to the IWC were unable to be carried out due to the actions of SSCS

    Hows that MODS? still off topic?

    Posted in: Anti-whalers say Japanese fleet heading north

  • 0

    eyeonwarson

    @ Cleo

    You can't accept money to go on a working harpoon ship, share space with people actively engaged in killing whales, do nothing to stop them, and claim to be impartial

    The survey ship is not actively engaged in hunting whales, they are doing a non lethal survey, which part of this are you having trouble comprehending?

    Incidentally, I think you should really look up the meaning of the word " impartial " Here`s the Miriam Webster definition : not partial or biased : treating or affecting all equally

    English can be difficult sometimes :)

    Sea Shepherd have their own rationale for what they do. I have no respect for anyone who kills animals for a living in a cruel, inhumane and painful way, wherever they do it.

    uhuh.. So going by that logic, you shouldn`t have any problems with the 80% of Norwegian minkies hunted that die instantly.

    Somehow though, I suspect that not to be the case :-)

    Posted in: Anti-whalers say Japanese fleet heading north

  • 0

    eyeonwarson

    @ Cleo

    I find it more than distasteful when animals are killed wantonly and inhumanely for the sake of a blatant lie.

    Ah, the animal rights arguement :)

    So do you accept all whaling other than Japanese whaling? ( You seem to believe Japanese whaling is a lie, feel free to correct me if not )

    I don't care how 'hard-working' the 'researchers' might be,if they're aiding the mealy-mouthed whaling industry in any way, they have no credibility as impartial observers.

    Interesting concept, the International Whaling Commission sends impartial observers on the Japanese non lethal line transect surveys, and as far as you are concerned, they have no credibility.

    Uhuh ..

    Logically it follows on that you consider the IWC to have no credibility in that case. But if Sea shepherd claim they are enforcing the SOS established by the IWC. Why are SSCS then claiming enforcement of the SOS by a body that has no credibility in your / their eyes?

    Posted in: Anti-whalers say Japanese fleet heading north

  • -1

    eyeonwarson

    @ Cleo

    That's strange, because during the 2011-2012 season, the Yushin Maru 3 spent a lot of its time with the Shonan Maru 2 chasing the Steve Irwin around Macquarie Island - not much trundling up and down peacefully watching whales going on there.

    I suggest you look up why ( clue, it`s in the report ).

    According to the icr cruise report for 2011-2012, 684 minke were sighted, of which 266 were 'sampled' (killed). Maybe the claim of non-lethal sighting surveys would have more credibility if they weren't using harpoon vessels and killing nearly 40% of all the whales sighted?

    Going off on a bit of a tangent - if they see only 684, what's with the quota of 950? Where's the logic that says you should aim to kill more than you can even find?

    'Your lack of knowledge on how line transect surveys work and how they come to abundance estimates from the data is impressive. I suggest you google " line transect surveys whales " and inform yourself.

    The Line transect surveys have IWC, non Japanese personel / observers onboard usually, perhaps you would like to question their credibility? Google "Paul Ensor, Sower" - hes a Kiwi, or " Martin Cawthorne" also a Kiwi . I don't think Martin`s been on the surveys for a while ( I may be Wrong ) but I do know that Paul was on the surveys up until a few years ago ( he may very well still be on them )

    I will add that I find it distasteful when the credibilty of hard working researchers is questioned for the sake of an obvious anti whaling agenda, but considering we are discussing Sea shepherd, I`m not overly surprised

    Posted in: Anti-whalers say Japanese fleet heading north

  • 0

    eyeonwarson

    @ Cleo

    So do you have any evidence of SS interfering with the peaceful widdle whalers engaged in non-lethal sampling methods? Just quietly trundling up and down the Southern Ocean whale-spotting and jotting numbers down on a bit of paper??

    Certainly :-)

    10.8.3.2 REPORT OF THE 2011/12 CETACEAN SIGHTING SURVEY IN THE ANTARCTIC Plans for a dedicated sighting survey in the Antarctic in the 2011/12 austral summer season were presented last year and subsequently endorsed by the Committee (IWC, 2012f). The research vessels Yushin-Maru No 2 and Yushin-Maru No 3 were to survey in Area IIIE, Area IV and western part of Area V. The survey methods were to be the same as in IWC-SOWER surveys, and trackline design was improved to provide approximately uniform coverage probability. Furthermore, the planned sighting procedure was in accordance with the guidelines agreed by the Scientific Committee (IWC, 2012v). Unfortunately no research activity could be conducted due to external violent interference by an anti-whaling group (SC/64/IA8). ** **The Committee expresses regret that these actions had prevented the sighting survey from being conducted as reportedly planned. Following the cessation of the IDCR/SOWER programme in 2009, these surveys now provide the only dedicated cetacean sighting data in this region of the Southern Ocean that might be used for abundance estimation, and as such are extremely valuable to the work of the Scientific Committee.

    From the IWC scientific committee report for 2012 ( SCRepFiles2012/SC-Report-Final.pdf )

    Sorry, trouble with your English skills again. Are you saying you think the IWC are not happy that they are not getting the data, or that you think the IWC isn't fussed about not getting the data?

