nigelboy's past comments

  • 0

    nigelboy

    bam_boo

    We also seem to agree that the Japanese military directly coerced women and enslaved them in many well documented cases in various Asian nations.

    How should I put this?

    Speak for yourself.

    To conduct a mass scale enforcement of women through coersion and forceful tactics by the Japanese military,requires at that time, in an age of no e-mails or internet, at least a written imperial order (much like the mandatory draft) where such documents are dispersed to various local governments and agencies throughout the occupied area of Japan at that time. You simply cannot destroy every single one of them. Completely unrealistic.

    In addition, we have various documented incidents of police aprehending those brokers and middlemen who attempted to forcefully abduct girls and women. (links already given above by couple posters). We also have the Japanese Army shut down brothel house and court martial the one who was responsible when they found out such forceful recruitment was taking place (Semarang).

    I don't think anyone here is stating that some unfortunate incidents did happen. But to claim that the Japanese government and the Japanese military at that time condoned these unfortunate incidents is simply ridiculous.

    Posted in: Japan asks U.S. publisher to change 'sex slave' reference in textbook

  • 0

    nigelboy

    There's plenty of evidence that stands against your really far-fetched claim. Even the AWF homepage, not exactly an independent source, features plenty of evidence and testimonies that corroborate this.

    There isn't. That's why I'm requesting them. So I'm now asking you directly. What 'mainstream historians' works with supporting evidences convinced you to take your current position?

    I don't know the exact wording of the McGraw Hill textbook, but the term "sex slave" is agreed on by the international scientific community and except for right-wing Japan hardly anybody tries to deny that women were enslaved in the comfort stations, so I think it would be wise of the Japanese government not to instigate trouble as it only leeds to more bad press internationally.

    I posted the EXACT passage of the McGraw Hill textbook @ Jan. 17, 2015 - 04:21AM JST and it's not the term the Japanese government is complaining about but the content/wording describing the comfort women. I'm simply amazed that you are backing McGraw Hill despite not even reading the two paragraphs.

    Posted in: Japan asks U.S. publisher to change 'sex slave' reference in textbook

  • -4

    nigelboy

    There is plenty of violence agains women we could talk about, but this is a thread about the violence against women as a result of the Japanese comfort women system, thats why it's narrowed down.

    Actually, there isn't for it's only the Japanese government who had addressed this issue while the others that are mentioned are from a standpoint of comparison, completely ignored.

    The degree to how much women and to what degree they system employed by the Japanese government can be debated for centuries and we'll never come to an understanding but the point here is that the government at that time did not condone such coercive methods used by middle men nor the violence which happened in some cases.

    But to state that the evidence gathered by the AWF (which took almost a decade) and the review process which lead to the issuance of Kono statement is that of the McGraw Hill textbook narrative is false. This, in of itself, is the 'revision' of history that what people like you denounce against.

    Posted in: Japan asks U.S. publisher to change 'sex slave' reference in textbook

  • -6

    nigelboy

    That seems to be a different textbook than this article is about? The excerpt you posted previously about the textbook is question seems to be very similar in content to the the Kono statement, but my point was about not understanding CH3CHO's intentions.

    Yes. Quite different. "The recognition obtained through these series of studies was that it was not possible to confirm that women were “forcefully recruited.” was the official finding of the Japanese government even after the issuance of Kono Statement.

    to the McGraw Hill textbook version of

    "The Japanese army forcibly recruited, conscripted, and dragooned as many as two hundred thousand women age fourteen to twenty to serve in military brothels, called "comfort houses" or "consolation centers".

    You can't get any more of a contradiction than that.

    So who are these "mainstream historians" with their studies and papers with supporting evidence which I've been requesting for but nobody has yet to present them even after 250+ posts?

    Posters like CH3CHO or nigelboy meticulously go into details and seem concerned with "truth" about what happened, but what they actually do is obliterating responsibility for violence against women and smudging the victims once again.

    I do. If the issue is about violence against women, it's utterly absurd to simply narrow them to the issue of Japanese 'comfort women'.

    As I stated previously, this is in essence, the existence private brothels attached or operated close to the military. It's an operation that exists even today. The most common in the recent past are local operators who recruit local women with, in most cases, no regulation to how these women were recruited or the labor conditions in which they were subjected to, attach closely to the newly occupied military. In regards to Japan comfort women system in general, the women were recruited by operators in their territories and were granted passage to the battle area overseas attaching themselves to a military unit or command area where the operations were regulated by the Japanese military. In regards to Korea, the 'comfort women' system continued where it was not only state sanctioned but the government themselves took part in the direct recruitment, set up locations, and subsquently isolated those who were no longer serviceable.

