nigelboy's past comments

  • -9

    nigelboy

    It's a witch hunt decided by citizens group who are basing their judgment based on emotion rather than the law. I seriously doubt these defendants would be handed down with any penalty.

    Posted in: 3 former TEPCO execs to face criminal charges in nuclear crisis

  • 0

    nigelboy

    Japan has not had anything close to food self-sufficiency going back to the early 20th Century.

    http://www.maff.go.jp/j/zyukyu/zikyu_ritu/011.html

    http://www.maff.go.jp/j/zyukyu/zikyu_ritu/013.html Click on the first.

    It appears Japan had a self sufficiency of 78% in 1961 which was higher than Germany and Netherlands at that time.

    Posted in: Japanese butter on the table in Pacific trade talks

  • 0

    nigelboy

    China and Russia have a much longer relationship (than, say USA and Japan), and so yes everything has not been perfect... but now it seems their respective major interests are gelling and becoming stronger, which is more than you can say for the turbulent issues between Japan/Japanese people and what the U.S. wants. In fact, as some other media has pointed out, the China and Russia paradigm is becoming the most sophisticated in the world, and we only see what is on the surface of their partnership.

    Wishful thinking, me thinks. It's akin to KMT and Communist back in the days of World War II where both don't trust each other but the necessity to fight the common enemy at that time gave them no choice but to not attack each other.

    http://fortune.com/2014/05/22/putins-china-pivot-all-tactics-no-trust/

    "..In terms of political values, Putin and the Chinese Communist Party are united in their hostility towards Western democracy. But hatred, unlike love, does not form lasting bonds.....Russia and China are tactical partners, pure and simple"

    Posted in: China, Russia to hold military drills in Sea of Japan

  • -2

    nigelboy

    The mobilisation law sent people to those areas:

    This is false. 国民徴用令, enacted in 1939, were not applicable to those you describe. This is another example wikipedia (English version) providing inaccurate information. As stated in the MOFA bulletin which touches this procedure, the migration of workers were strictly voluntary. In 1942, the policy changed where companies would request the local governments agencies to place a want ad and collect applicants but it was still voluntary and is not under the 1939 mobilization law.

    I haven't made any such blanket statement though, have I? In fact in near enough every post on this page I have clearly told you that it's not about elevating Koreans or saying they were the only ones who suffered; it's about recognising that they did suffer along with various other groups. See my 2nd previous post for a list (incomplete) of other groups who also suffered.

    What you are essentially doing is to maximizing the minimum (Koreans) and minimizing the maximum (Japanese in Japan) in regards to the war time labor. In addition, it's completely erroneous to place the POW's along with the people of Japan (which includes Koreans). It's distortion.

    Based on what survey? And anyway it's still irrelevant

    Based on the number of applicants and the quota which exceeded over 60 times. The link was provided already.

    No, I would say many Koreans suffered.

    Compared to what Japanese in Japan had been subjected to under the same law, a "few" is even an upgrade.

    Not few. And however many it was, you have to acknowledge that it happened to them and recognise it without ecquivocation. They are / were individual people, they suffered, and it should be recognised and apologised for

    Like I said, compared to what Japanesein Japan, it's a few. It's called perspective. I don't see necessity of recognition when you can basically argue that EVERYBODY 'suffered' in one way or another when your country is at war.

    Posted in: Japanese company apologizes to U.S. POWs for WWII forced labor

  • -1

    nigelboy

    And does Pr. Harada's work disprove that the Japanese military was in de facto control of Korea at the time and that the Imperial Palace in Seoul was surrounded by Japanese troops at the time?

    He doesn't mention it. But I can see why there was a presence there for protection of the members for both sides as evidenced by the arson of Korean minister's houses and assisination attempts.

    Does it prove anything at all? Not according to this

    Not really. It's the same lame argument used because they (Korean professors who participated in this 2001 symposium) didn't like the contents of the Minister's memorial.

    The mobilisation law sent people to those areas. Anyway it's not relevant to your attempted point about Japanese mine deaths. And anyway regardless of mobilisation laws there was forced mobilisation in Manchukuo:

    Mobilization law did not "sent people to those areas".

    You're quantifying suffering? Callous. And who made you the arbiter of suffering? The Koreans suffered; you admit that. So just stop equivocating. You can't refuse to recognise the suffering of a group of people on the basis that another group of people also suffered.

    Yes. I hate blanket statements that leaves an impression that Koreans were the only ones who suffered.

    It's not about specific recognition. It's about recognition for them as well as recognition for all others who suffered. There is no need to quantify who suffered more; just acknowledge everyone who did. These were people, not numbers. Your position is not that "Koreans should not merit any 'specific' recognition" at all; your position is that Koreans merit no recognition, despite the fact that you admit many of them suffered.

