JAPAN NEWS AND DISCUSSION
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1
Why do Japanese change their attitude when they communicate with foreigners?
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2
Confrontation
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3
U.S. Navy investigating how parts fell off aircraft near Atsugi
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4
California court to decide if SeaWorld whales are illegal 'slaves'
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5
Kuroki reported pregnant 2 weeks after denying relationship with Akanishi
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kinniku
sabiwabi,
Obviously, Israel has been brought up by Hamas and that is mentioned in the article as it should be. It is news because of that. However, that does not mean that Israel is actually relevant to this incident. If that is the end of the relevance, it does indeed seem there is little relevance. Just because someone mentions the name of a person or country does not neccessarily mean that person is guilty or involved in anything.
The Gazan War is completely irrelevant to this discussion. As to al-Mabhouh, he was not a peace worker. Considering al-Mabhouh was a senior Hamas military commander and one of the founders of the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades and that he had never been involved with anything resembling charity work or help for the needy in his positions with Hamas, it is highly unlikely his work in Dubai had anything to do with importing much needed medicines. It is more likely he was working to get weapons smuggled into Gaza as he had done in the past. As you yourself have admitted, Israel did have motive to want him dead, whether they actually were involved or not is a different story.
With rockets, bombs and automatic weapons, actually, if we are being accurate.
Personally, I don't see the point in killing this person. In the end, it changes nothing. However, you have admitted that the potential dangerous this individual caused over the years certainly was more than enough motive. Again, sad as it is, this kind of thing goes on amongst not only intelligence agencies, but also weapons dealers and members of organized crime. It is hardly unusual in the Middle East or around the world and it is hardly limited to Israel or Mossad.
Well, we do not even know if Mossad or any Israeli agency was involved in that incident or not. They also could have been members of a crime organization. Israel, like any society, has them. Just because that was what was accused does not make it neccessarily so. The US and Britain accused Iraq of having tons of WMDs, and it seems that that was not so.
Agreed.
Agreed.
Again, I disagree. Having a history of using false passports along does not make it 'their style' it is very common for members of intelligence agencies in general to have 'alternate' passports and it is quite well known that Mossad is quite competent at doing the job they do.
Since it seems that the names of most of the people Dubai named either, don't exist or claim they are not the people mentioned, I doubt there will be any killings of that sort of the people who have already spoken up.
Posted in: Dubai wanted list for Hamas slaying faces snags
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kinniku
Since when is one person a 'spree'?
Posted in: Dubai wanted list for Hamas slaying faces snags
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kinniku
Sorry: 'suggestions that have lead you'
Posted in: Dubai wanted list for Hamas slaying faces snags
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kinniku
However, those, like myself, offering the opinion that it might not have been Mossad have suggested reasons why this might be so. I was hoping you might have suggesting that have lead to your opinion that Israel is involved.
Posted in: Dubai wanted list for Hamas slaying faces snags
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kinniku
Actually, to take off from this angle, does this also mean that it is not important if Israel and Mossad had nothing to do with this?
Posted in: Dubai wanted list for Hamas slaying faces snags
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kinniku
Of course, you have every right to your opinion. I was just curious if it is based on something factual or not.
Posted in: Dubai wanted list for Hamas slaying faces snags
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kinniku
It is if you choose to blame Mossad.
Posted in: Dubai wanted list for Hamas slaying faces snags
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kinniku
Accusing someone and it being true are not the same thing. This is true with this case as well. Lots of people are guessing that lots of other people could be the killers. That does not mean that they were the killers.
Posted in: Dubai wanted list for Hamas slaying faces snags
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kinniku
adaydream,
We have no idea that Israel is even involved. What makes you specifically think they are?
Posted in: Dubai wanted list for Hamas slaying faces snags
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kinniku
The Gaza War has nothing to do with this discussion. In my humble opinion, neither does Israel this time.
Posted in: Dubai wanted list for Hamas slaying faces snags
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kinniku
I have to confess that I do not understand the reasoning behind such protestations. I can't recall anyone every suggesting Israel/Mossad have never killed anyone or had anyone killed. Intelligence agencies do this kind of thing and have done this kind of thing all the time. What is being suggested, by myself and others, is that looking at the entire operation leads to the conclusion that it is not likely Mossad is involved. No one is saying 'Mossad would never kill anyone.' or 'Israel would never kill anyone.'