    Posted in: Japan asks U.S. publisher to change 'sex slave' reference in textbook

  • -9

    nigelboy

    A welfare program for foreigners utilizing the tax money from Japanese citizens.

    Though I'm against austerity in general, I would cut this program in a heartbeat, no questions asked.

    Posted in: What do you think of the JET (Japan Exchange and Teaching) program?

  • -2

    nigelboy

    CH3CHO - I am thoroughly confused. You use the Kono statement (etc) as proof of Japanese compassion, yet you say that the things they apologise for are lies? It's like saying 'We are sorry, so now those things never happened"

    Back to square one.

    Kono statement nor the Japanese government did not apologize on the allegation of such textbook exerpts

    "The Japanese army forcibly recruited, conscripted, and dragooned as many as two hundred thousand women age fourteen to twenty to serve in military brothels, called "comfort houses" or "consolation centers".

    <www.mofa.go.jp/files/000042171.pdf>

    "...Meanwhile on the Japanese side, even after the announcement by Chief Cabinet Secretary Kato, the relevant ministries and agencies continuously investigated related documents and additionally conducted search and investigation of documents in the United States National Archives and Records Administration and in other locations. With these documents that were obtained in this way as a basis, it also began to analyze hearings of military-related parties and those responsible for managing the comfort stations, as well as testimonies collected by the Korean Council, and was able to practically finish compiling the report on the study results. The recognition obtained through these series of studies was that it was not possible to confirm that women were “forcefully recruited.”

    Posted in: Japan asks U.S. publisher to change 'sex slave' reference in textbook

  • 1

    nigelboy

    I'm not going to dignify condescending, insolent assumptions like that with a response.

    You haven't provided any evidence to counter them.

    What, in propaganda rags like that newspaper? Do you really think anyone takes all that 'heroic and selfless dedication to the Emperor' garbage seriously? If Volkischer Beobachter had reported that lots of French parents were determined for their children to become Waffen SS officers, would you take that as evidence that most French people supported Hitler?

    At that time, many Koreans did so. The number of applicants which is over 800,000 proves this.

    Given the animosity that exists today it doesn't look as if that support ran very deep, does it? Even the French and Germans get on better. Still, if posts like yours typify the attitudes of Japanese people that Koreans have had to put up with it's not too hard to see why.

    Perhaps what the post Korean teaching with their narrative contribute to this. There is a reason why despite calling themselves a democracy, their exists only a government issued textbook.

    Posted in: Abe says he will stick to past apologies in new WWII statement

  • 0

    nigelboy

    How many people." Not "Which organisations." There is a difference

    I wouldn't know the exact number but based on the LACK of such activities within the Korean peninsula and the lack of support of such organization, my answer to that which was already stated, is "very few".\

    I have better ways to spend my time than bother with tedious, insolent strawman arguments like this.

    In other words, you don't know this 'draconian law' but chose to just put it in there. My goodness.

    Based on the primary evidence presented, the Koreans at that time supported the Japanese government during the war.

    Posted in: Abe says he will stick to past apologies in new WWII statement

  • -2

    nigelboy

    What content? The flimsy, insubstantial content or the outright irrelevant content?

    You asked, "How many made conscious decisions to oppose the Japanese occupation and fight against the Japanese? And how did the Japanese deal with them?". I answered 'Provisional Government of Republic of Korea" and it's military branch Korean Liberation Army. And you are absolutely right. Their movement was insubstantial and irrelevant. Thank you.

    Why, is it your contention that there was no such law and that the media in Japan and Korea were free from government control?

    I never said they were 'free'. I asked you to cite this "draconian law" where such unfortunate suicides and dedications had to be placed in a newspaper. Please. Answer them.

    Posted in: Abe says he will stick to past apologies in new WWII statement

  • -3

    nigelboy

    So in other words, apart from an irrelevant observation about the sleazy methods used by one resistance organisation to raise funds, you have nothing to support your notion that hardly any Koreans opposed the Japanese or were harshly punished for it. So you won't mind if I dismiss what you say as fanciful hypothesis based on what you would prefer to believe. You could be right of course, but that's just coincidental.

    You asked so I answered. If you don't agree with the content, why not just respond with your version?

    As you can get in a country in wartime with draconian laws in place to control and censor the press, that is. In other words, not very. Well, if that is really the kind of thing you consider impartial, objective and reliable I'm honestly not sure what there is to say about it. If you found an article in the same newspaper saying the Emperor flew around Japan on a flying horse curing people of disease just by touching them, when he wasn't defeating the entire US Army single-handed, would you believe that too?

    Can you at least cite this "draconian law" where such reports of unfortunate suicides and dedications by certain people had to be placed in a newspaper article?