    The Committee expresses regret that these actions had prevented the sighting survey from being conducted as reportedly planned.

    No apologies neccessary..

    Posted in: Anti-whalers say Japanese fleet heading north

  • -1

    eyeonwarson

    @ cleo

    eyeon - The whalers seem to think it's necessary to kill the minke in order to count them

    No, this is simply untrue. You may believe it, but it has little to do with reality.

    counting a minke apparently involves needing to know what and how much it ate for dinner and where, exactly how old it is and how many babies it's carrying, yet for humpbacks just numbers is enough.

    Once again, wrong. Other areas of research require lethal sampling. The reason they are not doing lethal sampling on humpbacks i have already stated above. If and when they begin hunting humpbacks, they will collect other data sets from those as well

    Population numbers are done via line transect surveys, a non lethal sampling method, although it`s interesting that due to interference by SSCS, they have not been able to conduct these the last few years - I seriously doubt that the IWC are overly happy that they are not getting this data, especially when Japan finances the ships and the surveys.

    Posted in: Anti-whalers say Japanese fleet heading north

  • -1

    eyeonwarson

    @ Cleo

    Humpback whale population agreed at 42,000, without killing a single one for 'research'. Why do minke have to be killed to be counted, when humpbacks don't?

    Who says minkies need to be killed to be counted?

    Posted in: Anti-whalers say Japanese fleet heading north

  • 0

    eyeonwarson

    @ cabadaje

    The IWC Plenary Committee. Everyone's invited. Scientific cred not required.

    Not quite, Paul Watson and Sea shepherd are banned from the IWC ;-)

    Posted in: Anti-whalers say Japanese fleet heading north

  • 0

    eyeonwarson

    @cleo

    In other words, after nearly two decades and tens of thousands of dead whales, the 'research' has still not produced the desired results, ie., agreed estimates of numbers.

    Look at SCRepFiles2012/SC-Report-Final.pdf

    P37 table 9. Population agreed at 515,000

    Posted in: Anti-whalers say Japanese fleet heading north

  • 0

    eyeonwarson

    whoops, * I am british * typo :o)

    Posted in: Anti-whalers say Japanese fleet heading north

  • -2

    eyeonwarson

    @ cleo

    Seeing as the mods didnt like my last long post, Ill keep this one short

    Sigh. Another vociferous one-topic poster who doesn't understand the English language. Japan says it's carrying out 'research' does not mean I agree with what Japan says.

    I an british, it`s my mother tongue :-) ( incidentally MODS, hows the quote above for impolite? )

    The IWC says Japan is carrying out research - you may disagree with the IWC of course, doesn`t help your arguments too much though

    Posted in: Anti-whalers say Japanese fleet heading north

  • 1

    eyeonwarson

    @ Cleo

    From the same report

    In discussion, it was pointed out that this result indicated that the difference between commercial and JARPA ages in whales of intermediate ages (primarily 15-30 years old) was unlikely to be due to a learning effect. However, both readers were from the same ‘school’, so a bias affecting both readings was still possible. The Committee recommends further experiments (Annex G, Appendix 6) to provide additional insight into ageing errors.

    Seems like they want more data anyway :-)

    and that the results of the JARPA 1 programme are not required for management under the RMP.

    You mean the RMP that the political Arm of the IWC won`t implement?

    Cherry pick by the way - lets look at the full statement

    *The results from the JARPA programme, while not required for management under the RMP, have the potential to improve management of minke whales in the Southern Hemisphere in the following ways: (1) reductions in the current set of plausible scenarios considered in Implementation Simulation Trials; and (2) identification of new scenarios to which future Implementation Simulation Trials will have to be developed (e.g. the temporal component of stock structure). The results of analyses of JARPA data could be used in this way perhaps to increase the allowed catch of minke whales in the Southern Hemisphere, without increasing depletion risk above the level indicated by the existing Implementation Simulation Trials of the RMP for these minke whales. (IWC, 1998a) *

    Off for another giggle

    Posted in: Anti-whalers say Japanese fleet heading north

  • 0

    eyeonwarson

    @ Cleo,

    To my mind? Not at all, to the mind of the ICRW, the international agreement that Australia signed.

    When the IWC was established in 1946 the 'whaling industry' meant killing whales, but 67 years later the world has moved on.

    Some parts of the world have decided not to whale, others continue, it`s the right of IWC members to choose which course they want to follow or both.

    whale watching is now a greater source of income for the whaling industry

    Whale watching has been going on in Norway since the 90´s, and its **never** been a greater source of income to the fishermen who go whaling. Its also **never ** brought in greater income in total than whling in Norway itself. Both whale watching and whaling are conducted in Norway, Iceland and Greenland, best of both worlds. Are you seriously claiming tha right to tell fishermen in another country the jobs and careers they should take? I cannot take that suggestion seriously and neither would they.

    Working to conserve whale stocks to support the whale watching industry is well within the obligations of IWC members to support the orderly development of the (modern) whaling industry.