Posted in: Dubai wanted list for Hamas slaying faces snags
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kinniku
Certainly, al-Mabhouh was not a peace worker. Considering al-Mabhouh was a senior Hamas military commander and one of the founders of the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades and that he had never been involved with anything resembling charity work or help for the needy in his positions with Hamas, it is highly unlikely his work in Dubai had anything to do with importing much needed medicines. It is more likely he was working to get weapons smuggled into Gaza as he had done in the past.
Posted in: Dubai wanted list for Hamas slaying faces snags
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kinniku
Of course, spies sometimes get caught during their operations. Of course, this also goes for Mossad agents. I would never suggest Mossad agents (or any other intelligence agents) are perfect or that they never make mistakes. I also would never suggest Mossad agents (or any other intelligence agents) would never used forged or fake passports. Quite the opposite, I have suggested from the beginning that the passports would probably be fakes.
The examples you gave do not show any lack of intelligence (IQ wise) on the part of Mossad or its agents. Spies sometimes get caught. In fact, in the New Zealand example, there seems to be no specific proof of Mossad involvement, leading to the word 'suspected' being used.
However, it is unrealistic for anyone to think that it is an uncommon practice of members of intelligence agencies to hold doctored passports. Of course they would. What I am referring to is the way this operation was performed. Again, it does not look like a Mossad type of operation. The latest news saying the suspects used passports with names of Israeli duel citizens confirms that it is unlikely that Mossad is involved.
Again, it really does not seem as if Mossad or Israel is involved.
Posted in: Dubai wanted list for Hamas slaying faces snags
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kinniku
I think you misunderstood me. I would never suggest Mossad agents (or any other intelligence agents) are perfect or that they never make mistakes. I also would never suggest Mossad agents (or any other intelligence agents) would never used forged or fake passports. Quite the opposite, I have suggested from the beginning that the passports would probably be fakes.
The examples you gave do not show any lack of intelligence (IQ wise) on the part of Mossad or its agents. Spies sometimes get caught. In fact, in the New Zealand example, there seems to be no specific proof of Mossad involvement, leading to the word 'suspected' being used.
However, it is unrealistic for anyone to think that it is an uncommon practice of members of intelligence agencies to hold doctored passports. Of course they would. What I am referring to is the way this operation was performed. Again, it does not look like a Mossad type of operation. The latest news saying the suspects used passports with names of Israeli duel citizens confirms that it is unlikely that Mossad is involved.
Posted in: Dubai says Hamas man killed by European hit squad
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kinniku
I disagree completely. Mossad works extremely intelligently. That is one thing that can be said with confidence. It is not a sloppy agency. I don't know to which operations you are referring. However, they do not sound like Mossad related operations at all. Neither does this incident.
Posted in: Dubai says Hamas man killed by European hit squad
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kinniku
Great. Now Ahmadinejad can finally respond to questions about his comments in 2005 by clearing saying 'No, I did not mean that. Iran would never suggest Israel should be wiped off the face of the earth.'
Then these two can kiss and make up!
Posted in: Netanyahu: Israel not planning war with Iran
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kinniku
Sorry, second time for this mistake! 'too sloppy'. (Speaking of sloppy!;-)
Posted in: Dubai wanted list for Hamas slaying faces snags
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kinniku
I agree with Molenir. I had doubts from the beginning that it was Mossad. I now highly doubt Mossad had anything to do with this. First, it was the overall sloppiness. Second, the fact that so many people were used so obviously. Third, that after all is said and done, Israel would get very little in return for such an investment of time, manpower, and resources, not to mention the obvious security risks. However, now it is ridiculous to think Mossad would use faked passports with names of Israeli duel citizens on them. Way to sloppy.
Posted in: Dubai wanted list for Hamas slaying faces snags
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kinniku
Well, looking at this and related articles, Israel's name popped up from the beginning. As Grafton correctly points out, Mossad's operations go much more smoothly than this one or the one in Iran. In fact, in this case, Mossad would not have had to go to all this trouble to get al-Mabhouh. They could have easily gotten him much closer to home if they really wanted him. I can't see the Israel government spending the manpower, time and resources for this type of operation. The end result just does not seem worth it in this case. His death really does not change anything greatly for Israel.
ETA: Grafton, another excellenly written post. Although, personally I think it is an organized crime (weapons related) hit rather than Hamas taking care of him. Although your point about the lack of security around al-Mabhouh certainly is puzzling.
Posted in: Dubai says Hamas man killed by European hit squad
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kinniku
Sorry, 'too sloppy'.
Posted in: Dubai says Hamas man killed by European hit squad