    Of course I do. It's about putting the situation into perspective then determine such recognition is applicable.

    Only some of them

    Actually it's most. You can be for the war effort and at the same time be subjected to the mobilization order.

    Only some of them, and that isn't relevant to those Koreans who were used as forced labourers.

    But they're Koreans though. It seems like you're obsessed with the "quantity" in which you have criticized me for.

    Or are you saying that you are also willing to accept the inclusion of "SOME" in your point as well? (As in "some Koreans suffered")

    And I believe it's disgraceful to refuse to recognise the suffering of one specific ethnic group amongst the various groups who suffered. All those people suffered; acknowledge them all.

    I think we have come to an agreement.

    In 1939, to help the war efforts, the Japanese government implemented an immobilization policy where millions of Japanese In Japan were conscripted to serve various labor needs. The said policy was exempt for Korean Japanese in Korean Peninsula until September of 1944 when few were conscripted to help the war efforts.

    Posted in: Japanese company apologizes to U.S. POWs for WWII forced labor

  • -2

    nigelboy

    People like nigelboy and others on here will still keep saying Japan has apologized (despite disagreeing completely with it, and not recognizing it, and denying atrocities, sexual slavery, etc.) and they can't figure out why people are demanding Japan keep doing it, etc. Abe is going to single-handedly continue to send this country backwards while claiming to be 'forward thinking'. He does, after all, often say, "I'll prove to you like my war-criminal grand-pappy did!".

    Lame counter smith.

    The reason 'why people (referring to C&K only) are demanding Japan keeping doing it' is because they aren't interested in reconciliation for in the past, Japan always caved in with another apology only to be countered with an over leveraged card called 'sincerity' where C&K raises the 'war time issue' with even more inflated/exaggerated assertions and when somebody within the Japanese government simply questions the accuracy and validity, they cry 'denial' and seek another apology. Never ending loop.

    As some mentioned already, everybody else moved on. Abe stated on numerous occasions that he upholds the statements of Murayama and Kono and yet C&K still whine. Personally, I much prefer Abe don't even issue another statement.

    Posted in: Japan shouldn't cave to foreign pressure on PM war anniversary remarks, says aide

  • -1

    nigelboy

    Utter tosh.

    Pure urban legend. As stated by Professor Tamaki Harada states

    "...しかし、原田環氏(広島女子大教授)の最新の研究によれば、(「第二次日韓協約調印と大韓帝国皇帝高宗」・『青丘学術論集』所載・二〇〇四年四月)皇帝自身への脅迫どころか、高宗皇帝自身が協約締結のリーダーシップを発揮していたことが明らかになっている。

     原田教授は、『五大臣上疏文』などのテキストを中心に高宗皇帝の言動を検討し、「実際の高宗は老練な宮廷政治家であり、韓国の外交権を日本に委譲することには反対であったが、第二次日韓協約の締結に際しては、日本の協約案を修正して調印する方向に韓国政府の大臣達を動かしている」と述べる。"

    According to the latest work by Prof. Harada, it was the King himself who displayed his leadership in the execution of the treaty where he even edited Japan's original draft.

    http://www.seisaku-center.net/node/188

    <http://www.jkcf.or.jp/history_arch/second/3-02j.pdf

    It's only when the public outcry intensified that the King did a complete 180.

    That shows deaths in coal mining accidents in Japan. But most of the deaths under Japanese forced labour happened outisde Japan; what are the figures for Manchuria, Sakhalin, the Korean peninsula, etc?

    There was no mobilization order in those area.

    Well, it looks like we've made some progress here. You are no longer asserting that Koreans didn't suffer; in fact you have repeatedly tacitly admitted it. Indeed, the argument is now simply that you don't think the suffering of those Koreans should be acknowledged or apologised for

    Yes. I made a point of quantifying the 'suffering' by briefly describing the situation in Japan and her citizens (including Koreans) at that time. And by doing so, it is apparent that the degree in which the Koreans 'suffered' during those time are of the least. Therefore, my position is that the 'suffering' of Koreans should not merit any 'specific' recognition and certainly not in the same line with that of POW. I believe it's disgraceful that such position should be even contemplated considering the fact that Koreans were for the war efforts and those who joined were mostly assigned as prison guards.

    Posted in: Japanese company apologizes to U.S. POWs for WWII forced labor

  • -21

    nigelboy

    Not really. It simply means that Japan will continue to play this double talk game.

    I don't even think Abe and the Japanese people wants play this 'talk' game. In term of global diplomacy, Abe has proven that staying away from the loudest two while strengthening the relationship with the rest world is the best course.