    Again, it's patently obvious that majority of Korean population were for the efforts of IJA so they should also start doing their apology tours and statements to other Asian nations.

    Posted in: Abe says he will stick to past apologies in new WWII statement

  • -5

  • -7

    nigelboy

    More important than the worldwide consensus, which you or I are not going to change, seems to me to be the fact that you don't agree with the Asian Women's Fund, which received support (tacit if not financial) from the Japanese government. Your opinion is also at odds with the Kono Statement, which your government (if you are a Japanese citizen) officials supports. With this in mind, perhaps your energy is misspent trying to dialogue with a non-Japanese audience when we are mostly educated differently, and mostly familiar with the work of the AWF and the official position of the government of Japan. It is hard for people to avoid labeling you as a 'denier' or 'revisionist' when you clearly want the official position to be revised. Maybe your efforts should be directed towards changing this official narrative (perhaps they already are).

    My views are simply mine alone based on the evidence I read and I don't get suckered into the often repeated "mainstream historian"(whoever they are) views which are simply copy/pasted and recycled by western sources over and over. And the AWF view and the Japanese government view are not even to close what's stated in the two paragraphs in the MCGraw Hill textbook so it's only natural that the latter complained.

    And let's be clear on the RAA. The primary reason it was closed is the self image U.S. had to maintain to the wives and girlfriends and the mothers back home (Susan Brownmiller). This policy still exist today which is a joke because if the servicemen overseas are forbidden from using such brothels, why on god's earth are the military doctors conducting periodic VD checks on the prostitute working at these brothels? Officially sanctioned or not. If you care about the rights of women under such profession, none of this matters. As Hashimoto said, the issue of exploitation of women should address all of them which includes the comfort women system incorporated by the Korean government to the U.S. Forces and the private brothels frequented by the soldiers all around the world.

    For what it's worth, I thank you back for it's been a while since I had an intelligent dialogue with someone with an opposing view.

    Posted in: Japan asks U.S. publisher to change 'sex slave' reference in textbook

  • -4

    nigelboy

    Sounds like a personal account to me, and yes, eyewitness accounts of victims are* all * considered primary sources. Of course people will lie or embellish, which I'm afraid to say you just seem to have done.

    Huh? It's a report based on interrogation of the captured unit and it's members including the comfort women at that time.
    Not some testimonies 50 years after the fact with politicized baggage already. For example, not a single testimony from the surviving Korean comfort women stated initially that they were abducted by the Japanese military.

    This seems to be a reasonable, if mild, assessment of life at comfort stations. It excludes the issue of how the women got there, but would that matter so much if they had all been well-treated and free to leave?

    I disagree for it overly exaggerates the hardships with play on words like "forced to render". It's a profession that was legal at that time and it still is in various parts of Europe.

    Again, I am confused about who you believe the comfort women were and how they were treated at comfort stations. Would you mind sharing your opinion with us?

    Private brothels attached or operated close to the military. It's an operation that exists even today. The most common in the recent past are local operators who recruit local women with no regulation to how these women were recruited or the labor conditions in which they were subjected to, attach closely to the newly occupied military. In regards to Japan comfort women system in general, the women were recruited by operators in their territories and were granted passage to the battle area overseas attaching themselves to a military unit or command area. Not even worth placing neither issues in textbooks,IMO.

    Posted in: Japan asks U.S. publisher to change 'sex slave' reference in textbook

  • -9

    nigelboy

    This personal testimony has been quoted often to support the position that there was no element of coercion in the comfort station system. Of course, there are other personal accounts that tell a different story.

    It's not a personal testimony. It's an exerpt from a report by U.S. Army right after the capture of a military unit. This is primary evidence.

    nigelboy and others, you people should present your distorted and cherry picked 'evidences' to all the mainstream world historians who have extensively studied this case and who all agree they were sex slaves of Japanese imperial army. And ask them why they don't get with the program that Japan is attempting to push.

    Hotmail,

    Why don't you do it for these often quoted "all the mainstream world historians"? Many posters here are asking for these ' hard evidence' from the works of these historians but not a single poster has provided them. What work(s) convinced you?

    Posted in: Japan asks U.S. publisher to change 'sex slave' reference in textbook

  • -10

    nigelboy

    But notice it only names the army, it does not take any stance on the actual governments (at that time) involvement which seems to be the part that is most protested by the current government.

    Yes. That's why I question that textbook passage based on primary evidence which includes reports as below.