    Whale stocks are not threatened by whaling - period.

    Australia wants to end all whaling - period. They will not accept any kind of commerciial whaling - period. So please tell us how that reconciles with the countries who wish to whale?

    Australia does not support any ( modern ) whaling

    When you find links to independant sources that state authoritively that Japan has no intentions of following IWC restrictions on commercial whaling in the SO should it ever restart, let us know.

    Great that you accept that Japan carries out research in the SO ( if you disagree, tell us who provides the data for IWC population figures and who finances this) I suggest you look up information on the SOWER surveys

    Posted in: Anti-whalers say Japanese fleet heading north

  • -1

    eyeonwarson

    @ Cleo

    Japan says it's carrying out 'research' to allow for commercial whaling to be resumed,

    Correct

    but it stands to reason the IWC is not going to allow commercial whaling in a whale sanctuary;

    You`re assuming the so called sanctuary is a permanent feature, which is incorrect, it is reviewed each decade. In addition, Japan has a reservation to minke whales in the SOS. Japan has no objection to the Indian ocean sanctuary and has no intentions of whaling there either.

    so either Japan is not carrying out bone fide research (actually that's a given)

    Incorrect, they are carrying out bona fide research ( who do you think collects the population data in the SO? Who do you think supplies the ships for the surveys in the SO? Who do you think finances the ships in the SO surveys?) Please inform yourself better.

    or they are giving notice that they have no intention of abiding by any restrictions the IWC may impose on commercial whaling should it ever restart.

    Please supply links to independant sources that state authoritively that Japan has no intentions of following IWC restrictions on commercial whaling in the SO should it ever restart.

    Blatant lack of good faith on the part of Japan..

    Now that is hilarious, as opposed to Australia?, who has no intention of fulfilling it`s obligations under the ICRW? Who has publicly stated that they will not suppost any return to commercial whaling? If Australia were acting in good faith, they would remove themselves from the IWC as they have no intentions of doing anything other than blocking any whaling other than aboriginal whatsoever.

    Incidentally, Greece has quit the IWC, one less anti whaling vote and Mauritania can now vote again at the next IWC meeting in Korea :-)

    Posted in: Anti-whalers say Japanese fleet heading north

  • -4

    eyeonwarson

    @ Cleo

    Japan has lodged a formal objection to the sanctuary for minke whales and Japan isn`t whaling commercially in the SO sanctuary

    Try reading up on how international treaties and obligations work.

    In addition, I`d suggest reading IWC Document Number IWC/48/33. as to the legality of the SO sanctuary in the first place. Japan has asked the IWC to submit a case for the SO Sanctuary to a relevant legal body for judgement and analysis. The IWC has refused to do so.

    Posted in: Anti-whalers say Japanese fleet heading north

  • -5

    eyeonwarson

    @ cleo

    Is SS a member of the IWC?

    SSCS claims to base their actions on enforcing IWC mandates, ( Sourthern Ocean Sanctuary ) It`s the height of disingenious sophistry and hypocrisy to claim justification for your actions based on the resolutions of the IWC plenary commitee and then ignore the very same IWC resolutions when the IWC denounces your actions and requires you to desist.

    Posted in: Anti-whalers say Japanese fleet heading north

  • -1

    eyeonwarson

    @ Cleo

    Yes they have. RECALLING that the Commission has repeatedly requested Contracting Parties to refrain from issuing special permits for research involving the killing of whales within the Southern Ocean Sanctuary, has expressed deep concern at continuing lethal research within the Southern Ocean Sanctuary, and has also recommended that scientific research involving the killing of cetaceans should only be permitted where critically important research needs are addressed;.....CALLS UPON the Government of Japan to suspend indefinitely the lethal aspects of JARPA II conducted within the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary.

    Thats a resolution from the plenary commitee, not the Scientific commitee. The plenary commitee, is the political arena where the anti whaling countries can show their voters how green they are each year.

    Here`s another resolution from the Plenary commitee of the IWC

    REAFFIRMING the statement on safety at sea made at the Commission’s Intersessional Meeting held in Heathrow, UK, 6-8 March, 2008, which noted reports of dangerous actions by the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society (SSCS) in the Southern Ocean directed against Japanese vessels, called upon the SSCS to refrain from dangerous actions that jeopardise safety at sea, and on vessels and crews concerned to exercise restraint, condemned any actions that are a risk to human life and property in relation to the activities of vessels at sea, and again urged Contracting Governments to take actions, in accordance with relevant rules of international law and respective national laws and regulations, to cooperate to prevent and suppress actions that risk human life and property at sea and with respect to alleged offenders

    http://iwc.int/cache/downloads/blps560ro0ocsckc0gwggwo8k/63-17.pdf

    If SSCS wont follow the resolutions of the IWC plenary commitee, are you really surprised that Japan doesn t either?

    The funny part is that SSCS says the IWC SO sanctuary gives them the mandate to do what they do ( amongst other things ) but ignore the IWC when they tell them to stop what they are doing...

    They can`t have it both ways

    Posted in: Anti-whalers say Japanese fleet heading north

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