    Posted in: Japan shouldn't cave to foreign pressure on PM war anniversary remarks, says aide

  • -17

    nigelboy

    The four posters who posted before you, already answered that

    . Not really. It simply means that two countries have and will complain no matter what while the rest of the world moved on.

    Posted in: Japan shouldn't cave to foreign pressure on PM war anniversary remarks, says aide

  • -15

    nigelboy

    The conservative Abe has said he upholds past statements including then-premier Tomiichi Murayama’s “heartfelt apology” for the suffering caused by Japanese military aggression during the war.

    So what's the problem?

    Posted in: Japan shouldn't cave to foreign pressure on PM war anniversary remarks, says aide

  • -2

    nigelboy

    It was a bilateral treaty forced upon one government by another

    Not even close. "Fish jumped into the net" which best describes the situation. This resulted due to the failure of the Korean government. It's practically a self admission.

    How about you don't go aroud quoting 1926 books when the events in question happened after that? And even if life in Korea did improve dramatically according to certain measures, that still would not make it okay to deny that some Koreans were used as forced labour. Another non sequitur.

    I wouldn't even mention it if you hadn't brought this so-called 'struggles' during the era.

    It isn't very relevant, in fact it's a complete tangent; as I said above the dangers inherent in mining today aren't relevant to forced labour in WW2, but anyway:

    For Japan, from 1900 to 1980, total of about 5,500 dead or missing.

    <http://www.econ.ryukoku.ac.jp/~tlee/seminar-8.files/G1-%E9%89%B1%E5%B1%B1%E5%8A%B4%E5%83%8D%E3%81%AB%E3%81%8A%E3%81%91%E3%82%8B%E8%81%B7%E6%A5%AD%E7%92%B0%E5%A2%83-ver2.pdf

    Which doesn't stand because it's irrelevant. You can't refuse to recognise the suffering of a group of people on the basis that another group of people also suffered. Non sequitur. Even if they did suffer less, they still suffered; so just acknowledge that without saying "but, but".

    It's relevant. It's heart of the argument. It's not whether or not group of people tested positive on a 'suffering' litmus test considering that fact that everybody else around them at that time tested positve. It's like a guy boasting about his scratch covered by a band aid while the rest of the listening crowd has cast on his arms and legs. What kind of messed up logic would it be to specifically recognize the least suffered and/or least contributed? It makes no sense other than your desire to implement the blanket statement of "Koreans suffered".

    Posted in: Japanese company apologizes to U.S. POWs for WWII forced labor

  • -1

    nigelboy

    http://www.manilalivewire.com/2015/05/a-philippines-defense-equipment-wish-list-submitted-in-japan/

    At least the Philippine government is taking this South China Sea conflict seriously.

    Posted in: Philippine top court orders gov't to defend Japan drills

  • -2

    nigelboy

    It seems you've lost track of why we're discussing Japan's annexation of Korea.

    And as I have repeated several times, it's due to the failure of the Korean government and if there was to be any blame whatsoever, it's their own people. This wasn't a proclamation by the Japanese government. It was a bilateral treaty executed by both governments.

    Our discussion of the annexation started for the reasons stated above. The forced labour in terrible conditions which is the main point of this discussion happened mostly in the 1940s. My discussion of the annexation with you doesn't mean you can get away with quoting a 1926 book as evidence against abuses in the 1940s. That is really most dishonest of you, and you can consider yourself completely busted.

    And if you simply want to stick to the mobilization law, that's fine by me. But don't go around ignoring that Koreans life in the peninsula improved dramatically.

    Indeed. So? It's irrelevant to forced labour in WW2. In any case we're not only talking about mines, and the death rate in those Japanese mines / shipyards / etc was far higher than in mines elsewhere either then or today.

    Do you have anything to back this up?

    This elevation theme of yours is particularly tedious. Once again, not elevated; just recognised. Once again, not versus the Japanese who also suffered; I know Japanese also suffered, but their suffering is simply not relevant to that of the Koreans who suffered. You can't refuse to recognise the suffering of a group of people based on the fact that another group of people suffered too. Non sequitur.

    They suffered considerable less. That's my point.

    This argument doesn't make any sense at all. It's pretty clear what is meant by forced and suffered, and there is plenty of context throughout this discussion about why they apply. You haven't "defeated my narrative" in any way whatsoever; every single one of your arguments on this page has been a total failure. And it isn't my narrative anyway; see Japanese compensation to Korea in 1965, see Japanese acknowledgement of forced labour at UNESCO sites, see the quote from Mr Okamoto above, etc.

    Of course I've defeated your repeated narrative. By conveniently leaving out the historical background during that time where Koreans were the least to suffer, their recognition should not be anywhere close to that of the Japanese in the mainland and certainly not in the vicinity of the POW as addressed in this article.