    "A prisoner of war, a civilian brothel owner captured with his wife and twenty army prostitutes near Waingmaw on 10 August 1944, stated:

    "Prisoner of war, his wife and sister in law had made some money as restaurant keepes in Keijo, Korea but their trade declining, they looked for an opportunity to make more money and applied to Army Headquarters in Keijo for permission to take 'comfort girls' from Korea to Burma. According to prisoner of war, the suggetion originated from Army Headquarters and was passed to number of similar Japanese 'business man' in Korea.

    "Prisoner of war purchased 22 Korean girls, paying their families from 300 to 1000 yen according to the personality, looks and age of the girl. The 22 girls were of ages from 19 to 31. They became the sole property of prisoner of war and the Army made no profits from them..."

    or

    "...The interrogations further show that the health of these girls was good. They were well supplied with all types of contraceptives, and often soldiers would bring their own which had been supplied by the army. They were well trained in looking after both themselves and customers in the matter of hygiene. A regular Japanese Army doctor visited the houses once a week and any girl found diseased was given treatment, secluded, and eventually sent to a hospital..."

    or

    POW Maekawa, Yasuo captured 22 February 1944 stated

    "Prostitutes in Rabaul had been sent away several months before he left because of the danger from bombing.."

    Posted in: Japan asks U.S. publisher to change 'sex slave' reference in textbook

  • -5

    nigelboy

    The National Police Agency

    Metropolitan Police Department.

    Posted in: Haneda Airport strengthens security in response to France terror attack

  • -11

    nigelboy

    It seems difficult to see how slavery could be kosher with regards to POWs, but then so 'improbable' when it comes to women.

    The flaw in your argument is that is comfort women were POW when the evidence clearly suggests it's not.

    "...While in Burma they amused themselves by participating in sports events with both officers and men, and attended picnics, entertainments, and social dinners. They had a phonograph and in the towns they were allowed to go shopping..."

    "Every comfort girl' was employed on the following contract conditions. She received fifty percent of her own gross takings and was provided with free passage, free food and free medical treatment.."

    http://www.awf.or.jp/pdf/0051_5.pdf

    My goodness, revisionists and deniers hardly get enough sleep do they. Denialboy up at 4:20 , tut tut .

    Was this necessary? Concept of different 'time zone' mean anything to you?

    Posted in: Japan asks U.S. publisher to change 'sex slave' reference in textbook

  • -4

    nigelboy

    Lets see the textbook and the passage.

    Then we can all agree (or decide) whether or not it is appropriate.

    Anyone got any connections?

    Comfort Women Tradition & Encounters:A Global Perspective on the Past, McGraw-Hill, 2011, p.853.

    "Women's experiences in war were not always ennobling or empowering. The Japanese army forcibly recruited, conscripted, and dragooned as many as two hundred thousand women age fourteen to twenty to serve in military brothels, called "comfort houses" or "consolation centers". The army presented the women to the troops as a gift from the emperor, and the women came from Japanese colonies such as Korea, Taiwan, and Manchuria and from occupied territories in the Philippines and elsewhere in southeast Asia. The majority of the women came from Korea and China.

    Once forced into this imperial prostitution service, the "comfort women" catered to between twenty and thirty men each day. Stationed in war zones, the women often confronted the same risks as soldiers, and many became casualties of war. Others were killed by Japanese soldiers, especially if they tried to escape or contracted venereal diseases. At the end of the war, soldiers massacred large numbers of comfort women to cover up the operation. The impetus behind the establishment of comfort houses for Japanese soldiers came from the horrors of Nanjing, where the mass rape of Chinese women had taken place. In trying to avoid such atrocities, the Japanese army created another horror of war. Comfort women who survived the war experienced deep shame and hid their past or faced shunning by their families. They found little comfort or peace after the war."

    Posted in: Japan asks U.S. publisher to change 'sex slave' reference in textbook

  • -5

    nigelboy

    So, let's hear the police finally start using their ability to charge minors as adults

    Smith. The police "charges" individual based on the criminal code, whether that be minors or adults.

    Posted in: YouTube prankster on the run after police issue arrest warrant

  • -12

    nigelboy

    Nope. The international treaties Japan signed onto were not covered by the 1965 treaty - which let's be honest if it was offered today it would be rejected by the South Korean people. The military dictatorship which ruled South Korea at the time accepted it out of expedience. If you read the link I posted previously this is made clear.

    What a lame response. Why on god's earth would Japan offer what will be a 'supplemental' deal on top of the one received in 1965? And don't be so quick to judge that SK would reject it considering the fact that it's what they are seeking which is 'compensation'.

    Your position that the 1965 is invalid due to the nature of the 1965 government reasoning resembles that of mob like extortion tactic. But the again, that's essentially what the South Korean government has been doing for the past couple of the decades or so.

    Posted in: Japan asks U.S. publisher to change 'sex slave' reference in textbook

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