    Posted in: Japanese company apologizes to U.S. POWs for WWII forced labor

  • 3

    nigelboy

    So you mean "wacko groups" are making more sense than the Abe and Aquino cabinets by questioning their unlawful actions.

    It's a "drill".

    Posted in: Philippine top court orders gov't to defend Japan drills

  • 2

    nigelboy

    They have a political party and in 2013 received 453,491 political votes giving them 1 seat in Congress. They are a small organization which may have brought this issue up just to make headlines.

    If it's true, that is considered "wacko fringe group" which is even below the Japanese wacko group of The People's Life Party & Taro Yamamoto and Friends.

    Posted in: Philippine top court orders gov't to defend Japan drills

  • 5

    nigelboy

    Ha!! Doesn't haunt Japan tho.LoL, you people enjoyed decades & decades of peace. Baffling isn't it

    All because of "reinterpreting" the article 9 by the previous cabinets which includes the U.S. Seucurity Agreement, JSDF law and it's establishment of JSDF, and the revamped ANPO. It's really not 'baffling' at all.

    Irrelevant. It's a matter of chinese pride. After a century of humiliation, good for them.

    It simply means that their humilation lingers on based on the BS narrative that they make up and this is just something to relieve this mental stress they imposed upon their brainwashed masses. Good for them.

    the East China Sea lately? Probably not

    Practially unguarded and unoccupied and yet the Chinese government still adheres to the median line which they claim they do not recognize. All this because of a piece of paper under Article 5 signed by two states.

    Posted in: China shows off victory over Japan logo

  • 5

    nigelboy

    Regardless of the many flaws of the Chinese government at the time, Chiang Kai-shek’s government, I think it’s fair to say that they never, neither then nor now, have been given sufficient credit for what has often been regarded as a purely American victory in Asia, and particularly the Pacific.

    Credit? Hell no. As a result of Operation Ichigo, the U.S. had to alter their plan to attack mainland Japan from China to South Pacific islands.

    Let's not forget the fact that Chiang Kai Shek used Miao Pin as a mediator for immediate cease fire and to broker the IJA forces to join them in the fight against Communist.

    Posted in: China shows off victory over Japan logo

  • 1

    nigelboy

    LoL. The BS narrative is not so much BS after all. Look who gets to "throw it in your face" with a parade in Sept

    So who's attending? Thanks for helping my argument.

    McArthur had higher expectations of his (then) japanese subjects. Sad, after 70 yrs of peace and a flashy "economic boom" japan still cannot determine it's own future security.

    Legacy of McArthur's failure in regards to security that haunts U.S. today.

    Posted in: China shows off victory over Japan logo

  • -2

    nigelboy

    As far as this discussion is concerned, you pulled it out of thin air. I was talking about the 1905 treaty and you know I was. I know full well what the Treaty of Shimonoseki was thank you, but it doesn't change the fact that the subsequent 1905 treaty and later annexation were forced on Korea by Japan and took away the independence of which you speak.

    What's the relevance? It still doesn't change the fact that despite the protection, the Korean government utterly failed to govern themselves which is why the "fish jumped into the net" resulted.

    Re Irelands "New Korea": very smart (not to mention most disingenuous) of you to quote from a book on Japan's governance of Korea that was written in 1926, well before the events that we're discussing. Nice try but unforunately I can use Google. We are talking about human rights abuses in the 1940s, not the 1920s.

    Well, you did mention the annexation and how people of Korea were abused since then.

    You already asked me that a few posts back. My answer was "Koreans worked in the same kind of harsh conditions as POWs and suffered similarly appalling death rates" to which all you could say was "No they did not", and to which I further replied "Yes they did. That is why so many of them died, why Japan agreed to pay compensation in 1965, and why Japan's recent UNESCO bid stated that they did". All of your bickering is just bickering and doesn't change any of those facts. Maybe you need to stop arguing with me and go ask the Japanese government why they think that so many Koreans suffered as forced labourers. The answer of course is simply that they did.

    Working in the mines is still a life threatning work with thousands and thousands of die each year throughout the world. Why is Korean deaths need to be elevated or recognized versus that of the hudreds times more death of Japanese under the same condition during that period? Your use of words like "forced" and "suffered" completely lacks context or you choose to avoid them completely because doing so defeats your repeated narrative.

    Posted in: Japanese company apologizes to U.S. POWs for WWII forced labor

  • 1

    nigelboy

    Sure they cared about the their own people. These were men who saw their mothers, fathers, brothers killed. Sisters raped. Cities destroyed.

    Gotta love the BS narrative much like those anti-Japan war drama that they flood on TV airwaves.

    Posted in: China shows off victory over Japan logo

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